Why do you reject authority?

[David H.]

Your comment didn't "irk" me.....It was an illogical comment soooo I addressed it!!

Who is controlling your mind?? OR to ask it another way: what denomination do you belong to?

The comment you responded to was not directed at you, but another in the comment stream.

I am A Christian, the Holy Ghost is controlling my mind. I have fully submitted myself to God And to do the Will of God.

 

[Brakelite]

What a lying load of manure . .

I am in the Knights of Columbus - and one of the MAIN tenets of the K of C is Patriotism. Charity, Unity, FraternIty and Patriotism are the principles of the K of C. As for your charge that the Church has always "hated" the constitution - this is omplete nonsense as well. Not ONLY did I learn about the Constitution in a Catholic school - TWO of the signers of this documemt were Catholics - Daniel Carroll and Thomas Fitzsimmons.

THIS is wjy I refer to people like YOU as "Anti-Catholics". NOT because you simpoy "disagree" with the Church - but because you have to resort to LYING to make your points. In cse you forgot - God HATES dishonesty . . .
Exod. 20:16
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

Rev. 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters,
and ALL LIARS, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

I expected nothing less than this from you BoL. Your "double-speak" on this forum, along with the same tactic by others here and Catholicism in general when it speaks of "religious liberty", justification by faith "alone", and so many other issues which she pretends to be mild mannered and benevolent, is in fact a mere subterfuge to cover her goals for global hegemony. The Constitution guarantees the separation of church and state, and freedom to follow one's own conscientious scruples and beliefs, but Catholicism holds to said separation and freedom in a very different light to that of the USSC and to Protestants in general.
That Carroll signed it at a time when Catholicism was being actively restrained because of its persecuting legacy in Europe should come as no surprise. It guaranteed Catholic freedom. What we aren't told is that Catholic interpretation of religious liberty doesn't allow for freedom for anyone else., if and when Catholics have control. Which ought to concern everyone when you have a Catholic dominated USSC.
That Daniel Carroll's younger brother founded the Jesuit Georgetown University ought to bring balance to your suggestion of general Catholic support for the constitution. The Jesuits of all quasi military and secret society groups despise any concept of freedom of religion. Freedom for Catholicism, sure, but the Vatican is still a leopard and her spots are flaring up in anticipation of taking control over American religion and instilling Catholic pagan unbiblical dogma into American society. Just as you and your friends are attempting to do here on this forum.
As to your membership credentials to Knights of Columbus, explains everything. Your determination to counter "anti-Catholic" lies, using anti-Protestant lies, and my suspicions of old of your Jesuit connections...all answered.

 

[Brakelite]

Oh goodness backlit....another anti-Catholic lie....

Google Praedicate Evangelium instead of listening to the men who are lying to you!!!

I suspect you won't apologize either.....

The current Pope then is the identity of the man who was lying to me. “You must not behave like human business that try to attract more people,” Pope Francis said , “To use a technical word: you must not proselytize. It is not Christian to proselytize.”
The same bloke said on another occasion, that “a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ” must be avoided at all costs.
“Having a personal relationship with Jesus is dangerous and very harmful,”
Now don't you dare suggest I'm lying. Your own Pope said these things, and you are repeating some of them yourself in these very threads.

 

[Brakelite]

Thank you...You are right... @Backlit was the liar who needs to apologize.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[Brakelite]

Sooooo I should surrender to Protestant authority???

Never. Surrender to Jesus Christ.

Which Protestant teaching should I adhere to?

All of them...if they agree with scripture. If they don't agree with scripture, cast them aside.

and one of the MAIN tenets of the K of C is Patriotism.

Good for them. Tell me, what authority takes precedence? That of the constitution of the United States, or the councils of the Catholic Church when they contradict the constitution? I speak specifically of freedom of conscience. Which I am sure you would agree with right? For you anyway, but would you agree with it for me if I were living in a Catholic country? If so, you would be out of step with Trent would you not? So when you speak so glowingly of patriotism, who are your patriotic loyalties to ultimately?

 

[Paul Christensen]

If you don't think Paul had the authority to teach what Christ taught I am concerned for your ability to interpret Scripture.

I think that my ability to interpret Scripture is as good as anyone. Frankly, I don't care for or about anyone who purports to have the definitive interpretation that they think that comes from God directly to them, as if God sees them as someone special and different from the common herd.

 

[Taken]

Why do you reject authority?
OP ^

Authority is an ODD concept.

In the BIG Picture..God IS the Creator of All Things, including the Topic, mankind.
Expressly Because God CREATED mankind, God has Authority over mankind. (Regardless if a man believes in God or not)

Then there IS... "GRANTED" Authority.
Granted Authority is ... Permissive Authority "GIVEN" Another.

It can be Authority...Granted (taken for granted, by The Lord, by men )...(that God granted them Authority, without men's input).

For Example...God the Heavenly Father Granted the Son Authority over certain things ON EARTH.

For Example...God Granted (Husband and Wife) Authority over their OFF-Spring, during the Time the Off-spring Abides in their Household.

God also Grants Mankind Options TO Choose (Freewill), what "THING" Will Have Authority OVER that man. (and to what EXTENT (how much or how little), The "Thing" CAN have Authority Over that man.

Example...Exodus...God offered Israelites a WAY to exit Bondage, (Forced Authority) of Egyptians.

The CAVEAT, for the Hebrews release from Egyptian Bondage, Was each of their Word of Willingness to Give God Complete Authority Over them, individually and collectively.

They collectively and individually Responded THEY Would DO all that God Said...
They willingly chose, willingly gave their word, God could have complete Authority over them.

Every man has the Exact Same Option...to willingly Give the Lord God Almighty Complete Authority Over them.
Direct, Guide, Punish, Bless, Keep them Forever Wholly...body, soul, spirit.

Every man has the Option...to Reject Gods Authority to Direct and Guide them. Such a Rejection for God to Have "that" Authority over a man "IS" Accepted by God, as Authority NOT given God, by that man.
(God Does NOT force His direction and guidance ON such a man.)

Your post is more toward ... questioning Authority of men (you presume) God has granted Authority To men for Authority OVER men, and all men (Seeminlgy Must Accept) that Authority.

The ONLY Authority God Granted Authority OVER men, Was The Lord. And men individual men Can Accept or Reject even the Lords Authority. (Not forced Authority).

Men, thereafter Appoint other men "Authority"...typically with a ceremony, before witnesses...
The man "Appointed" ... Reveals his Acceptance of "an Authoritative Position"...
During the ceremony...of the Apointer..ANNOINTING with Oil...the Appointed.

The man receiving the ANNOINTING Oil...will thereafter...have particular Authority OVER...
WHO?
Any INDIVIDUAL who Agrees that man CAN have particular Authority OVER Him.

And WHAT particular Authority Does the Granted man HAVE OVER other men?

In particular...each Church has its own compilation, writings, bylaws, rules, doctrine....(whatever they decide to call the list...)... of What precise Authority that Appointed man has Over other an other willing man.

I presume in "some" churches...the "list" is simplified for children, who are not yet able to cognitively understand All the particulars...to the simplicity;
That "Annointed man Has Authority OVER you," Thus: "Believe ALL he says and DO ALL he says".

•THAT ^ HAS WIDELY been PROVEN To BE A BIG Problem...IN Churches, IN Schools, IN Daycares, etc.

Not everyone Appointed BY MEN, With Granted AUTHORITY over others...IS an UPSTANDING person, Speaking or Acting, According to GODS "List" of guidelines and direction.

• Bottom line... men have the Express Option to subject themselves to another man's Appointed Authority....OR NOT.

•You wonder WHY men do not "Automatically" subject themselves to the Authority of Other men?

Inanutshell...

• 1) It is an individuals OPTION
• 2) The REASON is the individuals REASONS, which is as endless as Individuals themselves.
...
They don't believe what the Authority man believes.
They don't like the Authority man's delivery, manner.
They have witnessed the Authority man's Ill behavior,
They don't like the Authority man's Looks, voice, gestures, space invading, bad breath, car, house, friends, relatives, hair, things he drinks, his body odor, entertainment he enjoys, flirting, cunningness, his showing of favoritism....blah, blah, blah.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I’m not claiming autonomy or any isolated denomination, I’m governed by The Christ.

So, you don't attend a church regularly?

 

[BreadOfLife]

you move on the chequer board to any square that you perceive suits your purpose. Integrity becomes an academic exercise with no semblance to its reality.

Which means absolutely nothing other than, "I can't argue with that."

 

[BreadOfLife]

I expected nothing less than this from you BoL. Your "double-speak" on this forum, along with the same tactic by others here and Catholicism in general when it speaks of "religious liberty", justification by faith "alone", and so many other issues which she pretends to be mild mannered and benevolent, is in fact a mere subterfuge to cover her goals for global hegemony. The Constitution guarantees the separation of church and state, and freedom to follow one's own conscientious scruples and beliefs, but Catholicism holds to said separation and freedom in a very different light to that of the USSC and to Protestants in general.
That Carroll signed it at a time when Catholicism was being actively restrained because of its persecuting legacy in Europe should come as no surprise. It guaranteed Catholic freedom. What we aren't told is that Catholic interpretation of religious liberty doesn't allow for freedom for anyone else., if and when Catholics have control. Which ought to concern everyone when you have a Catholic dominated USSC.
That Daniel Carroll's younger brother founded the Jesuit Georgetown University ought to bring balance to your suggestion of general Catholic support for the constitution. The Jesuits of all quasi military and secret society groups despise any concept of freedom of religion. Freedom for Catholicism, sure, but the Vatican is still a leopard and her spots are flaring up in anticipation of taking control over American religion and instilling Catholic pagan unbiblical dogma into American society. Just as you and your friends are attempting to do here on this forum.
As to your membership credentials to Knights of Columbus, explains everything. Your determination to counter "anti-Catholic" lies, using anti-Protestant lies, and my suspicions of old of your Jesuit connections...all answered.

Spoken like yet another ignorant person who reads too many Dan Brown novels and has picked up on his Jesuit-phobia.
"Quasi military", indeed . . .

Pius XI's encyclicals regarding religious freedom were aimed at CATHOLICS, like ALL Papal Encyclicals and NOT at the general public.

Finally - your asinine indictment of the Knights of Columbus, which is essentially a men's fraternal service/charity organizaion, is almost comical - if not so ridiculously stupid. I'm the Pro-Life Chairman in our council - yeah, REAL dangerous . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Good for them. Tell me, what authority takes precedence? That of the constitution of the United States, or the councils of the Catholic Church when they contradict the constitution? I speak specifically of freedom of conscience. Which I am sure you would agree with right? For you anyway, but would you agree with it for me if I were living in a Catholic country? If so, you would be out of step with Trent would you not? So when you speak so glowingly of patriotism, who are your patriotic loyalties to ultimately?

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that I can't be patriotic towards my country.
The idea that you keep repeating this stupidity is beyond me.

The only thing I am bound by is good and evil - morality.
If somnething is evil, like abortion, I cannot suppport it - and neither should YOU.

 

[BreadOfLife]

thank you BoL

It cracks me up how MOST of you anti-Catholics are afraid to tell us where you go to church.
Why the fear? Are you afraid that I'm going to expose your sect for its false teachings??

 

[Waiting on him]

So, you don't attend a church regularly?

Heck no! I can’t stomach all the right fighting.

 

[Truther]

Well never being a big drinker, did start on the coffee, than one day a stopped and , yep withdrawals, that was when i discovered it is a drug. Also noted that if you tried to avoid it, you always went and go teh drink with the most caffeine. Still have one from time to time.

That's good you cut back on it. The less coffee the better for some. I don't have much stress in life, or I would cut back too.

 

[Addy]

That's good you cut back on it. The less coffee the better for some. I don't have much stress in life, or I would cut back too.

I'm off for COFFEE.... LOL.... But wanted to say hello and Happy Monday.... a NEW week for the continuation of AS the FORUM TURNS.

 

[Truther]

I'm off for COFFEE.... LOL.... But wanted to say hello and Happy Monday.... a NEW week for the continuation of AS the FORUM TURNS.

Amen, you too. It is good to be alive today on God's earth!

 

[DPMartin]

what you're actually insisting on Marymog is that folk dance to the tune of the RCC hierarchy. History tells us that sad story of domination and subjugation by that system. Anyone who is familiar with its history has plenty of reasons to reject the RCC's right to authority......but of course if you want to submit you can do it when and wherever you like.

well said.

 

[DPMartin]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

it seems you're trying to use submission to national laws and authorities that yes, God has ordained and say one should do the same in the case of the RCC. if you want to use RCC services then I guess you should submit to their criteria, if you want to live in Italy then you should submit to the laws and authorities in Italy even if you are from another country. its as simple as that. the church isn't supposed to be a threat to laws and authorities in the world. there's no call from God to take out a sword of Truth a slay evil at every turn, unless God has given you the authority in the world to act on such. just because the RCC at one time use to rule what was left of the Roman Empire judging criminal and civil matters doesn't mean God has give that same authority in the world to the RCC today.

 

[Truther]

Spoken like yet another ignorant person who reads too many Dan Brown novels and has picked up on his Jesuit-phobia.
"Quasi military", indeed . . .

Pius XI's encyclicals regarding religious freedom were aimed at CATHOLICS, like ALL Papal Encyclicals and NOT at the general public.

Finally - your asinine indictment of the Knights of Columbus, which is essentially a men's fraternal service/charity organizaion, is almost comical - if not so ridiculously stupid. I'm the Pro-Life Chairman in our council - yeah, REAL dangerous . . .

Some RCC organizations have there origins in attempting to end the reformation.

They only succeeded in helping to invent modern versions via Westcott/Hort, who were RCC plants.

 

[Brakelite]

Spoken like yet another ignorant person who reads too many Dan Brown novels and has picked up on his Jesuit-phobia.
"Quasi military", indeed . . .

Pius XI's encyclicals regarding religious freedom were aimed at CATHOLICS, like ALL Papal Encyclicals and NOT at the general public.

Finally - your asinine indictment of the Knights of Columbus, which is essentially a men's fraternal service/charity organizaion, is almost comical - if not so ridiculously stupid. I'm the Pro-Life Chairman in our council - yeah, REAL dangerous . . .

And the manner in which you share your love to those here who disagree with your theology is a credit to your organisation I'm sure.

But all that isn't what the discussion is all about is it. It's about the Catholic Church understanding and practise of religious liberty. Your asinine remark that Puis IX was speaking only in context to Catholics was, well, asinine. Let me quote him again...
The absurd and erroneous doctrines or ravings in defense of liberty of conscience are a most pestilential error...a pest, of all others, most to be dreaded in a state.
So, which Catholic state has these absurd and erroneous doctrines or ravings? I know of only one Catholic state. And Pius was it's head of state. Was he referring to his own dogmas by any chance?