Why I believe in the rapture.

[Waiting on him]

Mark 13:3,14 KJV
[3] And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, [14] But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Jesus tells His disciples privately, they will see the abomination of desolation. Let this be your benchmark, then proceed from there.

 

[Waiting on him]

There’s no getting around it, no matter how many want to call Him a liar and false prophet.

 

[Waiting on him]

I do believe this scripture had you in mind:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP together with them IN THE CLOUDS , to MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Verse 18, there’s your so-called wishful thinking.

The silly thing is, Paul uses all these personal pronouns in your quote above in a letter addressed to first century Theselonica, and you believe he addressed me and you. How foolish is that?

 

[Waiting on him]

Everyone always stating context context,,,,,, context. What about reality?

 

[Waiting on him]

Talk is cheap. Do some backing up of talk with scriptures, please.

Shalom

If your not aware that you’ve resurrected from death to life, I could quote the entire book and it would not make any difference.

 

[Naomi25]

1 John 3:14 KJV
[14] We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
He was speaking of those in that age that were spiritually dead.

Yes…that was my point. Salvation in Christ moves people from being spiritually dead, to spiritually alive.

 

[Naomi25]

Job 20:11 KJV
[11] His bones are full of the sin of his youth, which shall lie down with him in the dust.
Genesis 3:19 KJV
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

You do realise that this is talking about death. As in, physical death the first time.
When Taken said that “physical bodies of the just and unjust RETURN” to the earth, I took the ‘return’ to assume he was speaking post resurrection. As in, post the verses that speak of these ‘just and unjust’ dead being raised. Hence the ‘return’.
And no…I’m not familiar with any verses that speak of a ‘return’ to the earth once they have left it for the resurrection. Are you?
I mean…everyone knows they’ll greet it first time around. That’s just plain obvious. But it was not the matter at hand.

 

[Naomi25]

Everyone always stating context context,,,,,, context. What about reality?

They should not be mutually exclusive. Indeed, they ought to co-exist if you’re doing it right.

 

[Waiting on him]

They should not be mutually exclusive. Indeed, they ought to co-exist if you’re doing it right.

What do you make of the fact that Jesus in the gospel of Mark and Matthew tells His disciples in a private conversation between them that they will see the AOD spoken of in Daniel?

 

[Truth7t7]

I believe in the 1 Thess 4 "rapture" where "we, {the saints}, who are still alive" will be wished away up to the clouds to greet Christ in the air as His second advent unfolds to judge both the wicked and the righteous. However, since I will have been dead for at least 1,000 years, then the actual part of 1 Thess 4 I believe in is this: -

1 Thess 4:13-18: - 13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.​

NKJV​

This is the primary passage of scripture that is quoted to support the "rapture" theory but the transliteral word used in the Greek text is "
harpagēsometha," which has the translated meaning given to it of "shall be caught up" with them that are dead in Christ.

As such, Truth7t7, is correct in his post above in his comments on 1 Cor 15:23-24 quoted below: -

1 Cor 15:20-28: - 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the first fruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.​

NKJV​

Now the question is, when will Christ be given dominion and a kingdom over all of the people of the earth and how will Christ then administer his Dominion over all of the earth.

Daniel 7:13-14 gives us a clue. Christ's dominion is that all of the people on the earth should serve Him, but we know from scripture that this will not be so, because Christ has already told us that Satan will have his "Good and faithful servants," opposing Christ while Satan is imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years in the vain hope that He, Satan, can after the 1,000 years of imprisonment will then be able to reign over all of the peoples who he has not killed, because they would not bow down to worship him. After Satan's imprisonment for 1,000 years he and his fellow fallen wicked angels, and the kings of the earth will be released for a little while to usurp Christ's dominion over the peoples of the earth.

People's simple literal understanding of the scriptures, often leads to a wrong understanding because of the wrong spirit within them.

Shalom

PS: - If anyone is able to demonstrate that the above post is in error then I will happily concede that I am wrong.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation?

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ?

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

I believe in the 1 Thess 4 "rapture" where "we, {the saints}, who are still alive" will be wished away up to the clouds to greet Christ in the air as His second advent unfolds to judge both the wicked and the righteous. However, since I will have been dead for at least 1,000 years, then the actual part of 1 Thess 4 I believe in is this: -

1 Thess 4:13-18: - 13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.​

NKJV​

This is the primary passage of scripture that is quoted to support the "rapture" theory but the transliteral word used in the Greek text is "
harpagēsometha," which has the translated meaning given to it of "shall be caught up" with them that are dead in Christ.

As such, Truth7t7, is correct in his post above in his comments on 1 Cor 15:23-24 quoted below: -

1 Cor 15:20-28: - 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the first fruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.​

NKJV​

Now the question is, when will Christ be given dominion and a kingdom over all of the people of the earth and how will Christ then administer his Dominion over all of the earth.

Daniel 7:13-14 gives us a clue. Christ's dominion is that all of the people on the earth should serve Him, but we know from scripture that this will not be so, because Christ has already told us that Satan will have his "Good and faithful servants," opposing Christ while Satan is imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years in the vain hope that He, Satan, can after the 1,000 years of imprisonment will then be able to reign over all of the peoples who he has not killed, because they would not bow down to worship him. After Satan's imprisonment for 1,000 years he and his fellow fallen wicked angels, and the kings of the earth will be released for a little while to usurp Christ's dominion over the peoples of the earth.

People's simple literal understanding of the scriptures, often leads to a wrong understanding because of the wrong spirit within them.

Shalom

PS: - If anyone is able to demonstrate that the above post is in error then I will happily concede that I am wrong.

Satan Is Currently Bound For 1,000 Years Explained?

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Marty fox]

The silly thing is, Paul uses all these personal pronouns in your quote above in a letter addressed to first century Theselonica, and you believe he addressed me and you. How foolish is that?

Amen how very true

 

[Jay Ross]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation?

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ?

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

Truth7t7, if you are trying to demonstrate that I am in error, then your comprehension of what I have posted is questionable. In my initial post in this thread, I said that I believed the 1 Thess 4:13-18 passage, but not in the manner of some on this forum. I do not believe that the 1 Thess 4:13-18 passage is describing an imminent event that will occur in our near future, but rather that this passage is referring to a distant future event that will occur in just over 1,000 years from now.

In what I posted, I suggested that the dominion and kingdom that Christ will be given is in our near future, but I have not read in the scriptures how Christ will administer His dominion and kingdom which He is to receive in our near future that convinces me that He will do so from the face of the earth which many members of this forum are suggesting and that, as well, they will be standing shoulder to shoulder with Christ doing so during this supposed reign of Christ on the face of the earth.

Shalom

 

[Truth7t7]

Truth7t7, if you are trying to demonstrate that I am in error, then your comprehension of what I have posted is questionable. In my initial post in this thread, I said that I believed the 1 Thess 4:13-18 passage, but not in the manner of some on this forum. I do not believe that the 1 Thess 4:13-18 passage is describing an imminent event that will occur in our near future, but rather that this passage is referring to a distant future event that will occur in just over 1,000 years from now.

In what I posted, I suggested that the dominion and kingdom that Christ will be given is in our near future, but I have not read in the scriptures how Christ will administer His dominion and kingdom which He is to receive in our near future that convinces me that He will do so from the face of the earth which many members of this forum are suggesting and that, as well, they will be standing shoulder to shoulder with Christ doing so during this supposed reign of Christ on the face of the earth.

Shalom

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[rockytopva]

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelations 16:15
And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:36-40

Christ comes as a thief... Unannounced! Jesus Christ could come today! Which is why I also believe in a rapture.

 

[David H.]

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelations 16:15
And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:36-40

Christ comes as a thief... Unannounced! Jesus Christ could come today! Which is why I also believe in a rapture.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (1 Thessalonians 5:4)

 

[rockytopva]

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (1 Thessalonians 5:4)

Meaning if the rapture happened in their time they would have nothing to worry about.

 

[David H.]

The silly thing is, Paul uses all these personal pronouns in your quote above in a letter addressed to first century Theselonica, and you believe he addressed me and you. How foolish is that?

Yes and Paul uses those pronouns as do all the apostles in describing promises made to all saints.... Like asked you before and you never responded does that mean the gospel of salvation only applies to those who were alive at the time the epistle were written? Do see how your logic leads to the absurd.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (John 17:20-21) By request of Jesus all those words apply to all generations of believers who believe the testimony of Jesus and the Apostles. All those promises apply to all of us.

 

[David H.]

Meaning if the rapture happened in their time they would have nothing to worry about.

Meaning that if they watched it would not come as a thief upon them nor us nor any who have their Spiritual eyes opened. Are you a 70ad abomination person?

 

[rockytopva]

Meaning that if they watched it would not come as a thief upon them nor us nor any who have their Spiritual eyes opened. Are you a 70ad abomination person?

If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. " - Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

And to bring back the thief statement and that we don’t really know Isaac Newton goes on to say….

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton