Will you be caught up in the rapture or left-behind??

[Jay Ross]

This decision is above my pay grade. It is only dependant on my relationship with God and whether or not I am alive at the time of Christ's second coming or not, when the saints, that are alive at that time, will rise up to meet Christ and the resurrected Saints who are with Christ.

It is my understanding that the so termed "Rapture," i.e., the rising up to meet Christ as he comes to judge the world, is a distant future event and in fact, if I find favour with God/Christ, I will be one of the resurrected Saint in the air with Christ when He comes for His second advent.

 

[MetalGrand]

I don't understand how Christ's second coming is in the distant future. With the rise of transhumanism, man will be their own god. This is in the very near future. I believe God will put an end to it quickly, possibly before it even starts.

 

[Timtofly]

We are told specifically by our LORD Jesus Christ not to look for the 'Rapture'.

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."

the LORD knows each one who belongs to HIM and HE will never leave anyone of HIS behind.

"and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus our Deliverer from the wrath to come."
1 Thess 1:10

Pretty sure the rapture is upward. When you get pulled up into the air suddenly, that is not another human telling you he just found Christ somewhere. That is God moving you.

The rapture is not another human telling you they found Jesus. The rapture is God moving you from point a to point b, faster than you can blink your eye.

That verse is not telling you about a rapture. That verse is telling you not to listen to quacks telling you there is no rapture. Obviously they are claiming Christ already came and you can find Him some place on earth. For one, it will be an angel that takes you to Christ if you missed the rapture. They are not going to tell you where to find Christ. They will take you directly and personally to Jesus as King sitting on His throne in Jerusalem.

Not many today even fit these verses. Now, they tell you Jesus is coming post tribulation. But the very same thing. They are telling you where and when Christ will be on earth. Jesus said don't listen to them. No man knows when the Second Coming will happen, nor the rapture as they both happen at the same time. But when it comes to pointing out in Scripture when it happens, it is the 6th Seal.

 

[David in NJ]

Pretty sure the rapture is upward. When you get pulled up into the air suddenly, that is not another human telling you he just found Christ somewhere. That is God moving you.

The rapture is not another human telling you they found Jesus. The rapture is God moving you from point a to point b, faster than you can blink your eye.

That verse is not telling you about a rapture. That verse is telling you not to listen to quacks telling you there is no rapture. Obviously they are claiming Christ already came and you can find Him some place on earth. For one, it will be an angel that takes you to Christ if you missed the rapture. They are not going to tell you where to find Christ. They will take you directly and personally to Jesus as King sitting on His throne in Jerusalem.

Not many today even fit these verses. Now, they tell you Jesus is coming post tribulation. But the very same thing. They are telling you where and when Christ will be on earth. Jesus said don't listen to them. No man knows when the Second Coming will happen, nor the rapture as they both happen at the same time. But when it comes to pointing out in Scripture when it happens, it is the 6th Seal.

JESUS is warning us of the falsehood of pre-trib rapture.

When the Antichrist and his Mark is revealed, those who placed their trust in men/pre-trib rapture, will be susceptable to false reports of raptures occurring.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

Claiming the rapture and Second Coming is post tribulation, seems a great falling away and apostasy from Scripture. Satan always uses God's Word to deceieve people. The very first temptation inluded: Yea, hath God said, "Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden"?

Satan can quote Scripture. Any one can quote Scripture. It is the resulted reasoning and interpretation that get most into trouble.

Should we know that Satan is real, and not some fictional character? Has Satan been around deceiving humanity for thousands of years. This falling away keeps happening over and over again.

The church at Rome started out great, even during persecution. Then fell away. The Reformation started out with revival fire, yet Europe fell away. Even in America, today's ivy league colleges were once the bastions of the Gospel, are now fallen away. Falling away is an ongoing process since Paul wrote those words. They have been fulfilled over and over again in the last 1900 years.

Now falling away is tied to Jacob's trouble. Jacob's trouble is still future and will not happen over and over again. But falling away has already happened many times.

 

[Timtofly]

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

What part of AFTER I'm I missing ?

You are missing "of those days" part. The Second Coming is after general every day tribulation. The tribulation of those days. This tribulation is directed at the church, also called persecution. The flesh and the world are used to try the church. That is the tribulation of those days.

Jacob's trouble is the greatest tribulation period known to mankind. It is the final harvest. Jesus and the angels will be on earth during that period. Matthew 13 and Matthew 25 explain the trouble after the Second Coming.

 

[Timtofly]

JESUS is warning us of the falsehood of pre-trib rapture.

When the Antichrist and his Mark is revealed, those who placed their trust in men/pre-trib rapture, will be susceptable to false reports of raptures occurring.

That is philosophical human reasoning. It is an assumption.

When the Second Coming and rapture happens it will be the real thing, not a false report. The false report back in the day was to say it already took place.


No pre-trib is telling you the Second Coming and rapture already happened.


That will be left to the post trib guys who will say that it did, and that would be true. However the deception is that it will be OK, as that will be a false hope, as Jesus will already be sitting on the throne in Jerusalem at that point. The deception is trying to get every one to think Jesus is every where on earth, but the real King on the throne.

A lot of posters already deny that Jesus and the angels will be on the earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. Nothing will change in their mind about that point even when the angels and Jesus as King are on the earth. If they deny it now, they will keep denying after it already happened. Unless they are raptured, then they won't be on earth to deny that point. God will have already changed their perspective at that point. They won't even know they missed out on being incorrect in their teachings.

There is literally no Scripture nor teaching declaring a post Second Coming rapture years after the Second Coming. The whole issue is that many refuse to see that Jesus and the angels are on the earth during Jacob's trouble. Even pre-trib rapture people will deny the Second Coming happens before the Trumpets and Thunders. They are just as wrong as post trib posters.

The rapture and Second Coming happen at the same time. Neither happen after those 42 months of AoD.

Many people will be deceieved after the Second Coming. That is the point. Amil don't even think people will be around after the Second Coming. Being deceieved is what happens when the real thing is happening but no one accepts the real thing but only deception. Jesus was the Messiah for 3.5 years and many were deceived and even followed after false Messiahs during those 3.5 years. That time they even killed Jesus. The difference after the Second Coming is that Jesus will be literally removing humans from the earth, instead of being killed.

You cannot just look at a few verses. You have to see the whole point of the Second Coming.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Hey!!! Those that choose to argue and fight against the rapture will most likely get to stay BEHIND here and try to live under anti-Christ rule but Jesus says we are to pray that we be counted worthy to escape as we born-again believersare not appointed for wrath. PTL.

I don't believe you are using these Scriptures properly. Those who are taken and those who are left behind refer to the Jews who were under judgment form God during the Roman invasion of 70 AD. Some were "taken away" to be slaves. Others were left behind to work the fields for the Romans.

If you're going to argue from Scriptures, you have to use them properly, and to interpret them properly. There is no Pretrib Rapture whatsoever in the Olivet Discourse, which refers to those "left behind."

 

[The Light]

Think I'm going to stay and overcome by the blood .

Not a wise choice. Think I'm going to leave because I'm going to watch and be ready as instructed.

The rapture doctrine is a setup for deception .

When the rapture occurs the deception is already in place. If you are hanging around don't be deceived by the alien holograms and all the fake news stories from all over the world. That's the deception

Aint nobody coming out the grave , those who have died come back with Him

Fact. The dead in Christ rise first. They will return back with Him when He comes for the alive that remain. The time is very, very, very short.

 

[The Light]

I don't believe you are using these Scriptures properly. Those who are taken and those who are left behind refer to the Jews who were under judgment form God during the Roman invasion of 70 AD. Some were "taken away" to be slaves. Others were left behind to work the fields for the Romans.

If you're going to argue from Scriptures, you have to use them properly, and to interpret them properly. There is no Pretrib Rapture whatsoever in the Olivet Discourse, which refers to those "left behind."

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and stand before the son of man.

I believe the written Word that says we can escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the son of man.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus tells us to pray that we will be counted worthy to escape for we born-again believers are not appointed to wrath!!!

We are given the escape right now - Today = 1 Corinthians 10:12-13

"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."

This is exactly what our LORD says in His Gospel = Luke ch23

"But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

 

[David in NJ]

Many left behind on rapture day will see their error. and repent, confess and become believers. but then they put try to live under anti-christ rule.

Your statement is 'false doctrine' , cannot be found in scripture and is another lie that came from the depths of the first lie = pre-trib.


Just as there is no pre-trib rapture scriptures, so also are there no 'left-behind saints' scriptures.

$1,000 if you find either one in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[David in NJ]

Not a wise choice. Think I'm going to leave because I'm going to watch and be ready as instructed.

When the rapture occurs the deception is already in place. If you are hanging around don't be deceived by the alien holograms and all the fake news stories from all over the world. That's the deception


Fact. The dead in Christ rise first. They will return back with Him when He comes for the alive that remain. The time is very, very, very short.

@The Light claims = "Fact. The dead in Christ rise first. They will return back with Him when He comes for the alive that remain. The time is very, very, very short."

This another lie that 'pre-trib' has given birth to.

That Big Lie 'pre-trib rapture' just keeps on making more lies.

@The Light must bring forth from scripture where the LORD leaves behind His Saints in order to free himself from Judgment.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and stand before the son of man.

I believe the written Word that says we can escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the son of man.

Obviously, you and I are wanting to serve God today and to prevail until our last breath, and ultimately, to "stand before the Son of Man." What does that have to do with establishing a Pretrib Rapture? We serve God today because we don't want to be judged in eternity, right? That does not even establish an eschatological context--just a context by which our actions today lead to judgment tomorrow.

But if you're talking about escaping wrath, the thing we're escaping from is Eternal Judgment--not trouble on earth. I already established that we were warned by Jesus that his disciples would face many difficulties in this world, and would not be able to escape them when they happen. In case you've forgotten,

John 17.15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

In case you think that means we can escape persecution by antichrists, let me remind you,

John 15.18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.

Certainly there are times when the saints are spared some of the suffering imposed upon us by this world. The believers in Jesus' generation were given to escape the onslaught brought by the Romans in 70 AD. But still, those same saints suffered deprivation as Jews on the run, and had to continue to suffer the abuses of the world. We shouldn't use Scriptures to claim escape in the last days, during the reign of Antichrist, when the Apostle John had said antichrists were already present,

1 John 2.18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

About the only argument Pretribbers have is the claim that Eternal Judgment begins at the rise of Antichrist. All Christians are given to escape from Eternal Judgment and only measurably from some troubles in the present age. But if Eternal Judgment begins with the rise of Antichrist, then no Christian should be on earth at that time! And yet, Christians are there being attacked and persecuted by the Antichrist. So no, Eternal Wrath does not begin during the Antichrist's Reign. And yes, God can pour out judgment on the wicked on earth even while the saints still live on that same earth.

 

[The Light]

Obviously, you and I are wanting to serve God today and to prevail until our last breath, and ultimately, to "stand before the Son of Man." What does that have to do with establishing a Pretrib Rapture?

Those that are watching and ready can escape ALL these things that will come to pass and stand before the son of man in HEAVEN. Many will escape the time of testing, many will not.

But if you're talking about escaping wrath,

No. I'm not taking about escaping wrath, though we will. I talking about escaping the tribulation. The tribulation is the time of Jacobs trouble. Jacob is Israel.

the thing we're escaping from is Eternal Judgment--not trouble on earth.

This is not correct. We will escape ALL THESE THINGS that will come to pass. False Christs which is the beast of the earth and the beast of the sea. We can escape the wars and rumors of wars, famines and pestilences.

I already established that we were warned by Jesus that his disciples would face many difficulties in this world, and would not be able to escape them when they happen. In case you've forgotten,

John 17.15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

Correct. We are warned that the disciples have to stay in the world as that is how the Gospel is spread. This does not apply to the end times.

We shouldn't use Scriptures to claim escape in the last days, during the reign of Antichrist, when the Apostle John had said antichrists were already present,

1 John 2.18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

The scripture says that we can escape all these things that will come to pass. That includes the false Christs of the beast of the earth and the beast of the sea.

About the only argument Pretribbers have is the claim that Eternal Judgment begins at the rise of Antichrist. All Christians are given to escape from Eternal Judgment and only measurably from some troubles in the present age. But if Eternal Judgment begins with the rise of Antichrist, then no Christian should be on earth at that time! And yet, Christians are there being attacked and persecuted by the Antichrist. So no, Eternal Wrath does not begin during the Antichrist's Reign. And yes, God can pour out judgment on the wicked on earth even while the saints still live on that same earth.

I am unaware of anyone that claims that eternal judgement begins at the rise of the Antichrist. This makes no sense.

 

[The Light]

@The Light claims = "Fact. The dead in Christ rise first. They will return back with Him when He comes for the alive that remain. The time is very, very, very short."

This another lie that 'pre-trib' has given birth to.

That Big Lie 'pre-trib rapture' just keeps on making more lies.

@The Light must bring forth from scripture where the LORD leaves behind His Saints in order to free himself from Judgment.

1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Well, that was easy enough. I'm afraid it won't that easy for you. I fear the Lord will give you exactly what you ask for. No doubt that you walk in blindness, unable to understand the Word of Truth. I don't think ignorance to the truth can justify attacking the truth.

 

[David in NJ]

1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Well, that was easy enough. I'm afraid it won't that easy for you. I fear the Lord will give you exactly what you ask for. No doubt that you walk in blindness, unable to understand the Word of Truth. I don't think ignorance to the truth can justify attacking the truth.

Your Post #109 is a complete lie and again is exposed as such.


1 Thess 3:12-13
And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you, so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

NEXT - 1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

JESUS is coming with His Saints (the dead in Him) from Heaven


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.

And the dead in Christ will rise first.

AFTER that

we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

You can hold unto your lie but in the End, it will burn up in your face..............."for no truth is of a lie"

 

[The Light]

Your Post #109 is a complete lie and again is exposed as such.

Total failure

1 Thess 3:12-13
And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you, so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

Not sure why you would post this as this is when Jesus comes with all His saints with the armies of heaven. The marriage supper happens in heaven as the marriage is in heaven. This proves you wrong, simple as that.

Revelation 19
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So how do all these people get to heaven and then return with the Lord as part of His army?

NEXT - 1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

JESUS is coming with His Saints (the dead in Him) from Heaven


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.

And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Exactly. The dead in Christ rise first. This is the barley harvest. When Jesus comes for the alive that remain, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him.

AFTER that

we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

You can hold unto your lie but in the End, it will burn up in your face..............."for no truth is of a lie"

What part of alive and remain are you having trouble understanding?

Jesus brings the dead with Him. They are in the clouds. The alive that remained when He came for the dead in Christ are caught up together with them in the clouds.

When Jesus comes for the alive that remain, this is the wheat harvest. The barley and wheat make up the grain harvest.

Here is a completely different coming of Jesus. Note that the dead and alive are changed at the same time, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump.
1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Behold]

When the Antichrist and his Mark is revealed, those who placed their trust in men/pre-trib rapture, will be susceptable to false reports of raptures occurring.

The born again wont be available for the anti-christ to deal with......
Why?
Its because Jesus doesn't leave his "blood bought" Bride to that one.

 

[David in NJ]

Total failure


Not sure why you would post this as this is when Jesus comes with all His saints with the armies of heaven. The marriage supper happens in heaven as the marriage is in heaven. This proves you wrong, simple as that.

Revelation 19
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So how do all these people get to heaven and then return with the Lord as part of His army?

Exactly. The dead in Christ rise first. This is the barley harvest. When Jesus comes for the alive that remain, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him.

What part of alive and remain are you having trouble understanding?

Jesus brings the dead with Him. They are in the clouds. The alive that remained when He came for the dead in Christ are caught up together with them in the clouds.

When Jesus comes for the alive that remain, this is the wheat harvest. The barley and wheat make up the grain harvest.

Here is a completely different coming of Jesus. Note that the dead and alive are changed at the same time, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump.
1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Lie upon lie is how pre-trib flies - until Judgment Comes and it burns with His Cleansing FIRE