Will you be caught up in the rapture or left-behind??

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David in NJ

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Put your emphasis on the lightning part of that
We are earnestly desiring our LORD that saved us with His Sinless Blood.

YES, when HE comes for us it will be lighting fast, in the heavens above where the dead in Christ will be Resurrected First.

AFTER that, we who are alive and remain unto His Second Coming will be "caught up" to join with the Resurrected Saints.

1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 

n2thelight

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If you are Christ"s,a born again believer,you will go in the rapture whether you believe one or not.
We will gather back to Christ but it won't be in what you call a rapture , as for born again ,it means born from above ,which all must do ,the fallen angels didn't , they left their habitation and came here ,(another subject) now back to this rapture

Questions for ya

Why would we need the Gospel Armour on if we not gonna be here

Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

Do you not understand that satan comes before Christ , pretendind to be Christ ? How can you make a stand if you not here .

Next question, how are the elect delivered up to satan when the next time true tongues are spoken if they not gonna be here ?


Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

Please don't say these are some tribulation saint foolishness

Do you understand this hour of temptation ?

You scared of satan

Finale question for now , what is it that's gonna happen that you rapturist think you gonna escape it ?

 

St. Joseph

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We are earnestly desiring our LORD that saved us with His Sinless Blood.

YES, when HE comes for us it will be lighting fast, in the heavens above where the dead in Christ will be Resurrected First.

AFTER that, we who are alive and remain unto His Second Coming will be "caught up" to join with the Resurrected Saints.

1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these w

We will gather back to Christ but it won't be in what you call a rapture , as for born again ,it means born from above ,which all must do ,the fallen angels didn't , they left their habitation and came here ,(another subject) now back to this rapture

Questions for ya

Why would we need the Gospel Armour on if we not gonna be here

Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

Do you not understand that satan comes before Christ , pretendind to be Christ ? How can you make a stand if you not here .

Next question, how are the elect delivered up to satan when the next time true tongues are spoken if they not gonna be here ?


Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

Please don't say these are some tribulation saint foolishness

Do you understand this hour of temptation ?

You scared of satan

Finale question for now , what is it that's gonna happen that you rapturist think you gonna escape it ?

That armor is for the here and now. Everyday living.
 
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n2thelight

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That armor is for the here and now. Everyday living.
While I agree that is true ,the below is when it will be needed the most

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

Satan will snap his fingers and lightning will come down from heaven. Satan will bring miracles, and supernatural wonders with him, and these wonders are given by God to perform the test the people of the world.

Revelation 13:14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles [signs] which he had power [it was given him] to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

This is the whole object for the great tribulation. "DECEPTION"! Satan is going to make an image of this "one world system" [religious beast] and breath life into system. Their will be something symbolic created within the system that will cause the whole world to bow. This reminds me of the "image" created in Babylon's "one world government" under king Nebuchadnezzar, in Daniel 3. At that time there were only three that would not bow to the image.

We will be here when satan arrives , it's all about deception , not death and destruction .The rapture doctrine is the most harmfull doctrine for us in the endtimes as anything , as you will be deceived
 
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St. Joseph

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While I agree that is true ,the below is when it will be needed the most

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

Satan will snap his fingers and lightning will come down from heaven. Satan will bring miracles, and supernatural wonders with him, and these wonders are given by God to perform the test the people of the world.

Revelation 13:14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles [signs] which he had power [it was given him] to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

This is the whole object for the great tribulation. "DECEPTION"! Satan is going to make an image of this "one world system" [religious beast] and breath life into system. Their will be something symbolic created within the system that will cause the whole world to bow. This reminds me of thihe "image" created in Babylon's "one world government" under king Nebuchadnezzar, in Daniel 3. At that time there were only three that would not bow to the image.

We will be here when satan arrives , it's all about deception , not death and destruction .The rapture doctrine is the most harmfull doctrine for us in the endtimes as anything , as you will be deceived
The church will be raptured before those verses. In Thessalonians,that temple will be in Israel. Church has no need of a temple. We are the temple.
2Thessalonians. 2:7 says,he who now letteth will let until he is taken out of the wsy. Then the wicked one is revealed.
He who letteth is the Hol Spirit. Jesus said he will never leave or forsake us. So then when the Spirit leaves we have to go with him or Christ lied. What would happen to the church if the Spirit left us alone down here?
 

n2thelight

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The church will be raptured before those verses. In Thessalonians,that temple will be in Israel. Church has no need of a temple. We are the temple.
2Thessalonians. 2:7 says,he who now letteth will let until he is taken out of the wsy. Then the wicked one is revealed.
He who letteth is the Hol Spirit. Jesus said he will never leave or forsake us. So then when the Spirit leaves we have to go with him or Christ lied. What would happen to the church if the Spirit left us alone down here?
Not true let's take a look at the subject of this chapter which starts from the first verse

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

Does this doctrine(rapture) happen before the above verse


I Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is [the Lord is just] at hand."

Paul doesn't want you to misunderstand what he is about to say. This is why he makes it plain and simple; Paul told them not to confuse what he is saying here with any other teaching, or spirit, or even that first letter from him.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God.

What did Paul say again?

Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first.

II Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity [lawlessness] doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

There is no mystery around when this will take place, for we will know his methods of operation [withholdeth], and the signs, the seasons, and the times of Satan's arrival to earth. If you are in the Word of God and not following these "one verse preachers", you will know when to expect the Antichrist. You will also know within hours of when to expect our Lord Jesus Christ's return. Satan's reign on earth is not seven years because God reduced that time to five months for the "elect's" sake, as Jesus told us in Matthew 24:22. Jesus also revealed that the time is shortened to five months, to John in Revelation 9:5, and 10.

The "mystery of lawlessness" is the mystery of iniquity. "He who now letteth will let"; in the Greek should be translated; "He who holds fast [ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly implied"; "There is one who hold's fast", instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. So if the subject in verse six is Satan, then the object must be his position in the heavenlies [see Ephesians 6:12], from which he will be ejected from heaven by Michael [Revelation 12:7-9].

"Out of the way", in the Greek is "out of ek", or "the midst". It is the same expression used in Acts 17:33, and I Corinthians 5:2.

Many "rapture theorists" claim this one who "letteth" is the Holy Spirit, and they claim that when He is "taken away", then the Antichrist will come. By reversing the role of the characters in the verses here, and attributing what is Satan's to the Holy Spirit, you have a whole new doctrine called the "Any moment doctrine". This false doctrine is better known as the "rapture theory". It is dangerous to play around with a foreign language; and when the flock relies upon their shepherd for the truth, and the shepherd is assumed to be correct; in ignorance it is accepted just because he said it.

It is Michael who "holds fast" on to Lucifer [the Antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time, spoken of above. That time is appointed by God. Then at the appointed time God will give Satan the keys [authority] to release his fallen angels and they will be cast to the earth [see Revelation 9:1-10]. Let's take a look at the one [Michael] who holds on to Satan now.

Revelation 12:7; "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," Michael [that is who the "he" is in II Thessalonians 2:7 and his [Michael's] angels fought against the dragon [another name for Satan] and his [Satan's] fallen angels.

Revelation 12:8; "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." This war took place in heaven, and that is where Satan and his angels are now; though Satan's spirit, and demonic spirits are all over the earth today. Now we will see what Michael does with Satan, in fulfilling II Thessalonians 2:7.

Revelation 12:9; "And the great dragon [Satan] was cast out [that is the transitive verb of verse seven], that old serpent [this is the role Satan played in the Garden of Eden], called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world [except for God's elect]: he was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

This is when Satan will physically appear on earth as a man with his angels. This is the time of the Antichrist's coming, and we must know when this time is by when these events takes place, for Satan comes at the sixth trumpet.

Then the verse picks up where Satan is standing in the holy place. Satan's object is to deceive all the world, and have the world take his markings in their minds. God's Word thus says that Satan will come to earth and stand in that Holy place, before Christ will come and gather anyone back to Himself.
 

St. Joseph

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Not true let's take a look at the subject of this chapter which starts from the first verse

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

Does this doctrine(rapture) happen before the above verse


I Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is [the Lord is just] at hand."

Paul doesn't want you to misunderstand what he is about to say. This is why he makes it plain and simple; Paul told them not to confuse what he is saying here with any other teaching, or spirit, or even that first letter from him.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God.

What did Paul say again?

Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first.

II Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity [lawlessness] doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

There is no mystery around when this will take place, for we will know his methods of operation [withholdeth], and the signs, the seasons, and the times of Satan's arrival to earth. If you are in the Word of God and not following these "one verse preachers", you will know when to expect the Antichrist. You will also know within hours of when to expect our Lord Jesus Christ's return. Satan's reign on earth is not seven years because God reduced that time to five months for the "elect's" sake, as Jesus told us in Matthew 24:22. Jesus also revealed that the time is shortened to five months, to John in Revelation 9:5, and 10.

The "mystery of lawlessness" is the mystery of iniquity. "He who now letteth will let"; in the Greek should be translated; "He who holds fast [ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly implied"; "There is one who hold's fast", instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. So if the subject in verse six is Satan, then the object must be his position in the heavenlies [see Ephesians 6:12], from which he will be ejected from heaven by Michael [Revelation 12:7-9].

"Out of the way", in the Greek is "out of ek", or "the midst". It is the same expression used in Acts 17:33, and I Corinthians 5:2.

Many "rapture theorists" claim this one who "letteth" is the Holy Spirit, and they claim that when He is "taken away", then the Antichrist will come. By reversing the role of the characters in the verses here, and attributing what is Satan's to the Holy Spirit, you have a whole new doctrine called the "Any moment doctrine". This false doctrine is better known as the "rapture theory". It is dangerous to play around with a foreign language; and when the flock relies upon their shepherd for the truth, and the shepherd is assumed to be correct; in ignorance it is accepted just because he said it.

It is Michael who "holds fast" on to Lucifer [the Antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time, spoken of above. That time is appointed by God. Then at the appointed time God will give Satan the keys [authority] to release his fallen angels and they will be cast to the earth [see Revelation 9:1-10]. Let's take a look at the one [Michael] who holds on to Satan now.

Revelation 12:7; "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," Michael [that is who the "he" is in II Thessalonians 2:7 and his [Michael's] angels fought against the dragon [another name for Satan] and his [Satan's] fallen angels.

Revelation 12:8; "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." This war took place in heaven, and that is where Satan and his angels are now; though Satan's spirit, and demonic spirits are all over the earth today. Now we will see what Michael does with Satan, in fulfilling II Thessalonians 2:7.

Revelation 12:9; "And the great dragon [Satan] was cast out [that is the transitive verb of verse seven], that old serpent [this is the role Satan played in the Garden of Eden], called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world [except for God's elect]: he was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

This is when Satan will physically appear on earth as a man with his angels. This is the time of the Antichrist's coming, and we must know when this time is by when these events takes place, for Satan comes at the sixth trumpet.

Then the verse picks up where Satan is standing in the holy place. Satan's object is to deceive all the world, and have the world take his markings in their minds. God's Word thus says that Satan will come to earth and stand in that Holy place, before Christ will come and gather anyone back to Himself.

Apostasy can mean fall away. Take out. And other meaninings.
 

n2thelight

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Apostasy can mean fall away. Take out. And other meaninings.
The meaning here is falling away from the truth ,so we can't say what it can mean but rather what it does .

II Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness [deceit] of unrighteousness in [for] them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth,"

I mean for real though , did not Christ Himself say He will return AFTER the tribulation ?
 

St. Joseph

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The meaning here is falling away from the truth ,so we can't say what it can mean but rather what it does .

II Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness [deceit] of unrighteousness in [for] them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth,"

I mean for real though , did not Christ Himself say He will return AFTER the tribulation ?
Yes he said that. And the rapture is before the tribulation. During tribulation the Holy Spirit will only be here to convict the lost. Where will the church be without an indwelling Spirit. Again... Thessalonians speaking of the Holy Spirit, the one who letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. The that wicked one will be revealed. If the Spirit leaves,the church has to leave with it. Jesus said he will never leave nor forsake us.
 
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n2thelight

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Yes he said that. And the rapture is before the tribulation. During tribulation the Holy Spirit will only be here to convict the lost. Where will the church be without an indwelling Spirit.
Where do you see in scripture where Christ returns before the tribulation ?
 

St. Joseph

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Yes he said that. And the rapture is before the tribulation. During tribulation the Holy Spirit will only be here to convict the lost. Where will the church be without an indwelling Spirit. Again... Thessalonians speaking of the Holy Spirit, the one who letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. The that wicked one will be revealed. If the Spirit leaves,the church has to leave with it. Jesus said he will never leave nor forsake us.
Read the above
 

n2thelight

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Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

What part of AFTER I'm I missing ?
 

St. Joseph

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Thesssalonians show the same as Matthew 24 , so again what part of Christ saying He returns after the tribulation I'm I missing? Also you said throughout so you have any

Christ didnt say it. But it is implied
 

David in NJ

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The church will be raptured before those verses. In Thessalonians,that temple will be in Israel. Church has no need of a temple. We are the temple.
2Thessalonians. 2:7 says,he who now letteth will let until he is taken out of the wsy. Then the wicked one is revealed.
He who letteth is the Hol Spirit. Jesus said he will never leave or forsake us. So then when the Spirit leaves we have to go with him or Christ lied. What would happen to the church if the Spirit left us alone down here?
2 Thess ch2 says the exact opposite:

"that day will not come (our gather unto the LORD) unless the falling away occur first and the man of sin is revealed."

The Holy Spirit is not double minded and neither was the Apostle Paul who said ="do you not remember when I told you these things"

ALL the Faithful Witnesses from OT to NT deny and rebuke 'pre-trib' rapture.

P.S. - the Holy Spirit never leaves us nor forsakes us = HE only permits the wicked one to be revealed by stepping away from the door.
 
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