You guys have to start praying for two things: the rapture of the faith (that it be great) and deliverance from the tribulation (that it not spread)

[ewq1938]

God will not contradict HImself.

Jesus was not talking about the 70th week. The great trribulation only lasts for 3 1/2 years, the tribulation for 7 years.

There is no contradiction. God changed his mind on something which he has done before:

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. KJV

Exo 32:14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
NASB


Amos 7:1 Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, He was forming a locust-swarm when the spring crop began to sprout. And behold, the spring crop was after the king's mowing.
2 And it came about, when it had finished eating the vegetation of the land, that I said, "Lord GOD, please pardon! How can Jacob stand, For he is small?"
3 The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.
4 ¶Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, the Lord GOD was calling to contend with them by fire, and it consumed the great deep and began to consume the farm land.
5 Then I said, "Lord GOD, please stop! How can Jacob stand, for he is small?"
6 The LORD changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord GOD.
7 ¶Thus He showed me, and behold, the Lord was standing by a vertical wall, with a plumb line in His hand.
8 And the LORD said to me, "What do you see, Amos?" And I said, "A plumb line." Then the Lord said, "Behold I am about to put a plumb line In the midst of My people Israel. I will spare them no longer.


Another time God changed his mind was regarding the Israelites and the golden calf. God initially was going to destroy them and make a new nation of people from the descendants of Moses instead but Moses intervened and God changed His mind again and allowed the people of Israel to live.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is no contradiction. God changed his mind on something which he has done before:

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. KJV

Exo 32:14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
NASB

IN order for God to change HIs mind would necessitate He cannot foresee the future which is false. It is an anthropomorphism that is being used.

Example: god foreknew He would wipe out all mankind with th eflood save Noah and his family before He created the universe. So He did not repent in making man. He knew before He created man He was going to do it.

But now you are talking about God changing His mind about a prophetic event now 2000 from the prophesy. So you are implying the prophesy initially was wrong from god and Jesus was correcting the prophesy , so Daniel was falsely prophesying.

God was foretelling the future, why would He foretell one thing in the OT, correct Himself in the NT and then know it was still 2000 years away? Whole lot simpler to just say what He foreknew.

 

[Timtofly]

There is no contradiction. God changed his mind on something which he has done before:

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. KJV

Exo 32:14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
NASB


Amos 7:1 Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, He was forming a locust-swarm when the spring crop began to sprout. And behold, the spring crop was after the king's mowing.
2 And it came about, when it had finished eating the vegetation of the land, that I said, "Lord GOD, please pardon! How can Jacob stand, For he is small?"
3 The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.
4 ¶Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, the Lord GOD was calling to contend with them by fire, and it consumed the great deep and began to consume the farm land.
5 Then I said, "Lord GOD, please stop! How can Jacob stand, for he is small?"
6 The LORD changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord GOD.
7 ¶Thus He showed me, and behold, the Lord was standing by a vertical wall, with a plumb line in His hand.
8 And the LORD said to me, "What do you see, Amos?" And I said, "A plumb line." Then the Lord said, "Behold I am about to put a plumb line In the midst of My people Israel. I will spare them no longer.


Another time God changed his mind was regarding the Israelites and the golden calf. God initially was going to destroy them and make a new nation of people from the descendants of Moses instead but Moses intervened and God changed His mind again and allowed the people of Israel to live.

Daniel never prophesied about a 7 year tribulation to begin with. Jesus was already the Messiah for 3.5 years. The only 3.5 years left is as the Prince to come.

That last 3.5 years will be shortened. The longer the Second Coming does not happen, the shorter that 3.5 years gets. The church is being given more opportunity to bring in the harvest for the elects sake. The church should be faithful always even until the Second Coming. The church should not slack off thinking there is going to be a future 7 years of hardship, and if we do nothing, it will be shortened.

The church will have no influence during the tribulation, because that is when Jesus and all the angels will be on the earth. The church is not on the earth at the same time as the angels.

Prophecy is about God changing His mind after warning of evil to come. The city of Nineveh in Jonah is specifically about that. Had they not repented, God would have followed through. The point is how to reconcile God's foreknowledge with what actually happens. God would have known if Nineveh repented or if Nineveh had not repented.

"Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."

Many claim that there will be a future AC, as if it is already a done deal. The only reason for the AC is if the church quit and gave up. So the church is the only reason for the need of a future AC. It is the church that can repent and turn history around: 2 Chronicles 7:13-15

"If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place."

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

If my people (the elect) shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways. Jesus gave the church the answer how to shorten the tribulation.

People need to stop expecting the AC, and start expecting a golden harvest. Like Nineveh, the tribulation would not be necessary.

 

[Cassandra]

Just throwing this out there :

Right after the stoning of Stephen 34AD (70 weeks ended) came the conversion of Saul, and the Gospel preached to the Gentiles.

 

[Timtofly]

God was foretelling the future, why would He foretell one thing in the OT, correct Himself in the NT and then know it was still 2000 years away? Whole lot simpler to just say what He foreknew.

What future was God foretelling in Revelation? John was a witness to the future, not a foretelling of that future.

John is not writing about God's foreknowledge. John was writing the events of a literal future. That future does not have to turn out how John saw it.

However it does turn out is what God knew. But it has not happened yet.

Even Daniel was told by Gabriel the worse case scenario. But not the only scenario.

People tend to think that God tells us His foreknowledge in Scripture. Jesus obviously told Abraham way more about God's foreknowledge. But Moses only wrote down bits and pieces of what happened and not everything Abraham knew, or was told.

Once again the example of Jonah. Did God tell Jonah to proclaim to Nineveh His foreknowledge, or that God would destroy Nineveh? Obviously what Jonah proclaimed was not foreknowledge unless you think that God repenting is God changing His foreknowledge as well? Why would the salvation and God repenting not be God's foreknowledge instead of destruction?

Seems Jonah already had an idea about God's foreknowledge:

"And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil."

Jonah told God, that Jonah already knew what would happen, so why even warn the citizens of Nineveh.

The citizens could only repent after hearing what Jonah had to say. God already knew that Jonah would go in the opposite direction as well. Jonah was not a false prophet, Jonah was the only one who could bring about repentance for both Nineveh and God. God already knew that as well. Had God not known that, God would not have brought Jonah back in the belly of a fish, but let Jonah drown, and just sent someone else.

God had it all thought out and under control. Even letting Jonah do as Jonah thought was necessary, not going to Nineveh initially.

Of course we can see God's foreknowledge throughout Scripture, and hints here and there. But prophecy is not just God's foreknowledge. Prophecy is given to warn us that we can change how history turns out. That change is repenting of our own sin and wickedness. Humans are God's elect when they repent of their sin and turn to God for salvation.

 

[Timtofly]

Just throwing this out there :

Right after the stoning of Stephen 34AD (70 weeks ended) came the conversion of Saul, and the Gospel preached to the Gentiles.
View attachment 42039

Jesus could not have been crucified in 31AD. The Passover was on a Tuesday that year. Now if you claim calenders are wrong, how are you getting your dates from a calender that could be wrong?

The only 3 years in that time frame that fit the Passover would be 27AD, 30AD or 33AD.

In 30AD the Passover was on a Thursday. In 33AD the Passover was on a Saturday. That is why 33AD is the traditional date set after the 16th century and the Gregorian Calendar.

33AD would also put Jesus being born around 1AD.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Even Daniel was told by Gabriel the worse case scenario. But not the only scenario.

And your proof of this biblically is?

What future was God foretelling in Revelation? John was a witness to the future, not a foretelling of that future.

John is not writing about God's foreknowledge. John was writing the events of a literal future. That future does not have to turn out how John saw it.

And by what authority do you say that? John was told that these things he saw would sooon come to pass, not might come to pass. Would tells me they will.

Once again the example of Jonah. Did God tell Jonah to proclaim to Nineveh His foreknowledge, or that God would destroy Nineveh? Obviously what Jonah proclaimed was not foreknowledge unless you think that God repenting is God changing His foreknowledge as well? Why would the salvation and God repenting not be God's foreknowledge instead of destruction?

No Nineveh was eventually destroyed for the very things Jonah prophesied about. they were just delayed from the human perspective

The citizens could only repent after hearing what Jonah had to say. God already knew that Jonah would go in the opposite direction as well. Jonah was not a false prophet, Jonah was the only one who could bring about repentance for both Nineveh and God. God already knew that as well. Had God not known that, God would not have brought Jonah back in the belly of a fish, but let Jonah drown, and just sent someone else.

No! Only god can bring about repentance and he uses us humans to preach that word with HIS and not our power.

Of course we can see God's foreknowledge throughout Scripture, and hints here and there. But prophecy is not just God's foreknowledge. Prophecy is given to warn us that we can change how history turns out. That change is repenting of our own sin and wickedness. Humans are God's elect when they repent of their sin and turn to God for salvation.

.Prophesy is simply telling the future in advance. when God says something will happen-it will happen. Mankind cannot stop the will of God from happening.

 

[Timtofly]

And your proof of this biblically is?

And by what authority do you say that? John was told that these things he saw would sooon come to pass, not might come to pass. Would tells me they will.

No Nineveh was eventually destroyed for the very things Jonah prophesied about. they were just delayed from the human perspective

No! Only god can bring about repentance and he uses us humans to preach that word with HIS and not our power.


.Prophesy is simply telling the future in advance. when God says something will happen-it will happen. Mankind cannot stop the will of God from happening.

Those soon events have not happened yet. Until they happen, can one say they actually happened.

 

[Gottservant]

Did not read all your responses but this is a wasted time in prayer.

All believers will be raptured and God will not lose one of His own ever.

Two the tribulation will be global, will last seven years and will not be shortened.

If Jesus knew God's will, why did He pray "your will be done"?

I'm just being as practical as practical as practical - imagine how many brothers you could have saved, if only you were ready for the times you were in?

I'm saying we are all in a time of trial, prayer is the only thing that can change that ("unless you repent, you will all likewise perish" Jesus, gospels, from memory).

I'm not angry with you, but the words you are wounding me with, could easily go to God?

 

[VCO]

This chart, I believe it is as accurate as they come:

 

[ewq1938]

IN order for God to change HIs mind would necessitate He cannot foresee the future which is false.

Scripture shows that God sometimes knows the future, and other times does not know the future.

Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.



Here God feels like he should not have created mankind. He regrets the decision and is very upset over it. If God didn't change his mind he would not have to regret any decisions. It also shows that he didn't know that man would have become so wicked otherwise he wouldn't have made man.




Isa 5:2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

"He dug it all around, removed its stones, and planted it with the choicest vine. And He built a tower in the middle of it and also hewed out a wine vat in it; Then He expected it to produce good grapes, but it produced only worthless ones" (Isa. 5:2).

Here God clearly expected one thing but another thing occurred proving in this particular situation showing he did not know what would occur.


God can choose to know the future or choose not to as in the above example.


Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.


How does an all knowing God not remember sins? Wouldn't that be a contradiction?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If Jesus knew God's will, why did He pray "your will be done"?

I'm just being as practical as practical as practical - imagine how many brothers you could have saved, if only you were ready for the times you were in?

I'm saying we are all in a time of trial, prayer is the only thing that can change that ("unless you repent, you will all likewise perish" Jesus, gospels, from memory).

I'm not angry with you, but the words you are wounding me with, could easily go to God?

Because He knew Gods will as it is in heaven, so He was praying as Gods will is done in heaven, it would be done on eart the same. You misunderstood what Jesus was declaring.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Scripture shows that God sometimes knows the future, and other times does not know the future.

Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.



Here God feels like he should not have created mankind. He regrets the decision and is very upset over it. If God didn't change his mind he would not have to regret any decisions. It also shows that he didn't know that man would have become so wicked otherwise he wouldn't have made man.

This is an anthropomorphism- giving human qualities to God for us to try to understand HIm a little better.

• Psalms 147:5 - Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.
• 1 John 3:20 - For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
• Psalm 139:4
  Even before there is a word on my tongue,
  Behold, O Lord, You know it all.
  
  Isaiah 46:9-10
  “Remember the former things long past,
  For I am God, and there is no other;
  I am God, and there is no one like Me,
  Declaring the end from the beginning,
  And from ancient times things which have not been done,
  Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
  And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
  
  God knows the beginning to the end.
  

  How does an all knowing God not remember sins? Wouldn't that be a contradiction?

  He chooses and declared He chooses.

for the rest you are making assumptions.

God prepared the world for a flood by making vast underground caverns of water and having a vast atmospheric water canopy. No God knows the future and the only thing the bible declares God chooses to forget is our sins once He has forgiven them,.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Those soon events have not happened yet. Until they happen, can one say they actually happened.

No we say they will happen.

When God says it will come to pass----It WILL come to pass.

 

[Timtofly]

No we say they will happen.

When God says it will come to pass----It WILL come to pass.

Exactly when.

Until the when happens, it has not come to pass.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Exactly when.

Until the when happens, it has not come to pass.

But it will, that is what matters.

 

[ewq1938]

This is an anthropomorphism- giving human qualities to God for us to try to understand HIm a little better.

• Psalms 147:5 - Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.
• 1 John 3:20 - For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
• Psalm 139:4
  Even before there is a word on my tongue,
  Behold, O Lord, You know it all.
  
  Isaiah 46:9-10
  “Remember the former things long past,
  For I am God, and there is no other;
  I am God, and there is no one like Me,
  Declaring the end from the beginning,
  And from ancient times things which have not been done,
  Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
  And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
  
  God knows the beginning to the end.
  
  He chooses and declared He chooses.

for the rest you are making assumptions.

God prepared the world for a flood by making vast underground caverns of water and having a vast atmospheric water canopy. No God knows the future and the only thing the bible declares God chooses to forget is our sins once He has forgiven them,.

You avoided addressing the scriptures I referred to. No surprise there. Scripture shows that sometimes God is surprised and/or disappointed with what happens showing He does not always know the future.

 

[VCO]

There is no contradiction. God changed his mind on something which he has done before:

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. KJV

Exo 32:14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
NASB


Amos 7:1 Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, He was forming a locust-swarm when the spring crop began to sprout. And behold, the spring crop was after the king's mowing.
2 And it came about, when it had finished eating the vegetation of the land, that I said, "Lord GOD, please pardon! How can Jacob stand, For he is small?"
3 The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.
4 ¶Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, the Lord GOD was calling to contend with them by fire, and it consumed the great deep and began to consume the farm land.
5 Then I said, "Lord GOD, please stop! How can Jacob stand, for he is small?"
6 The LORD changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord GOD.
7 ¶Thus He showed me, and behold, the Lord was standing by a vertical wall, with a plumb line in His hand.
8 And the LORD said to me, "What do you see, Amos?" And I said, "A plumb line." Then the Lord said, "Behold I am about to put a plumb line In the midst of My people Israel. I will spare them no longer.


Another time God changed his mind was regarding the Israelites and the golden calf. God initially was going to destroy them and make a new nation of people from the descendants of Moses instead but Moses intervened and God changed His mind again and allowed the people of Israel to live.

It is not like we changing our minds, with GOD. He is an immortal being that KNOWS ALL. He Knew from the beginning or the foundation of the earth, who He would save and who He would not save. He understood every conversation, and the motive, that would take place that we would have.

So HE understood Everything from beginning to the end. So He knew from the very beginning that He would Change His Mind.

 

[ewq1938]

It is not like we changing our minds, with GOD. He is an immortal being that KNOWS ALL. He Knew from the beginning or the foundation of the earth, who He would save and who He would not save. He understood every conversation, and the motive, that would take place that we would have.

So HE understood Everything from beginning to the end. So He knew from the very beginning that He would Change His Mind.

That's unsupported opinion. I have posted scripture that proves God changes his mind, and also does not know the future sometimes.

 

[VCO]

That's unsupported opinion. I have posted scripture that proves God changes his mind, and also does not know the future sometimes.

How about this support.

Isaiah 46:10
New International Version
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

Isaiah 45:21
King James Version
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time?
who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD?
and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

2 Kings 19:25
New International Version
“’Have you not heard? Long ago I ordained it. In days of old I planned it; now I have brought it to pass, that you have turned fortified cities into piles of stone.

Isaiah 37:26
English Standard Version
“‘ Have you not heard that I determined it long ago?
I planned from days of old what now I bring to pass,
that you should make fortified cities crash into
heaps of ruins,
27while their inhabitants, shorn of strength,
are dismayed and confounded,
and have become like plants of the field
and like tender grass,
like grass on the housetops,
blighted before it is grown.