Your Thoughts: Are The NT/OT Gods "Different"?

[Hidden In Him]

Who else but the servants of the devil would kill God’s prophets?
Jesus said: Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. (Matthew 23:34-35 KJV)

This point no one is in disagreement with. The problem is when you superimpose this onto the concept that those who killed the prophets were being pleasing to God. And since the OT prophets acknowledged that they were serving the OT God, how exactly do you reconcile this? Were the prophets in the OT just as deceived as the Jewish people were, serving a God they thought was good who was actually evil?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Not the first time this question has been tossed about in Christian circles brother. It does cause one to wonder. Why would Omniscient God create his own Adversary, Satan?

"Create" is a bit of a strong word, sister. In a created world where beings can act on their own volition, there exists and would always exist the potential for some to turn against even their own Creator. He wasn't "created" evil, he became what God did not desire, as have many men and women down through history. But in the case of men, there is always time so long as they are alive to turn from their enmity back to loving the God who made them.

As one can imagine there are a vast number of related videos. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=is+satan+god+of+old+testament+part+1

Oh brother, LoL. I like your first video guy better. This guy (1st video in this post) is steeped in secular and even new age mentalities regarding scripture, prayer, the God of the Bible, all sorts of things.

Yeah... I'm skimming, and he's off in New Age never never land, Lol. I'll try to watch the Catholic one in a little bit. Maybe that's a little more grounded.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Do you fellas not believe scripture? You say the God of the NT is the real deal, much better than the one of the OT, so what happened to the OT version? Lost in translation?

Agreed. I'd be interested to discuss specific passages where the prophets are led to speak on "God's" behalf. Something tells me the theory would get holes poked all through it once you started getting down to Chapter and verse, i.e. not just select passages that appear on the surface to favor the view, but all of them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

There is only one God, but not everyone worships him. You know that when you look at the worlds religions and the Jews are no exception. Many people worship Jesus, the WORD, the I AM, the King of kings, the Lord of lords of Isaiah, but not the Old Testament people who were worse than the Corinthians for their idol worship. The god of the Jews is the god of war, the god of one nation, their God. Jesus said to them, "If you knew me you would know the Father" but apart from the remnant, they know neither Jesus or the Father. Jesus told them who their god is in John 8:44.

Again, Cooper, you are taking a verse where a specific group of people are being addressed and extrapolating that out to where it speaks of the entire Jewish people. This is an illogical conclusion. The apostles were all JEWS. How can "the God of the Jews" as you clearly describe Him above choose twelve JEWS to be His primary disciples, and thousands of other JEWS to be the adherents of His "true" faith for at least a dozen years before the message was ever preached to a single Gentile? Makes zero sense, Cooper. Your theology is Gnostic and Luciferian, and if you keep teaching this business your eternity will be spent in torment.

Not saying it in anger, so don't misunderstand. But you are manifesting zero ability to hear, and an obstinate refusal to receive the truth. When this happens, I am no longer serving you properly by simply playing around in debate with you.

God bless,
Hidden In Him.

 

[WaterSong]

"Create" is a bit of a strong word, sister.

Indeed it is. And yet used generations after God said, in the beginning he created the heavens and the earth.

In a created world where beings can act on their own volition, there exists and would always exist the potential for some to turn against even their own Creator. He wasn't "created" evil, he became what God did not desire, as have many men and women down through history. But in the case of men, there is always time so long as they are alive to turn from their enmity back to loving the God who made them.

We are going to agree to disagree here. And you're going to be purrrrrrfectly OK with that, or else I'll feel the need to take away all of your S'mores.

Oh brother, LoL. I like your first video guy better. This guy (1st video in this post) is steeped in secular and even new age mentalities regarding scripture, prayer, the God of the Bible, all sorts of things.

I'd agree in that quantum physics is advanced in the new age.As was Jesus when he appeared in a new age ready for the new covenant that later became described in the new testament. All of which followed the old age, old testament.

Yeah... I'm skimming, and he's off in New Age never never land, Lol. I'll try to watch the Catholic one in a little bit. Maybe that's a little more grounded.

I wish you the best.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well I like your post except calling the church spiritual Israel for we are not ! We are the church. spiritual Israel are saved Jews. Paul made a difference between Jews and Gentiles and the church is the one NEW man, not a spiritualized version of the old man. And by calling the nation carnal, you are implying there were no saved among the nation of Israel and that is not true.

Well no. I do agree with you that there are some who use the term "spiritual Israel" to refer to the church only. That's not my theology. When I use the term, I mean all those, whether Jew or Gentile, whether Old Testament or New, who truly embraced the Living God and sought to obey and serve Him with their lives; in short, the saved. I don't think using the term in reference to the church alone is correct either.

The church is not a nation so as far as governing in the land? We are told to obey the governing authorities.

Yes, only the difference was, with ancient Israel the Living God Himself ruled over the nation directly, and arbitrated over matters of civil government through kings, judges and prophets. With the church, we have no nation, nor is our God fully in authority over any nation, so we abide by the laws of the land in which we live.

My apologies if I am getting off track, but I'm assuming I'm understanding you correctly : )

 

[Hidden In Him]

We are going to agree to disagree here. And you're going to be purrrrrrfectly OK with that, or else I'll feel the need to take away all of your S'mores.

The threat of losing my S'mores indeed looms ominously before me, so whatever the Hell you're trying to say, I suppose I should hold my peace, LoL!

I'd agree in that quantum physics is advanced in the new age.As was Jesus when he appeared in a new age ready for the new covenant that later became described in the new testament. All of which followed the old age, old testament.

Tish tosh! LoL. You're equating the New Testament era with the Aquarian New Age, which if memory serves me correctly dawned back in the 1970s for something, Lol.

Keep using logic like that and I'll take away all your S'mores and feed them to my dogs, LoL.

 

[WaterSong]

Finally got around to checking this out some, and the problem with his teaching here is that it is an argument from scholarship that is divorced from an understanding of supernatural reality and faith in both Jewish and Christian tradition. This casts doubt on if the Living God has been able to properly communicate truth to His people. I disagree wildly with commonly held interpretations of various scriptures, but when it comes to standard dogma, I don't disagree with established church doctrine very much. I am Apostle's Creed right down the line, not only based on the above principle, but because every bit of it is supported by scripture.

He appears to mean well enough, but this is an example of scholarship divorced from faith in the Living God to communicate truth accurately where the fundamental doctrines of the faith are concerned; something I do not and cannot subscribe to.

That's why I forewarned Bill Donahue's videos are not for Fundamentalists.

 

[WaterSong]

Well I like your post except calling the church spiritual Israel for we are not ! We are the church. spiritual Israel are saved Jews. Paul made a difference between Jews and Gentiles and the church is the one NEW man, not a spiritualized version of the old man. And by calling the nation carnal, you are implying there were no saved among the nation of Israel and that is not true.

Those instructions of the Mosaic Law were divided into three aspects to show which part of life they governed! eye for eye was in th ecivil section of the one law for purposes of meting out punishment for crime! This phrase is akin to "let the punishment fit the crime". Remember God established the people of Israel as a nation and gave them rules on how to govern themselves as a nation.

The church is not a nation so as far as governing in the land? We are told to obey the governing authorities.

Spiritual Israel is a reference to everyone who believes in Jesus.

 

[WaterSong]

The threat of losing my S'mores indeed looms ominously before me, so whatever the Hell you're trying to say, I suppose I should hold my peace, LoL!

I didn't try anything. I said we'd agree to disagree on your counter argument to my argument. (for the snowflake lurkers here, argument in the context of my meaning refers to my observations, vs. HIH's observations.)

Tish tosh! LoL. You're equating the New Testament era with the Aquarian New Age, which if memory serves me correctly dawned back in the 1970s for something, Lol.

I think it impossible to argue, or counter, the content of a video that one hasn't watched. Checking it out some doesn't provide allow one to know what Mr.Donahue is teaching.

Keep using logic like that and I'll take away all your S'mores and feed them to my dogs, LoL.

Impossible. I hid them in a vault and sprinkled a white and black pepper combo around it so as to throw off their ability to scent them out.

In all seriousness, QP is the foundation of Bill Donahue's video.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I didn't try anything.

That's good. I take my sweets very seriously.

I think it impossible to argue, or counter, the content of a video that one hasn't watched. Checking it out some doesn't provide allow one to know what Mr.Donahue is teaching.

UGH! You truly wish me to sit through an hour of that business? He's New Age flaking out all over the place! ...

Impossible. I hid them in a vault and sprinkled a white and black pepper combo around it so as to throw off their ability to scent them out.

White pepper on S'mores. Excellent taste combo. I bet you get many requests from people.

In all seriousness, QP is the foundation of Bill Donahue's video.

That would be nice, if he weren't combining it with New Age whackadooism. His quantum physics has taken off from Cape Canaveral and ascended through the atmosphere somewhere and out into the religious cosmos, never to be seen by the inhabitants of planet earth ever again.

If you wish me to follow him out there, tell me exactly what it is I stand to gain. Seems like it will be a VERY long trip.

 

[WaterSong]

That's good. I take my sweets very seriously.


UGH! You truly wish me to sit through an hour of that business? He's New Age flaking out all over the place! ...

White pepper on S'mores. Excellent taste combo. I bet you get many requests from people.


That would be nice, if he weren't combining it with New Age whackadooism. His quantum physics has taken off from Cape Canaveral and ascended through the atmosphere somewhere and out into the religious cosmos, never to be seen by the inhabitants of planet earth ever again.

If you wish me to follow him out there, tell me exactly what it is I stand to gain. Seems like it will be a VERY long trip.

No. It's better that you hold to your beliefs.

P.S your cat looks pissed. Did you hide her bag of chicken flavored Temptations cat treats again?

 

[Hidden In Him]

P.S your cat looks pissed. Did you hide her bag of chicken flavored Temptations cat treats again?

No Temptations for him. I still wonder if he's the one killing squirrels and birds around here, or if it's the neighbor's cat.

But the only "Temptations" he's getting are if I decide to do some dance moves for him.

 

[Berserk]

The answer to the OP is that the apparent inconsistencies must be explained in terms of progressive revelation. Progressive revelation raises the question of the extent to which OT Jewish culture limited and distorted the revelatory impulse of prophets and what the Israelites were and were not willing to accept as God's Word. In the OT disxussion of progressive revelation should begin with Jeremiah 7:21-23:


"Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices and eat the flesh! For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices, But this command I gave them, "Obey my voice and I will be your God and you shall be my people."

In the NT discussion of this issue should begin with Jesus' recurring phrase "You have heard that it was said (in yhr OT), but I say unto you "and "Moses wrote his commandment for you because of the hardness of your hearts (Mark 10:5).

 

[Cooper]

This point no one is in disagreement with. The problem is when you superimpose this onto the concept that those who killed the prophets were being pleasing to God. And since the OT prophets acknowledged that they were serving the OT God, how exactly do you reconcile this? Were the prophets in the OT just as deceived as the Jewish people were, serving a God they thought was good who was actually evil?

No way did those Jews who killed God's prophets please God. Please Satan yes, better still they would please Satan even more when they plotted our Lords death.
.

 

[Cooper]

Again, Cooper, you are taking a verse where a specific group of people are being addressed and extrapolating that out to where it speaks of the entire Jewish people. This is an illogical conclusion. The apostles were all JEWS. How can "the God of the Jews" as you clearly describe Him above choose twelve JEWS to be His primary disciples, and thousands of other JEWS to be the adherents of His "true" faith for at least a dozen years before the message was ever preached to a single Gentile? Makes zero sense, Cooper. Your theology is Gnostic and Luciferian, and if you keep teaching this business your eternity will be spent in torment.

Not saying it in anger, so don't misunderstand. But you are manifesting zero ability to hear, and an obstinate refusal to receive the truth. When this happens, I am no longer serving you properly by simply playing around in debate with you. You are going to Hell for teaching this if you continue in it.

God bless,
Hidden In Him.

The apostles followed Jesus, while the majority of Jews rejected the promised Messiah and shouted 'crucify him'. The Jews had their own god, the deceiver.
.

 

[quietthinker]

.

 

[Mayflower]

I thought Id ask about this verse here. @FluffyYellowDuck posted a thread involving it and wondered what it means. It is a hard verse. Thought it would go well with this discussion. Hopefully.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

 

[Mayflower]

Here is the thread too:

How should Christians with the freeze response to trauma relate to Dt 22:23-27? (Trigger Warning)

 

[DuckieLady]

I thought Id ask about this verse here. @FluffyYellowDuck posted a thread involving it and wondered what it means. It is a hard verse. Thought it would go well with this discussion. Hopefully.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Thanks @Mayflower !