on the contrary all scripture is inspired word of God the question was not about scripture but about the revelation when it was received
Is the Word of God only found in scripture?
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on the contrary all scripture is inspired word of God the question was not about scripture but about the revelation when it was received
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
There is no more "revelation " received that ended with the death of the last Apostle which was John on the island of patmos.
hope this helps !!!
I agree but we still must have apostles teaching the nations and baptizing the disciples,
my question follows
Lk 3:2 the word came to John
John proclaimed the word yo the people “repent the kingdom is at hand”
then written in Johns gospel
question please focus
it it divine revelation and the word of God in all three cases?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I never disagreed. But Petros/Peter/Cephas is a different size rock than Petra. Both can be called rocks, but they are of different mass and size. Peter is a chip off the old block- who is Jesus.
Once again Peter is a stone, but his statement "Thou art the Christ....." is the boulder upon which the church is built.
You said:
Cephas is also Kephas is also Petros is also Peter. They all mean rock!
Kephas = Petros = Peter
Kephas is a great big rock
Therefore Petros is a great big rock
Therefore Peter is a great big rock.
There is another interesting point about Mt 16:18.
It depends on understanding where they were.
Are you interested or just determined to not understand?
Are you seeking the truth or just want to play word games?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I am not playing word games, just passing on definitions. But go ahead with revealing you rinteresting points about Matt. 16.
Cephas:
TDNT Reference: Cephas (6x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- Cephas = "stone"
- another name for the apostle Peter
- another name for the apostle Peter
The KJV translates Strong's G4073 in the following manner: rock (16x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- a rock, cliff or ledge
- a projecting rock, crag, rocky ground
- a rock, a large stone
- metaph. a man like a rock, by reason of his firmness and strength of soul
- a projecting rock, crag, rocky ground
But having been to Israel, if the traditions are true, where Jesus spoke this was by a cave that was called the gates of hell. All over the ground were lots and lots of petros(stones) that had fallen off the large cliff (petra) above the cave. A beautiful word play of Jesus part!
And I've given you definitions
From 2786. Képhas
Strong's Concordance
Képhas: "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Original Word: Κηφᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Képhas
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-fas')
Definition: "a rock", Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Usage: Cephas (Aramaic for rock), the new name given to Simon Peter, the apostle.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of Aramaic origin
Definition
"a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2786: Κεφας
Κεφας, κεφα (Buttmann, 20 (18)), ὁ (Chaldean כֵּיפָא, a rock), Cephas (equivalent to Πέτρος (cf. B. D. (American edition), p. 2459)), the surname of Simon the apostle: John 1:42 (43); 1 Corinthians 1:12; 1 Corinthians 3:22; 1 Corinthians 9:5; 1 Corinthians 15:5; Galatians 2:9; and L T Tr WH also in Galatians 1:18; Galatians 2:11, 14.
Strong's Greek: 2786. Κηφᾶς (Képhas) -- "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
I've been to Israel as well and been to the same place.
What you are missing is that there were not a lot of little stones in Jesus' day.
I'll give you the short version.
In each gospel Peter makes a profession of faith in Christ:
Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:16)
Peter answered him, “You are the Christ.” (Mk 8:29)
And Peter answered, “The Christ of God.” (Lk 9:20)
Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life” (Jn 6:28)
Matthew's version is interesting because it takes place in Caesarea Philippi.
Caesarea Philippi is at the far north of Israel, a long way, probably 3 days walking from Capernaum. In Matthew’s gospel this incident is the only one reported at Caesarea Philippi so this exchange seems to have been the main purpose of his visit.
Why?
As you have seen at Caesarea Philippi there is a massive cliff face, at the base of which were not lots of stones but various temples to pagan gods. One of these was erected by Herod the Great to the Emperor of Rome, Augustus Caesar
Jesus is contrasting these temples, built on solid rock, to the one he will build on Peter the Rock.
Moreover Caesarea Philippi, the ancient city of Paneas, was enlarged by Philip the Tetrach renamed Caesarea Philippi to honour the Emperor Tiberius Caesar and his own name of Philip. What Jesus and the apostles were looking at was not just an old pagan shrine, but represented pagan Rome with it’s emperor worship, the fourth beast of Daniel’s prophecy.
Jesus is making a powerful visual statement. He has brought Peter to Rome. It is Rome that his Church will confront and Rome that will be the centre of his Church. And Peter is the Rock the Church will be built on.
And he says to Peter "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
still not answering
how do you govern the church on a confession?
how do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession?
matt 23 the successors of Moses in their persons had this authority and it was taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and his successors Matt 16:18
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
No. Little birdy. Why not become a believer in Jesus Christ and follow him?
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did Jesus Christ ever say what books and chapters are scripture?
Or that all divine faith is in scripture?
a believer is not enough!
a believer is only a catechumen and not a Christian until baptized
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
You are missing the point Little Birdy. You need to repent and confess your sins, not to a priest, but to God himself. You need to come out of the false religion and seek God's forgiveness. Satan is at the doorstep. Time is short. Don't waste it on endless arguments about things that don't matter.
Though your church may be "catholic", remember what Jesus Christ said, “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." The gate you entered, Little Birdy, is wide (Catholic) and it leads to destruction. Don't go that way. Find the narrow way.
Everything you think you believe or understand is wrong. You went through the wide gate, Little Birdy, and you serve the master of that realm. Everything he taught you is bent just a little bit so as to be useless. Seek the straight, the narrow, the eternal, the indestructible, the permanent. There is no vicar for the real, true Jesus Christ. Don't follow the leader of vice. Step away from it and seek the one true light of the world. Follow him.
"So let us stop talkin' falsely now
The hour's getting late, hey"
Jn 20:21-23 confess
Jn 10:16 only one church
Acts 9:4 christ and his church are one
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 mph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
No, Little Birdy. There are only twelve apostles. Paul took the place of Judas. Have you never read, "the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb"?
There are only twelve apostles. These men began the construction of Jesus' church, laying the foundation.
Fire is coming to test each man's work. Will your work survive?
I don't think so. Your work is built on another foundation, a foundation built by the one who seeks to destroy God's temple.
1 Corinthians 3:
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Would you like to be a follower of Jesus? Abjure your allegiance to the one man who built on the wrong foundation with inferior materials. Turn to Jesus Christ in repentance and seek his forgiveness. The New Testament is the place to find the truth concerning Jesus Christ and the Father's ratification of his ministry, his teaching, and his obedience, even unto death. The Father raised him from the dead, as the firstborn among many breathren, and Jesus is advocating for his followers. Why not give up your religion and worship the only man worthy of your obedience?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
what you are missing is that little stones are also called by us "gravel". Go to Israel there is tons of gravel.
Caesarea Philippi and the Gates of Hell – Elliot Ritzema
Though there were many pagan temples in c. Phillipi, Jesus was not referring top them allegorically. Sorry. Also the word usage inspired by god Himself petros for Peter and Petra for the rock which He would build His church is a first year greek student easy to answer question.
Every cliff face has lots of rock debris at its base- especially surrounding the gates of Hell or the gate of Pan where they has a statue of Pan.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the church. The entire church (you are too hung up on government) exists because Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God.
Yes the church has a governing structure, that is a given, but that governance is all based on teh inspired word of God and applying it to the situations that arise in the nearly 2 millenia of church existence.
