Is the Word of God only found in scripture?

[DPMartin]

Is dan 13 part of “all scripture”
Have you read it’s story of susan’s great faith

what are you talking about?

 

[theefaith]

Although in ancient Greek the distinction may have been significant, by NT times the two words were interchangeable. Moreover it would have been inappropriate for Peter to have been called by the feminine petra rather than the masculine petros. In addition there was a word in regular use for stone (lithos – see Jn 19:13)

More importantly Jesus did not call Peter either Petra or Petros but the Aramaic Kephas. (meaning Rock). So the above would have been “you are Kephas, and on this kephas I will build my Church”.

We know this because in John 1:42 Jesus renames Peter from Simon to Kephas (Rock)
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon the son of John; you will be called Kephas”
Renaming someone is always significant in the Bible.

St. Paul refers to Kephas in 8 places in both his first letter to the Corinthians and in his letter to the Galations. For example:
“and that he appeared to Kephas, then to the twelve.” (1Cor 15:5)
“Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to confer with Kephas” (Gal 1:18)
“and when James and Kephas and John, who were acknowledged pillars” (Gal 2:9)

how do you govern a church on a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority of the keys of the kingdom to a confession?

how do you administer a kingdom on a confession?

how do you give the power to bind and loose to a confession?

 

[theefaith]

what are you talking about?

the story of Susana and her great faith and trust in God! Dan 13

oh ya the tradition of men under king James did not put these chapters in the KJV you will have to go to bible gateway and select a real translation of the Bible like douay-rheims

 

[DPMartin]

the story of Susana and her great faith and trust in God! Dan 13

oh ya the tradition of men under king James did not put these chapters in the KJV you will have to go to bible gateway and select a real translation of the Bible like douay-rheims

other than what looks like your distain for men, what's that have to do with the subject at hand.

 

[theefaith]

other than what looks like your distain for men, what's that have to do with the subject at hand.

you fundamentalists Protestant always say flee the tradition of men

 

[theefaith]

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Mungo]

how do you govern a church on a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority of the keys of the kingdom to a confession?

how do you administer a kingdom on a confession?

how do you give the power to bind and loose to a confession?

Exactly. Good questions.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

obedience to what authority?

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


Eph 3: 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1, 1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”

1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,1 John 2:13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

Isa 22:21-22 the prime minister who administer the kingdom under the king in the line of david Lk 1:32-23 has the title father and hold the keys Matt 16:18

Well as the pharisees were never called "father" but rabbi or rabboni if a high level pharisee, the opint is irrelavent. and it is about calling men father in the spiritual sense. If you know not the difference between calling one a father of a race, actual fathers, and calling God the Father- then you should not be commenting here.

John calls fathers, fathers. Once again context matters. ripping verses out of their context is spiritual ignorance.

Equating Marcus with John Mark is dubious at best. we have just anecdotal evidence he may be John Mark. for all we know this Marcu couls actually be Peters son who became a believer and followed His dad by this time.

 

[amigo de christo]

Let all who name the name of Christ depart from false institutions .
Gather with lambs who love the LORD and love truth .

 

[theefaith]

Well as the pharisees were never called "father" but rabbi or rabboni if a high level pharisee, the opint is irrelavent. and it is about calling men father in the spiritual sense. If you know not the difference between calling one a father of a race, actual fathers, and calling God the Father- then you should not be commenting here.

John calls fathers, fathers. Once again context matters. ripping verses out of their context is spiritual ignorance.

Equating Marcus with John Mark is dubious at best. we have just anecdotal evidence he may be John Mark. for all we know this Marcu couls actually be Peters son who became a believer and followed His dad by this time.

All scripture is inspired! Context not so much!
Chapter and verse are also not scripture

the apostles are spiritual fathers
They teach the word of God or the seed the fathers sow

Christ gave the new covenant life to the apostles to impart it to us in baptism
Jn 20:21-23 matt 28:19 Jn 4:1

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All scripture is inspired! Context not so much!
Chapter and verse are also not scripture

the apostles are spiritual fathers
They teach the word of God or the seed the fathers sow

Christ gave the new covenant life to the apostles to impart it to us in baptism
Jn 20:21-23 matt 28:19 Jn 4:1

Without context you have no scripture. do you even know what context means ?!?!?!?!

YOu read Scripture with grave danger upon you if you think it is okay to rip verses out of th epassages they are writtnew in to promote something those verses do not promote. YOu show this danger when you redefine father to make it mean what Rome says it does.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Although in ancient Greek the distinction may have been significant, by NT times the two words were interchangeable. Moreover it would have been inappropriate for Peter to have been called by the feminine petra rather than the masculine petros. In addition there was a word in regular use for stone (lithos – see Jn 19:13)

You have no proof of that, That is pure supposition on yo0ur part.

We in English also have many words to describe stone.

chip, pebble, rock, boulder, ledge, etc.etc. there was and still is a significant difference between Petros and Petra.

Kephas is the Hebrew of Petros which we say Peter. Why are you trying to muddle something so simple?

More importantly Jesus did not call Peter either Petra or Petros but the Aramaic Kephas. (meaning Rock). So the above would have been “you are Kephas, and on this kephas I will build my Church”.

Proof?

But I see that the inspired writers of Scripture were inspired by God in the Greek language they used , to show the signiifcant difference between the name Peter/kephas/petros and the petra Jesus was referring to- namely that Jesus hHimself is the Christ the son of the Living god- that is what teh church is built upon, even as Paul wrote!

 

[Mungo]

You have no proof of that, That is pure supposition on yo0ur part.

We in English also have many words to describe stone.

chip, pebble, rock, boulder, ledge, etc.etc. there was and still is a significant difference between Petros and Petra.

Kephas is the Hebrew of Petros which we say Peter. Why are you trying to muddle something so simple?




Proof?

But I see that the inspired writers of Scripture were inspired by God in the Greek language they used , to show the signiifcant difference between the name Peter/kephas/petros and the petra Jesus was referring to- namely that Jesus hHimself is the Christ the son of the Living god- that is what teh church is built upon, even as Paul wrote!

Kephas is Aramaic. It means rock. It is what Jesus renamed Simon.
John 1:42
He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, “So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas” (which means Peter"[c]).
[c] is footnote: From the word for rock in Aramaic and Greek, respectively
Cephas is a transliteration of the actual word in the Greek text which is Kephas. Strong number 2786

From 2786. Képhas

Strong's Concordance
Képhas: "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Original Word: Κηφᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Képhas
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-fas')
Definition: "a rock", Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Usage: Cephas (Aramaic for rock), the new name given to Simon Peter, the apostle.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of Aramaic origin
Definition
"a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2786: Κεφας

Κεφας, κεφα (Buttmann, 20 (18)), ὁ (Chaldean כֵּיפָא, a rock), Cephas (equivalent to Πέτρος (cf. B. D. (American edition), p. 2459)), the surname of Simon the apostle: John 1:42 (43); 1 Corinthians 1:12; 1 Corinthians 3:22; 1 Corinthians 9:5; 1 Corinthians 15:5; Galatians 2:9; and L T Tr WH also in Galatians 1:18; Galatians 2:11, 14.

Strong's Greek: 2786. Κηφᾶς (Képhas) -- "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter

 

[theefaith]

Without context you have no scripture. do you even know what context means ?!?!?!?!

YOu read Scripture with grave danger upon you if you think it is okay to rip verses out of th epassages they are writtnew in to promote something those verses do not promote. YOu show this danger when you redefine father to make it mean what Rome says it does.

All scripture, even one word!

heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away
Even one word!

 

[Robert Gwin]

1 cor 13:2 not faith alone
1 cor 13:13 the greatest of these is charity not faith alone

Amen to that sir! Fully agree, faith without works is dead. I hope you will enjoy the Convention.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Kephas is Aramaic. It means rock. It is what Jesus renamed Simon.
John 1:42
He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, “So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas” (which means Peter"[c]).
[c] is footnote: From the word for rock in Aramaic and Greek, respectively
Cephas is a transliteration of the actual word in the Greek text which is Kephas. Strong number 2786

From 2786. Képhas

Strong's Concordance
Képhas: "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Original Word: Κηφᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Képhas
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-fas')
Definition: "a rock", Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Usage: Cephas (Aramaic for rock), the new name given to Simon Peter, the apostle.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of Aramaic origin
Definition
"a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2786: Κεφας

Κεφας, κεφα (Buttmann, 20 (18)), ὁ (Chaldean כֵּיפָא, a rock), Cephas (equivalent to Πέτρος (cf. B. D. (American edition), p. 2459)), the surname of Simon the apostle: John 1:42 (43); 1 Corinthians 1:12; 1 Corinthians 3:22; 1 Corinthians 9:5; 1 Corinthians 15:5; Galatians 2:9; and L T Tr WH also in Galatians 1:18; Galatians 2:11, 14.

Strong's Greek: 2786. Κηφᾶς (Képhas) -- "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter

And I agree with all that! But when teh NT was inspired to be written in Koine Greek, they used Peter for Kephas and Jesus used Petra to describe the bedrock on which the church would be built- namely that He is the Christ, the son of the living God!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All scripture, even one word!

heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away
Even one word!

Now if you would only apply that th eScriptures are to be used to compare against what any man or church teaches you would do well.

 

[Mungo]

And I agree with all that! But when teh NT was inspired to be written in Koine Greek, they used Peter for Kephas and Jesus used Petra to describe the bedrock on which the church would be built- namely that He is the Christ, the son of the living God!

Good that you agree.
It shows that Peter was deliberately renamed Kephas (meaning a Rock) by Jesus himself.
Paul's use of the name also shows that Peter was well known by that name, not just Petros.

As I commented earlier in Koine Greek Petros and Petra mean the same.

According to Jimmy Akin "in Attic Greek there was a slight difference in meaning between the two, but in Koine Greek (the dialect of the New Testament) they were synonyms. A place to look this up is D. A. Carson’s commentary on Matthew 16 in the Expositors Bible Commentary. He makes this point very well, and he is a highly-respected Evangelical Bible scholar."
So a highly respected Evangelical Bible scholar says Petra and Petros are synonyms.
What is you Koine Greek like
Are you going to argue with a highly respected Evangelical Bible scholar?

And of course if they weren't the same then Jesus' play on the words would be pointless.

There is another interesting point about Mt 16:18.
It depends on understanding where they were.
Are you interested or just determined to not understand?
Are you seeking the truth?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Good that you agree.
It shows that Peter was deliberately renamed Kephas (meaning a Rock) by Jesus himself.
Paul's use of the name also shows that Peter was well known by that name, not just Petros.

As I commented earlier in Koine Greek Petros and Petra mean the same.

According to Jimmy Akin "in Attic Greek there was a slight difference in meaning between the two, but in Koine Greek (the dialect of the New Testament) they were synonyms. A place to look this up is D. A. Carson’s commentary on Matthew 16 in the Expositors Bible Commentary. He makes this point very well, and he is a highly-respected Evangelical Bible scholar."
So a highly respected Evangelical Bible scholar says Petra and Petros are synonyms.
What is you Koine Greek like
Are you going to argue with a highly respected Evangelical Bible scholar?

And of course if they weren't the same then Jesus' play on the words would be pointless.

There is another interesting point about Mt 16:18.
It depends on understanding where they were.
Are you interested or just determined to not understand?
Are you seeking the truth?

As both the other Apostles and Paul were well versed in koine greek (it was the language of commerce for th eday) depending on who they were talking to they would have used either Petros, or Kephas.

Well I can bring up several Greek scholars who disagree with your Greek Scholar. You goignto disagree with them?

Arnols Fruchtenbaum, M.th. ThD in his four volume work the life of the Messiah.

Alfed Edderseim THD in Life and times of Jesus the Messiah

Strongs concordane
YOungs concordane
Vines Expository Dictionary
Wuest word Studies in teh greek New Testament
Spiros Zodhiates Greek New Testament.

And it is interesting that Strongs and Youngs concordances (both keyed ot loine greek) make a big distinction between these two words.

I do not have Carsons work so I cannot judge why he says they are different in atrtic but synonymous in koine.

 

[Mungo]

As both the other Apostles and Paul were well versed in koine greek (it was the language of commerce for th eday) depending on who they were talking to they would have used either Petros, or Kephas.

Well I can bring up several Greek scholars who disagree with your Greek Scholar. You goignto disagree with them?

Arnols Fruchtenbaum, M.th. ThD in his four volume work the life of the Messiah.

Alfed Edderseim THD in Life and times of Jesus the Messiah

Strongs concordane
YOungs concordane
Vines Expository Dictionary
Wuest word Studies in teh greek New Testament
Spiros Zodhiates Greek New Testament.

And it is interesting that Strongs and Youngs concordances (both keyed ot loine greek) make a big distinction between these two words.

I do not have Carsons work so I cannot judge why he says they are different in atrtic but synonymous in koine.

Kephas is Aramaic. It means rock. It is what Jesus renamed Simon.
John 1:42
He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, “So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas” (which means Peter"[c]).
[c] is footnote: From the word for rock in Aramaic and Greek, respectively
Cephas is a transliteration of the actual word in the Greek text which is Kephas. Strong number 2786

From 2786. Képhas

Strong's Concordance
Képhas: "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Original Word: Κηφᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Képhas
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-fas')
Definition: "a rock", Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Usage: Cephas (Aramaic for rock), the new name given to Simon Peter, the apostle.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of Aramaic origin
Definition
"a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2786: Κεφας

Κεφας, κεφα (Buttmann, 20 (18)), ὁ (Chaldean כֵּיפָא, a rock), Cephas (equivalent to Πέτρος (cf. B. D. (American edition), p. 2459)), the surname of Simon the apostle: John 1:42 (43); 1 Corinthians 1:12; 1 Corinthians 3:22; 1 Corinthians 9:5; 1 Corinthians 15:5; Galatians 2:9; and L T Tr WH also in Galatians 1:18; Galatians 2:11, 14.

Strong's Greek: 2786. Κηφᾶς (Képhas) -- "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter

You are particularly ignoring John 1:42
He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, “So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas” (which means Peter"[c]).
[c] is footnote: From the word for rock in Aramaic and Greek, respectively.

Jesus renamed Simon Kephas.
Kephas is Aramaic for Rock not stone.

John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and according to you "well versed in koine greek", says Kephas (Rock) is translated into Greek as Petros (Peter). If Petros meant stone then the Holy Spirit got it wrong.