The Rapture: Too Good to Be True?

[ewq1938]

Saying that the 6th Seal is the Second Coming is the truth. Not butchering Scripture at all.

It's misinterpreting scripture. The 6th seal is not the second coming but it does speak of the second coming just like here:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Just because the second coming is described does not mean it happens at that time!

 

[ewq1938]

Making the Sixth Seal; Revelation 6:12, happen at the Return; Revelation 19:11, is serious error.

You failed to explain why and explain what the 6th seal is talking about.

 

[Timtofly]

So is the 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial about the day of Christ's 2nd coming, which means the LAST DAY of this present world. And that is also the DAY when Jesus gathers His faithful saints, and NOT before. All this is written in God's Word and is easy to show.

One who reads Revelation as if all the events happen in the order John was given them and wrote them down, will be in confusion. That is Christ's doing by setting up His Revelation that way, to TRAP those who refuse to STUDY His way, asking Him.

Not only that, but even with Revelation showing that Christ Jesus ONLY is worthy to open the Seals points to the requirement that ALL His servants go through HIM to understand His Book of Revelation! But what do most brethren do? They go right to men's traditions and doctrines and rely on them instead. It's sickening what the deceived do to themselves by not obeying the simplicity of God's Word!

The last day of this present world is after the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

Just because the second coming is described does not mean it happens at that time!

Just because Revelation seems obvious, does not mean that it is.

 

[Keraz]

You failed to explain why and explain what the 6th seal is talking about.

I did explain why - the Sixth Seal will commence all the end time events.
Revelation 6:12-17. Isaiah 24 and 100 other Prophesies explain how the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath is going to happen.

 

[ewq1938]

I did explain why - the Sixth Seal will commence all the end time events.

Ok, you don't understand it. It commences nothing at all. None of the seals do. They are just information of future events.

 

[Keraz]

Ok, you don't understand it. It commences nothing at all. None of the seals do. They are just information of future events.

How anyone could think that is incredible.
ALL the prophesied events describe things which must take place in their correct sequence.
With the 7 Seals, it is clear that the first five Seals are open now and we experience their effects. Wars, famines and plagues. Proved by all the Christian martyrs since Stephen, whose souls are kept under the Altar in heaven.

The next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal, Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. It could happen any time soon.

 

[ewq1938]

How anyone could think that is incredible.

I understand but it's a very advanced understanding.

 

[Timtofly]

I understand but it's a very advanced understanding.

So advanced, nothing happens?

They are physical activities and events. The 4 beasts even point that out. Each one says: "Come and see".

John was supposed to come and see, "nothing"?

 

[Keraz]

I understand but it's a very advanced understanding.

Advanced to where?
Into the rabbit hole of confusion and false teachings.

To make the plainly stated effects of the 7 Seals being opened into just a non event, requires a very solid and convincing, scripturally supported proof.
As that isn't forthcoming, I will keep on believing in their literal fulfillment. As the first five Seals already have been.

 

[bbyrd009]

Is the Rapture a false hope? Experiencing the End Times without the Rapture for the redeemed would be like Noah without a boat, or Lot not getting rescued by the Lord’s angels. This is good news for us!

The Rapture: Too Good to Be True?

i love rapture doctrine, as it illuminates the hypocrites/eschatologists

 

[ewq1938]

Advanced to where?
Into the rabbit hole of confusion and false teachings.

To make the plainly stated effects of the 7 Seals being opened into just a non event, requires a very solid and convincing, scripturally supported proof.
As that isn't forthcoming, I will keep on believing in their literal fulfillment. As the first five Seals already have been.

That's the non-advanced, common understanding but it is incorrect. The very fact that Jesus cannot return twice proves there is one second coming and it's either at the 7th trump or the 6th seal. I know it's the 7th trump.

 

[Keraz]

That's the non-advanced, common understanding but it is incorrect. The very fact that Jesus cannot return twice proves there is one second coming and it's either at the 7th trump or the 6th seal. I know it's the 7th trump.

Nothing in the Prophesies about the Sixth Seal or the 7th Trumpet, say Jesus will Return then.
The actual Return is described in Revelation 19:11-16
In verse 15, it mentions the 'winepress of God'. That refers back to the prophecy of Revelation 14:17-20, which also refers to the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. ONE Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. As Luke 121:35 says; that great Day will come upon everyone, the whole world over.
The other events of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, are directed specifically at the ungodly peoples.

 

[ewq1938]

Nothing in the Prophesies about the Sixth Seal or the 7th Trumpet, say Jesus will Return then.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The 7th trump is the last trump, it is when the resurrection and rapture take place which takes place during the second coming.

 

[Keraz]

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Proof that 1 Cor 15:50-56 is about the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium, is how only then is Death no more. Revelation 21:4

The 7th trump is the last trump, it is when the resurrection and rapture take place which takes place during the second coming.

The Last Trumpet call is to bring all the people who have ever lived. to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15
That the 7th Trumpet is not the last one or the one when Jesus Returns, 1 Thess 4:16, is clear from their context.

I repeat: Nothing in the Prophesies about the Sixth Seal or the Seventh Trumpet, say that Jesus will Return then.

 

[Dave Watchman]

In the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25), one cannot... buy the Oil. The Oil in that parable represents The Holy Spirit. Remember about Simon of Acts 8 who had been a sorcerer, that when he saw The Holy Spirit perform miracles through the Apostles, Simon offered money to buy it, but was rebuked and told to repent.

I know. I have heard that the "oil' is symbolic for the Holy Spirit. Like the oil that feeds the lamp-stands in Zachariah 4: "By my Spirit. (Oil is a good representation of the Holy Spirit)

But I still think to be careful making doctrine out of a parable, even a very beautiful one like the 10 virgins.

You said:

In the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25), one cannot... buy the Oil.

But twice in that parable they were told to "buy, they were going to "buy.

"But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut.​

They were told to "buy" oil, going to "buy" oil, from the dealers, right before the Bridegroom came.

So another takeaway from the parable might be that just before Jesus comes, look to buy oil on the commodity exchange.

(This could actually be another indicator that we are near the second coming)

In early 2020 during the Covid lock-downs, WTI crude oil went negative on the June contract for the first time ever, since there were modern markets of exchange. Supertankers were moored offshore used as storage containers because the refineries were full.

This was the most attractive time in the history of the markets to "buy" oil. I, a wise Virgin, seized the initiative and began accumulating two depressed oil producers, BTE.T and CPG.T. The number of shares that I was able to get on sale, were at one time worth, when WTI was previously at $147.00/ BBl, over a million dollars.

Now this door is closed. Lock-downs are over. Demand has resumed. Russian output is shut-in. As summer driving season approaches, I say to the foolish virgins: "there will not be enough oil for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy oil for yourselves.’

I told friends this was my hedge on the Apocalypse. If I'm wrong and the end is NOT nigh, I can console myself with being rich.

But truth be told, my excitement is not earthly gain, but in an expectation of seeing the appearance of our Lord, and in laying up for myself treasures in heaven.

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. - Jesus​

 

[ewq1938]

Proof that 1 Cor 15:50-56 is about the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium, is how only then is Death no more. Revelation 21:4

The Last Trumpet call is to bring all the people who have ever lived. to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15
That the 7th Trumpet is not the last one or the one when Jesus Returns, 1 Thess 4:16, is clear from their context.

I repeat: Nothing in the Prophesies about the Sixth Seal or the Seventh Trumpet, say that Jesus will Return then.

The bible tells us the second coming is at the 7th and last trump.

 

[Davy]

The last day of this present world is after the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

Yes, but starting with Jesus future return, the last day of this PRESENT EXISTING world of flesh will end on the day of His coming.

Jesus taught in John 5:28-29 that on the day of His coming, ALL in the graves will hear His voice and come forth, those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". Thus ALL... the 'dead' are raised at the resurrection on the day of Jesus' coming, and they are raised to the RESURRECTION BODY, WHICH IS A "SPIRITUAL BODY" per Apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 15).

And then at the SAME time, ALL those still alive on earth (including the wicked), on the "last trump" (7th Trumpet), are CHANGED at the "twinkling of an eye" also to the SPIRITUAL BODY that Paul taught. So EVERYONE will be in spiritual bodies to start Jesus' future 1,000 years reign.

And in 2 Peter 3:10, Peter showed the day of Christ's coming is when God's consuming fire will BURN MAN'S WORKS OFF THIS EARTH. That is another reason why ALL will be in the "spiritual body" Paul taught on that day.

But the new heavens and a new earth will not be yet on the day of Christ's return, but after His future 1,000 years reign once Satan, hell, and death go into the future "lake of fire" as written. Yet, even for Christ's future 1,000 years reign, THERE WILL BE SOME EARTH CHANGES, like His building the Millennium sanctuary in the middle east, and the return of GOD'S RIVER per Genesis 2 and Ezekiel 47.

 

[Davy]

I know. I have heard that the "oil' is symbolic for the Holy Spirit. Like the oil that feeds the lamp-stands in Zachariah 4: "By my Spirit. (Oil is a good representation of the Holy Spirit)

But I still think to be careful making doctrine out of a parable, even a very beautiful one like the 10 virgins.

You said:​

But twice in that parable they were told to "buy, they were going to "buy.

"But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut.​

They were told to "buy" oil, going to "buy" oil, from the dealers, right before the Bridegroom came.

One cannot... buy it. So their being told... to go 'buy' from the sellers actually serves as a mocking to the five foolish virgins for believing... that it could be bought! Understand about the 'hireling' of John 10 which Lord Jesus warned us about. The "hireling" preaches for money, and when the wolves creep in, the hireling runs, not protecting the sheep, because he is a hireling. Those are who the 'sellers' represent in the ten virgins parable. They had been listening to the "hireling" instead of listening to Lord Jesus in the simplicity of His written Word.

Surely you've seen the prosperity preachers on TV, always asking for money. I recall one preacher telling the congregation to come down and put dollar bills on the podium steps, teaching that God will make you wealthy for doing that! I also remember Oral Roberts locking himself up in his space needle and threatening to not come down until people donated 8 million dollars!

So this idea should be easy... to figure out why the five foolish virgins WENT TO THE SELLERS TO BUY, and found out they COULD NOT BUY the Oil.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, but starting with Jesus future return, the last day of this PRESENT EXISTING world of flesh will end on the day of His coming.

Jesus taught in John 5:28-29 that on the day of His coming, ALL in the graves will hear His voice and come forth, those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". Thus ALL... the 'dead' are raised at the resurrection on the day of Jesus' coming, and they are raised to the RESURRECTION BODY, WHICH IS A "SPIRITUAL BODY" per Apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 15).

And then at the SAME time, ALL those still alive on earth (including the wicked), on the "last trump" (7th Trumpet), are CHANGED at the "twinkling of an eye" also to the SPIRITUAL BODY that Paul taught. So EVERYONE will be in spiritual bodies to start Jesus' future 1,000 years reign.

And in 2 Peter 3:10, Peter showed the day of Christ's coming is when God's consuming fire will BURN MAN'S WORKS OFF THIS EARTH. That is another reason why ALL will be in the "spiritual body" Paul taught on that day.

But the new heavens and a new earth will not be yet on the day of Christ's return, but after His future 1,000 years reign once Satan, hell, and death go into the future "lake of fire" as written. Yet, even for Christ's future 1,000 years reign, THERE WILL BE SOME EARTH CHANGES, like His building the Millennium sanctuary in the middle east, and the return of GOD'S RIVER per Genesis 2 and Ezekiel 47.

You started out this post with an error. John 5:28-29 does not say "day". It says "hour". That hour came on the Cross. That hour has been ongoing for 1992 years. That hour will not be over until death itself is defeated. Then there will be no more people to call out of death.