The Rapture: Too Good to Be True?

[GRACE ambassador]

Right.

What is TOJT?

Time Of Jacob's Trouble. Thanks for the inquiry...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Do you reject the two resurrections as well?

Depends, which two are you referring to?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Depends, which two are you referring to?

That would be the first resurrection, the resurrection of the just, and the last resurrection, the great white throne judgment.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

That would be the first resurrection, the resurrection of the just, and the last resurrection, the great white throne judgment.

No, no rejection of those.

 

[michaelvpardo]

No, no rejection of those.

So would you say that those who claim there is only one resurrection are deceived or in error?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

So would you say that those who claim there is only one resurrection are deceived or in error?

Yes, agree with that.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

So would you say that those who claim there is only one resurrection are deceived or in error?

Yes, agree with that.

Precious friend, guess this study reply to another thread would Also go here,
confirming my answer to your Great Question, eh?"

op: ONLY believers are resurrected? (ONE resurrection?)

Well, Precious friend, we do know these, Correct?:

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die,
but after this the judgment" (Heb_9:27)
​

Doesn't sound like "first death" is the judgment, which God separates, and
says it occurs after death? Unless the first death is annihilation?:

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth
Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and
said, father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus,
that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue;

for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, son, remember
that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise
Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."
(Luk_16:23-35)​

Seems That Christ's Truth is that UNbelievers are not annihilated, but are
"in torment, on hold" awaiting:

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell
delivered up the dead which were in them: and [Then?] they were
Judged every man according to their works." (Rev_20:13)​

If "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them" is not a
"resurrection" then pray tell, what Should we call it?:

Joh_5:29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good,
unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto:​

the resurrection of damnation." Correct?:
​

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given
unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for The Word of God, and which had not worshipped
the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a
thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were
finished.

This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the
first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall
be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."
(Rev_20:4-6)
​

Wait! God Said there are TWO resurrections, same as John_5:29?

Is there a Second Death after the Second resurrection of UNbelievers?:

"And I saw a Great White Throne, and Him That Sat on it, from Whose
Face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place
for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;

and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is
the book of life:and the dead were Judged out of those things which
were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell
delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were Judged every
man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake
of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in
the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev_20:11-15)​

I apologize IF I am missing something? Also, IF UNbelievers are annihilated,
then How Does The Just And Righteous Judge, The LORD JESUS CHRIST:

"Judge them according to their works"? Would not that be by "degrees" - some
have Worse Punishment than others, opposite of "believers have rewards, but
some do not"?

Love a Good Bible study, don't you?
----------------------------------------
Disclaimer: I believe these are "prophetic" and have nothing to do with
The "Revelation Of The Mystery" for us, The Body Of Christ, Under GRACE, Today...

GRACE And Peace...

 

[michaelvpardo]

Precious friend, guess this study reply to another thread would Also go here,
confirming my answer to your Great Question, eh?"

op: ONLY believers are resurrected? (ONE resurrection?)

Well, Precious friend, we do know these, Correct?:

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die,
but after this the judgment" (Heb_9:27)
​

Doesn't sound like "first death" is the judgment, which God separates, and
says it occurs after death? Unless the first death is annihilation?:

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth
Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and
said, father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus,
that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue;

for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, son, remember
that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise
Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."
(Luk_16:23-35)​

Seems That Christ's Truth is that UNbelievers are not annihilated, but are
"in torment, on hold" awaiting:

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell
delivered up the dead which were in them: and [Then?] they were
Judged every man according to their works." (Rev_20:13)​

If "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them" is not a
"resurrection" then pray tell, what Should we call it?:

Joh_5:29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good,
unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto:​

the resurrection of damnation." Correct?:
​

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given
unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for The Word of God, and which had not worshipped
the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a
thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were
finished.

This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the
first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall
be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."
(Rev_20:4-6)​

Wait! God Said there are TWO resurrections, same as John_5:29?

Is there a Second Death after the Second resurrection of UNbelievers?:

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him That Sat on it, from Whose
Face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place
for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;

and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is
the book of life:and the dead were Judged out of those things which
were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell
delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were Judged every
man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake
of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in
the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev_20:11-15)​

I apologize IF I am missing something? Also, IF UNbelievers are annihilated,
then How Does The Just And Righteous Judge, The LORD JESUS CHRIST:

"Judge them according to their works"? Would not that be by "degrees" - some
have Worse Punishment than others, opposite of "believers have rewards, but
some do not"?

Love a Good Bible study, don't you?
----------------------------------------
Disclaimer: I believe these are "prophetic" and have nothing to do with
The "Revelation Of The Mystery" for us, The Body Of Christ, Under GRACE, Today...

GRACE And Peace...

I'll say it again.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. Revelation 20:4-5

Verse 5 does not pertain to Christians. Jesus Himself said that those who have believed Him have passed out of judgment.
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
So, again my question is how do the dead live again without a resurrection to judgment?

 

[Davy]

The confusion by men's doctrines about the Revelation 20:5 "dead" that lived not again until the thousand years were over, comes from NOT listening to Lord Jesus and His Apostles.

The John 5:28-29 Scripture Jesus revealed BOTH RESURRECTIONS, the "resurrection of life" AND the "resurrection of damnation" happen at the same time of Christ's coming...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Does that mean ALL the dead are resurrected on the day of Christ's coming? Yep!!!

Since BOTH resurrection types happen on that day of Jesus' coming, then it has to mean what for the wicked dead?

It means... they are raised to the "spiritual body" also on that day, which body is the body of the world to come. Apostle Paul well explained this in 1 Corinthians 15 about what type of body the resurrection is, so WHY do so many brethren act like they've never heard of that before???

So since the "spiritual body" is ALSO what the wicked dead are raised to with their "resurrection of damnation", then does that mean the "spiritual body" DOES NOT MEAN AUTOMATIC SALVATION IN CHRIST?? Yes, that's right!

What then gives one to be of the "resurrection of life" in Christ Jesus?

1 Cor 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Most preachers don't like to include the "resurrection of damnation" in that above group, but SORRY, Apostle Paul did include them. And the detail is further below.


53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
KJV

Just as it is required to be 'born again' of water and by The Spirit to be given eternal life through Faith on Jesus Christ, likewise that belief is required in order for the SOUL to put on IMMORTALITY. Those are 4 separate Greek words in that 53rd verse, each with a different meaning.

General Resurrection -- "corruptible" must put on "incorruption". BOTH resurrection types will put on the body of "incorruption", which is the "image of the heavenly" or "spiritual body" that Paul taught in that Chapter. That is the resurrection body type for ALL souls that manifests when Jesus comes and ends this present world.

But to be of the "first resurrection", and reign with Jesus for the 1,000 years, a believer on Him MUST ALSO have their mortal soul put on immortality! Only that way will one never be subject to the "second death".

In Summary...

On the Day of Christ's Return:
A. The wicked dead = raised only to the "spiritual body", but still with a liable to die mortal soul without Christ.

A. The wicked still alive = 'changed'... to the "spiritual body", but still with liable to die mortal soul without Christ.

B. The 'asleep' saints Jesus brings with Him = the "first resurrection" in Christ, raised to the "spiritual body" AND their mortal souls having put on immortality in Christ Jesus, and will reign with Him.

B. The saints still alive on earth = changed... to the "spiritual body", AND their mortal souls putting on immortality, also of the "first resurrection" that reign with Jesus.


In the above respect then, HOW do we rightly interpret the Revelation 20:5 passage about the "dead" not living again until the 1,000 years are over?

Firstly, HOW are they dead? Well, if they are RAISED then that certainly means their flesh had already died, so HOW and WHY would they still be called "the dead"? Didn't you guys pay attention when Lord Jesus gave examples of His metaphor about the spiritually dead?

Matt 23:27-28
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
KJV

Luke 11:44
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
KJV

Why would Jesus compare the blind unbelieving scribes and Pharisees with the dead, and specifically because of what was INSIDE them?

Jesus was pointing to their MORTAL SOULS inside their flesh still being dead, because of their NOT believing on Him unto eternal Life. They were NOT "born again" in Christ, and thus STILL subject to the future "second death"!!!

Understanding this means knowing who the "dead" in Revelation 20 really are. They represent ALL the UNSAVED that go through Christ's future 1,000 years reign with His elect. Those either never heard The Gospel, or were deceived by the devil and thus blinded away from The Gospel (like Paul showed in Romans 11 about his brethren the unbelieving Jews).

This is Why... the Book of Life is opened at the Great White Throne Judgement, to see if any of their names are written in it, and are thus saved!

This is WHY Lord Jesus mentioned the idea of a FIRST resurrection unto Life. It's because those who BELIEVE ON JESUS during the 1,000 years, after being tested when Satan is loosed one final time, those saved will be ANOTHER RESURRECTION UNTO LIFE IN JESUS.

 

[Timtofly]

If that were true, then it would mean you are completely IGNORANT of the Zechariah 14 Scripture which shows the 'battle' on the "day of the Lord" that He fights involves His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives, where He ascended from per Acts 1! So you ought to quit playing around, and check your preachers out, or at least open up Zechariah 14 and READ it!



The 42 months of the reign of the "dragon" is about the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (Daniel 9:27). It is also the 42 months the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city, per Revelation 11, on the 6TH TRUMPET - 2ND WOE period. It is also the 1260 days God's two witnesses are given to prophesy against the beast in Jerusalem before they are killed. Jesus comes on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd woe per that Chapter.

So go ahead, PROVE that Jesus does not come, with God's cup of wrath, on the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. You like to do a lot of mouthing, so back it up with Scripture!

The Second Coming is the 6th Seal. Revelation 6:12-17

There is no verse stating the Second Coming is at the 7th Trumpet. There is no verse stating the Second Coming is at the 7th Vial. You show the Scripture that you have to add words to the text to get it to work. The 6th Seal is when Jesus touches down feet first on the Mt. Of Olives in Zechariah 14. Show me in Revelation where Jerusalem is attacked, and Jesus lands on the Mt. Of Olives to stop the attack.

 

[Davy]

The Second Coming is the 6th Seal. Revelation 6:12-17

There is no verse stating the Second Coming is at the 7th Trumpet. There is no verse stating the Second Coming is at the 7th Vial.

The 7th Trumpet declaration in Revelation 11 does not need... a passage saying Jesus had come by the time all kingdoms of this world had become those of The Father and His Christ. IT IS UNDERSTOOD. And furthermore, those kingdoms becoming God's at that point isn't all the DEFINITE parameters shown there that Jesus HAD COME...

Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.'
KJV

Rev 11:18-19
18 And the nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
KJV

Those who try... to deny those parameters in red above make themselves look very, very silly! A 2nd grader can read the above and understand that's about Jesus having returned.

 

[Timtofly]

The 7th Trumpet declaration in Revelation 11 does not need... a passage saying Jesus had come by the time all kingdoms of this world had become those of The Father and His Christ. IT IS UNDERSTOOD. And furthermore, those kingdoms becoming God's at that point isn't all the DEFINITE parameters shown there that Jesus HAD COME...

Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.'
KJV

Rev 11:18-19
18 And the nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
KJV

Those who try... to deny those parameters in red above make themselves look very, very silly! A 2nd grader can read the above and understand that's about Jesus having returned.

I agree. Jesus already came and was on earth at the 6th Seal. Still on earth at the 7th Trumpet.

 

[Davy]

I agree. Jesus already came and was on earth at the 6th Seal. Still on earth at the 7th Trumpet.

You just like to make it up as you go, don't ya?

You're not serious about keeping God's Word as written, otherwise you wouldn't butcher it like you do.

What you suggested above is that on the 6th Seal about the day of Jesus' future coming, that means He is already returned and on earth in ALL the Revelation Scripture following that 6th Seal. That idea is LUDICROUS!

 

[Timtofly]

You just like to make it up as you go, don't ya?

You're not serious about keeping God's Word as written, otherwise you wouldn't butcher it like you do.

What you suggested above is that on the 6th Seal about the day of Jesus' future coming, that means He is already returned and on earth in ALL the Revelation Scripture following that 6th Seal. That idea is LUDICROUS!

I guess eventually you will get used to that alledged "LUDICROUS". I don't butcher, cut, and paste, like 555, 666, or 777.

 

[n2thelight]

Is the Rapture a false hope? Experiencing the End Times without the Rapture for the redeemed would be like Noah without a boat, or Lot not getting rescued by the Lord’s angels. This is good news for us!

The Rapture: Too Good to Be True?

The rapture teaching will lead one straight to satan ,the virgin will become a whore (except for the Elect) , really think about that

 

[n2thelight]

Why would the days need to be shortened because of the Elect ?

 

[n2thelight]

Do you not understand that satan comes before Christ ,have ye not read that by PEACE he shall destroy

 

[n2thelight]

Were the Israelites not protected during the plagues of Egypt , right in the mist of it all ? Do you not see those same plagues in the Book of Revelations (except one)?

 

[n2thelight]

You think the tribulation of satan is all about death and destruction, thinking with you flesh , however that's not the case ,it's all about deception .

 

[n2thelight]

Understand the verse below

Matthew 24:19 "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
You err if you think the below is about having children during the end
Think of it this way , if your husband went away for a period of time came back and you had a child , how would he feel?