How to go to Hell by trying to be good.

[Michiah-Imla]

@Blue Dragonfly's

You just want to indoctrinate me with your tradition.

Show scripture and why YOU believe what you believe.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

What do you make of verses like 1 John 3:10 that says,

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

Ask yourself this, keeping the necessity of message context in mind.

If, as we're told in 1st Corinthians 2, the natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned, how does that natural man ''doeth righteousness'' ?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

@Blue Dragonfly's

You just want to indoctrinate me with your tradition.

Show scripture and why YOU believe what you believe.

Untrue. I can't call you to understand the gospel. Only God can.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Untrue. I can't call you to understand the gospel. Only God can.

I showed scriptures.

You reject the holy scriptures.

You cannot hear them to even begin to understand them.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I showed scriptures.

You reject the holy scriptures.

You cannot hear them to even begin to understand them.

That doesn't work.
Have a good day.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Not according to Jesus, but you have different opinion.

There are no born again in Hell, and there are no Christ Rejectors (never born again) in Heaven .

Do you have scriptural proof sir? Was that the first time that you had heard that Jesus went to hell?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm with you, BH. I don't really get it, either.

To me, saying you (plural) "believe" in Jesus without practicing what Jesus taught, is like telling someone you love them, without showing them you love them. Someone could tell me they love me till the cows come home, but those words are worthless without action.

I agree with you on this point, my friend.

But that action has to come from the heart, and not done because we figure that if we do enough "good works", that God will "owe" us Heaven. Again, it's like a man (for example) doing a few nice things for a woman, all under the guise that she "owes" him her life.

Of course works come from the heart. Every action, word, or work comes from the heart (whether it be good or evil).

Jesus said, “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.” (Luke 6:45).

So it depends on whether one’s heart is good or evil. We shall know them by type of treasure or fruit they bring forth that determines they are evil or good.

Matthew 7:18-20 KJV
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

As for salvation:

I believe the Bible teaches there are two aspects of salvation that we need to be concerned with.

#1. We need to first be saved by God’s grace through faith without works (Which is in our Initial Salvation) (Ephesians 2:8–9).

#2. We need to then abide in the Sanctification of the Spirit (to live holy) and believe the truth. For God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13). For if we put to death the misdeeds of the body, we shall live (Romans 8:13); And “….he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9). Follow after holiness without which no man see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). We are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service (Romans 12:1).​

As for works:

This is a part of our Sanctification in living a holy life by God’s power (after we are saved by God’s grace). Being fruitful and living holy should be a continual state that we must abide in until the end of our lives.

We must be faithful over a few things in this life or we are not going to enter the joy of the Lord. For the unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness.

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

Grace gives us the ability to do the work (See 1 Corinthians 15:10, Titus 2:11-12).

This is faith that works by love (Galatians 5:6)

In fact, grace is love (John 3:16), and moves us to love. For the woman who could not stop kissing Jesus’ feet was forgiven much and therefore she loved very much (See: Luke 7:36-47).

 

[robert derrick]

-
Perfectionism, is a self effort. And you dont go to heaven or become a Child of God by trying to be good or perfect.

Trying to be good enough for God to accept, is no different than the false teaching of "enduring to the end", to try to claw your way into heaven by SELF EFFORT.

All of THAT, is works based Cross rejection. ITs LEGALISM.

So, Paul teaches that we are to become : "the fullness of the Stature of Christ"., and that we can become "as many as be perfect". And this is not found by trying to be good enough., or trying to be like Christ., as that is just more SELF EFFORT FAILURE.

Hell is filled with water baptized religious people who would say..>"But i tried to be good enough for God to accept, and i always tried to be like Jesus... all my Life."
= Christ says to them...."Depart from me i never Knew you"....and that is why they are in hell.
They tried to be good enough for God to accept, and that is not how you go to heaven.
God only accepts you based on the Holy ONE who IS GOOD ENOUGH, and died for you so that by His Sacrifice, God will have YOU.

You Go to Heaven by this.....>Jesus Said...>"You must be BORN AGAIN"< as that is God giving you His Righteousness and re-creating you to be a "new Creation in Christ".
This is why Paul tells us that what only matters is the "new Creation", and all this other SELF EFFORT, is "DUNG"....as God does not accept anything we do, to accept us.
He accepts us based on what God as Christ on The Cross has PROVIDED, and that is the Blood Atonement....that is "THE GIFT OF SALVATiON".

Paul is teaching to become YIELDED, .. no longer trying to WORK or PERFORM for God to try to EARN His Love and Acceptance and Forgiveness.
To be YIELDED to the understanding of God making you righteous based on "the GIFT of Righteousness", as the only reason you become a SON/Daughter of God.
The power found there to live the holy life is as Paul teaches : Christ lives in me, it is not I who live"... = it is not by my SELF EFFORT, but by the Spirit of GOD in me ...= who empowers my Holiness and my Discipleship.
As that MIND and REAL FAITH>....is the Power of Christ, found.
That is how you stop being the sinning and confessing ..>"apart from me you can do NOTHING"< which is Christ explaining that when you try to be a Christian by performance, you are shutting off His Living Through you that IS ..."Christ always gives me the VICTORY"... over the flesh, the world, and the devil.

The one thing of course missing from all these words, is actually not sinning.

OSAS fills pages of really great talk about being 'gifted' and 'made' righteous and full of faith, yada yada, but in the end as the old lady in the commercial used to say, "Where's the beef?"

There is none. And so, all these words here say one simple thing: Behold! Stop trying not to sin! That is your salvation O Israel!

And that's it. The sinning stays, it's just the trying not to that ends.

They don't preach stop trying to repent, and just repent already, but they are actually now teach just stop trying to repent, because you're going to sin anyway, and so save yourself from all the aggravation of trying not to.

Of course, to deny this is true, then all they need do, is say the end of this teaching is actually repenting of sinning and doing God's righteousness instead.

The OSAS message used to be, Go on to sin some more. Now they've upped the ante into, And stop trying not to.

Incredible.

 

[robert derrick]

-
Perfectionism, is a self effort. And you dont go to heaven or become a Child of God by trying to be good or perfect.

Trying to be good enough for God to accept, is no different than the false teaching of "enduring to the end", to try to claw your way into heaven by SELF EFFORT.

All of THAT, is works based Cross rejection. ITs LEGALISM.

So, Paul teaches that we are to become : "the fullness of the Stature of Christ"., and that we can become "as many as be perfect". And this is not found by trying to be good enough., or trying to be like Christ., as that is just more SELF EFFORT FAILURE.

Hell is filled with water baptized religious people who would say..>"But i tried to be good enough for God to accept, and i always tried to be like Jesus... all my Life."
= Christ says to them...."Depart from me i never Knew you"....and that is why they are in hell.
They tried to be good enough for God to accept, and that is not how you go to heaven.
God only accepts you based on the Holy ONE who IS GOOD ENOUGH, and died for you so that by His Sacrifice, God will have YOU.

You Go to Heaven by this.....>Jesus Said...>"You must be BORN AGAIN"< as that is God giving you His Righteousness and re-creating you to be a "new Creation in Christ".
This is why Paul tells us that what only matters is the "new Creation", and all this other SELF EFFORT, is "DUNG"....as God does not accept anything we do, to accept us.
He accepts us based on what God as Christ on The Cross has PROVIDED, and that is the Blood Atonement....that is "THE GIFT OF SALVATiON".

Paul is teaching to become YIELDED, .. no longer trying to WORK or PERFORM for God to try to EARN His Love and Acceptance and Forgiveness.
To be YIELDED to the understanding of God making you righteous based on "the GIFT of Righteousness", as the only reason you become a SON/Daughter of God.
The power found there to live the holy life is as Paul teaches : Christ lives in me, it is not I who live"... = it is not by my SELF EFFORT, but by the Spirit of GOD in me ...= who empowers my Holiness and my Discipleship.
As that MIND and REAL FAITH>....is the Power of Christ, found.
That is how you stop being the sinning and confessing ..>"apart from me you can do NOTHING"< which is Christ explaining that when you try to be a Christian by performance, you are shutting off His Living Through you that IS ..."Christ always gives me the VICTORY"... over the flesh, the world, and the devil.

The devil tells Christians to stop resisting him, and those who agree and make a pact of peace with him, teach OSAS to others to do the same.

Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves.

All their words about righteousness is 'made righteousness' only, not doing it.

Like mobsters, OSAS is for made-men in christian religion, but without the doing required by mobsters.

OSAS is all smoky love-talk about the cross, with no deeds to prove it:

And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

They are all ready to go to war for salvation by faith alone, and stop trying to do otherwise, And if anyone dares preach actually doing righteousness to them, and not just baby-talk about being 'made' righteous, then the fangs come out:

And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ask yourself this, keeping the necessity of message context in mind.

What context in John’s 1st epistle defends your belief that you can sin and still be saved by a belief alone in Jesus?
I see nothing of the sort in John’s first epistle.

If, as we're told in 1st Corinthians 2, the natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned, how does that natural man ''doeth righteousness'' ?

This becomes your mindless mantra without you having to prove anything in that you are correct. We are to preach the Word, and we are to correct, and rebuke. You are not really doing that. You are just quoting verses out of context. When you read verses like 1 Corinthians 2:14, you should really understand the errors that the Corinthians were involved in to understand the full scope of why Paul said what he did in 1 Corinthians 2:14 instead of just mindlessly thinking it defends your very thoughts or the thoughts of Protestants.

For example: In 1 Corinthians 3:3, the Corinthians were justifying the sins of strife and envy. Galatians 5:19-21 mentions the sins of strife and envy and it says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Granted later the Corinthian believers had repented (sought forgiveness with the Lord Jesus - of which we read about in 2 Corinthians), but the problem here is that you are not even aware of this and you are just ripping a verse out of the Bible to fit your own personal belief you prefer and you are not reading 1 Corinthians 2:14 in context.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm with you, BH. I don't really get it, either.

To me, saying you (plural) "believe" in Jesus without practicing what Jesus taught, is like telling someone you love them, without showing them you love them. Someone could tell me they love me till the cows come home, but those words are worthless without action.

But that action has to come from the heart, and not done because we figure that if we do enough "good works", that God will "owe" us Heaven. Again, it's like a man (for example) doing a few nice things for a woman, all under the guise that she "owes" him her life.

Faith and/or 'belief' plus works go hand-in-hand. I can't be on my knees in church every week, saying, "I believe! I believe! I believe!", and then, the moment I leave church, curse at my neighbor for cutting me off in the church parking lot! I can't sit in a pew each week, and think I've done my "duty", all the while thinking, "Geez, this preacher is monotonous! We'll never get out of here before the game starts!" I can't pass a homeless guy on the street and think to myself, "Why doesn't he just get a friggin' job?"...or give the guy a dollar while I'm with someone else, thinking that the person I'm with will think how 'nice' I am.

And I agree, that talking about works/deeds is spread out all through the NT. Romans 2:5,6 in particular comes to mind: "By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just Judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works:" And Revelation 20:13. And a whole bunch of other verses that most Christians can find, without me having to post them.

If works/deeds are so unimportant, why are these and other verses in the Bible in the first place? Even Christ practiced works as an example to us!

To me, saying that all we have to do is "believe" without practicing that belief is way too overconfident.

Also, doesn't the Bible warn us about being too overconfident of our own salvation?

I don’t think it is about doing enough works to be saved. If we sin, all our previous righteousness will be undone whereby we have to confess and forsake such sins. Works of faith also needs to be included in living holy. For in Matthew 7:22-23, we learn that those who did wonderful works in His name were told to depart from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself because they also worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin. So they did good works. That was not the problem for these believers. The problem is that they also justified sin on some level. They worked iniquity (sin).

We are saved by God’s grace, but faith is how we access God’s grace. I see faith as like a two sided coin.

On first side of the coin: Faith starts off as a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior and or in believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day (Which is a process of salvation without works).

But on the second side of the coin: I believe faith continues on in our journey with the Lord in doing the work of faith and or in living holy (as a part our Sanctification). For everything in our Bible is a part of the faith. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). So if God’s Word (the Bible) tells me to do certain works, that is a part of my faith. If God’s Word (the Bible) tells me to live holy and put away sin, and keep myself unspotted from the world, that is also a part of my faith.

Folks tend to have a problem with thinking that if I have to do works, I am earning my salvation or that they must do enough good works to be saved. That’s the wrong kind of thinking or approach. Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches that Grace by faith without works is how we are first saved when we accepted the Lord Jesus in the beginning or start of our faith. But after we are saved, God does require us to do good works, and to live holy as a part of His plan of salvation for our lives. This is not really just doing a checklist of good works and moving on. Doing good works is an outflow of who we are and how we are changed by the Lord. Doing good works is a continual mindset that our work will never end for the Lord because it is just a part of who we are in loving others because God has changed our heart because of His great love and sacrifice He has made for us. When we truly have known the love, joy, and peace of the Lord, we are changed. We are born again spiritually whereby we want everyone to feel that way. We want them to know the love of God and the peace that surpasses all understanding.

Romans 4 is one that many will bring up to defend the idea that we do not have to do works of faith as a part of God’s plan of salvation.
But I believe Paul was fighting against a heresy of what I call, “Circumcision Salvationism” in Romans 4. This was the false belief that said you had to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1). This is why Paul asks what profit is there in circumcision? (Romans 3:1). This is why Paul mentions how Abraham first believed (and it was accounted to him as righteousness) before he was circumcised in Romans 4:9-12. The parallel here is that we are first saved by God’s grace by a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior, and then we must fulfill the necessity of good works. Granted, circumcision is not a requirement under the New Testament, but the point here is that Paul makes that comparison to show that we first need to be saved by God’s grace through faith without works before we do any kind of work. Paul was not advocating that we can later sin and still be saved as many teach here. Paul asks shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul’s answer to that question is… God forbid (Romans 6:1-2). Sinning would include one being unfruitful or doing no works for the Lord. For Titus 1:16 says vain deceivers can deny God by being reprobate unto every good work. So works are required as a part of our salvation. It’s just that we need to first be saved by God’s grace through faith without works and we need to realize that grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10, Titus 2:11-12). We also need to realize that all good works we do is the good work the Lord does through us, as well. Yes, we have to choose to do good works, but when we truly do a good work for real in God’s sight, it is the Lord doing that good work through us. But God will not abide in a house that justifies sin and evil. A good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and vise versa.

Anyways, my point on Romans 4 is that it is dealing with INITIAL SALVATION. If a person thought they had to first be circumcised to be saved instead of first being saved by God’s grace through faith without works (in their Initial Salvation), then they essentially be holding to a view of Works ALONE Salvationism because there is no grace in their salvation whatsoever. It’s just all works and no grace ever at any point involving the Lord with them. It would be like one having to work at a job in order to buy a car. This is the analogy that Paul is condemning here. We receive God’s grace without works (Which is free). It is a gift. Receiving gifts is free. A person can receive a car as a free gift. Did they work to receive the car as a free gift? No. But that does not mean they can run red lights, and drive drunk with their free gift. They won’t have their free gift for very long if they did these kinds of things daily. It also does not mean we do not have to do works to maintain that vehicle (like filling it up with gas, and paying money to have it serviced, etcetera).

Works (true works) is simply a part of the faith. Faith is how we access God’s saving grace. This makes sense because Paul says there is the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11).

 

[robert derrick]

I don’t think it is about doing enough works to be saved. If we sin, all our previous righteousness will be undone whereby we have to confess and forsake such sins. Works of faith also needs to be included in living holy. For in Matthew 7:22-23, we learn that those who did wonderful works in His name were told to depart from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself because they also worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin. So they did good works. That was not the problem for these believers. The problem is that they also justified sin on some level. They worked iniquity (sin).

We are saved by God’s grace, but faith is how we access God’s grace. I see faith as like a two sided coin.

On first side of the coin: Faith starts off as a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior and or in believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day (Which is a process of salvation without works).

But on the second side of the coin: I believe faith continues on in our journey with the Lord in doing the work of faith and or in living holy (as a part our Sanctification). For everything in our Bible is a part of the faith. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). So if God’s Word (the Bible) tells me to do certain works, that is a part of my faith. If God’s Word (the Bible) tells me to live holy and put away sin, and keep myself unspotted from the world, that is also a part of my faith.

Folks tend to have a problem with thinking that if I have to do works, I am earning my salvation or that they must do enough good works to be saved. That’s the wrong kind of thinking or approach. Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches that Grace by faith without works is how we are first saved when we accepted the Lord Jesus in the beginning or start of our faith. But after we are saved, God does require us to do good works, and to live holy as a part of His plan of salvation for our lives. This is not really just doing a checklist of good works and moving on. Doing good works is an outflow of who we are and how we are changed by the Lord. Doing good works is a continual mindset that our work will never end for the Lord because it is just a part of who we are in loving others because God has changed our heart because of His great love and sacrifice He has made for us. When we truly have known the love, joy, and peace of the Lord, we are changed. We are born again spiritually whereby we want everyone to feel that way. We want them to know the love of God and the peace that surpasses all understanding.

Romans 4 is one that many will bring up to defend the idea that we do not have to do works of faith as a part of God’s plan of salvation.
But I believe Paul was fighting against a heresy of what I call, “Circumcision Salvationism” in Romans 4. This was the false belief that said you had to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1). This is why Paul asks what profit is there in circumcision? (Romans 3:1). This is why Paul mentions how Abraham first believed (and it was accounted to him as righteousness) before he was circumcised in Romans 4:9-12. The parallel here is that we are first saved by God’s grace by a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior, and then we must fulfill the necessity of good works. Granted, circumcision is not a requirement under the New Testament, but the point here is that Paul makes that comparison to show that we first need to be saved by God’s grace through faith without works before we do any kind of work. Paul was not advocating that we can later sin and still be saved as many teach here. Paul asks shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul’s answer to that question is… God forbid (Romans 6:1-2). Sinning would include one being unfruitful or doing no works for the Lord. For Titus 1:16 says vain deceivers can deny God by being reprobate unto every good work. So works are required as a part of our salvation. It’s just that we need to first be saved by God’s grace through faith without works and we need to realize that grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10, Titus 2:11-12). We also need to realize that all good works we do is the good work the Lord does through us, as well. Yes, we have to choose to do good works, but when we truly do a good work for real in God’s sight, it is the Lord doing that good work through us. But God will not abide in a house that justifies sin and evil. A good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and vise versa.

Works (true works) is simply a part of the faith. Faith is how we access God’s saving grace. This makes sense because Paul says there is the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11).

I was dealing with this 'Behold' character in another thread, out of which he made this new thread from what he posted me.

I was willing to go along with the teaching, until it became clear that the end result of it, is not stopping sinning, but only stopping trying not to sin.

In one manner the teaching is correct: we should stop trying not to sin by our own will power, but should simply repent and stop sinning by grace and divine power of Jesus Christ living richly within us.

These OSAS people are all hot air with words only, but not in power. The only power they have is their own words spun around Scripture like a serpent squeezing all truth out of it. They are now literally teaching to stop trying not to sin, and leave it at that. They do not go on to the perfection of actually not sinning by grace.

There is no there, there, with these people. They do not stand on solid ground. It's all in the air. I personally have given up on ever correcting them. As you show by your postings, it is all an academic exercise with them, that has nothing to do with actually doing righteousness, but only of talking about being 'made righteous', while still doing unrighteousness.

They truly are without any substance nor evidence of faith, and have only mastered talking about it.

Their faith truly is of their own imagination, and has nothing to do with the kingdom of Christ and His true Light of righteousness.

Keep up the good work though, because though it means nothing to them, it means plenty for us who love to do good and hate to do evil:

For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Even when they talk about 'hating' sin, it really is just a word to them, because even while saying they hate it, they still love doing it.

OSAS is all about twisted imagination of the double hearted.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I was dealing with this 'Behold' character in another thread, out of which he made this new thread from what he posted me.

I was willing to go along with the teaching, until it became clear that the end result of it, is not stopping sinning, but only stopping trying not to sin.

In one manner the teaching is correct: we should stop trying not to sin by our own will power, but should simply repent and stop sinning by grace and divine power of Jesus Christ living richly within us.

These OSAS people are all hot air with words only, but not in power. The only power they have is their own words spun around Scripture like a serpent squeezing all truth out of it. They are now literally teaching to stop trying not to sin, and leave it at that. They do not go on to the perfection of actually not sinning by grace.

There is no there, there, with these people. They do not stand on solid ground. It's all in the air. I personally have given up on ever correcting them. As you show by your postings, it is all an academic exercise with them, that has nothing to do with actually doing righteousness, but only of talking about being 'made righteous', while still doing unrighteousness.

They truly are without any substance nor evidence of faith, and have only mastered talking about it.

Their faith truly is of their own imagination, and has nothing to do with the kingdom of Christ and His true Light of righteousness.

Keep up the good work though, because though it means nothing to them, it means plenty for us who love to do good and hate to do evil:

For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Even when they talk about 'hating' sin, it really is just a word to them, because even while saying they hate it, they still love doing it.

OSAS is all about twisted imagination of the double hearted.

Thanks. All we can do is pray for them in love and keep sharing the Word in love, my friend.
If just one accepts the truth before they die, it is all worth it. But even if they don’t, there are others who are looking for the truth and I believe they can find these kinds of threads by searching the internet. Those have ears to hear, will hear.

Peace be unto you in the Lord always.

 

[robert derrick]

Thanks. All we can do is pray for them in love and keep sharing the Word in love, my friend.
If just one accepts the truth before they die, it is all worth it. But even if they don’t, there are others who are looking for the truth and I believe they can find these kinds of threads by searching the internet. Those have ears to hear, will hear.

Peace be unto you in the Lord always.

In the Spirit of charity, I can agree with you that it is theoretically possible for someone once becoming OSAS to actually repent of it.

However, my counsel to you and certain others remains the same for our own peace and welfare of soul: Do not expect it. Do not allow your hope in ministry of Christ to depend upon it. And above all else, do not allow their endgame delusions they now are posting, to disturb nor unsettle you with their hopeless destruction and opposition to Scripture as written.

Remember, they already teach that letters on paper are dead, and no longer have anything to do with their faith. They only play quoting Scripture, because it is fun for them to intellectually squeeze the truth out of it.

Lucifer lost all intelligent light of Christ, when he rebelled against the authority of the Lord's word, so that the devil now only resorts to degenerated intellectualism.

It's the same with modern liberalism. We can rebuke it plainly. But we cannot reason with it, with any real hope of correcting anyone from it.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but only not to get into the snare of looking for it to happen, with the continual frustration of never being able to even get a simple point across to them.

Preach the word, be instant in season and out of season, and let the good seed fall where it may. And those who refuse it is more expected than not:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.

I have learned this lesson the hard way on this site, so that now I am much freer in sharing what I know to be the simple truth of written Scripture on paper, and I no longer delude myself into looking for an honest response from OSAS believers.

The one or two times they did respond with honest discretion, I was greatly and pleasantly surprised, and honored them for it:

And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In the Spirit of charity, I can agree with you that it is theoretically possible for someone once becoming OSAS to actually repent of it.

However, my counsel to you and certain others remains the same for our own peace and welfare of soul: Do not expect it. Do not allow your hope in ministry of Christ to depend upon it. And above all else, do not allow their endgame delusions they now are posting, to disturb nor unsettle you with their hopeless destruction and opposition to Scripture as written.

Remember, they already teach that letters on paper are dead, and no longer have anything to do with their faith. They only play quoting Scripture, because it is fun for them to intellectually squeeze the truth out of it.

Lucifer lost all intelligent light of Christ, when he rebelled against the authority of the Lord's word, so that the devil now only resorts to degenerated intellectualism.

It's the same with modern liberalism. We can rebuke it plainly. But we cannot reason with it, with any real hope of correcting anyone from it.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but only not to get into the snare of looking for it to happen, with the continual frustration of never being able to even get a simple point across to them.

Preach the word, be instant in season and out of season, and let the good seed fall where it may. And those who refuse it is more expected than not:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.

I have learned this lesson the hard way on this site, so that now I am much freer in sharing what I know to be the simple truth of written Scripture on paper, and I no longer delude myself into looking for an honest response from OSAS believers.

The one or two times they did respond with honest discretion, I was greatly and pleasantly surprised, and honored them for it:

And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

There are testimonies of ex-OSAS Christians. But yes. I do realize the majority will not respond. I do hold to the possibility that all may not believe the Word I preach from. But I still will preach the Word in the hope that maybe 1 or 2 of them over the course of my life will have made that difference to reach them. Granted, I am nothing. Christ is everything. I just plant seeds, and another waters, but it is God who gives the increase. But I still will preach and hold up the Word of God in love to a lost and dying world. At the least, I know that my preaching pleases the Lord.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

What context in John’s 1st epistle defends your belief that you can sin and still be saved by a belief alone in Jesus?
I see nothing of the sort in John’s first epistle.

You cut my post and that makes your reply above irrelevant because you did not address what I actually wrote.
Which was:''If, as we're told in 1st Corinthians 2, the natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned, how does that natural man ''doeth righteousness'' ''

The rest of your post is ranting and name calling, and as such irrelevant.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Jesus didn't go to Hell.
If there will be born again Christians in''hell', come the judgement we were lied to.
If there are unrepentant sinners in heaven,we were lied to.
Scriptural proof we aren't being lied to? The gospel.

Do you have scriptural proof sir? Was that the first time that you had heard that Jesus went to hell?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You cut my post and that makes your reply above irrelevant because you did not address what I actually wrote.
Which was:''If, as we're told in 1st Corinthians 2, the natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned, how does that natural man ''doeth righteousness'' ''

The rest of your post is ranting and name calling, and as such irrelevant.

I don’t believe I called you specifically a bad name. Any belief that does not agree with what the Bible says on living righteously as a part of entering the Kingdom means one is against that righteousness. I only labeled what I believe that the popular Protestant Belief Alone Salvationist type belief ultimately does. For if you believe that it is a belief alone in Jesus plus nothing else that saves, then sin does not separate you from God, and therefore, you can sin and still be saved on some level. Unless of course you believe you must be sinlessly perfect in order for your faith alone in Jesus to be true or applicable. But I don’t get that impression you believe that way. Therefore, a sin and still be saved type application must then be your reality (Which is what I am against).

I also labeled your incorrect handling of the Word of God (Which is true), too. You are not really dealing with the context in what it says. Even now you say that the natural man does righteousness is somehow wrong. At least that is what it sounds like you are saying here. If that is the case, then what do you make of 1 John 3:10? How do you accept the plain reading of that verse?

Granted, I am not expecting you to explain 1 John 3:10. I am just expecting you to mindlessly throw out 1 Corinthians 2:14 again like you did before (as if that somehow proves you are correct in some way).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The person who is born of God also does righteousness (1 John 2:29).
The person who is born of God also loves one another (1 John 4:7).
So it’s more than just a belief alone to show one has been born again.

That's fine for you, but I have been down that road and reject it. Once any teaching, ritual, works, certain words other than Jesus is Lord, is attached to my faith in Jesus, then what I believe no longer matters.

So you have been down the road of believing verses like 1 John 2:29, and 1 John 4:7 and now you reject them?
That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
You cannot pick and choose to believe what parts of the Bible you like to believe in.

But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do. (James 1.6-8)

First, i don’t believe you are applying James 1:6-8 correctly. The context is falling into various trials of our faith (James 1:3) whereby the testing of our faith works patience (endurance) whereby we will have our perfect work (perfect endurance) in lacking nothing (James 1:4). This is to overcome sin. But if we lack wisdom on this matter, let them ask of God for help. But if they doubt when they ask in faith (in that they can overcome sin or God will help them) then they should not expect to receive anything from the Lord on this matter. They are double minded. Meaning, they will just keep on sinning even though they keep asking (with them doubting that they can overcome).

Second, if you were to also keep reading in James, it actually refutes your false Belief Alone Salvationist viewpoint.

James 1:12 says,
“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.”

Do you really believe this above verse? Do you believe that if you endure temptation (sin), that you will receive the crown of life as a result?
I don’t think you really believe this verse because you have expressed that you hold to the popular candy land fantasy of Protestant Belief Alone Salvationism.

Then there is James 1:21, as well.

James 1:21 says,
“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.”

Do you believe in laying apart (or aside) naughtiness as a part of receiving the engrafted Word (NT Scripture) which is able to your soul? Do you really believe this verse by James? I really don’t see how.

I have learned to always believe I am saved, because I believe Jesus is the Christ, and I tell myself that at all times.

Jeremiah 17:9 says,
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Meaning, you should not let your heart or thoughts guide you, but only the Word of God.

I have learned to always believe Jesus is my Savior all the time, whether going to bed or waking up, it is the first, middle, and last thing I always keep in mind throughout the day. I have found this to be the simplest thing to do, without worrying about all the teaching and doing of things in life.

But what do you with verses like John 8:51, and 1 John 3:10, and 1 Timothy 5:8? Do you just rip these verses out of your Bible and throw them out the window?

But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. (2 Cor 11.3)

It says pure devotion to Christ. Do you believe in pure devotion to Christ? That would involve doing more than just believing in the Lord, my friend. Jesus said, “…whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.” (Matthew 12:50).

I no longer worry nor care about anything else. I believe things about being a Christian, and I read the Bible to learn them, but it has nothing to do with believing Jesus is my Savior and I am saved. It matters what we do in life, because we do reap what we sow, which is nature's law, but it has nothing to do with what I believe. What I believe is all that matters to me, and it matters always while I am awake: Jesus is the Christ, and He is my Savior, and I am saved.

Again, this salvation is more than believing in Jesus. What do you make of Matthew 25:31-46? What about Revelation 22:14-15 that says,

“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:14-15).

 

[Robert Gwin]

Jesus didn't go to Hell.
If there will be born again Christians in''hell', come the judgement we were lied to.
If there are unrepentant sinners in heaven,we were lied to.
Scriptural proof we aren't being lied to? The gospel.

Yes maam, here is the prophecy of the Christ going to hell, and the fulfillment of it:
Ps 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

You were lied to about hell Blue, would you like to discuss what hell is?

You are correct, there will be no unrepentant sinners in heaven.