Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Christians are of the living not the dead
they live in the spiritual realm in Revelation 20:4 waiting for the last day resurrection of all, as you have been shown several times
This is still being avoided:
Rev 20:4- Already saved people being physically killed in the GT and then resurrecting physically. This happens in the future.
Paul- addresses unsaved people who are physically alive accepting Christ and being saved. He is referring to people who lived during his lifetime. He never once addresses murdered people being seen to live again (a physical resurrection) in any of the quoted passages.
Marty, let's stick to discussing Revelation 20:4 only in your thread. This thread was created to divert attention away from the truth you were sharing in your thread. It doesn't deserve our attention.Your only issue is that you added physically resurrected to rev 20:4 is doesn't say that.
I believe that it is saying that when they separately physically die they raised back to life separately and still reigning with Jesus. That's why is says "each in turn" in the verses below as in when they believe and when they die.
1 Corinthians 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him
Your only issue is that you added physically resurrected to rev 20:4 is doesn't say that.
I believe that it is saying that when they separately physically die they raised back to life separately and still reigning with Jesus.
That's why is says "each in turn" in the verses below as in when they believe and when they die.
1 Corinthians 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him
It presents us with beheaded people who are seen to live again so calling it a physical resurrection is accurate. What is not accurate is forcing the born again concept into verse 4. That's wrong because those people were already born again before they stood against the beast and were murdered.
That goes against what the bible says about the resurrection of the dead in Christ. It does not happen individually when each person dies. It happens to all the dead in Christ at the same moment, in a one time mass resurrection. It also doesn't say they are simply dying but are beheaded for rejecting the mark of the beast and not worshiping the image that people will build.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
You are misunderstanding what "every man in his own order" means because Paul is clear all that are Christ's at his coming shall resurrect which is not individually over time when people die but at one time.
Yours beliefs here do not match normal Amill beliefs. They reject a physical death and physical resurrection in verse 4, and also reject this individual resurrection concept since they believe all the dead resurrect at the same time.
I don't know why you think that
OfCourse they were born again before they died and if someone was beheaded do you think that their spirit would be headless?
If it was literal would someone not rise if they were shot by the beast instead of beheaded? Beheaded is just an example of being martyred.
The bodily resurrection is a onetime event not spiritual. If you think that the body resurrection is a onetime event, then how come only the beheaded rise in rev 20:4?
The separate resurrections are only spiritual not the body.
It's from Amill which teaches the beheaded in verse 4 are being saved/born again ie a spiritual resurrection. They are wrong obviously.
No, do you?
lol, no. Being beheaded is a specific way someone is murdered. We can't change things so they mean something else. Drowning wouldn't be any other form of death yet Amill would argue that if it said they were drowned rather than beheaded.
They aren't the only ones to rise, they are just the ones focused upon.
Not in Rev 20 which speaks of two separate resurrections of large numbers of people, all physical. No spiritual resurrections are mentioned in Rev 20.
So what if someone was shot for not worshiping the beast?
I'm sure people will be killed many ways but John only was shown a smaller group of people who were beheaded. It's like being shown John the baptist who was beheaded, but not Stephen who was stoned. Both will rise at the same time.
Why would he only be shown them?
It only makes sense if it’s symbolic for all who are killing by the beast.
Why only show those who are murdered by the beast? Why not show all who die, from natural causes etc?
The beast will kill many for many reasons, but most are not shown coming to life to John. It only makes sense if God is showing a smaller group to John, while other scriptures assure us others will also resurrect at the same time, whether martyrs or not martyrs. All the dead in Christ, from all time, will resurrect at the same time.
Because revelation was a message to seven church’s about a soon coming persecution
Sorry pal, the Greek word for "Resurrection" (Anastasis) below wasn't used in Revelation 20:4, back to the drawing board on your claims in errorOnly the beheaded are described as resurrecting in Rev 20:4.
Sorry pal, the Greek word for "Resurrection" (Anastasis) below wasn't used in Revelation 20:4, back to the drawing board on your claims in error
The Greek word that is used in verse 4, zao, is not a word that refers to someone being resurrected from the dead. Instead, it is a word that refers to someone being alive and living. The Greek word anazao, however, is a word used to refer to someone being revived or resurrected and that word is used in verse 5 to refer to the rest of the dead.You show your lack of knowledge of the Greek language. As if Greek has only one word for something. SMH.
They are already living as souls and spiritually in Christ. Why do you not accept they received the first resurrection?The Greek word that is used in verse 4, zao, is not a word that refers to someone being resurrected from the dead. Instead, it is a word that refers to someone being alive and living. The Greek word anazao, however, is a word used to refer to someone being revived or resurrected and that word is used in verse 5 to refer to the rest of the dead.
If verse 4 was talking about a bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ then the word anazao would have been used instead of zao. What John saw was souls (undeniable) and he saw them living and reigning with Christ in heaven.
It does say that. The word anastasis only refers to the bodily resurrection from the dead that we hope for while in these bodies, wherever it is found in the New Testament. It never refers to anything else.Your only issue is that you added physically resurrected to rev 20:4 is doesn't say that.
They are not Preterist. We have explained this often.Not all Ahmil believe as WPM, Israelite, Covenantee, I believe they follow reformed preterist eschatology that denies a future great tribulation and the future antichrist also