The Doctrine of Millennialism is destroy by Personal Symbolizing of Scripture.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,020
1,229
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't think it unreasonable to think some people headed for higher ground, and survived for a while. Until the flood fully covered the earth.


Or that the flood was not even global. It is a sister story with Lot in the gospels. We know without a doubt the story of Lot was not a global slaying of all wicked on the planet and being compared to Noah, we know the same lesson is being told. Neither shows a global slaying. Both are a localized slaying, one by water and one by fire. In neither story did all of humanity perish.

All humanity is not perishing in Rev 19, nor the day of the second coming. Both Rev 2 and 19 promise a future rule over humans past the second coming, and Armageddon. Amill will absolutely ignore the future tense verb used in both passages because that violates the doctrine held.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.




Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,645
21,732
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Or that the flood was not even global. It is a sister story with Lot in the gospels. We know without a doubt the story of Lot was not a global slaying of all wicked on the planet and being compared to Noah, we know the same lesson is being told. Neither shows a global slaying. Both are a localized slaying, one by water and one by fire. In neither story did all of humanity perish.
1 Peter 3:20 KJV
20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I'm thinking that only Noah and his sons and their wives - eight total - were saved from the flood.

Genesis 7:19-22 KJV
19) And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20) Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21) And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22) All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

I'm thinking that the flood covered all the earth, and everyone else died.

Much love!
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,020
1,229
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1 Peter 3:20 KJV
20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I'm thinking that only Noah and his sons and their wives - eight total - were saved from the flood.


Were they saved from the water or by the water?
 

rwb

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2022
3,362
1,444
113
72
Branson
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Daniel 12:1-2 KJV
1) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Interestingly, Daniel wrote "many of them that sleep in the dust shall awake". What makes this interesting to me is he did not say "all".

Much love!

Daniel 12:1-4 (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

To rightly understand these verses, we need to consider all that Daniel has written. Daniel gives us the time reference for when "many" who have died shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. It's when Michael stands up for the children of Daniel's people, a time of trouble such as never before, and in that time Daniel's people shall be delivered, EVERYONE found written in the book shall awake to everlasting life, the wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, having turned many to righteousness they shall shine as the stars for ever and ever. Not for ONE thousand literal years, but forever and ever. Finally Daniel tells us many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Trying to force all that Daniel foretells shall come into only the singular hour coming at the end of this time ignores what Daniel tells us will happen when Michael, the great prince stands up for His people.

1. When according to Scripture does/did Michael stand up for Daniel's people?
2. Who are Daniel's people that Michael stands up for?

Revelation 12:1-4 (KJV) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Revelation 12:5-6 (KJV) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7-11 (KJV) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Christian Gedge

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The king has already introduced His kingdom to planet earth. Wherever you find the king, you find the kingdom. Christ ushered in the kingdom of God when He came. Jesus said in Matthew 11:12,from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth (biazo) violence, and the (biastes) violent take it by force.”

Jesus said, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man (biazo) presseth into it.”

We should immediately note: for men to be able to press into the kingdom and for it to suffer violence it must already exist. The Greek word biazo here means to force, to crowd oneself into, or to seize. The kingdom of God is shown here to be a present reality that the righteous enter upon salvation. This has been the case since John the Baptist. The spiritual kingdom Christ brought was very-much alive and active from the beginning of Christ’s earthly ministry.

Sadly, the overwhelming majority of Jews missed their promised Messiah when He came. He just didn’t fit their expectation of who and what the Messiah was to be. Also, they had an erroneous political racial perception of what the kingdom was. They had a carnal earthly view of Messiah and His kingdom. They believed that the first thing He would do was subjugate all national Israel’s enemies, starting with the Romans. When Christ appeared at His first advent, the Jews imagined He would reinstate the now defunct earthly throne of Israel and reign victorious over the physical nation, restoring their ancient borders. The only problem was: they had a defective hyper-literalist understanding of Old Testament prophesies and a misconception of how the kingdom would look.

Matthew 3:1-2 records, “In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand (or eengiken or ‘is made near’ or ‘approaches’).”

Matthew 4:12, 17 records, “when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee…From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand (or eengiken).”

Mark 1:14-15 records, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (or eengiken).”

Jesus told the disciples as the kingdom advances, And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (or eengiken)(Matthew 10:7).

The kingdom of God exists wherever the king – the Lord Jesus Christ – exercises His spiritual jurisdiction. His kingdom embodies all those who possess the indwelling Holy Spirit – those who are born-again of the Spirit of God. Christ’s kingdom is therefore found wherever there are citizens of that Kingdom.
His spiritual kingdom where God dwells is everlasting to everlasting.

His kingdom began to be within men after Jesus' resurrection and spiritual newbirth.

However, His kingdom is not the church, which is His body on earth today, being of His flesh and of His bones. Scripture never calls His church is never called His kingdom on earth.

The righteousness of His kingdom is established on earth, when His will is done by men. That has never been over all the earth, and will be when He comes to do so as King and Judge of all the earth.

Acknowledging the spiritual kingdom of God, does not need to do away with His prophesied kingdom on earth as King and Judge over all the earth.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To put my post in other words: the Bible reveals the underlying patterns of reality and human consciousness. It reveals the mould which the world is formed from. So this alone has more value than a simple historical chronicle which would put the Bible on the same level as Plutarch's Lives.

If for example, Jesus tells a story about a man who scattered seeds, and some grew into plants and others withered and died, which has more meaning to you? A man literally scattered seeds and some withered and died - a common and uninteresting occurrence; or a man spread teachings, and these teachings, amid controversy, found loyal followers, and the followers spread more seeds and created more loyal followers. Which has more meaning and truth to you?

Matthew 13
13 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
No one is suggesting understanding the spiritual teaching of Scripture is unimportant.

However, seeking the spiritual significance and application of Scripture, does not need to overlook the literal importance of it.

It is just as important to learn from right dividing of the word, the literal prophecies of Scripture, which is an exercise of intelligent reasoning.

People through history raised on studying the Bible accurately have been some of the greatest scholars, builders, leaders, etc...

That would not be the case, if people turn the literal events of the Bible into myth and legend, rather than believe them as written.

Afterall, it is Christ Himself that lightens every man coming into the world, and He does not reward false handling of His word with true intelligence and reason.

It is not necessary to divide Scriptural truth from spiritual understanding, as one being more important than the other.

It's called being so spiritually minded, we become no earthly good.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Taking Scripture literally is not just about reading it as symbol or not, but is first and foremost about taking the words literally, which means taking each and every word of Scripture into account, in order to rightly divide and teach the words of God.

Teaching one resurrection only, does not take into account the words: the rest of the dead lived not again, until after the first resurrection.

If someone wants to say the first resurrection only applies to the spiritual resurrection of our souls, then they must change the meaning of those words, if not ignore them altogether.

If the first resurrection is spiritual only, then the rest of the dead also do not apply to a bodily resurrection either.

And so there is no bodily resurrection of the dead, but only spiritual resurrection of the souls in Rev 20:4-5: The blessed in 4,a nd the rest of the souls in vs 5.

That also means that all souls will be resurrected spiritually blessed: it teaches all men shall be saved in the end.

Also, Daniel 12:2 says there will be a resurrection of many that sleep in the dust, not all men and women of history.

Since this must apply to Rev 20:12, then it must be the rest of the dead, that are resurrected and judged after the first resurrection of all the saints at the Lord's return.

And there will be many of them: some found in Lamb's book of Life, and some cast into the lake of fire.

God means every word He has written in Scripture on earth, and only those teaching their own will ignore them, and don't take them literally necessary for doctrine of God.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What is really surprising though, is that wealthy socialists in the Christian west were the actual monetizers of Soviet Communism in 1917. Trotsky left New York with 10,000 U.S. in his pocket, as discovered by the police when passing through Halifax, Nova Scotia. Authorities in Britain said to let him go. He then winds up in Moscow with that money in 1917. Same with Lenin, having been supported by Swiss bankers.

The 1950's Reese Congressional Committee investigation of tax-exempt foundations also revealed this Leftist subversive working by the Rockefeller, Carnegie, and Ford foundations, and other small ones. Senator Reese's lawyer Rene Wormser put the info they discovered in a book, Foundations: Their Power and Influence.

Gee. You mean Communists are not sincere?

Wow.

Past Americans, that have gotten wealthy by the free American economy, pass it on to heirs that learn to despise American 'capitalism' and entrepreneurship, as well as try to cover for their own inherited status through liberal causes just this side of outright communism.

Now all the democrat party is communist and despotic.

There's just still too many Americans in the country for them to openly enforce it, though they have learned how to steal an election, and get away with it.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Premil boast that they are literalists when in fact they spiritualize so much literal Scripture away that interferes with their cherished beliefs. General unqualified phrases like “all,” “all nations,” “the quick (or living) and the dead,” “every man,” “every eye,” “every one,” “men,” “man,” “all men everywhere,” “the flesh of all men both free and bond, both small and great,” “all that dwell upon the earth … whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ,” “they that dwell on the earth … whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,” “the world,” “the whole world” and “all the world,” that objective and impartial Bible students acknowledge embrace the whole human race (or the full amount of all the wicked) are redefined and explained away to let Premil fit. If one was to take a precise straightforward interpretation of these phrases, one could only come to conclusion that there are no exclusions here. This shows that the Premil boast that they are literalists is inaccurate.
Since you don't acknowledge the first resurrection, and then that of the rest of the dead. As well as refusing to acknowledge that many that sleep shall awake, not all that have ever slept in the dust, then you cannot possibly interpret accurately other Scriptures pertaining to the 2 resurrections of the dead.

The endless debate about every other Scripture is sealed, since one takes into account the words written in one place, and not the other.

Every eye shall see Him, but not every eye will be put out by fowls of the air.

Of all nations will many be gathered at Armageddon, not all men, women, and children of the nations.

The flesh of men both bond and free in the armies of the kings gathered at Armageddon.


Etc... Etc...

Also, preaching one bodily resurrection at one time only, denies the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which has already past.

You read all, where it does not say all, and you read all are killed, where it does not say so, and you read one resurrection, where it plainly speaks of three.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2022
690
379
63
43
X
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No one is suggesting understanding the spiritual teaching of Scripture is unimportant.

However, seeking the spiritual significance and application of Scripture, does not need to overlook the literal importance of it.

It is just as important to learn from right dividing of the word, the literal prophecies of Scripture, which is an exercise of intelligent reasoning.

People through history raised on studying the Bible accurately have been some of the greatest scholars, builders, leaders, etc...

That would not be the case, if people turn the literal events of the Bible into myth and legend, rather than believe them as written.

Afterall, it is Christ Himself that lightens every man coming into the world, and He does not reward false handling of His word with true intelligence and reason.

It is not necessary to divide Scriptural truth from spiritual understanding, as one being more important than the other.

It's called being so spiritually minded, we become no earthly good.
I believe the events described in the Bible are literally true, but some of them, like the Garden of Eden, perhaps happened in this world; and perhaps happened in another, higher world.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
First it says all flesh so if literal it’s all flesh
If you're going to ignore my arguments, then we're not having an honest exchange.

I'll try once more: All flesh at Armageddon will be eaten. Scripture is speaking specifically of that one place, where all fowls of the earth are called together to eat at.

Scripture does not say all flesh of all the earth is there, much less all eaten.

It is not Gog and Magog surrounding the beloved camp of the saints on earth, and instantly scorched with fire.

It can't be, because the saints are plainly with the Lord at His return in the air.

The armies at Armageddon cannot possibly be Gog and Magog around the beloved city of God on earth.

Second your mistake is that you think the battle in chapter 16 is the same as the battle in chapter 19

If they are not, then you need to show why not, but Scripture does tie Rev 16,17, and 19 together.

For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

That great day of the Lord's return, is welcomed by His enemies gathered at Armageddon.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

They are ten kings allied with the beast to make war with the Lamb at His return. And with Him are His resurrected saints. They will have on hour with the beast at Armageddon, before being slaughtered without mercy.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


The returned Lord is now coming down with His resurrected armies of saints to do battle with them, and He will overcome them, because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.


These are them gathered together at Armageddon in one place on earth, with 10 kings allied with the beast, to make war with the Lamb and His resurrected saints with Him, and in one hour they will be overcome, and all of their flesh will be eaten by all the fowls of the earth without quarter.

To say this, is simply by reasoning the Scriptures together, for a full revelation of that battle. To not say it, is more of a refusal, than a reason.




So to stay true to scripture Rev 16 is the battle at Armageddon which is the kings and the beast destroying Babylon the great which is confirmed at the end of chapter 17
And now we see how opposing teachings can read any Scripture differently:

They will destroy their own Babylon on earth, by seeking to destroy the Lord Himself and His armies.

It's the same thing Pharaoh did to the power of Egypt, by first resisting the Lord, and then actually driving down to the dry ground of the Red Sea.

Both efforts are foolishly insane, and suicidal.

For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


God is a merciful God, and will always allow any man to worship Him, or at least not to attack Him, so that when they do, they sin against their own soul and destroy themselves, though it is not His will that any should perish.

The fear of a king is as the roaring of a lion: whoso provoketh him to anger sinneth against his own soul.

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.


History shows the evil rulers end up destroying their own power, and even their own people. They end of showing they hate their own people and places to death, rather than be defeated alone.

Nero set fire to Rome, and Hitler ended up hating His on Reich and people to death.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Snakes eat their own.

Babylon is plainly their own power and city. When they gather together at Armageddon to actually try and fight with the returning Lord of Lords coming down from the air, with all His resurrected armies of saints, they are loving death and hating their own lives, power, and people, with suicidal destruction.

And that does not include all flesh on the earth, but only them at Armageddon.

Rev 19 is a Jesus defeating and the beast and the false prophet
True. At Armageddon with the 10 gathered kings of the great whore, and their armies of captains, foot soldiers, and slavish retinue. Which is the composition of all armies of man in history.

This will be the greatest one from all over the world.



Two different battles with different combatants different outcomes and Armageddon isn’t mentioned in chapter 19 thus they are not the same events
Disagree of course, for reasons given.

I appreciate your honest efforts, and if you want to respond to my own words, then I'd be glad to see any convincing corrections of them.

Otherwise, I'll just have to keep them as is.
 
Last edited:

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe the events described in the Bible are literally true, but some of them, like the Garden of Eden, perhaps happened in this world; and perhaps happened in another, higher world.
I don't have such speculative willingness as you with Scripture.

The first garden was planted on earth.

The spiritual garden is now in heaven, and is given to eat by them that receive Jesus as Lord and God.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Scripture is naturally and spiritually literal enough, so that we don't need to try to morph it with our own imagination.

It may be fun to think about such things, but it has nothing to do with what is written by God about it.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thoughts arise & are experienced, but there is no “thinker”. “Thinker” is a thought.
That there is “objective proof” is a subjective belief.
Therein, if there is a “personal interpretation”, it can never actually be someone else’s…
As your interpretation is - that there is such a thing as a”personal interpretation”.
I agree. There is nothing wrong with personal intepretations of scripture, so long as we don't try to teach them as Scriptrue itself.

And the true doctrine of Scripture will be seen by taking all Scripture together, without any Scripture contradicting it.

A personal teaching of one's own, can be spotted when other Scriptures are ignored, or changed to fit our own teaching.

Objective reading remains the same: reading the words themselves, without injecting our own opinions into them.
 

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,426
2,206
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
His spiritual kingdom where God dwells is everlasting to everlasting.

His kingdom began to be within men after Jesus' resurrection and spiritual newbirth.

However, His kingdom is not the church, which is His body on earth today, being of His flesh and of His bones. Scripture never calls His church is never called His kingdom on earth.

The righteousness of His kingdom is established on earth, when His will is done by men. That has never been over all the earth, and will be when He comes to do so as King and Judge of all the earth.

Acknowledging the spiritual kingdom of God, does not need to do away with His prophesied kingdom on earth as King and Judge over all the earth.

You are talking about His glorified eternal perfect kingdom that arrives on the new earth when He comes. It is free of all the bondage of corruption.
 

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,426
2,206
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Since you don't acknowledge the first resurrection, and then that of the rest of the dead. As well as refusing to acknowledge that many that sleep shall awake, not all that have ever slept in the dust, then you cannot possibly interpret accurately other Scriptures pertaining to the 2 resurrections of the dead.

The endless debate about every other Scripture is sealed, since one takes into account the words written in one place, and not the other.

Every eye shall see Him, but not every eye will be put out by fowls of the air.

Of all nations will many be gathered at Armageddon, not all men, women, and children of the nations.

The flesh of men both bond and free in the armies of the kings gathered at Armageddon.


Etc... Etc...

Also, preaching one bodily resurrection at one time only, denies the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which has already past.

You read all, where it does not say all, and you read all are killed, where it does not say so, and you read one resurrection, where it plainly speaks of three.

Not to! You're adding on to Scripture again. You have to. Armageddon is not even mentioned in Revelation 19. You force it in there. The flesh of men both bond and free relates to all those who are against Christ - all the wicked, who spiritually take the beast's mark. One is either in God's army at the end or the devil's army. That is the pattern of Scripture. You cannot take Scripture after Scripture literal as it exposes your teaching. What is more, you have nothing to support your faulty opinion of, and fixation with, Revelation 20.
 

-Phil

Active Member
Nov 22, 2022
405
56
28
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree. There is nothing wrong with personal intepretations of scripture, so long as we don't try to teach them as Scriptrue itself.

And the true doctrine of Scripture will be seen by taking all Scripture together, without any Scripture contradicting it.

A personal teaching of one's own, can be spotted when other Scriptures are ignored, or changed to fit our own teaching.

Objective reading remains the same: reading the words themselves, without injecting our own opinions into them.
The entirety is a subjective interpretation.
 

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,426
2,206
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Since you don't acknowledge the first resurrection, and then that of the rest of the dead. As well as refusing to acknowledge that many that sleep shall awake, not all that have ever slept in the dust, then you cannot possibly interpret accurately other Scriptures pertaining to the 2 resurrections of the dead.

Premils avoid the most important resurrection to let their opinion fit. There is one literal first resurrection where Christ defeated the grave. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

There are two Greek words used in the NT that are used to describe the resurrection of Christ, and that are significantly, in turn, purposely equated to mankind; they are egeiro (Strong’s 1453) and anastasis (Strong’s 386).

Jesus said in Matthew 12:41-42, “The men of Nineveh shall rise [Gr. anistemi] in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up [Gr. egeiro] in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.”

The righteous Old Testament Gentile saint – the queen of the south – is raised at the same time as the wicked Pharisees of Christ’s day to stand before the same judgment seat of Christ.

This is further impressed in the parallel portion in Luke 11:31, only with an additional example, saying, “The queen of the south shall rise up [Gr. egeiro] in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineveh shall rise up [Gr. anistemi] in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.”

Here, the two main words used throughout the New Testament for resurrection are applied to the general resurrection that occurs on Judgment Day when the Old Testament time saints and wicked join the New Testament saints and wicked at the judgment. Remember the queen of the south and Nineveh are presented as Old Testament Gentile saints that will “rise up in the judgment with” the wicked unbelieving Jews of Christ’s day. There is no prolonged parenthesis period separating the resurrection of the wicked dead and the resurrection of the righteous dead. They both “rise up” at the same time. The Old Testament Gentile city of Nineveh is shown to “rise up in the judgment with” (or meta) the religious Jewish world of Christ’s day and “condemn it.” The Greek word meta (3326) is described in Strong’s concordance as “a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; ‘amid’.”

Amillennialists therefore maintain that there is one general resurrection, of the just and unjust, at the second advent of Christ. The righteous then inherit the earth in an eternal state. Premils understanding of Revelation 20 conflict with numerous Scripture.

Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

Please notice “the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” We are not just looking at the righteous, we are looking at both the righteous and the wicked. The passage goes on to confirm: “they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” All that are in the graves will come forth when He comes. The righteous will be ushered into His glorious kingdom, the wicked shall be damned for all eternity in the lake of fire.

The righteous and wicked dead all rise in response to the same sovereign voice - Christ's. Christ’s description of the resurrection depicts a unitary event, albeit in two parts. Part 1 is the elect; Part 2 is the wicked. Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” Evidently there is only one resurrection albeit involving two separated aspects: “they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

There is no 1,000 years’ separation mentioned or hinted at in here.

There is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation. Acts 24:15 says, “there shall be a resurrection of the dead (singular), both of the just and unjust.”

This verse speaks of a singular “resurrection of the dead” not multiple resurrections (plural) of the dead as the Premillennialist would try and intimate. The fact that Paul differentiates between the wicked and the righteous in no way proves that these are two separate resurrections coming at the end of two separate ages split by 1,000 years+ of history (filled with all the produce of the curse – sin, death and corruption). No, it simply demonstrates that there are two types of resurrection in the one final resurrection of the dead at the end. In fact, for Premils to insist on their concept is to force something into the passage that doesn’t truly exist. Scripture constantly distinguishes between the wicked and the righteous even though they are found participating in the same event at the same time. Why would anyone think it strange that the Holy Spirit would identify the two different parties that take part in the general “resurrection of the dead”? After all, it is a normal biblical procedure to distinguish between these two conflicting camps. Although to suggest that the identifying of these two distinct parties indicates two separate events at two separate times is illogical.

Once again, there is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation.