Conflating Jesus' Second Coming with the Scorched Earth is not possible

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let me get this straight.
Christ dies and rises and when he ascends, he is reigning.
Now that he left, the Gospel is in its purest form at least for the next 100 years. That same hundred years and whatever after, Satan is sealed.

Not sealed in the way you think. You are the one who thinks that him being bound has to do with him being completely incapacitated, not me. I believe his binding relates to passages like these:

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Acts 26:15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ “ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

So you're telling, all the persecution the early church had: the prison, the beatings, floggings, decapitations, crucifying, fed to animals, tarred and burned alive was during the time Satan is sealed?

Yes, because his binding has nothing to do with his ability to persecute people. Where does it say he would be bound from doing that? Nowhere. It says he would be bound from deceiving people which I don't see as referring to his general ability to deceive, but rather to his ability to keep the world in spiritual darkness the way he was able to do in Old Testament times before Christ came to "break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death".

The distortion of the Gospel afterwards, the heresies and such as well. Because Satan was not sealed before Christ ascended, while Satan roamed, the early Christians didn't have any problems; not till he was sealed according to you. Satan free, no problem. Satan sealed, problem. It isn't logical. Satan wasn't involved in Nazi Germany? Satan wasnt involved with LGBTQIA? Satan wasnt involved with distorting God's word? Satan wasnt involved with Muslim's killing Christians?

Again, his binding is not about his general ability to deceive, but about his ability to keep the light of God's word from being spread throughout the world which has lead multitudes to be saved and set free from the penalty of sin for the past 2,000 years or so.

1 Peter 5 says the devil is still prowling around seeking who he can devour. That doesnt sound like someone in prison. I know if I am locked up, I cant prowl around devouring people in the world.

You assume it's talking about him being completely incapacitated, but that isn't what his binding is about.

Let me go back to that verse in Rev 20.

those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

After Christ ascended, he was reigning according to you.

No, that is according to scripture.

Please read this:

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

This passage indicates that God the Father placed His Son Jesus Christ "far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked...in the present age" when "he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms". And it says that "God placed all things under his feet".

When did the beast and its image and its mark show up? When did the man of sin show up? By saying Christ reigns now, you are making the beast of the sea, the image of the 1st beast, the mark of the first beast and the beast of the earth all prior to Christ ascension even though Revelation wasnt written till about 96AD and it was concerning John's future.

You assume it's all about the future, but I disagree with your assumptions.

If "these did not worship the beast or its image or its mark", and youre saying this event is symbolic, youre implying this event which is most of the prophecy of Revelation finished at the cross. Who was the man of sin? Who was the false prophet?

These are loaded questions that take a lot of time to answer, so I will just give a general answer for now. I do not see all of that as being finished at the cross. I see the beast as generally referring to Satan's kingdom or the world in the same sense that Jesus talked about "the world" here:

John 15:18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

In Revelation 13 it indicates that all whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast. All unbelievers belong to the world while unbelievers do not belong to the world and we are instead chosen out of the world. Satan is the god of this evil world so that's why the beast gets its power and authority from the dragon, Satan.

As far as the man of sin, I don't see that as referring to an individual man. The following passage refers to "the man of God", but we know it's referring to the people of God in a general sense rather than to an individual man.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I'm not saying that this passage relates to the man of sin, I'm simply using this passage to show that just as "the man of God" is not referring to an individual man here, I believe "the man of sin" is also not referring to an individual man, but rather to sinful people in general. In 2 Thess 2 Paul talks about a mass falling away occurring before the return of Christ so I believe Paul is talking about people deciding that they don't need God anymore and they leave the church (the temple of God) while essentially declaring themselves to be God (since they indicate that they don't need God).

If John was told that 7 heads of the dragon existed and 5 were fallen and 1 is in John's time...how is Satan sealed at 96AD if 1 "is" and the other has yet to come? That is a 60+ year difference from Christ ascending to John receiving Revelation and the dragon still roams with 2 heads that still wear 2 crowns. Think about that!

Think about what now? I don't even know what you were trying to say here. Can you try again? You know that the beast was in the bottomless pit at the time John wrote the book, don't you? That is what is indicated in Revelation 17:8. I believe if the beast is in the abyss/bottomless pit then it only follows that Satan is as well since they work together.

 

[robert derrick]

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Lord's return onto Mt Olivet, will be as lightning brightening all the sky.

Not hard to miss that one.

Also, His glory will be on the throneroom of His temple at Zion.

Everyone on earth will know His return and who is sitting there.

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

 

[robert derrick]

Because Abraham is dead and will not be raised until after the Millennium.
All the righteous, faithful Christians will inherit all of the holy Land. Isaiah 65:9, Ephesians 1:10-14

I see. You are speaking of Christian saints ruling with Christ over the earth, before the resurrection of their bodies?

The problem is that resurrection is with His return into the air.

All saints, whether dead in Christ, or alive and remaining on earth at His return, will be resurrected before His reign on earth with them.

 

[robert derrick]

Grow up. That is not what is happening here. We all know there is at least some symbolism in the book of Revelation. Why do you act as if symbolism is a bad thing? Such nonsense.

Once again. A purposed misreading of what others say.

No one denies symbolism used in much OT and NT Scripture. But making events symbol ponly, because of symbols used to describe how that come to pass, is the error of them that don't want to believe the plain meaning of their events.

People do so with a tormenting hell, as well as the Lord's reign on earth.

You're all talk. You back it up with nothing.

As seen above. You do with others' writings as well.

It says that in the most highly symbolic book in all of scripture. So, when it says the meek shall inherit the earth, they will only inherit it for a short time instead of for eternity? Is that what you believe?

Yes. They will inherit the earth being reigned over by the Lord, as well as the new earth.

Since the Lord obviously so desires to rule over all this present earth, that He has so much Scripture prophesying it. It obviously means much to Him to do so.

I have no problem with that. Nor with waiting a thousand years after our resurrection, before being on the new earth with Him.

Afterall, it will only be as but a day to us.

If so, then you are turning that promise into something that is not that big of a deal,

Not to you. But to Abraham, yes. And Job, yes, And me, yes.

Here we see your attitude of belittling something for others, that you don't personally care about.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

This shows Abraham rejoicing to see the Lord's day standing and reigning on earth, and giving him the land he walked on earth.

He did not see Jesus' day on earth coming in the flesh.

Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

I would be more than glad to rejoice with him. Afterall, being in the first resurrection is the hugest thing of all for me, and I don't take it for granted.

That is more huge than any old earth or new, and so I have absolutely no problem rejoicing on earth during the Lord's reign.

Scripture very clearly teaches that He reigns now and that we reign with Him now, so that is what I preach.

True. But I don't need to trash His reign on earth after our resurrection, in order to do so. In fact, the gospel is first about preaching our spiritual resurrection and soul, to be made free from sinning, and having power to remain free from sinning.

The Lord's reign on earth with us, is simply a learning lesson to reigning with Him forever on the new earth.

Even as reigning with Him now over our own lives and households, is a learning lesson to reign with Him over this earth.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

And as Paul says, we don't yet see Him doing that over all the earth. Yet.

But we do see Jesus and know how He will reign over all the earth, even as we know how He reigns over us now on earth.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Amen.

His kingdom on earth now in flesh and blood, is His saints only.

His kingdom on earth then with flesh and blood, will be all people of the earth.

His spiritual everlasting kingdom is His Spirit in heaven, and dwelling in His people on earth.

His earthly kingdom is of His flesh and of His bones today, and will be over all flesh and bones in that day of His return.

Perhaps the reason some Christians don't want to believe in His earthly reign, is because they are too lazy to ever have to make the distinction.

And Christians don't have to teach His earthly reign over all people at His return, in order to rightly teach His earthly reign over His church today. But teaching against it, is going out of the way to disanull it.

Just because they don't personally think it's a big deal.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Once again. A purposed misreading of what others say.

No one denies symbolism used in much OT and NT Scripture. But making events symbol ponly, because of symbols used to describe how that come to pass, is the error of them that don't want to believe the plain meaning of their events.

LOL. What? Who made you the ultimate authority on what is supposedly plainly written or not?

People do so with a tormenting hell, as well as the Lord's reign on earth.

The Lord reigns now over all things. When He returns at the end of the age, He will deliver His kingdom to the Father (1 Cor 15:22-24, Matthew 13:40-43).

As seen above. You do with others' writings as well.

I consistenly back up my view with scripture, so you don't know what you're talking about.

Yes. They will inherit the earth being reigned over by the Lord, as well as the new earth.

But, you believe they will only inherit the earth for a temporary amount of time, right? Since it will be later destroyed. That's not really something that exciting to look forward to then. Peter, on the other hand, said we should be looking forward to the new heavens and new earth where righteousness dwells in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming (2 Peter 3:13). You are looking forward to something else in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming.

Since the Lord obviously so desires to rule over all this present earth, that He has so much Scripture prophesying it. It obviously means much to Him to do so.

So much scripture prophesying it? Such as?

I have no problem with that. Nor with waiting a thousand years after our resurrection, before being on the new earth with Him.

Afterall, it will only be as but a day to us.

No, a thousand years is like a day TO THE LORD, not to us. Don't try to equate yourself with the Lord.

Not to you. But to Abraham, yes. And Job, yes, And me, yes.

To you, yes. To Abraham, Job and other OT saints? No. Have you never read this:

Hebrews 11:
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore. 13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Abraham is not looking to inherit some temporary piece of land that will later be burned up. So, why are you? You should be like him and the other OT saints who realized that they should instead look "forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God" and to "a better country--a heavenly one".

Here we see your attitude of belittling something for others, that you don't personally care about.

No, I belittle false teaching. If it was true, I would care about it.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

This shows Abraham rejoicing to see the Lord's day standing and reigning on earth, and giving him the land he walked on earth.

What?! That is not at all what Jesus was saying there. He was talking about His day in the present there. The day/time period during which He would come to bring salvation to the world. He did that long ago! You should know that.

He did not see Jesus' day on earth coming in the flesh.

Yes, he did. What are you talking about here?

Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

I would be more than glad to rejoice with him. Afterall, being in the first resurrection is the hugest thing of all for me, and I don't take it for granted.

We all have part in the first resurrection because scripture teaches that Christ's resurrection was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20, Col 1:18, Rev 1:5) and we all spiritually have part in His resurrection.

True. But I don't need to trash His reign on earth after our resurrection, in order to do so. In fact, the gospel is first about preaching our spiritual resurrection and soul, to be made free from sinning, and having power to remain free from sinning.

I don't "trash" anything that will actually happen.

The Lord's reign on earth with us, is simply a learning lesson to reigning with Him forever on the new earth.

Where is this taught in scripture?

Even as reigning with Him now over our own lives and households, is a learning lesson to reign with Him over this earth.

And where is this taught in scripture? All I see are your opinions without any scriptural support being offered to back them up.

And as Paul says, we don't yet see Him doing that over all the earth. Yet.

What are you referring to here exactly?

But we do see Jesus and know how He will reign over all the earth, even as we know how He reigns over us now on earth.

He reigns over all the earth now (Matt 28:18, Eph 1:19-22, etc.) but just not in the way you want Him to.

Amen.

His kingdom on earth now in flesh and blood, is His saints only.

His kingdom on earth then with flesh and blood, will be all people of the earth.

Paul taught that mortal flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 15:50). Your belief contradicts what he taught.

His spiritual everlasting kingdom is His Spirit in heaven, and dwelling in His people on earth.

His earthly kingdom is of His flesh and of His bones today, and will be over all flesh and bones in that day of His return.

Perhaps the reason some Christians don't want to believe in His earthly reign, is because they are too lazy to ever have to make the distinction.

No, the reason is that it's not taught in scripture. Again, what you're saying is contradicting the fact that mortal flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. But, you say it will. You are blatantly contradicting scripture and you don't even care.

And Christians don't have to teach His earthly reign over all people at His return, in order to rightly teach His earthly reign over His church today. But teaching against it, is going out of the way to disanull it.

What are you talking about here?

Just because they don't personally think it's a big deal.

It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with it not being taught in scripture. If it was taught in scripture, then we would believe it is a big deal. But, it's not.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I see. You are speaking of Christian saints ruling with Christ over the earth, before the resurrection of their bodies?

The problem is that resurrection is with His return into the air.

All saints, whether dead in Christ, or alive and remaining on earth at His return, will be resurrected before His reign on earth with them.

Do you mean "changed" instead of "resurrected"? Living saints can't be resurrected since they aren't dead.

 

[robert derrick]

LOL. What? Who made you the ultimate authority on what is supposedly plainly written or not?

You purposely misstate what I write. I've seen you do it with others also.

It's the tactic of making something seem absurd, by changing it to something else.

In other words, you you say about my teaching is not what I write, but what you make to be absurd.

Saying that I somehow don't agree there is any symbolism in Scripture, is false, and would be absurd for anyone to think so.

The Lord reigns now over all things. When He returns at the end of the age, He will deliver His kingdom to the Father (1 Cor 15:22-24, Matthew 13:40-43).

And so you don't know the difference between God having all power over all things, and yet not using it to reign over them Personally.

The Lord isn't now personally ruling the households of the wicked.

I consistenly back up my view with scripture, so you don't know what you're talking about.


But, you believe they will only inherit the earth for a temporary amount of time, right? Since it will be later destroyed. That's not really something that exciting to look forward to then.

Already rebuked your belittling of things for others, that you don't care about.

So much scripture prophesying it? Such as?

The Lord will stand upon the Mt of Olives. The Lord will roar out of Zion. The nations left after His return, will celebrate the feast of tabernacles with Him.

Stuff like that. There's plenty more. But you'd just symbolize them into fables, or just put them on the new earth only.

No, a thousand years is like a day TO THE LORD, not to us. Don't try to equate yourself with the Lord.

And so, you see how you are as sloppy with words of others, as you are with Scripture.

I was speaking of course after our bodily resurrection.

And I do equate myself with the Lord, in the Lord, saved of the Lord, and walking with the Lord Jesus hand in hand.

Abraham is not looking to inherit some temporary piece of land that will later be burned up. So, why are you? You should be like him and the other OT saints who realized that they should instead look "forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God" and to "a better country--a heavenly one".

Not inherit som much as being given it to own for himself.

Which you despise. Probably, because it's not going to be given to you.

What?! That is not at all what Jesus was saying there. He was talking about His day in the present there.

He saw the Lord's day on earth, which included in the flesh on earth, and returning to rule over all flesh on earth.

the Lord's day is three events: coming first in the flesh. Returning second resurrected, and sending fire from heaven to the earth.

Yes, he did. What are you talking about here?

You congratulate yourself for teaching the gospel of spiritual resurrection, with the Lord's reign over our personal lives.

I teach both the gospel today, and the good news of His earthly reigning over all people.

We all have part in the first resurrection because scripture teaches that Christ's resurrection was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20, Col 1:18, Rev 1:5) and we all spiritually have part in His resurrection.

True. But Rev 20 is the end of this first resurrection, which is bodily for the saints all at once, to be made bodily in the likeness of Jesus' resurrection.

That will be at His second coming, when Satan is shut up from off the earth.

Where is this taught in scripture?

If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

We are being prepared for His coming again to reign with Him and judge the earth.

That reign ngon this earth will prepare for the eternal new earth.

What are you referring to here exactly?

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

All things are subject to the King, but not all subjects obey the King, as we see on earth.

In the day of His personal kingship and rule over all the earth, we will see all people made subject to Him, whether to be blessed in His law, or to be executed by His law.

The law on other men still reigns on this earth.

Paul taught that mortal flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 15:50). Your belief contradicts what he taught.

Not Spiritual kingdom of God that is Spirit and in heaven, and in them that He dwells in.

His earthly kingdom is not He everlasting heavenly kingdom.

It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with it not being taught in scripture. If it was taught in scripture, then we would believe it is a big deal. But, it's not.

You ask why we would want to only reign temporarily on earth, when the new earth is come. As well as why would Abraham care about receiving land on this earth promised to Him by the Lord.

You show your contempt for His earthly reign for only a mere thousand years, as well as Abraham rejoicing to see it.

Words mean things, because they are mirrors to the soul.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

For some reason you see Abraham receiving the land he walked on, as contemptible. And so you are so zealous to deny it to him.

I would say it's simply because it isn't you receiving it, and so what does it matter to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You purposely misstate what I write. I've seen you do it with others also.

No, I do not. I do not appreciate your false accusations. If I misstate something you've said then it would only be by mistake. I am a Christian. I believe in having integrity. So, I have not done what you falsely accuse me of doing.

It's the tactic of making something seem absurd, by changing it to something else.

How have I done that?

In other words, you you say about my teaching is not what I write, but what you make to be absurd.

You keep saying this without explaining exactly what you mean. Whatever it is, I didn't do it purposely.

Saying that I somehow don't agree there is any symbolism in Scripture, is false, and would be absurd for anyone to think so.

When did I say that?

And so you don't know the difference between God having all power over all things, and yet not using it to reign over them Personally.

He can reign over someone by way of being in charge of what He allows that person to do or not do. He does not have to control someone like a puppet master in order to reign over them.

The Lord will stand upon the Mt of Olives. The Lord will roar out of Zion.

He already did that long ago. Try to catch up.

The nations left after His return, will celebrate the feast of tabernacles with Him.

Do you understand that observing the feast of tabernacles involves performing animal sacrifices? Why in the world would Jesus approve of reinstating animal sacrifices when He already long ago made the "once for all" sacrifice for sin?

Stuff like that. There's plenty more. But you'd just symbolize them into fables, or just put them on the new earth only.

And so, you see how you are as sloppy with words of others, as you are with Scripture.

You are a child who is in way over his head on this forum. You constantly misrepresent what others believe and you are seemingly incapable of making coherent arguments using scripture. You should step back and take some time to find out what others believe before debating them.

I was speaking of course after our bodily resurrection.

If we are taking part in the thousand years in the future, as you believe, then why would we have no concept of time passing during that time? That makes no sense.

And I do equate myself with the Lord, in the Lord, saved of the Lord, and walking with the Lord Jesus hand in hand.

You know what I mean and it wasn't that.

Not inherit som much as being given it to own for himself.

Which you despise. Probably, because it's not going to be given to you.

LOL. You are just a child. You say the most ridiculous, childish things I've ever seen. Well, I shouldn't say that. There a few others just like you on here who act like immature children who should be grounded.

Why would you think that things Abraham will inherit will not be inherited by me as well? Scripture teaches that the promises God made to Abraham and his seed were made to Christ and those who belong to Christ (Gal 3:16-29).

You congratulate yourself for teaching the gospel of spiritual resurrection, with the Lord's reign over our personal lives.

I teach both the gospel today, and the good news of His earthly reigning over all people.

I teach that He will rid the world of sin and death once and for all when He returns at the end of the age. He very clearly taught the unbelievers will be cast into the fire at that time (Matt 13:40-43, Matt 13:47-50, Matt 25:31-46) and not 1,000+ years later as you believe.

True. But Rev 20 is the end of this first resurrection, which is bodily for the saints all at once, to be made bodily in the likeness of Jesus' resurrection.

That will be at His second coming, when Satan is shut up from off the earth.

Again, Christ's resurrection is the first resurrection. So, the resurrection that takes place at His return cannot be the first resurrection.

If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

We are being prepared for His coming again to reign with Him and judge the earth.

That reign ngon this earth will prepare for the eternal new earth.

Why is any preparation necessary for the eternal new earth? God doesn't need that.

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

All things are subject to the King, but not all subjects obey the King, as we see on earth.

Scripture doesn't teach that everyone on earth will ever obey the King. That is what He will destroy those who don't obey Him when He returns. They have been given plenty of chances to repent. Why would He need to give them any more time after His return to do that?

In the day of His personal kingship and rule over all the earth, we will see all people made subject to Him, whether to be blessed in His law, or to be executed by His law.

Where is this taught in scripture? You continue to throw your opinions out there without providing any scriptural support for them. That makes it impossible to take you seriously.

The law on other men still reigns on this earth.


Not Spiritual kingdom of God that is Spirit and in heaven, and in them that He dwells in.

His earthly kingdom is not He everlasting heavenly kingdom.


You ask why we would want to only reign temporarily on earth, when the new earth is come. As well as why would Abraham care about receiving land on this earth promised to Him by the Lord.

You show your contempt for His earthly reign for only a mere thousand years, as well as Abraham rejoicing to see it.

Words mean things, because they are mirrors to the soul.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

For some reason you see Abraham receiving the land he walked on, as contemptible. And so you are so zealous to deny it to him.

I would say it's simply because it isn't you receiving it, and so what does it matter to you.

This is ridiculous. Why wouldn't I receive it if that were to happen, knowing that God's promises to Abraham and his seed apply to all of those who belong to Christ (Galatians 3:29)? You are unbelievably ignorant.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Lord's return onto Mt Olivet, will be as lightning brightening all the sky.

Not hard to miss that one.

Also, His glory will be on the throneroom of His temple at Zion.

Everyone on earth will know His return and who is sitting there.

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom Seen, After The Day Of The Lord

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Think about what now? I don't even know what you were trying to say here. Can you try again? You know that the beast was in the bottomless pit at the time John wrote the book, don't you? That is what is indicated in Revelation 17:8. I believe if the beast is in the abyss/bottomless pit then it only follows that Satan is as well since they work together.

You’re saying Satan was bound at the cross. John was given a future prophecy about 96AD. In it, he was told of the Dragon (Satan) with 7 heads. He was told 5 are fallen, 1 is and the other hasn’t come yet.

How is Satan sealed in 96AD, about 66 years after the cross, when 1 head exists in John’s time?

If the head existed, Satan was not sealed because the head that existed belonged to the dragon.

 

[ewq1938]

You’re saying Satan was bound at the cross. John was given a future prophecy about 96AD. In it, he was told of the Dragon (Satan) with 7 heads. He was told 5 are fallen, 1 is and the other hasn’t come yet.

He was not told that. Satan was shown to him with all 7 heads fully intact, same with teh ten horned beast also having all 7 heads. No heads fallen, falling or shown to fall anywhere in the book. Heads do not fall.

 

[No Pre-TB]

He was not told that. Satan was shown to him with all 7 heads fully intact, same with teh ten horned beast also having all 7 heads. No heads fallen, falling or shown to fall anywhere in the book. Heads do not fall.

Yes he was:

five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come. Rev 17:10

I was quoting it

 

[ewq1938]

Yes he was:

five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come. Rev 17:10

I was quoting it

That's not speaking of the 7 heads of satan or the Rev 13 beast. They are shown with ALL SEVEN HEADS not only some of their heads. Obviously there is no match!

 

[robert derrick]

Do you mean "changed" instead of "resurrected"? Living saints can't be resurrected since they aren't dead.

True. But since the first resurrection includes all the dead in christ and them changed at His return, it's generally spoken of as the resurrection of the church, and they all are in the air with the Lord.

 

[robert derrick]

No, I do not. I do not appreciate your false accusations. If I misstate something you've said then it would only be by mistake. I am a Christian. I believe in having integrity. So, I have not done what you falsely accuse me of doing.

No one is talking about being a Christian or not, but how people read the words of others, to understand them or not. It has nothing to do with being Christian or agreeing.

You do it often, and you say it is not on purpose. But you are just not able to read them rightly.

That is because all you see is your own doctrine, much like the Jews that still read the OT with the veil of Moses over their faces.

How have I done that?

One example by you or another of your fellow teachers, says it is absurd to think the Lord slaughters the armies with a sword sticking out of His mouth.

Which naturally it is. But that does not negate the fact that He will slaughter those armies, and the fowls will feed on their flesh.

It's called making something absurd that isn't said, in order to make what is said absurd.

It's the false use of Ad Absurdum, by drawing an absurd conclusion, that has nothing to do with what is being said.

When did I say that?

By talking about how some people seem to reject any Scripture being symbolic, in context of responding to me.

The supposition does not exist with anyone I've heard, and certainly not with me.

He can reign over someone by way of being in charge of what He allows that person to do or not do.

True. He will do so by rule of His rod over all people on the earth. He does not do so now.

Man still has rule of their own law and power over earth.

He does not have to control someone like a puppet master in order to reign over them.

Yes He does, when that someone rebels over His rule and law of His kingdom.

You call it puppet mastering: Scripture calls it being King of Kings over His own earthly kingdom.

The Lord will stand upon the Mt of Olives. The Lord will roar out of Zion.

He already did that long ago. Try to catch up.

And so, a symbolic prophecy to you is now said to be fulfilled symbolically with Jesus' first coming.

The Scripture is plainly in context of His second coming.

He lifted up His voice on that great day of the feast, but no Scripture says He has yet to roar out of Zion, nor descend and stand on Olivet.

Do you understand that observing the feast of tabernacles involves performing animal sacrifices?

Yes. They are spoken of specifically.

It is also said that none of His priests will enter His temple to serve Him, who is not both outwardly and inwardly circumcised.

Inward circumcision can only be that of the Spirit of Christ, after His resurrection. They will have the circumcision of Christ without hands, just like any sanctified believer today.

Why in the world would Jesus approve of reinstating animal sacrifices when He already long ago made the "once for all" sacrifice for sin?

Ask Him. You can also ask Him why He would bother reigning over the earth personally for only a thousand years, which you say is not worth it.

You also try to speak for Abraham, when you say he doesn't care about receiving the land promised he walked on.

Just because you don't.

If we are taking part in the thousand years in the future, as you believe, then why would we have no concept of time passing during that time? That makes no sense.

No time is in heaven only, not on this earth, nor on the new earth. Resurrected saints reigning on earth with Him, will know the time and day for a thousand years, because being with the Lord in their resurrected bodies, they will be as the Lord in living a thousand years as but one day.

Jesus walked on the earth after His resurrection, and no doubt it was but an hour for Him, while it was certainly 40 days for His disciples, who also saw is come to pass all too quickly.

Time flies when we're having fun, especially with bodily resurrected fun.

Why would you think that things Abraham will inherit will not be inherited by me as well? Scripture teaches that the promises God made to Abraham and his seed were made to Christ and those who belong to Christ (Gal 3:16-29).

It's not the inheritance of the saints according to covenant promise, but is land specifically promise to Abraham personally as a Friend of God.

You may not be allowed to see it by the Lord, since you belittle it so much.

Again, Christ's resurrection is the first resurrection. So, the resurrection that takes place at His return cannot be the first resurrection.

If you are saying the bodily resurrection of Christ is already coming to pass for His people's bodies, then you are teaching the resurrection is past.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The first bodily resurrection is of Jesus Christ, and the first bodily resurrection of all His saints, is in Rev 20 in the air.

Why is any preparation necessary for the eternal new earth? God doesn't need that.

We do.

Scripture doesn't teach that everyone on earth will ever obey the King.

That's true. That's why sentence will be executed speedily during His reign, and not unjustly delayed by tactics of men.

He'll also will forbid it to rain over whole nations, that do not take part in the feast of tabernacles yearly.

Why would He need to give them any more time after His return to do that?

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He is longsuffering to us, that His own people repent before His coming and cutting off His disobedient servants.

He will be longsuffering for the natural men on earth to repent likewise, during His reign.

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.


He came to save the first time, and He will also do so the second time, during His reign over them.

One obvious and plain reason for His millennial reign on earth, while Satan himself is shut up from tempting any man to sin, is to save more souls than ever.

At this time, He saves by the ministry of His saints, but at that time He will save by His own perfect ministering and rule.

Those who don't care about that, are still wondering why He would bother reigning on this earth, or why Abraham would care to recieved from God his Friend, the promised land he walked on.

In this matter, you and me are absolutely not of the same spirit.

Where is this taught in scripture? You continue to throw your opinions out there without providing any scriptural support for them. That makes it impossible to take you seriously.

I don't care if you take me seriously. I've said that in several ways already.

This is ridiculous. Why wouldn't I receive it if that were to happen, knowing that God's promises to Abraham and his seed apply to all of those who belong to Christ (Galatians 3:29)? You are unbelievably ignorant.

When you question why it would happen, based upon your own personal desires, you are no longer arguing if it will happen, but only why, based upon your own personal desires.

I.e. you show it is not just a matter of simple Scriptural argument, but it is a personal issue you have with it.

That proves personal bias in reading and teaching of Scripture.

 

[Keraz]

True. But since the first resurrection includes all the dead in christ and them changed at His return, it's generally spoken of as the resurrection of the church, and they all are in the air with the Lord.

THIS is your, and many others too; big mistake.
Jesus does NOT resurrect ALL Christians at His Return. Revelation 20:4-6, is very clear: ONLY the martyrs killed during the 42 month rule of the 'beast' are brought back to life at that time.
All of the Prophesies about our resurrection from the dead, refer to the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.

It will be the living saints, along with the GT martyrs, who will be the Lord's priests and co-rulers for the Millennium. Revelation 5:10

 

[Timtofly]

Think about what now? I don't even know what you were trying to say here. Can you try again? You know that the beast was in the bottomless pit at the time John wrote the book, don't you? That is what is indicated in Revelation 17:8. I believe if the beast is in the abyss/bottomless pit then it only follows that Satan is as well since they work together.

The beast was the Roman Empire at that time. How was the power of Rome locked away in the pit at that time?

"And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Rome was the beast at the time of John's writing. The ten toes was the 5th beast. The beast was not in the pit in the first century. This beast that was in the pit is called the 8th and of the 7, but only in part. This beast is about power, not an individual.

Once again you avoid pointing out who the harlot is, and who the beast are. The harlot is not riding on Satan. There is no proof that Satan was ever bound in the pit. If so, it would have been after the ten toes, not prior to the ten toes. The pit is Satan's home anyways. He can come and go as he pleases. The 6th and 7th beast have not even appeared. They come at the Second Coming. The image in Daniel 2 only covers 5 out of 7 beast of power or human government. When the 7th Trumpet sounds, only then do we get the 6th and 7th beast.

The 6th or 7th would be the beast the harlot is riding on. Satan ascending out of the pit, could be the same as the beast coming out of the ground in Revelation 13, as the pit is also under the ground. The pit was also opened in the 5th Trumpet. All could come and go, it seems, from the pit at that point. But certainly not the little season found in Revelation 20. No one is being tormented on earth in Revelation 20, because the pit was opened. Satan was unbound, not the pit itself opened. If the 8th beast is an individual it could be either the FP, the beast, or Satan. All three are associated with the word perdition.

Since you don't like me asking you questions, that you refuse to answer anyway, I will point out you are plain wrong that Satan was ever bound in the past. He can ascend and descend into sheol, the pit, whenever he wants to.

Satan is called a beast and a dragon, and ascends out of the pit. The 8th beast represents power, not really an individual. So the power was what is being mentioned as is, is not, and is again. Not Satan's power. The power and authority of human government.

Many want to claim Britain, the US, or Islam was or can be associated as having authority over the whole world, like the empires of Daniel 2. That is not reality, as no one since the Reformation has really controlled the same area, much less the entire earth. So since the Reformation there has been no beast. That was the condition of "is not". That will change after the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. That is when the 6th and 7th beast come about, and the harlot is riding on one of them. And they only have full authority during the 42 months that are allowed to Satan at the 7th Trumpet.

That is why the time of the dragon is short at the end of Revelation 12. Then Satan brings about this beast in Revelation 13, and this government is under control of the FP. Since a prophet represents a religious connotation, the harlot represents religion as an authority. At least until that religious authority is destroyed by the kingdom no longer in need of any religious influence. By the end of thec42 months all worship and follow Satan. There is no religion nor human government. Those last 10 kings or nations join Satan in the battle of Armageddon for one hour. The last of Adam's dead corruptible flesh is destroyed then by the Lamb. There is no more human government of Adam's descendants at that point. That is when the beast and the FP are cast into the LOF, and Satan is bound for 1,000 years.

If you are saying this all takes place in the first century, then Rome would have been long gone, and out of the picture.

 

[No Pre-TB]

That's not speaking of the 7 heads of satan or the Rev 13 beast. They are shown with ALL SEVEN HEADS not only some of their heads. Obviously there is no match!

That is speaking of the 7 heads.
Rev 17
The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Isaiah 7:8 shows heads are the Capital City and it’s ruler.

Five rulers have died. The heads lose authority. One King is during John’s time. That head has authority meaning Satan is present because he’s part of the heads. All 7 heads hadn’t lost their authority in John’s time. It’s impossible for Satan to be sealed and all the 7 heads not to lost their authority

 

[robert derrick]

THIS is your, and many others too; big mistake.
Jesus does NOT resurrect ALL Christians at His Return. Revelation 20:4-6, is very clear: ONLY the martyrs killed during the 42 month rule of the 'beast' are brought back to life at that time.
All of the Prophesies about our resurrection from the dead, refer to the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.

It will be the living saints, along with the GT martyrs, who will be the Lord's priests and co-rulers for the Millennium. Revelation 5:10

Paul said he and we would have part in that resurrection at the Lord's return. 1 Cor 15, and I Thess 4.

Jesus also says He will return to receive us in John 14.

The second coming of the Lord is not after His earthly reign, and so neither is the resurrection of His saints to meet Him in the air.

I can go along with jesus' own resurrection being the first part of the resurrection of the saints.

But not there being two different parts of our resurrection, with two different comings of the Lord to meet Him in the air.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

You need to repent of your arrogance. Why are you acting as if you know me when you clearly do not? My beliefs aren't based on men's traditions whatsoever. And I believe the Holy Spirit has shown me things every bit as much as you think He has shown you things. And, yet, we disagree on some things. So, one of us is erroneously thinking that the Holy Spirit is showing us things that are actually coming from our own imaginations or somewhere else.

So I should lie and tell people I don't know these things when I do? Sounds like fakery to me. As per what I have read via your posts I see confusion in large part tbh. It doesn't really matter what you believe , I mean Joseph Smith believed and we wound up with the Mormons. I do not stake my understandings on your opinions. The Holy Spirit testifies of the truth at all times. The problem is some people allow Satan to whisper deception unto them. It is what it is, and I see it coming a mile away, I have the Holy Spirit radar.

No, it is not. You are not nearly as easy to follow as you think you are.

Not for you. But I am correct, so that is not really relevant is it.