Conflating Jesus' Second Coming with the Scorched Earth is not possible

[ewq1938]

Yes you're living in denial, scripture has been clearly presented to you that shows Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

There is no scripture showing that because all the relevant scriptures of the second coming do not show that happening.

 

[ewq1938]

This earth will be "Dissolved" by the Lord's fire in judgement, the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, will be a completely New Creation

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Events that happen LONG after the second coming in the Rev 21 timeframe.

 

[robert derrick]

Where in 2 Peter and Jude does it say that the earth "will remain with all sinning angels and men, in the blackness of darkness forever"? This sounds like another invention of yours. Who needs Scripture when you have such a liberal approach to truth?

Read them.

This is a teaching I'm not going to pursue with you.

it's hard enough to teach you on simpler matters, like the Lord's earthly reign.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[robert derrick]

Yes you're living in denial, scripture has been clearly presented to you that shows Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

You want to erase this biblical truth in maintaining your false beliefs and teachings of a Kingdom on this earth at the return of Jesus "False"!

The Eternal Kingdom is seen in Ezekiel Chapters 47-48 regarding the division of land for inheritance in the "New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem"

"The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth"

Ezekiel 47:12-14KJV
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
13 Thus saith the Lord God; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.
14 And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.

"The Eternal New Jerusalem"

Ezekiel 48:29-35KJV
29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord God.
30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.
31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.
32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.
33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.
34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.
35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.

"The Eternal New Jerusalem"

Revelation 21:10-14KJV
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Disagree. Resurrected Abraham will be given the land promised to him, that he walked upon in the days of his flesh.

 

[Truth7t7]

Disagree. Resurrected Abraham will be given the land promised to him, that he walked upon in the days of his flesh.

Your claims are false, this earth will be dissolved by fire at the Lord's return (The End)

Of course you deny the Lord's fire in final judgment that you have been shown, as if it's non-existant in scripture

You have a pre-determined bias in a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, giving complete disregard to biblical truth

 

[ewq1938]

Your claims are false, this earth will be dissolved by fire at the Lord's return (The End)

Not according to the bible. That only happens LONG after the second coming.

 

[Keraz]

Disagree. Resurrected Abraham will be given the land promised to him, that he walked upon in the days of his flesh.

The hol;y Land is Promised to Abraham's children. Genesis 15:18 ...unto thy seed...... KJV
You are wrong and a retraction for misquoting the Bible is required from you.

Who are the 'seed' of Abraham? Galatians 3:26-29 makes it abundantly clear that WE Christians thru Jesus; are the true SEED, and the inheritors of all the holy Land. Psalms 37:29

 

[robert derrick]

Then the harlot and the beast including the ten kings are all the same, with no distinction between harlot and the beast she is on?

True. The harlot is not the literal head of the beast, and the beast has his own heads.

Then the beast cannot destroy the harlot. It would be like a person destroying their heart, and then expecting to keep going without a heart. Symbolically that would work, but what is your literal point? Humans stopped thinking with their heart, and lost all humanity in Revelation 17? Armageddon is not necessary to just cut out one's heart.

Evil rulers have been known to destroy their own rule and people, such as Hitler. They don't take defeat honorably.

Historically martyrs were produced because of a religious ideology, not necessarily a political agenda. People don't get into heaven because they have a political difference of opinion. Believers are martyred, because they refuse to accept man's doctrine and instead hold to the Word of God. Literally it was the heretics who killed believers, not the other way around.

Exactly. The first martyr was Abel, who was slain by Cain over what a proper sacrifice is to the Lord.

The beast is an antichrist, not an antiamerican. (Though they are both evil )

The beast first makes war with the saints doctrinally, and then bodily.

Cain talked with Abel first, and then killed him when he wouldn't agree.

We see the same hateful spirit on this sight. We see people that want to have other shut down, because we don't agree with them.

The beast is a childish spiteful ridiculously destructive fool and cult leader, who is given power to kill them that refuse his mark.

I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

No follower of Christ killed a heretic. They were told to stop having fellowship with them. I think in online lingo that is called the ignore list. But to admit to defeating other posters, is typically a heretical point of view killing a Scriptural view.

Exactly right. We are to simple reject them and move on.

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

On this sight, one of the biggest lessons to learn is to not go down the road of endlessly useless debate.

The normal progression of error always gets to a point where politics eventually wipes out religion, and replaces faith with ideology. Because Satan knows faith in God starts at the individual level, and if he can take away individuals and replace them with community, then people can trust government and not their relationship with God. Eventually Satan will replace even false religion with a total lack of religion.

True. You have it nailed. However, it's the ideology that only remains, and all feeling of affection and brotherly kindness is lost.

I was in a Pentecostal holiness and organizational cult once, that was started by one man. The great Pastor become the head of the bbody, replacing Jesus Christ as Head of the church.

It doesn't happen overnight, but is a gradual downhill slide. I don't believe any person wakes up one morning and decides to be a cult leader, but there is a certain line where the Lord gives that person a definite warning and

The last beast will be like al antichrists, that begin is sincere Christians who enter into ministry too early, without being called of Christ, and continue to make a mess of things, to the point where it's all about the minister and no more about Jesus and His sheep.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I believe the great error begins with uncalled premature ministers that seek success in ministry, rather than properly doing so in the world through business and trade, etc... They make merchandise of the sheep, rather than simply helping them to grow in Christ.

Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.

Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your for by faith ye stand.

Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

It's not the money but the power that is most intoxicating. The love of money is the root, but the power is the evil. When someone learns the power of have their every word being believed as proceeding from the mouth of God, that is when their pulpit chair becomes the throne of God.

Political power is nothing like ministerial power, unless the political is made ministerial, or the ministerial is made political, as you say.

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The minister becomes a great show off, and sits as though he is God Himself. You can see it, no matter how much he tries to show otherwise. There is a spirit of pride trying to appear humble. When all lights and eyes are on you, a person cannot remain humble for long, especially when you're the only one speaking to the church weekly or even day after day in 'revival' meetings.

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

 

[robert derrick]

The hol;y Land is Promised to Abraham's children. Genesis 15:18 ...unto thy seed...... KJV
You are wrong and a retraction for misquoting the Bible is required from you.

Who are the 'seed' of Abraham? Galatians 3:26-29 makes it abundantly clear that WE Christians thru Jesus; are the true SEED, and the inheritors of all the holy Land. Psalms 37:29

And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

Gen 13 is before the first covenant made with Abraham and his seed in Gen 15, including the covenant of circumcision, and the covenant at Sinai.

It is a promise between Friends, not dependent on covenant promises made later between a patriarch and his seed.

Abraham did not receive that land as his own when he walked it, therefore it must be in the future at some time. Like when the risen Lord returns Himself to do so Personally on earth to resurrected Abraham. That's also when Job's prophesy will be fulfilled to see his Redeemer and God personally on earth.

You need to read the Bible better, or at least allow yourself to be guided by someone teaching it more accurately.

Now, let's see if you are one of the rare ones that can be corrected or not.

 

[robert derrick]

Not according to the bible. That only happens LONG after the second coming.

One thousand years long to be exact.

To the day.

 

[robert derrick]

Your claims are false, this earth will be dissolved by fire at the Lord's return (The End)

Nah-ah doesn't work with me.

Of course you deny the Lord's fire in final judgment that you have been shown, as if it's non-existant in scripture

Talk about making the things of God non-existent.

Symbol Men make it all mythologic.

You have a pre-determined bias in a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, giving complete disregard to biblical truth

Of course I do. It's called taking the words of Scripture to mean what they say as written.

Your pre-determined bias is from symbolizing away anything you don't want to believe.

I read the KJV of the Bible, not the Symbol man's version.

The Symbol Man's Bible: The SMB version.

 

[Keraz]

And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

Gen 13 is before the first covenant made with Abraham and his seed in Gen 15, including the covenant of circumcision, and the covenant at Sinai.

It is a promise between Friends, not dependent on covenant promises made later between a patriarch and his seed.

Abraham did not receive that land as his own when he walked it, therefore it must be in the future at some time. Like when the risen Lord returns Himself to do so Personally on earth to resurrected Abraham. That's also when Job's prophesy will be fulfilled to see his Redeemer and God personally on earth.

You need to read the Bible better, or at least allow yourself to be guided by someone teaching it more accurately.

Now, let's see if you are one of the rare ones that can be corrected or not.

Amazing arrogance! To deny a plainly stated scripture and then to accuse the person who corrected you.
I proved the fact of the Christian peoples being the children of Abraham and many other prophesies prove that the Christians will occupy all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 33:6-14, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Psalms 105:43-44, Isaiah 65:24-25

It seems that to you; 'accurate teaching', is your beliefs. As you are wrong on this issue, no one should trust what you teach.

 

[Truth7t7]

True. The harlot is not the literal head of the beast, and the beast has his own heads.

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

Revelation 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

Revelation 18:19AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

[robert derrick]

Amazing arrogance!

Yeah. Amazing. In the military, the last resort of the lesser soldiers, is to accuse the best leaders of arrogance.

To deny a plainly stated scripture and then to accuse the person who corrected you.

You didn't correct my point, but went on to another point that has nothing to do with it.

I proved the fact of the Christian peoples being the children of Abraham and many other prophesies prove that the Christians will occupy all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 33:6-14, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Psalms 105:43-44, Isaiah 65:24-25

True. So why are you arguing against Abraham being given the land he walked on this earth?

Unless I am missing something.

It seems that to you; 'accurate teaching', is your beliefs. As you are wrong on this issue, no one should trust what you teach.

Right. Trust the scriptures only.

And did I ever say I cared if anyone believed me? You think I'm here trying to proselytize some kind of following?

All I care about is adding to or correcting the teaching of Scripture, to better perfect it.

 

[robert derrick]

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

I can see that. Thanks. Judaism still plays it's part in corrupting doctrine of Christ.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Yes. Jerusalem is spiritually that great city Sodom and Egypt where the Lord was crucified, and would be again.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

True. Babylon the Great does not become converted to Christianity.

Jerusalem will only become the beloved city of David again, when the Lord returns to rule over the earth from Zion.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

Revelation 18:19AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Yes, they still do that.

They'll also be celebrating a filthy version of Purim, when sending gifts over the dead bodies of the witnesses of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is a blasphemer to them, even worse than Haman.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jerusalem will only become the beloved city of David again, when the Lord returns to rule over the earth from Zion.

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Keraz]

So why are you arguing against Abraham being given the land he walked on this earth?

Because Abraham is dead and will not be raised until after the Millennium.
All the righteous, faithful Christians will inherit all of the holy Land. Isaiah 65:9, Ephesians 1:10-14

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Its not going to be east for you or others per se. It is fir me because I already understand it. But you and others also have those road blocks of men's traditions to overcome, I don't.

You need to repent of your arrogance. Why are you acting as if you know me when you clearly do not? My beliefs aren't based on men's traditions whatsoever. And I believe the Holy Spirit has shown me things every bit as much as you think He has shown you things. And, yet, we disagree on some things. So, one of us is erroneously thinking that the Holy Spirit is showing us things that are actually coming from our own imaginations or somewhere else.

My explanation of the Chronological Order of Revelation is very easy to follow.

No, it is not. You are not nearly as easy to follow as you think you are.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is why there is no honest debate with symbolizers making myth of any Scripture they want.

Grow up. That is not what is happening here. We all know there is at least some symbolism in the book of Revelation. Why do you act as if symbolism is a bad thing? Such nonsense.

This is why such symbolizers say things that no Scripture ever does. They fail to at least make difference between what is written in Scripture and what is only in their own minds.why

You're all talk. You back it up with nothing.

Scripture says the old earth will flee from the face of God, and you reject it as nonsense. No Scripture says the old earth is ever made new, nor made the new earth, and you preach it as true.

It says that in the most highly symbolic book in all of scripture. So, when it says the meek shall inherit the earth, they will only inherit it for a short time instead of for eternity? Is that what you believe? If so, then you are turning that promise into something that is not that big of a deal, when the reality is that it's a huge deal because they will inherit the earth (the renewed/new earth) for eternity.

Which is not surprising, since you do away with His kingdom rule over this earth, as nothing but symbolic myth. And you instead preach your own mind for teaching of Scripture.

Scripture very clearly teaches that He reigns now and that we reign with Him now, so that is what I preach.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then the harlot and the beast including the ten kings are all the same, with no distinction between harlot and the beast she is on?

Is that what I said? No, not even close. So, you are showing once again that you are completely lacking in reading comprehension skills. It is a complete waste of time trying to have a discussion with you because you don't understand anything that is said to you.