dad
Well-Known Member
Did you think all people on planet earth went to that particular battle??? Seriously?You don't think all will be dead at Armageddon, but crawl off the field to procreate more of Adam's dead flesh?
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Did you think all people on planet earth went to that particular battle??? Seriously?You don't think all will be dead at Armageddon, but crawl off the field to procreate more of Adam's dead flesh?
No He has come to make it possible for them to accept Jesus. The turn from ungodliness thingie only comes after they are saved.No, He hasn't come yet to turn them away from their ungodliness?! Yes, He most certainly has! You are blatantly contradicting this passage:
Acts 3:24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.
What more does Jesus need to do in order to turn them from their wicked ways than to die for their sins? Nothing! He already came and got the job done. How can you not see that? How they respond does not determine whether or not He did what was prophesied that He would do. He did it long ago already.
Why make stuff up? I never said anything of the sort. Srawman argument.Also, you are acting as if no Jews have ever been saved or are saved today, but that is false.
Yes for a nation to be godly and have Him ruling and turn from their wickedness etc they must be saved, and all Israel will be saved one day. Not today.There were 3,000 of them saved on the day of Pentecost alone and Jews have been getting saved ever since. You have the false idea that they all have to be saved in order for the prophecy to come true, but that is not the case.
Great. and....point?The Israel that Paul referenced is not the nation of Israel, but rather is the spiritual Israel he talked about in Romans 9:6-8 which refers to those who are the children of God and has nothing to do with one's nationality.
All Israel will be saved one day. That was what he was talking about.Who are the children of God? Those who believe in Christ. And everyone who believes in Christ is saved and everyone who does in the future will be saved. That is what Paul was talking about.
Looking at your quote I did not see "sixth seal" anywhere. Why bring it up? The tribulation does end as soon as Jesus returns to the earth. So....?Your words:
Trying to figure out why you said that period of 7 years is over at the 6th Seal. You asked a question, then answered saying it was over.
There won't be that many left after 3.5 years, much less 7.Did you think all people on planet earth went to that particular battle??? Seriously?
The Thessalonians were taught that the rapture already happened and they missed it. NOt that it could happen at any time.
I see. No nations full of people to rule over then?There won't be that many left after 3.5 years, much less 7.
Yes, there is armies gathered.Did you think the Tribulation is a Sunday School Picnic, that the lost have to endure?
All that is left on earth is dragged kicking and screaming by God. You remember those 3 demons like frogs that go out to gather every single last human on earth to Armageddon?
Some of...who? The army? No. The rest of the planet? Well quite a bit of people remain. Nations.You think God is going to let some get off easy?
Right, from countries all over the world some people come to fight. That does not mean all people on earth go their to that battlefield."For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
Right all the dead guys. Not the living of course."That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."
We rule with Him a thousand years. Over nations. That'll do er.Please provide a verse from Scripture other than your erroneous human opinion that states God lets some sinners escape God's removal of sin from the earth.
There is a new heaven and earth when the Millennium starts.
His reasons you don't know. To burn the planet though is certainly not one of them! That happens after the 1000 years.That is why Jesus is on the earth making all things new per Isaiah 65, and 2 Peter 3. The Day of the Lord comes with everything burned up and all sin removed, and it will take more than 24 hours.
Not sure what that means. Jesus only died once, and that cross was right there the day He died. How many days do you think the cross was?The Cross was more than one 24 hour day. Jesus was obedient to baptism about 3.5 years prior to the Cross.
Speculation. Any by mess I assume you are not talking about turning swords into plowshares but human beings are the mess?So it will be the same at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. It will be days, months, and even years to clean up all the mess Adam left of the earth over the last 6,000 years.
Oh? I seem to recall that it takes years just to bury the dead in one area. But you are prone to condense things and stuff it into a little instant if you think you can get away with it.It took 6,000 years to destroy the earth. But it will be slightly more than an instant for God to change things around.
Except that is before He returns. When you are not condensing you seem to be conflating.The 3.5 years of AoD is still part of the process.
Nothing remotely similar to that. Immediately after the tribulation Jesus returns to earth.That is Satan's 42 months of sheol on earth, before all is made new. The Tribulation is before that. Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming. It is mopping up after Satan's 42 months.
Now who is mashing things together?Looking at your quote I did not see "sixth seal" anywhere. Why bring it up? The tribulation does end as soon as Jesus returns to the earth. So....?
You have it all figured out, so what is the use explaining.I see. No nations full of people to rule over then?
Yes, there is armies gathered.
Some of...who? The army? No. The rest of the planet? Well quite a bit of people remain. Nations.
Right, from countries all over the world some people come to fight. That does not mean all people on earth go their to that battlefield.
Right all the dead guys. Not the living of course.
We rule with Him a thousand years. Over nations. That'll do er.
No. Sorry. Nothing of the sort.
His reasons you don't know. To burn the planet though is certainly not one of them! That happens after the 1000 years.
Not sure what that means. Jesus only died once, and that cross was right there the day He died. How many days do you think the cross was?
Speculation. Any by mess I assume you are not talking about turning swords into plowshares but human beings are the mess?
Oh? I seem to recall that it takes years just to bury the dead in one area. But you are prone to condense things and stuff it into a little instant if you think you can get away with it.
Except that is before He returns. When you are not condensing you seem to be conflating.
Nothing remotely similar to that. Immediately after the tribulation Jesus returns to earth.
Since the 6th Seal is the Second Coming, obviously not that important of an event. Since you don't see the Second Coming as changing anything on the earth, just another day of an 8,000 year creation.Looking at your quote I did not see "sixth seal" anywhere. Why bring it up? The tribulation does end as soon as Jesus returns to the earth. So....?
Nice story. Proof?Now who is mashing things together?
The Seals happen first for the church.
No no else eh? just ol Jacob. Interesting. Verse? Let;s look at a trumpet and see if Jacob is given an honorable mentch.Then the Trumpets happen for Jacob.
They don't happen at the same time. Jacob's trouble is over in the first 6 Trumpets. The church's tribulation is over in the first 6 Seals.
Two different events for two different people. The church is in Paradise, after the 6th Seal.
The 144k are the sheep of Israel among many other sheep and goats on earth with Jesus as King over the entire nation of Jacob.
Someone thought just two tribes made up the 144,000? Guess they never read the bible.All the tribes of Jacob, not just the Jews of Judah and Benjamin.
But Jesus is on the earth sitting on His Glorious throne judging the sheep and goats per Matthew 25, after the 6th Seal, and during the GT of the first 6 Trumpets.
Oh, so all the world will not be affected and ruled by the AntiChrist? Quite the cultish little delusions you are peddling here.The GT is for Jacob.
So the last seven years started when John the Baptist baptized Jesus? Keep those zingers coming.But the Second Coming brings Christ to earth as King to finish the 7 years that were started between His baptism and the Cross.
The doesn't work. You try to borrow my line and then apply it to an LSD level pile of steaming fabricated confused blather.You cannot mash them all together. The events happen in a certain order.
To be clear do you realize the last 42 months are the last half of the last seven years, and Jesus returns right after?Even Matthew 13 states Jesus is on the earth with the angels gathering the final harvest. That happens during the 7 Thunders. All the harvest is over by the time Satan is allowed 42 months.
Most all on the earth has been harvested, by the time the 7th Trumpet sounds. Satan is only left with the gleanings.
Each set of judgements removes 2 billion humans at a time, and that is not including those raptured in the 6th Seal. The 4th Seal has not been opened or we would see 25 percent of the population of the earth gone in a global war as it states:
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."
You all claim Jesus cannot return until all is said and done. That would not be a surprise Second Coming like a thief in the night.
Satan will try to pre-empt the moment with the 4th Seal. Perhaps none of the Church will be alive and remain, if Satan can kill 2 billion professing Christians. Satan, through Herod, tried to do that at the birth of Jesus by killing hundreds of infants. You don't think he could do it at the Second Coming, especially when no one knows when it will happen. Are you ready to be martyred instead of raptured?
Or do you have just one 7 year narrative about an AC and the church leaving a second prior to the AC.
Sorry, that in foolishness.You know that is not from Scripture? That is not what the 4th, 5th, and 6th Seal shows. Satan's 42 months of AoD don't even happen until after the 7th Trumpet.
So you would like to pretend the final leader, the beast is not also what is called in other places the AntiChrist. OK. That is not worth debate as it is not only false and easily shown so, but time wastingly ignorant.There is no AC mentioned at all in Revelation. But if you can find one, it will be months or years, after the Second Coming. The AC is after the 7th Trumpet event.
So we won;t rule here with jesus as the bible says or return from heaven with Him in your yoyoist view. OKThe Second Coming is not for the rapture. The Second Coming is to bring Jesus and the angels to earth for the final harvest. The church just gets to go first to Paradise, raptured, as Jesus and the angels are headed for the earth. That is why the church is not around for the final harvest. The church won't come back until after the millennium reign of Christ on the earth.
Those living on the earth will be the 144k, the sheep, and the wheat, all firstfruits of the final harvest representing all the nations of the earth.
They will be waiting on the sea of glass during Satan's 42 months of AoD.
Mischievous madness.Armageddon is just the final roll call of souls left in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.
More unsupportable fantasy.The only redeemed souls during Satan's 42 months are the 2 witnesses,
So you add folks who lost their heads as citizens of the coming rule of Christ as well as 2 men. Your imagined rule of us and Jesus then has precisely 144,002 people alive on earth. Interesting view of the nations that will be here.and all those beheaded souls resurrected to also live with Christ during the Millennium. All those post trib people fit into the beheaded camp. They are the only souls to come out of Satan's 42 months alive, of course having no head attached to their body, but they are not left in sheol for a thousand years, with the rest of the dead.
Who said it was? Seven years takes, well, seven years to be over.You have it all figured out, so what is the use explaining.
You obviously have the book of Revelation jumbled up in your head.
You still don't seem to have a clue that it is not all over in an instant moment of time.
It is not free of death in the 1000 year reign, people can still die as I already provided scripture for.And you fail to see the earth as being free of sin and death,
What did you think the nations we rule over in the millennium were composed of, zombies?but you allow all that pain and suffering in Adam's dead corruptible flesh to remain.
You may as well join the Amil for what it is worth. You point out the same points they do. You claim it will still be the here and now, and no fire until after the millennium.
Just a bunch of people get killed between here and the end of the Millennium.
There was no such thought as pre mid or post trib in those days. Those are man made words created centuries later But Pauls teaching was definitely pre trib.2th 2:1-2 does not indicate that they thought they missed it, but rather it indicates that the pretriber was saying it could happen at any moment. 2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. The fact Paul was revered and that they knew He was still around confirms that they did not think all of them missed being caught up alive. The pretriber simply caused them to become confused about what Paul had taught them. The idea that the rapture could occur and no one knows that it happened came out of the pretriber camp. The parable of the virgins makes it clear that when the resurrection is about to take place the unsaved will realize they need to be saved and ask the saved to help them get saved, to which the saved will say you have to believe on your own like we did. And while they are trying to get saved the resurrection will take place. It is not going to be like the pretribers say it will be.
No the language does not allow for those two conflicting ideas!That's the same thing. If it was past, it could happen at any time and did...in that situation.
The language can also be understood as they thought it could happen suddenly and they could miss it.
Both are wrong. Paul listed two events related to the great Tribulation that proves the GT has to happen first before the rapture takes place. Paul's writing is teh first to address the false pre-trib any-moment concept.
To be clear, the last 42 months are given to Satan, and not tribulation at all. They are not part of the 7 years at all. Time was declared over when the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.To be clear do you realize the last 42 months are the last half of the last seven years, and Jesus returns right after?
Nor do you! You constantly reinterpret th eWord of God with you r allegorical opinions to twist the Word to fit your teachings. the last 42 months are Gods time not Satans and no amount of Scripture twisting will change that very fact.You clearly don't know your book of Revelation like you think you do.
OK, that was clear. The last half of the seven years is not part of the seven years whatsoever. Fine.To be clear, the last 42 months are given to Satan, and not tribulation at all. They are not part of the 7 years at all. Time was declared over when the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.
You are the one peddling JW garbage. You are so blind, you cannot see Scripture from your own interpretation errors. You have invented your own tribulation period.
Interesting that neither the seals, trumpets, nor thunders point out your madness,
Not only do I not get confused, I can see whan people blather with no hope of supporting it. It reminds me of an old song 'dazed and confused'then you get confused why there are no labels found in the book of Revelation to clear up your erroneous imagination for you. It is call using other Scripture to interpret Scripture, not your made up human imagination.
Define 'final harvest? Wait, I see you do not even so much as realize that the last years of history were not thousand of years ago! Not a lot in common here.The final harvest is the last half of the 70th week with Jesus on earth as Prince, while the first half was as Messiah in the first century.
No. The last week of Daniel has never happened yet.You are wrong claiming the whole 7 years is future, and every one is wrong in declaring the 7 years were over in the first century.
You have no Scripture to prove the last 42 months is not given to Satan. Revelation 13 mentions no tribulation nor judgment. All that is mentioned is that Satan gets to do whatever he wants for 42 months uninterrupted. Feel free to prove Revelation 13 is about judgment from God. About the only thing good that happens is that many chop their heads off for their testimony of Jesus Christ. Not even the vials are poured out during those 42 months. The 7 vials happen after the 42 months are over after the 2 witnesses are killed.Nor do you! You constantly reinterpret th eWord of God with you r allegorical opinions to twist the Word to fit your teachings. the last 42 months are Gods time not Satans and no amount of Scripture twisting will change that very fact.
Jesus as Messiah and Prince is the 70th week per Daniel 9.OK, that was clear. The last half of the seven years is not part of the seven years whatsoever. Fine.
Insults aside, no, the bible tells us it is after we see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Apparently many people cannot hear what Dan said.
You thought the various judgments in the time or wrath were here to 'point stuff out'?
Not only do I not get confused, I can see whan people blather with no hope of supporting it. It reminds me of an old song 'dazed and confused'
Define 'final harvest? Wait, I see you do not even so much as realize that the last years of history were not thousand of years ago! Not a lot in common here.
No. The last week of Daniel has never happened yet.
The part after He dies and brings in everlasting righteousness is also there.Jesus as Messiah and Prince is the 70th week per Daniel 9.
He died, and that was in the first 69 weeks.I am pretty sure that Jesus Christ happened.
Except you can't support that and probably don't even know which prince is what.The Prince part happens during Jacob's trouble, as that is who Daniel 9:24 was written to.
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:"He died, and that was in the first 69 weeks.