Who did Jesus Die a Ransom for?
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
March on my friend . Onwards in the LORD do the lambs go . Following the voice of the Great shepard of the sheep .
Let the KING be praised .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Can satan preach another jesus , say GOD is love and yet preach another love which the world embraces to lead all astray.
To lead all to unite under what they think is love and GOD . YES HE CAN . HIS MINSTIRS ARE DOING IT
and many are BUYING INTO IT .
My advice .
OPEN BIBLE . READ BIBLE . LOVE BIBLE and DO BIBLE . LEARN THAT JESUS . for satan has many who do his work
to lead all to rise as one under HIM ,not GOD , yet is presenting his version of love and of god to cause all to worship him as one .
ITS REAL . ITS HAPPENING and many are buying it . OPEN BIBLE , READ BIBLE , LOVE BIBLE , DO BIBLE , LEARN THAT JESUS WELL .
To lead all to unite under what they think is love and GOD . YES HE CAN . HIS MINSTIRS ARE DOING IT
and many are BUYING INTO IT .
My advice .
OPEN BIBLE . READ BIBLE . LOVE BIBLE and DO BIBLE . LEARN THAT JESUS . for satan has many who do his work
to lead all to rise as one under HIM ,not GOD , yet is presenting his version of love and of god to cause all to worship him as one .
ITS REAL . ITS HAPPENING and many are buying it . OPEN BIBLE , READ BIBLE , LOVE BIBLE , DO BIBLE , LEARN THAT JESUS WELL .
Of course not.... It's all about being chosen by LOT!!! Pay attention.... do your research.... then you can cry about what your not given to see Enoch111....
NASB Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Net Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29(G280)since we were predestined (G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will
29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner, Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.
Word study
G2820
κληρόω
klēróō; contracted klērṓ, fut. klērṓsō, from klḗros (G2819), a lot. To cast lots, determine by lot, i.e., to determine something, choose someone. In Eph_1:11, it means, "in whom the lot has fallen upon us also, as foreordained thereto . . . to be" (a.t.). The idea expressed here is that Christians have become heirs of God due to the fact that God predestined them according to His purpose. In a manner of speaking, the "lot" fell to believers not by chance but solely because of the gracious and sovereign decision of God- Almighty to select them to be His heirs.
Deriv.: prosklēróō (G4345), to give or assign by lot.
NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
CEV Joh 6:44 No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me makes them want to come. But if they do come, I will raise them to life on the last day.
Net Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,66 and I will raise him up at the last day.
Net Bible
Joh 6:44 -
66 tn Or "attracts him," or "pulls him." The word is used of pulling or dragging, often by force. It is even used once of magnetic attraction (A. Oepke, TDNT 2:503).
sn The Father who sent me draws him. The author never specifically explains what this "drawing" consists of. It is evidently some kind of attraction; whether it is binding and irresistible or not is not mentioned. But there does seem to be a parallel with Joh_6:65, where Jesus says that no one is able to come to him unless the Father has allowed it. This apparently parallels the use of Isaiah by John to reflect the spiritual blindness of the Jewish leaders (see the quotations from Isaiah in Joh_9:41 and Joh_12:39-40).
Listen to Jesus Enoch111
NASB Joh 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."
CEV Joh 6:65 Then Jesus said, "You cannot come to me, unless the Father makes you want to come. That is why I have told these things to all of you."
Let's keep going with John...
NASB Joh 17:2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.
CEV Joh 17:2 And you gave him power over all people, so that he would give eternal life to everyone you give him.
Pay attention Enoch111....
NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
CEV Act 13:48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.
Silly Child..... You live in the Traditions of men.... You only see the man made Heaven and Hell from the Greeks..... and not the coming Kingdom Jesus taught.... Was that not His true purpose...
Luke 4:43 But He said to them,"I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, for I was sent for this purpose."
You have no idea about anything reguarding the Kingdom of God.... You only see Heaven and Hell... how sad... indeed!
Paul
Good post-what a pity on the "biting, cutting" words to another believer-sad indeed.
Johann.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
If we take the belief that the ancient Jews were taught about death, then we see a completely different scenario to what present day Jews and Christendom have adopted from pagan beliefs and practices.
You highlight four different words that are all translated "hell" in some Bibles. But is that an accurate translation and does the Bible itself contradict the existence of an afterlife, as it is believed today? In my studies, I can tell you there is no similarity.
"Sheol/hades" obviously mean the same thing because in the Septuagint "sheol" is translated "hades". Often called "the abode of the dead" or the place where the dead go. So what was "sheol" to an ancient Jew?
Solomon tells us that..."For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going."
Seems clear enough....what do the dead know? "nothing". And future generations will forget about them. But how is it that their "love" has "perished" along with their negative emotions?
Solomon also tell us that the humans have no superiority over the animals in death...
"I also said in my heart about the sons of men that the true God will test them and show them that they are like animals, 19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust."
Adam was never told about an afterlife of any kind. He was told only that death meant a return to the dust...nothing more.
Psalm 115:16-17...
“As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah,
But the earth he has given to the sons of men.
17 The dead do not praise Jah;
Nor do any who go down into the silence of death.”
Jews had no belief in an afterlife from their scripture.
Now when Jesus spoke of “Gehenna” it was referenced as a place where the wicked were sent...and where “the worms do not die and the fires do not go out.”
He told the Pharisees that they would ‘not flee the judgment of Gehenna’. What was Jesus’ referring to, that his Jewish audience understood?
As you brought out, Gehenna was actually a physical place (a rubbish dump outside the walls of Jerusalem) that came to represent a place where garbage was disposed of.....even human garbage. The carcasses of animals as well as those considered unworthy of a decent burial, had their bodies disposed of in this place where fires were kept burning day and night by the addition of brimstone (Sulfur).....and what the flames missed, the maggots finished off.
Without a burial tomb with the person’s name and lineage inscribed, Jews believed that God would not remember them in the resurrection....that they would remain in death forever.
There is no physical suffering in Gehenna for the simple reason that nothing alive ever went in there.
Because there is no “life after death” as it is taught in Christendom, there is no place where the dead go except “Sheol”...which is the common grave of mankind. Hades gives up its dead according to Rev 20: 13-14......”And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave (hades) gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and the Grave (hades) were hurled into the lake of fire.This means the second death, the lake of fire.”
Because he said....”And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.”
Gehenna is a place where both body and soul are “destroyed”, not tortured.
“Tartarus” is a condition of restraint rather than a place of torment. The demons alone are said to be in this place, as a result of God bringing the flood in Noah’s day, and forcing them back to the spirit realm where he restrained them in figurative chains. (2 Pet 2:4)
I don’t believe that the scriptures support “life after death” as in the “soul” departing the body at death. No scripture says that the “soul” is a disembodied spirit....it is always a living, breathing creature.
Resurrection is a return to life rather than a continuation of it.....this is what the Bible teaches.
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I am aware of the ancient rabbinical writings-and don't go by their writings
Guess Jesus and His resurrection came and "revolutionized" everything-and the Scriptures do not contradict the existence of an afterlife, it very much affirms it.
I digress-Scripture very much and emphatically speaks about being conscious after death
I stand by what stands written-not rabbinical writings.
Not being facetious
Johann
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Stand by it , on it and for it . FOR EVERY WORD JESUS SAID IS the ABOSLUTE TRUTH OF GOD .
And HE made a huge mention about torment that cometh after the death of the body .
STAND BY IT , FOR IT and ON IT . EVERY WORD OF JESUS is the WORD and WORDS of GOD .
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I am not talking about ancient rabbinical writings....I am talking about the scriptures that were part of the Hebrew canon and which form part of “all scripture” that is “inspired of God and beneficial“ for teaching us the truth and setting all matters straight. (2 Tim 3:16-17) The Bible does not “go by their writings” either. God used his prophets and his son to teach us all we need to know about life and death.
Again "immortality of the soul" is not what Jesus taught or what he demonstrated with regard to the resurrection of the dead. The meaning of this word has been lost, corrupted and twisted all out of shape by the belief that ‘we don’t really die’. It means restoring the life of one who has died. You cannot resurrection someone who is not dead. Jesus resurrected Lazarus but where did he bring him back to? Where was Lazarus before Jesus called him out of his tomb?
By misinterpreting and then misunderstanding what resurrection means, satan has successfully perpetuated his first lie for thousands of years. God told Adam he would “surely die”, not that his soul would end up in “heaven or hell”....there was no such concept in Jewish teachings (as their scripture taught), but satan knows that humankind are not ‘programmed’ for death. It was not supposed to happen......they had opportunity for everlasting life on this beautifully prepared earth, but they threw it away for selfish reasons.
Latching on to this desire in humans to go on living, satan told the woman “you surely will NOT die” and so, having the penalty of death removed from the action she took, he enticed her with a lie that contradicted what God had told them....a lie that he has been selling ever since....a lie that has the ignorant human race still entrapped. Until Christ comes and holds the world to account, we will continue to feel the sting of death, but ignorance is dispelled in what Jesus actually taught about what happens to us when we die. Genuine Christians have no fear of death because they know what God’s word teaches about it. Death is no more than a restful sleep.
All the spiritistic practices that were rife in the pagan nations, (and still are) eventually carried over into the thought processes of God’s worshippers ( past and present) and is contrary to all that he had taught them about death. It led to them practicing all manner of false religious ideas, including communication with the dead. Something God said was detestable.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12...
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer,11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you.”
Why were these things “detestable” to Jehovah?.....because they were all part of satan’s religious practices that were designed to keep his deception alive, when he couldn’t keep his own devotees alive to maintain the worship he desired. He had to keep recruiting new followers who would carry on what he wanted them to believe about many things.
Belief in life after death is in all false religion....but it was never a Jewish teaching from scripture.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
OK, now this is where the devil has been especially deceptive because he has turned belief in the resurrection into belief in an immortal soul. A completely contradictory scenario.
What ‘consciousness after death’ did Jesus actually speak about, as opposed to what most in Christendom believe and are taught?
When Jesus walked the earth the Bible tells us about three resurrections specifically that he personally performed (there may have been many more), but in each of the cited cases he returned a dead person to life. He did not pluck their soul from another realm to make them live again. He restored the life they formerly had, and returned them to their families and friends.
The very expression that people rely on to promote the idea that we don’t really die is never once mentioned in scripture because the two words “immortal soul” are completely contradictory. A “soul” in the Bible is a living, breathing, mortal creature. A “soul” cannot therefore, be immortal.
Two words in the Bible that have come to mean the same thing, are not the same at all......and that is “soul” and “spirit”. As one who has done extensive word studies, Johann, you will know this.
A “soul” in the Bible is never described as a disembodied “spirit”. The soul is synonymous with life, often hearing the expression "my soul" meaning all that a person is or was. A soul is the whole person and cannot live if the body dies. (Ezek 18:4)
Going back to Eden we can see what God did to make Adam a “soul”.....he breathed “the breath (spirit) of life into his nostrils”, ‘making’ the man a soul, not ‘giving’ him one. Never was Adam told about an afterlife.
The “resurrection” that Jews believed in, and what Jesus showed them would happen in the new world to come, was a restoration of mankind back to the earth where God created them to live in the first place.
We have been led to believe that earth was merely a training ground for heaven, when this was NEVER the case. God’s purpose for his first inhabited planet never involved humans or any other terrestrial creatures, living anywhere else. This earth was designed to be our permanent home.
But do we never wonder why God chose such an insignificant planet to begin his sentient material creation? His spiritual family in heaven were created long before the universe was. The inhabitants of heaven did not need to be 'trained' to live there.
In God's vast universe, our earth is merely a tiny speck....and the sun that powers our solar system is also a very small one at the edge of an insignificant galaxy.
If we are the starting point in a much larger picture, what are we undergoing now that will benefit all creation in times to come? We can only speculate about what God has in store for the future, but wouldn’t he make sure that all the ‘bugs’ were ironed out in his prototype before he ventured out into other habitable places in the universe? Did he create such vastness for nothing? The Bible says he created the earth to be inhabited.....but why this tiny insignificant place?
We can only go by the instructions he has left us....and in the beginning there was no need of a long list of laws and penalties....no need for sin to enter the world, and so no suffering or death would have blighted our lives. No saviour would have needed to come and rescue us from our self imposed situation, and therefore no kingdom with priests and kings would have been needed to bring us back into reconciliation with our Creator.
Can you step back now and see a much bigger picture, not merely focused on God’s solution to save us from our disobedience through a very narrow lens, but seeing what could have been and how Jehovah fulfills his statement at Isaiah 55:11?
From my studies, when Jehovah starts something, he is keen to complete it. With time not being an issue to him, it can seem as if things are dragging from our limited perspective, while he fixes what got broken when both angels and man drew away from their Creator in an attempt to rule themselves without him.
He could have responded in one of two ways.....either destroy what he created and start again, (which would not have satisfied his perfect justice) and which would likely have set up a chain reaction when we understand that the first rebel was not human. Angels figure in this scenario to a greater extent than most people realize.....and the reason why time is figured in the outworking of God’s purpose in their realm, not ours. The spirit realm does not operate in earth time, governed by the rotation of our little planet.
We are the hostages in this situation, taken captive by a rebel spirit who challenged his Creator’s Sovereignty and had to be made an example of. In allowing the devil to rule his new converts, God would create a record of his dealings with mankind and he would allow the devil to rule with a relatively free hand to prove that he was the better ruler over his newly acquired subjects. In this God did not leave himself without witness, informing mankind who he was and what his expectations were concerning them, and there would always be those ones who would refuse to allow the devil to be their god. Abel was the first human to worship his God acceptably, but he was by no means the last. Hebrews 11 lists a vast number who upheld their Creator's Sovereignty.
Angels were also observing closely because many of their number were also making decisions as to whom they would serve? The true God, or the pretender whose claims seemed to them to be valid as it did to humans.
All the while, a recording of all who remained faithful to God and who actively opposed the devil was taking place for a future “book of life”, wherein all the names of the faithful are written so that their future resurrection is assured in the new world to come. (2 Peter 3:12; Phil 4:3)
In the meantime, God chose a number of humans to rule with his son in a kingdom of a thousand years duration.....the time it would take to bring all redeemed mankind back into a sinless condition to face one last test before being granted everlasting life on this planet as God first intended.
These were to be granted a very different resurrection, from human to spirit, as Jesus was. (1 Pet 3:18) He was “the firstborn from the dead” in that respect. (Col 1:15-17) The first of those who experience the “first resurrection” as “kings and priests” (Rev 20:6) in a heavenly kingdom designed to take mankind back to God. So Isaiah 55:11 comes to its completion.....what Jehovah starts, he finishes....to his satisfaction.
The creative “days” in Genesis were all completed in the same way....all being declared “good” and “very good” from Jehovah’s standpoint......all but one, that is. The 7th day was begun, but has no conclusion declared by God. Was this an oversight on his part or was it a failure? No way that God can ever be a failure so, what did this mean?
Paul spoke of God’s “rest” as still continuing, (Heb 3:10-11) so does this mean that the 7th day was set aside for this very purpose? To address the problems that free will naturally brings to creatures who can use it for the benefit or detriment of themselves and others?
Did God need to see what his free willed creatures would do with this gift and then act accordingly to show us where it can be either a blessing or a curse? The lessons are all there in God’s word.
Again the bigger picture helps us put it all into focus, not just the bits that we seem to concentrate on and argue about....the big picture helps us make sense out of all of it...or it does to me anyway...
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I understand your position and what forms the basis of it.....and hope that you can see the bigger picture now from a broader perspective. I know that you are sincere in your beliefs and so are many others. But we have to understand that Saul of Taurus was sincere too, but he was responsible for the persecution and death of many Christians because of his misguided zeal for God. (Rom 10:2-3)
Sincerity alone can lead us in the wrong direction unless we can step back and see it all in context. Saul got a large ‘tap on the shoulder’ from Jesus himself.....we may not. It might be a humble servant of Jesus knocking on your door that you turn away and dismiss without a second thought....no one believed Noah, but it did not stop him preaching righteousness to those who would remain outside of the ark while the door was still open. (Matt 24:37-39) None of them could say he didn’t try to tell them what God was about to to.
It was God who closed the door. Another door of opportunity will close very soon....where will we all find ourselves?
I really appreciate you wanting to interact-but do read the post on soul sleep from @GRACE ambassador @Aunty Jane
Johann.
By His death on the cross the blood of Christ ransoms "whosoever believes" from among ALL humanity. The Gospel message about Christ is freely OFFERED to the whole human race, and from among the human race whosoever believes in Christ according to grace through faith is GIVEN eternal life through Him.
I am all ears for listening to truth, as it stands written in Scriptures @Aunty Jane and I read your posts-also love the way and manner that you are "open" to discussion and not imposing your views in a dogmatic stance on others-But-there are simply "things" I cannot agree with you.
And it is good and wholesome to disagree-and not be offended-for you, and me.
Johann.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I read that post Johann and have a very different take on all the scripture presented there. As I have mentioned, it’s not the words of scripture that are the problem, it’s how preconceived ideas color the interpretation of them.
I have given you a few examples....on the "soul sleep" thread.
The scriptures are what God inspired, but the interpretation isn't necessarily what the Jewish writers intended.
Well, I'm not sure it is "good" or "wholesome" for Christians to disagree, but its certainly not unexpected.....
When Paul wrote..."Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." (1 Cor 1:10)...do you think he was advocating disagreements among those who follow Christ?
I believe that the holy spirit unites believers, it doesn't divide them, otherwise there can never be the unity of spirit that Jesus advocated.
John 17:14-21 says it all really....in prayer to his Father Jesus said.....
"I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.
15 “I do not request that you take them out of the world, but that you watch over them because of the wicked one. 16 They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. 17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth. 18 Just as you sent me into the world, I also sent them into the world. 19 And I am sanctifying myself in their behalf, so that they also may be sanctified by means of truth.
20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me."
Unity of faith and belief and practice are the credentials of true Christianity.....we cannot be at odds with each other as if the truth can be fractured into thousands of pieces, with people bickering with one another over doctrine.....something fractured is broken.....Christendom is broken....beyond repair as Judaism was in Jesus' day.
In order to identify "Babylon the great", we first have to know who or what she is.....pictured as a disgusting harlot, who is anyone's for a price, (Rev 18:4-5) she is the mother of many 'daughters' and all of her daughters hold the same core beliefs in common, unknown to the "wheat", but held by all the "weeds". Those core beliefs are....multiplicities of gods...belief in an immortal soul....and hellfire as a punishment of the wicked after death. All these ideas were adopted from paganism but find no place in God's word.
What is the price of an inconvenient truth as opposed to a convenient lie? Truth is sacrificed for a false unity.....one that is professed among the many denominations in the "church" system, but is not practiced in real life. We see even on these threads that there is no real agreement among those who wear the same label (Christian).....their denomination's label is more important than the challenge of defending something that is in reality....indefensible.
If "few" are on the road to life as Jesus said, (Matt7:13-14) and those few were going to be a 'hated and persecuted' minority, (John 15:18-20) then a search for truth will never be among the "mainstream" churches, because God's people have never been "mainstream".....they have always held beliefs that were totally different to those of the nations who worshipped other gods. That is why God kept them separated from those nations.....and yet still in their disobedience, those awful beliefs crept in and corrupted them. The same has happened to Christendom.....the devil infiltrated these churches in the very early centuries and created his own fake "Christian" empire.
The sad truth is that God does not see the divided churches of Christendom as a multitude of religious bodies...he sees them as one entity. All false religion is seen as one entity....identified as "Babylon the great" which is simply the greater version of original Babylon....it is the place where all false worship originated after the flood.....a place that came to symbolize rebellion against God.
When Jesus arrives as judge of all of mankind, there will only be "sheep and goats" in the world....God will not care what kind of "goat" you are because all goats are the same to him....all will share the same fate. The "sheep" OTOH, will all be of one flock, united in the same pen, feeding on the same "food", no matter where they live in this world......God knows them and he will save them when that judgment comes.
So who does God see when he looks at us? Someone wanting to confirm that what they already believe is true.....or someone who is a genuine truth seeker and is prepared to do what the first Christians did? Give up what they were indoctrinated with all their lives, and accept an unpopular truth, and perhaps the derision of others who mock them and assert that they cannot be true "Christians" because they reject the core doctrines that they promote as foundational to Christ's teachings? Yet, they never were.
History is repeating....but no one seems to be able to see it. (2 Cor 4:3-4)
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In Hebrew grammar, the position of emphasis is usually the beginning of the clause. Unfortunately, our English translation of the Hebrew text does not always reveal this emphasis. So it should not be forgotten that Hebrew-unlike English-usually confronts the listener or reader immediately with a verbal form (often a transitive verb, but sometimes an intransitive or “stative” form) even before the subject itself is designated.
Laziness, inertia, or passivity were hardly marks of the Hebrews’ lifestyle. Rather, the Hebrews were mainly a doing and feeling people. Thus their language has few abstract terms. Rather, "Hebrew may be called primarily a language of the senses. The words originally express concrete or material things and movements or actions which struck the senses or started the emotions. Only secondary and in metaphor could they be used to denote abstract or metaphysical ideas." The Bible contains many Hebraisms in which abstract thoughts or immaterial conceptions are conveyed through material or physical terminology.
We shall give number of examples to illustrate this point: "look" is "lift up the eyes" (Gen. 22:4); "be angry" is "burned in one's
nostrils" (Exod.4:14); "disclose something to another" or "reveal" is "unstopped someone's ears" (Ruth 4:4); "have no compassion" is "hard-heartedness" (1Sam.6:6); "stubborn" is "stiff-necked" (2 Chr.30:8;cf.Acts 7:51). In addition, the Hebrews often referred to God by use of anthropomorphisms (i.e., representation of God with human attributes). The "living" and "active" God of the Hebrews is thus never reduced to mere impersonal abstraction. For instance, the 10 Commandments are said to be "inscribed by the finger of God" (Exo.31:18). The prophet Isaiah states, "surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save, nor his ear to dull to hear (Isa. 59:1).
Again, a well-known proverb states, "the eyes of the Lord are everywhere" (Prov.15:3). In the same vein, today's Church must not forget that the earliest theology in the New Testament is relational or existential rather than propositional or creedal.
The New Testament reflects this same visceral Hebraic perspective on human nature. A person may be lead with his heart (Rom. 10:10). One may refresh spiritually the bowels [heart]of other believers (Phlm. 7, 20). A person may come under the judgment of God when the Lord searches his kidneys [mind](Rev. 2:23). (Used e-Sword to review strong numbers in these verses.) Very suprising. These texts illustrate that for the New Testament authors passion was tied to their belief that human beings were "whole"; that is they considered one's physical, psychological, and spiritual functions to be one indivisible entity. Both Testaments affirm this perspective, as seen in the above passages. They describe a person's various mental, spiritual, and emotional reactions to stress by locating these reactions in the organs of the body were a person actually feels the effects of that stress. The Hebrews-both men and women-were able to affirm their full humanity.
They gave vent unashamedly to their feelings, for each emotion had "a time" appropriate for its expression: being angry, crying, laughing, singing, feasting, dancing, handclapping, shouting, embracing, and loving (see Eccl. 3:1- 8).
The nature of Hebrew is to paint verbal pictures with broad strokes of the brush. Theirs was primarily a descriptive of what the eyes see rather than what the mind speculates. Let us consider several examples of this earthiness. The prophecy of Isaiah describes graphically the intended fate of the people of Jerusalem. Trapped in the year 701 B.C. by the powerful Assyrian army of Sennacherib, they are described as those who have to "eat their own filth and drink their own urine" (Isaiah 36:12). Though Jerusalem was miraculously spared this Assyrian attack (Isaiah 37;cf.2 Kgs. 19), more than a century later (586 B.C.) Babylon destroyed Jerusalem. Jeremiah was one of the leading prophets of the Southern Kingdom at the time. With the same candor as Isaiah, Jeremiah depicts sorrowfully the acts of cannibalism performed by his own people as Jerusalem was brought to the very brink of starvation: "with their own hands and passionate women have cooked their own children, who became their food when my people were destroyed"
(Lam. 4:10; cf. Deut 28: 53-57). Against the background of their Babylonian exile God's people are described as sinful and unclean, who is "righteous acts are like filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6).
However, the Hebrew for "filthy rags" is far more explicit, reflecting the Hebrews vivid, earthly style of expression. It is beged iddim, literally "garment of menstruation." In similarity graphic words, Jeremiah likens Israel's sexual excesses as Canaanite shrines to that of a female wild
donkey in heat: "[You are] a wild donkey accustomed to the desert, sniffing the wind in her craving-in her heat who can restrain her? Any males that pursue her need not to tire themselves; at mating time they will find her" (Jer. 2:24).
I mean... Jesus F'ing (freaking) Spanked the money exchangers... BUT HEY... Emotion from him... is cool... but not from His children... Right Johann!! Silly Child!!!!!!!
Such vivid biblical imagery reminds us that the Hebrew people live close to nature; they were not afraid to face head on those areas of life that people in the West world would normally either euphemistically or avoid discussing altogether.
You have no idea... how tame I'AM on this site...Yep... I Learned this from others.... as if it matters...
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Interesting-I guess 'we" want to whip others, but do not want to be whipped.
You have learned this from-https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/language/philosophy-of-the-hebrew-language.htm#:~:text=The%20Philosophy%20of%20the%20Hebrew%20Language
The Philosophy of the Hebrew Language | AHRC
Jeff A. Benner is dedicated to researching and teaching the Biblical Hebrew text of the Bible based on the Ancient Hebrew culture and language. Resources include the Ancient Hebrew alphabet, Paleo-Hebrew inscriptions, dictionary, translations, root word studies and learn Biblical Hebrew course.
www.ancient-hebrew.org
Johann.
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Guess "we" want to justify the unjustifiable.
I cry, you cry, I hurt, you hurt.
1Co 12:24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it,
1Co 12:25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.
1Co 12:26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
Shalom
Johann
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
@Johann
The Pharisees bore the brunt of his venom, but they deserved every bit of it (Matt 15:7-9)...so did the money changers....but he was God's representative on earth, and we are not in his league.....we are asked to spread Christ's message with a "mild temper and deep respect". (1 Peter 3:15-16) It doesn't mean that we withhold the truth, but there is wisdom in the way we deliver it.
My old Mum used to say, "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".....If we are to catch flies or fish, we need the right things to attract them.....being demeaning or insulting is not imitating Jesus or the apostles.
Paul's address to the Athenian philosophers at the A·re·opʹa·gus, also teaches us to restrain our tongue when dealing with those whose worship is very different to ours. They never knew how irritated he was to see so much idolatry. (Acts 1:16, 19-31)
I don't think that there any need for this kind of condescension....do you? Seriously? I am sorry that this was said to you....Jesus 'called a spade a spade' but he was never mean spirited to those who were humble and teachable.
The Pharisees bore the brunt of his venom, but they deserved every bit of it (Matt 15:7-9)...so did the money changers....but he was God's representative on earth, and we are not in his league.....we are asked to spread Christ's message with a "mild temper and deep respect". (1 Peter 3:15-16) It doesn't mean that we withhold the truth, but there is wisdom in the way we deliver it.
My old Mum used to say, "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".....If we are to catch flies or fish, we need the right things to attract them.....being demeaning or insulting is not imitating Jesus or the apostles.
Paul's address to the Athenian philosophers at the A·re·opʹa·gus, also teaches us to restrain our tongue when dealing with those whose worship is very different to ours. They never knew how irritated he was to see so much idolatry. (Acts 1:16, 19-31)
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