Jesus has devised more than one way to bring people to him

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
23,727
40,442
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The serpent lies .
But it knows how to twist scrips .
Lets examine some of the lies it has been using big time on this FINAL GENEARATION as it gathers them all
to unify as one UNDER IT .
DID CHRIST really say that If one believeth not they shall be damned .
NAY NAY sayeth the serpent YE SHALL NOT BE DAMNED , GOD IS LOVE HIS ROAD IS BROAD .
The serpent is preaching this universal false love lie and i promise its not gonna save anyone who believes that lie .
Those who make and love a lie , the lake of fire awaits .
TIS TIME WE BETTER START POINTING back to the ORIGINAL GOSPEL , cause that IS WHAT SAVES .
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,622
3,912
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You presume to speak for those who would be past their flesh life who are facing God's righteous judgment. I don't believe you have any basis by which you could conceive of what their minds will think or perceive.
No basis? As in chapter and verse? I suppose not. But...
I have a clear picture in my mind, be it right or wrong.
And I would defend that picture saying, it is based on everything
I have learned about God and the afterlife. I think we know plenty.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,622
3,912
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What does this have to do with our discussion, other than the obvious?
You seem to have the idea that I am irreverent. (judging God)
I have the idea that you are fearful. (afraid to upset Him, for fear)
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,611
4,884
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
Universalism is not biblical, and using Scripture selectively ain't biblical either-

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


This is the will of him that sent me - Lest they should take a wrong meaning out of his words, as many have done since, he tells them that, far from any person being excluded from his mercy, it was the will of God that every one who saw him might believe and be saved. The power, without which they could not believe, he freely gave them; but the use of that power was their own. God gives the grace of repentance and faith to every man; but he neither repents nor believes for any man. Each must repent for his own sins, and believe in the Lord Jesus, through the grace given, or perish.



And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[Should raise it up again at the last day.] So also Joh_6:40 and Joh_6:44, the emphasis lies in the last day.
I. They looked (as hath been already said) for the resurrection of the dead at the coming of the Messiah. Take one instance: "R. Jeremiah said, ’When I die, bury me in my shirt, and with my shoes on, etc.; that when Messiah comes I may be ready dressed to meet him.’ "
Apply here the words of our Saviour: "Ye look for the resurrection when Messiah comes; and since ye seek a sign of me, perhaps ye have it in your minds that I should raise some from the dead. Let this suffice, that whoever comes to me and believes in me shall be raised up at the last day."
II. This was the opinion of that nation concerning the generation in the wilderness. "The generation in the wilderness have no part in the world to come, neither shall they stand in judgment."
Now as to this generation in the wilderness, there had been some discourse before, Joh_6:31; viz. of those that had eaten manna in the wilderness. "But that manna did not so feed them unto eternal life (as you yourselves confess) as that they shall live again, and have any part in the world to come.

But I, the true bread from heaven, do feed those that eat of me to eternal life; and such as do eat of me, i.e. that believe in me, I will raise them up at the last day; so that they shall have part in the world to come."

Transliteration: theōrōn
Morphology: V-PPA-NMS
Verb - Present Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's no.: G2334 (θεωρέω)
Meaning: To look at, gaze, behold; to see, experience, discern; to partake of.

J.
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,611
4,884
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Yes. Samuel's statement is a general one that applies to ALL people.
Incorrect-


14:13 As Nathan brought a realization of David's sin, this parable again condemns David for his actions (i.e., not allowing the heir apparent to return to the capital).

14:14 "we will surely die" This is an emphatic Hebrew grammatical structure which involves an INFINITIVE ABSOLUTE and an IMPERFECT VERB of the same root (BDB 559, KB 562).

- "Yet God does not take away life, but plans ways so that the banished one will not be cast out from Him" This statement expresses the basic orientation of YHWH, which is grace, mercy, and forgiveness. Oh my, what a great truth!

The JPSOA interprets this as a reference to King David, not YHWH. "The apparent sense is: God will not punish you for bringing back the banished Absalom," p. 643.

The MT has a COGNATE ACCUSATIVE, "not to banish" (BDB 623, KB 673, Qal IMPERFECT) his banished one (same root, Niphal ACTIVE PARTICIPLE).



14:15 "the people" This could refer to

the woman's clan or extended family who wanted to kill her only son (2 Sam. 14:7,11,16)
the people of Israel wanting their handsome heir apparent to return to Jerusalem (v. 13 and possibly v. 17)
14:16 "the hand of the man" This is literally "palm" (BDB 496).


-"the inheritance of God" Israel was the inheritance of YHWH. He gave them the land of Canaan (cf. 1 Sam. 26:19; Ps. 79:1; 136:21; Jer. 2:7). This is imagery from YHWH as "Father."

You should learn context.
J.
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,611
4,884
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Still not enough? Okay.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
You and Patrick are twisting and perverting Scriptures-


"much more those who receive" Verses 18-19 are not exactly theologically balanced. This phrase cannot be removed from the context of Romans 1-8 and used as a proof-text for universalism (that all will be saved eventually).

Humans must receive (Rom. 5:17b) God's offer in Christ. Salvation is available to all, but must be accepted individually (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13).

Adam's one act of rebellion issued in the total rebellion of all humans. The one sinful act is magnified! But in Christ one righteous sacrifice is magnified to cover the many individual sins as well as the corporate affect of sin. The "much more" of Christ's act is emphasized (cf. Rom. 5:9,10,15,17). Grace abounds!

5:17,18 "the gift of righteousness will reign in life. . .justification of life" Jesus is God's gift and provision for all of fallen mankind's spiritual needs (cf. 1 Cor. 1:30). These parallel phrases can mean

1. sinful mankind is given right standing with God through Christ's finished work which results in a "godly life"

2. this phrase is synonymous to "eternal life"


The verb "reign" is used several times in this context.


1. "death reigned from Adam to Moses," Rom. 5:14 (aorist active indicative)

2. "death reigned through the one," Rom. 5:17 (aorist active indicative)

3. "much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life," Rom. 5:17 (future active indicative)

4. "sin reigned in death," Rom. 5:21 (aorist active indicative)

5. "grace would reign," Rom. 5:21 (aorist active subjunctive)

6. "do not let sin reign," Rom. 6:12 (present active imperative)

Paul's personification of sin and death versus the gift of grace is a powerful way to express the theological truth!

Step in line.
J.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
8,422
3,599
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have this distinct feeling I'm on ignore by most here and don't receive notifications.
Shalom
J.
Join the club, a club well worth being in! They attack our Bible like the Devil himself!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johann

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,611
4,884
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Join the club, a club well worth being in! They attack our Bible like the Devil himself!
Absolutely correct brother-and what is worse, this is permissible-the attacking of our Bibles
We are in the end time.

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


Shalom
Johann.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks and Jack

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
2,513
3,552
113
66
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I don't like the answer? Do you like the answer?
I assume you mean that God asks us to be reconciled to Him so that he won't destroy us, or torture us forever?
That's not a gift. That is extortion.

I think he wants to reconcile the relationship. It's not a threat, but a loving invitation.
Is that so hard to accept?
It's not extortion but a fair warning of the natural consequences of sin.....death. God is a consuming fire and ultimately cannot deny His nature....everything that is wicked and evil and not of Him (hidden and sheltered in the cleft of the Rock) will be destroyed at some point. He is longsuffering now and holding back the full brunt of wrath, but that merciful longsuffering has an end one day - the natural world and all natural life in it have an expiry date known only to the Father and will wear out like a garment and like a garment God will change it. Satan knows this...scripture says he knows his time is short...guess he knows what is written in the scriptures. In the meantime the Lord in love devised and offers mankind the way of escape, an ark (Christ), as it was in the days of Noah, that whosoever will may be saved. As the bible says only a remnant will be saved, those whom God has foreknown. This is the gospel - and everything has been set in motion from the foundation of the world. There is no stopping it, so best to get on that ark and preach it (Christ and Him crucified) before it's too late!
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,622
3,912
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's not extortion but a fair warning of the natural consequences of sin.....death.
Jesus has already paid the death penalty on our behalf.
He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Patrick1966

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
8,422
3,599
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus has already paid the death penalty on our behalf.
He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Conditional upon believing and serving God! You must have a lot of verses missing from your Bible.

Mk 16 He that believeth no shall be DAMNED!
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,622
3,912
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
those who would be past their flesh life who are facing God's righteous judgment.
"God's righteous judgment", is that what you call it?
Putting those he did not predestine for eternal life on the eternal BBQ grill?
I hope he wears oven mitts, that fire is HOT.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Lizbeth

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,622
3,912
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't believe you have any basis by which you could conceive of what their minds will think or perceive.
Was Jesus misleading us in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?

Those in the story can see, speak, feel comfort and discomfort.
The Rich Man was thirsty. He sought water to cool his tongue.
He had compassion on his brothers, not wanting them to end up in his situation.
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
23,727
40,442
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have this distinct feeling I'm on ignore by most here and don't receive notifications.
Shalom
J.
Get used to it my friend . Most either have me on ignore or they just ignore .
BUT no matter what , KEEP ON TYPING OUT THE TRUTH . Some will hear . though most reject . known
unto GOD are all things . HE knows who will and who wont recieve HIM . We dont .
Thus we do the one thing required of us . SIMPLY speak and live by the TRUTH .
Those who hear amen , those who forbear , sadly its on them . But never give up my friend .
never grow weary . In order for folks to get rid of me , either me is gonna have to die
or they have to ban me . But the only joy i have is exhorting on the things of Christ . And seeing others do the same .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
23,727
40,442
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Irreverent speech.
J.
Its exactly why we ought not to heed calvin .
Calvin overthought pre destination .
IF we , but read the bible we see the heart of GOD within those pages .
The cry sounds like this . WHY WILL YE DIE o wicked ones , REPENT , for I HAVE NO PLEASURE in the death of the wicked
but rather they REPENT .
You can see it in the cry of CHRIST over JERSUALEM TOO .
HOW OFTEN I WOULD HAVE GATHERED YOU UNTO ME , ONLY YOU WOULD NOT .
The fault lies on the created , NOT THE CREATOR .
As i am SURE YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS MY FRIEND . Just march on in the LORD .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
23,727
40,442
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Was Jesus misleading us in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?

Those in the story can see, speak, feel comfort and discomfort.
The Rich Man was thirsty. He sought water to cool his tongue.
He had compassion on his brothers, not wanting them to end up in his situation.
But it was too late . Sure he desired not the death of his brethren . But for him it was too late .
I am sure many will be wailing and full of regret and misery in that lake of fire .
BUT notice something .
EVEN when the rich man cried out in torments for any kind of mercy . HE NEVER GOT IT .
My advice is GET OFF this false hope stuff and false love stuff you be preaching
and rather preach JESUS CHRIST and the DIRE , EVER SO DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON HIM .
Cause one thing i know and that by grace . IF ONE BELIEVES IN HIM , THEY WONT BE WAILING
at their end as was the rich man . STOP , this instant , cease and dissist from your false hope which will save none
and rather condemn all who bought into it . if you love folks so much , THEN PREACH THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON CHRIST to them .
START WITH THAT and STAY WITH THAT .