Thats not what I said. Didn't need your criteria.
You said Paul didn't need to consider himself an apostle. Where did you read that?
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Thats not what I said. Didn't need your criteria.
Thanks for the information. When you said "12th Apostle" I got all this imagery of something else like the 13th warrior, bad luck number really.While Many count Paul to be the replacement for Judas Iscariot, Paul himself did not.
1 Corinthians 15:1-6 KJV
1) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5) And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6) After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
Paul did not include himself among the twelve.
1 Corinthians 15:7-8 KJV
7) After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8) And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
Paul was the Apostle to the gentiles, and was not counted as one of the 12.
Much love!
Paul wrote 13 for sure and some think 14 of the 27 NT books. So its a minimum of 48% of the NT books were written by Paul. Luke wrote Acts and Luke. that is 2/27.I wouldn't remove any of the books of the Bible.
The one who wrote the largest part of the New Testament wasn't even neccessarily a Jew, and was not called an apostle, that being Luke. Let's leave his books there also.
Much love!
Luke wrote more by volume. If you count by books, Paul. If you count by letters/words, Luke.Paul wrote 13 for sure and some think 14 of the 27 NT books. So its a minimum of 48% of the NT books were written by Paul. Luke wrote Acts and Luke. that is 2/27.
hope this helps !!!
Paul was the Apostle to the gentiles. You didn't give where in Acts, but I can quote the Peter passage,The point being Paul not the 12 is who God clearly used moreso than all the other Apostles. Luke attests to that fact in Acts and so does Peter in 2 Peter 3: 14-18.
And he called Pauls writings Scripture- on par or equal with the OT. And Peter was corrected by Paul and confronted by him for being a hypocrite.Paul was the Apostle to the gentiles. You didn't give where in Acts, but I can quote the Peter passage,
2 Peter 3:14-18 KJV
14) Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17) Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18) But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Does this passage show God using Paul "more" than the 12? Only that some of what Paul wrote can be hard to understand. I can attest to that!
Much love!
So, I'll leave it with what I wrote in post 44.
Much love!
As I said, I'm not really interested in an extended discussion about this. I've satisfied myself about the "Poem". I'm not concerned with convincing you of anything other than what you already think. Others can look for themself.@marks, it seems you're not going to answer post #68. I didn't think so.
As I said, I'm not really interested in an extended discussion about this.
It means I've already spent as much time reading that as I care to. I don't find it adds anything to me, and takes up time. That's all there is to it.I didn't ask for an extended discussion. I just asked if you'd quote what you supposedly read about Adam and Eve in a different thread. The fact you refuse to do that speaks volumes.
It means I've already spent as much time reading that as I care to. I don't find it adds anything to me, and takes up time. That's all there is to it.
Much love!
Technically I agree, but in the broader scheme of things, Paul seems no less important than the original eleven, wouldn't you say?While Many count Paul to be the replacement for Judas Iscariot, Paul himself did not.
1 Corinthians 15:1-6 KJV
1) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5) And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6) After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
Paul did not include himself among the twelve.
1 Corinthians 15:7-8 KJV
7) After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8) And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
Paul was the Apostle to the gentiles, and was not counted as one of the 12.
Much love!
The way you were speaking before sounded like you were referring to Rev. 22:18, which is why I said what I did. You clarified yourself just now below:
I know that the scene of the election of Matthias was shown in full to Maria Valtorta by Jesus, which she described in more detail. Therefore, I consider her description of this scene as another real witness to it on April 26th, 1947 to be Scripture, divinely inspired, and authoritative, just as I do of the descriptions by those who were real witnesses to this scene thousands of years prior.
There's an intrinsic knowing of Truth that I feel when reading from the book The Poem of the Man-God, just as I feel when reading from the books that make up The Bible. The numerous testimonies and studies done by professionals in various fields, who've analyzed and tested the credibility of Maria Valtorta personally and her literary works further fortify my conviction. Below are just a few:
(i) The results from the mathematical analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:
(ii) The results from the astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:
(iii) In David Webster, M.Div.'s chapter "Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology" of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, he relates:
(iv) In professional engineer Jean-François Lavère's The Valtorta Enigma, he writes:
However, the excerpt in post #6 from the book The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. V that expounds on the scene of the election of Matthias doesn't change what little we know of the scene from the book the Acts of the Apostles. Also, Maria Valtorta never built a doctrine based on her visions, nor started her own personal religion.
Jesus's apostle John of Zebedee stated there's many things Jesus did that aren't written down. So, if Jesus instructed you to write down some of those things, you'd say that is "adding to what is written" and considered "new revelation". What do you mean by that?
Just because there were things not written doesn't mean someone can go back in and fill them in later though.
I guess we all have to decide for ourselves what we believe as coming from God. I'm sticking to the Bible.
Much love!
I'm curious, what do you think about Paul referring to "the 12"? Doesn't that mean that Paul agreed that those men were "the 12"?
Much love!
Important? I think he, and the 12 were all important. It's Scripture, that Paul was not less than the other apostles, I think.Technically I agree, but in the broader scheme of things, Paul seems no less important than the original eleven, wouldn't you say?
Even so, all who are sent by Jesus are rightly called apostles.
Jesus declared that He has "told us all things." Past tense. Meaning that Revelation 22:18 does indeed apply...
All of which means, we are to as much as expect every mystery regarding the scriptures to be revealed during these times, and because of false prophets every spirit should be tested. Nothing new. Indeed, just as it is written, there are many.
In conclusion, what do these findings mean? That Maria Valtorta is such a good writer to be able to modulate the linguistic parameters in so many different ways and as a function of character of the plot and type of literary text, so as to cover almost the entire range of the Italian literature? Or that visions and dictations really occurred and she was only a mystical, very intelligent and talented “writing tool”? Of course, no answer grounded in science can be given to the latter question.
It seems that she has written down observations and facts really happened at the time of Jesus’ life, as a real witness of them would have done. The question arises, unsolved from a point of view exclusively rational, how all this is possible because what Maria Valtorta writes down cannot, in any way, be traced back to her fantasy or to her astronomical and meteorological knowledge. In conclusion, if from one hand the scientific inquire has evidenced all the surprising and unexpected results reported and discussed in this paper, on the other hand our actual scientific knowledge cannot readily explain how these results are possible.
An additional line of incontrovertible evidence (which Valtorta was encouraged by Jesus to include for the benefit of “the difficult doctors” of the Church) deals with the vast amount of geographical, climatic, agricultural, historical, astronomical, and cartographical information given in her work. Authorities in these fields have verified the accuracy of what she has reported with appropriate astonishment. Valtorta accurately identifies this agricultural and climatic information that is often unique to Palestine with the appropriate calendar period which she often specifically identifies. Without any evidence of planning and with hardly any corrections, Valtorta ends up with a perfectly flowing 3½ year story line with Jesus appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Valtorta shows Jesus to have traversed the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists. Not once, however, does she have Jesus (or any one of the other 500 characters) in a place inconsistent with either the story line or distance or timing necessities.
The work [The Poem of the Man-God] overflows with exact data from the viewpoint of history, topography, architecture, geography, ethnology, chronology, etc. Furthermore, Maria Valtorta often provides precise details known only by some scholars, and in certain cases, she even records details totally unknown at the time she recorded them, and which archeology, history, or science have later confirmed.