Christ's sinless Head with a sinful body?

[Peterlag]

Man, you really are a pervert. Bible literally says He's firstborn and everything is created through Him and for Him. I already citated it.

I believe it's Colossians 1:16 that you are referring to which says all things. The all things that are listed are the things the Christ will need to function with his church in the life that we will have after this one. Thrones, dominions, principalities and powers. You guys read right over this because you want it to say planets and stars and oceans. But it does not.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

[Ghada]

I'm not preaching my own gospel, that's what Bible says. No matter what you do, you'll continue to sin and Bible admits it.

Your gospel and bible book admits it

No one is righteous and can't be.

Not you and can't be.

It's impossible to be saved through your deeds.

Not through your sinful deeds

And God isn't expecting from you to completely stop sinning, because He knows, it's impossible for human.

So, Jesus wasn't human.

You put very much pressure on people with your words.

It's called the conviction of the Holy Spirit, which you haven't quite fully seared your conscience to.

You should be holy, but you can't.

You should, but won't.

You're saved by your faith

You're not save by your unbelief in doing His righteousness.

and God declares you righteous through your faith,

God declares your faith is unbelief.

because it's impossible to be righteous through your deeds.

Unbelief.

But He justifies him (even through he's a sinner) due to his faith,

No sinner of the devil is justified with God, nor do sinners have faith toward God.

Repent of sinning, then you can have the faith of Jesus to do His will.

calls him a friend and gives him eternal life for free as a gift.

We are friends of God by doing His will only. The friends of the world by sinning with the world are enemies of God.

What I'm saying is He doesn't expect from you to completely stop sinning,

He doesn't expect any unrepented sinner to stop sinning.

but you yourself should stop doing it as much as you can, to have good conscience.

Your conscience depends entirely upon your doctrine to keep your conscience clear while sinning.

My conscience depends entirely upon my words and deeds. If I do good, my consciences is clean. If I do evil, my conscience is defiled.

You keep your conscience cleared by doctrine alone, whether doing good or evil.

 

[Ghada]

I'm not saying you can leave some sins of your choice, but we have peace with God through Jesus and are no longer separated from Him through our sins.

The soul that sins is dead to God. The wages of sinning is still death. We still separate ourselves from God by sinning and trespassing against Him.

No person's doctrine can disannul the law of sin and death. Men's doctrines end in the grave.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.

Those doing God's righteousness are righteous as He. Those doing the devil's unrighteousness are unrighteous as he.

God is not an unjust judge with respect of persons to condemn one man for sinning with the devil, while excusing another doing the same thing with the devil.

For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and are doing the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

What we believe does not 'shield' us from being condemned for what we do. Believing Jesus is to not do those things worthy of condemnation. Jesus's shield of faith is not against condemnation for doing wrong, but is against doing wrong.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man is sowing, that shall he also reap. For he that is sowing to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that is sowing to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Jesus Crist died for our past, present and all future sins.

That's why you resent the 'pressure' of the Spirit of grace while sinning. You want to believe you're already forgiven even before you sin against Him, but apparently He's still able to convict your conscience to repent and be forgiven.

There does come a day when He stops doing so, either on earth or in the grave.

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable(*); There is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; With their tongues they have used deceit; The poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.

You prove your unbelief by quoting the Bible pertaining to unbelievers.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

And so, you are not righteous. You do not understand. You do not seek God. You are gone out of the way. You do no good. Your throat is an open grave. Your tongue is deceitful. Your lips are poisonous. You curse bitterly with your mouth. Your ways are destructive. You know no peace and have no fear of God.

That's quite a salvation you have there. The doctrines and salvations of men end in the grave.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:9‭-‬20 KJV
* — worthless(NIV, NET), improper, everyone is no good

And so, you are a transgressor of God's law and know you are a sinner.

Everyone is equal before God through their deeds.

Everyone is not like you.

Everyone is a sinner and everyone is no good.

Not everyone is no good like you.

If you're thinking you're better than others and closer to God because you're less of a sinner then they are, you're wrong.

Sinning less is not closer to God. Sinning not is fellowship with God and walking in His light.

You're completely nothing through your deeds and only through your faith you become closer to Him.

We are judged by our deeds. Being something just by believing it is delusional. We can believe what we want, but our deeds tell the truth.

But you're not required to completely leave sin to be saved and you can't do so

Not by your unbeliever's gospel.

. Salvation is through faith.

Yours is. You save yourself by your own faith whether sinning or not.

That's why you dismiss the 'pressure' of the Holy Ghost to repent of sinning and be forgiven by God.

What is man, that he should be clean? And he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous? Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; Yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight. How much more abominable and filthy is man, Which drinketh iniquity like water?
Job 15:14‭-‬16 KJV

Now you quote the false accuser of Job. They did the same with Jesus, and still do so with His saints.

The sins you have citated are very obvious and directly lead to death if you continue to sin with them, I'm not saying any of it is allowed in any form, not even from time to time. (But even if you sin by any of it, if you repent wholeheartedly you'll be saved.)

God commands men everywhere to repent of all sins and trespasses, not just the ones we don't enjoy doing.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

What's to repent of if you're already forgiven by faith alone? Don't you believe your own gospel?

What I'm saying is you can't be holy, I know Christians are called holy in the Bible, but you can't fulfill the law to the very end.

Back to your gospel of unbelief.

You can't be kind to everyone, humble yourself completely before God and completely abstain from sin.

No, you can't, because you won't.

You can't be righteous by your deeds. And no one can for "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified".

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Matthew 19:25‭-‬26 KJV

Not with you. You preach it is impossible.

Jesus directly says it's impossible.

You do, not being with God.

Now this is something new.

New to you, who says you are in the light by faith, while walking in darkness by deeds.

He's not rebuking anyone at all and this message is written to believers.

Written to sinners calling themselves believers. God does not command man to sin and say they are sinners. The god of this world wants all men to sin, have sin, and say so.

You're speaking completely from yourself

True, myself from the Bible.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

And you speak for yourself and your bible, that says keep sinning, because it's impossible not to keep sinning with the devil against God.

John says: we shouldn't walk in darkness, but in light, just like He is. But we're sinners anyway, and if we're not admitting it, we're liars. We shouldn't sin, but walk in light, but even if we sin, we have an advocate in the heavens, who's the atoning sacrifice for our sins. There's not even one word of rebuke. It's just the right way to say about it.

There is no rebuke nor help for anyone that says he is in the light by faith, while walking in darkness by deeds.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[Ghada]

God is Spirit
Jesus
What's the third?

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

 

[Ghada]

We have been and are being sanctified by the Blood and by the presence of Christ's spirit

True. We are still being saved for resurrection unto life, if we are still living pure in spirit and in truth.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

taking up residence in these earthen (dirty and weak) vessels of ours.

Sorry to hear it. My body is pretty clean and strong at present.

But the bible warns that if we keep on wilfully sinning after coming to knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for such sins.

No 'but' for the holy saints of pure heart and life.

However, if we do sin, then the Spirit can convict us and draw us back to God to repent and be reconciled to Him.

If we willfully resist the Spirit to keep sinning unto the grave, then we have no Advocate nor hope like all unrepentant sinners of the world.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

There is sinning unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Such sins should never once be named among us.

True. Neither named nor done.

But if we occasionally sin 'smaller' sins inadvertently due to our weak humanity such sins may be graciously overlooked, passed over (Passover, anyone?)

Sin not big, only sin small?

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Only those seeking to be gods unto themselves, begin judging which sins are big or small.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

We have no right with God to choose what is good and evil for ourselves.

and longsuffered by God of those who belong to Him.

God longsuffers by mercy for men to repent. Not for sons that have repented.

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

God doesn't suffer any sinning in His dear Son's body. Neither does the Son. If we choose to sin and be friendly members of the world, that's our choice. But, God doesn't have to put up with it in His kingdom.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

I mean even we humans overlook certain issues or problems with people we know and care about.

Not if we know and care about them from the heart. Especially not if we can do something about it.

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

I'm not one of the 'we humans' I used to be. Now I'm a Jesus human.

Everyone has character flaws that might come to the surface now and then and that the individual themself often isn't even aware of.

Not if we are washed clean in Jesus blood.

In Christ Jesus, there are no more secret sins, only light.

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

If we allow lust back in our hearts, then we can repent and be washed clean.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

I've never met a truly "perfect" Christian, in the narrow literal sense of that word.

You don't know what that word means, not being one.

Most sinners don't want to meet saints with a perfect heart and blameless life toward God. That goes double for sinners that have made a doctrine of justified sinning to soothe their conscience with.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

This is why is that we are told to bear with one another in love, and to bear with the weak.

Sinners are not the weak. They are the dead.

(There are times we even have to bear with ourselves and our own shortcomings and weakness that we wish we didn't have, and it is humbling to have them.)

Sins and trespasses are not shortcomings and weakness. They are fallings and death.

God HAS given us the land of promise into our hands, as He told the Israelites.........but like those early Israelites we still need to do battle to take the ground little by little, in the wisdom of our wise God.

We take the holy ground with a holy heart and life. We therefore battle against the temptations of the devil and sin not, in order to stand our holy ground.

Unrepented sinners are trespassers on holy ground. Until the grave.

Such struggles are necessary and good for us..

True. The trials of our faith through all temptations and tribulations without sinning, make us strong in the body of the Lord.

Falling to temptation to sin with the devil make us aliens to the body of the Lord.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

..as I'm sure most of us have heard how butterflies need the physical struggle to get out of the cocoon in order to be able to fly - the struggle squeezes lifeblood into their wings. Beautiful analogy there in my opinion.

True. So long as we remain butterflies and not make ourselves wasps.

So it seems there is the reality of a "yes but not yet" factor in the Christian life to be considered.

Not in Jesus' gospel. It's repent and yes to Jesus at all times from here on out.

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Lusting back to repented sinning is already going back to sinning, so far as Jesus is concerned:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Granted, you do have a decent Christian religion for yourself, and no doubt do good as other religions of man, but it's just not the pure religion of Jesus Christ found in the Bible.

No person on earth while sinning with the devil is now in the pure and holy and sin-free body of the sinless Head Christ Jesus.

 

[Ghada]

The sin nature is the carnal mind.

Unique. No man has a carnal minded nature to sin, until sinning for the first time. I like it. Thanks.

Babes are conceived, made, and born with a pure mind and clean conscience and lightened by Christ from the womb, having done neither good nor bad, knowing neither sin nor righteousness.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

You fail to understand what sarx means.

Flesh.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The spirit and flesh don't mix. Doing good or evil is spiritual from the heart and mind of man with the body. Being made physically mortal is from God.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Being made in the image of God is to have a spirit and mind of intent and reason to do good or evil. Angels are created with the same power of spiritual choice, but not beasts of the field. They have a spirit, but not a heart and mind to choose good nor evil.

I agree with your take on the sin nature being the carnal mind of men. It's not in the flesh, but in the spirit and mind of man. Even as righteousness is not in the flesh, but in the spirit and mind only.

The flesh just does what the mind does with it, whether good or evil, until the spirit departs.

Everyone is born with a physical body, (but this is not entirely the complete definition of sarx). The carnal mind is not the brain.
God has a mind with thoughts, feelings and will, but no physical body.

Exactly. Neither is the heart of man the blood pump of the body. Neither is the soul the body, but the hidden man of the heart.

The mind uses the brain to function in this physical body, but it is not physical. You cannot dissect a brains and see thoughts, love, hate, memories.

Exactamundo again. Neither do we dissect the body to find lust and sin, or holiness and righteousness in it's tissues.

It's so refreshing to here common sense teaching from Christians. From some of the stuff I've seen written about the inherent evilness of our own bodies, and blaming them for sinning with them, most of the world would call it cuckoobird religion.

I saw a western movie where a cowboy lost a bet to keep his palm on a glass jar, when the rattler within struck the glass, and he yanked his hand away. He looked at his hand and began beating it on the bar. Like it was his hand's fault for yanking away.

A thought is invisible, then the mind uses the chemicals of the brain to send messages to the body. It is highly integrated. So an unbeliever is a living soul which not only body, but with mind, emotions, will, your personality includes talents, etc. This entire being is sarx, the Flesh.

oops. The spirit of man is not the flesh housed in, nor is the flesh the spirit. Spirit is spirit and flesh is flesh, and the twain never meet as one in this life.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Man is not soul, spirit, and body, even as animals are not spirit and body. Man is a soul and spirit with a natural body made by Christ. Animals are spirits with natural bodies made by Christ.

We are souls and spirits that have a natural body. It's the only reason we are made a little lower than the angels are are made spirits without natural bodies.

It's how the Word made flesh was also made to be a little lower than the angels, having the same natural body as all men and women.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

All natural bodies created by Christ taste of death in the end, just as Jesus' own body prepared naturally by the Spirit from the seed of Abraham by David in the flesh of Mary.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

It's nature is corrupt.

Oops. I thought were teaching against our bodies being made sinful and the cause for sinning.

Man only has and knows sin and is made sinful only by sinning. And the death of sinning toward God only comes upon men by sinning against God.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Sin is not passed on to man. And the death of sin only passes on men that sin. Sin only enters the world when men sin, and death to God thereby.

Adam was the first man to sin in this world and so died to God that day, but he is not the last man to sin and die to God to this very day.

 

[Ghada]

Its spirit (also a part of the crearure is dead, not functioning), therefore needs to be transformed.

The soul and heart of man is transformed into newness of life, with our spirit and mind renewed. The body remains the same until the grave. The redemption and transformation of the body is not until the resurrection of the dead.

This is clearly why the Bible teaches that we are render our old self dead.

Not our old bodies, but our old life. We crucify the old man on our own cross for Jesus' sake, and mortify the deeds of the body.

Self-flagellation and suicide are carnal minds making a mockery of the cross and newness of life in Christ Jesus..

The health of the body can be made better and even restored by not sinning with it, and can be quickened by the Spirit, but it's still just the same old body of flesh, that is naturally made to die after such and such time on earth.

Obviously, our physical bodies are not dead, so it is notreferrinf to our bodies. It is referring to our old nature: sinful thoughts, feelings, desires, will, etc). We are to live, walk in the Spirit, not the flesh.

Good. I must have mistook you. Now we're back on track.

Our body is flesh, and our soul is spirit, and our soul is responsible for what we do in and with our bodies.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Not our bodies, but only we are judged by our works we do with our bodies.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

It's our soul that sins with our body against God. The body dies by nature by the will of Christ who makes all natural bodies mortal.

Again, thus is not talking about physical walking with you legs. Your carnal mind ( old self that you are to render dead) is separate from your spiritual mind ( your new creature, which has been transformed and is growing.

Good again. When we repent of sinning, and purify our souls through the Spirit and out to death all sinful deeds, then we now have the new pure mind of Christ, and not the old mind of our past life.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Our inward parts are our minds and hearts within our bodies. We are not our fleshy bodies.

You have heard the phrase double-minded. Well, some Christians fall back into their old bad habits ( thinking , desires, feelings( which are then manifest into physical actions.

True. The mind knows the law of Christ, but the heart does not do it with the body.

Changing the mind about sin and death by hearing the word, is not repenting with the heart from sinning and dying to God to do the word.

Wrong, see above explanation.

You mean the part of your teaching I disagree with and have challenged in detail.

Wrong, see above explanation

I said some Christians teach sin in the flesh in order to believe they are in the body of Christ, while sinning with the flesh. Not all Christians that sin try to blame it on their flesh, nor try to believe they are still members of the holy and pure body of the sinless Head Jesus Christ.

That includes me, if I sin. I know I must repent in godly sorrow unto forgiveness and reconciliation with God.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Not all the double minded excuse it as a normal Christian lifetime. As in Romans 7, I was once double of heart in the faith, and knew it was a wretchedness to repent of and be delivered from, in order to go on the perfection of Romans 8.

I did repent, because I never decieved myself that I was not condemned as in Romans 8, while sinning in Romans 7.

Some Christians sear their conscience to the conviction of the Spirit while sinning. They repent of being wretched in double heartedness instead of the sinning, and just convince themselves Roman's 8 no condemnation. They repent being convicted and condemned for sinning, not the sinning itself.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

They also tell themselves that hate iniquity by not enjoying it any more. But that's also a lie. The 'not enjoying' it part.

 

[Peterlag]

Man, you really are a pervert. Bible literally says He's firstborn and everything is created through Him and for Him. I already citated it.

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

Tough question I know. You're not the only one who can't answer it. In fact, I have never found anyone who can.

 

[Ghada]

Jesus is God in the flesh. His soul and spirit were pure at birth and remained pure.

True. Like all babes in the womb made and lightened by Christ, but unlike all men after the womb, He never sinned unto death.

He had no sin nature because He is God.

True. He never had a carnal mind by sinning, and remained God in the flesh through all trials, temptations, and persecution, even unto death on the cross.

Now, we that did have a carnal mind by sinning, have repented and have the new heart and mind of Christ, to do the same as He in the flesh, and walk as He walked as holy and blameless sons of God.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

We see here that the carnal mind against God (which we can call the sin nature had by sinning) is by doing sinful works with the flesh.

No, you just did not get the right teaching of what sarx is from the start.

Much of what you teach is right, but not all. There is no sin stuff in the naturally made flesh and blood by Christ. All sin and righteousness is spiritual in nature, because it is the spirit of man made in God's image, that either lust to do evil or desire to do good with our bodies.

It's the same with angels that are made spirits without natural mortal bodies.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

It's the soul of man that sins with the body and dies in the spirit, to take on a mind of enmity with God. Just as Lucifer and the angels that sinned.

When a man is sinning, he now has a carnal mind at enmity with God, and uses the body to sin against Him. I can agree that the carnal mind of sinners is the sin nature of a mind at enmity with God, by doing wicked works.

No heart, soul, spirit, nor mind is ever created and made sinful with sin by Christ. It's men and angels that do that to themselves by our own lusting and sinning against God.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

Angels and men create our own lust of heart to sin against God, not Christ when creating angels and men.

And the death toward God of sin, comes upon angels and men only by sinning.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The heart and soul is sinful only by lusting and sinning, and the body is mortal by nature when made by Christ.

Some Christians that believe in being made and born with a carnal minded sin nature, use the lie as justification for continued sinning. They say it is impossible to go and sin no more, due to their rascally bodies made by Christ to tempt and defeat them.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

They further delude themselves into believing their hearts are in the body of Christ, while their bodies are just doing what comes natural and sinning. They claim a heart for Christ, while doing those unrighteous things that only proceed from the heart of man:

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:


They're with God 'in spirit' and only enemies of God 'in the flesh'. They call it being saved and justified by faith alone apart their works.

"Hey Jesus! I'm with you in spirit man! My heart and mind is all yours buddy! It's just this sinful body you gave me that won't behave. Bad body! Bad!"

Christ is not the real devil in the room and tempter, by making any creature of His with lust and sin. All creatures are made by His good will for His good pleasure. No creature whether angel, man, or beast of the field, was ever made nor is being made by Christ, against His own will for His condemnation.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

If you can show any thing here that is not reasonable from the verses quoted, I'd be glass to see it. I've yet to meet any one wants to continue believing in being made and born with a sin nature (which would only be by another christ), to even address these points, much less show in error in them.

As you've already seen, I certainly can adopt something new that is agreeable with the Bible. Such as the carnal mind made by sinning becomes a mind with sin nature and so naturally sinful against God. Our minds become enemies of God with sin nature by doing wicked works. I can certainly agree with that. Thanks.

 

[Ghada]

The human is fearfuly made.

Truly. Wonderfully by Christ. Not with sin nor fear in it. Nor with righteousness and love in it.

All bodies of flesh are just dust and grass. No sin nor righteousness in it, but just natural mortality. Here today and gone tomorrow, but the word of the Lord and the souls and spirits of men and angels go on forever, whether to life and honor or shame and contempt.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The intricacies of beyond comprehension really: Mind, body, soul and spirit - highly integrated and really above our comprehension. We are just given the basics.

The basics are the comprehension. We are all wondrously made a soul and spirit by Christ in the lower parts of the earth, and our bodies are made and conceived naturally by seed and flesh of men and women.

Jesus' own body prepared for Him by the Spirit, was made the same as all men from the seed of David in Mary's flesh.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

The virgin birth was not without seed and flesh of a man and women, but was simply the prophesied sign that Christ is come in the very same natural flesh and blood of all men and women on earth.

The WORD IS sharper then a two-edged sword able to divide soul and spirit. If they were the same, you could not divide them! And so when you die, you will be separated from the old sarx.

True, our soul and spirit will leave the body behind for dead. The faith of Jesus is to appear in His presence with Him, and not in hell with the angels and men that sin unto death.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

No man has a carnal minded nature to sin, until sinning for the first time. I like it. Thanks.

No we are born that way.

Babes are conceived, made, and born with a pure mind and clean conscience

Babies sin before anyone teaches them. Before they can talk they are lying manipulating and selfish. "Did you knock over that lamp , no, he did it - pointing to his brother." You haven't experienced a child in the terrible twos stage? Who taught them to get on the floor, kick and scream in a store to get their way? I didn't - did you?
A child has a toy, doesn't play with it for a long time and then another child goes over and grabs it. They see this and the tears and anger well up snd they selfishly demand it back, "My toy" crying, fussing, maybe even hitting the child. Who taught them to lie, covet, bear false witness, the parents? Who Taught them to defy their parents - at every turn?
Sorry, it was already in their nature, born sinners - not innocent. Obviously just out of the womb, they look so innocent ... until they start to figure stuff out, how to get their selfish way.

 

[Ghada]

Tough question I know. You're not the only one who can't answer it. In fact, I have never found anyone who can.

I don't call you a pervert, because I don't know that. So, don't try to lump me in with those who do. Thanks.

What I call you is an unbeliever in the trinitarian doctrine of the Godhead, that I do know it is obvious from the Bible and inarguable. Beginning with the Word was with God and was God. The Word made flesh was God with God in the beginning.

Your question is therefore a silly one of unbelief to me, therefore I quote Paul in refusing to engage such things. Especially after you've also doted about silly word games, rather than just believe what's written for a child to understand.

I don't bother with endless originnal languages and/or manuscript arguments. The plain English is more than enough to lead to repentance and salvation of the soul, as well as clearly understand the first principles of the doctrine of God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

For them that believe all the words of the Bible, and take Him at His word, that is.

 

[Peterlag]

I don't call you a pervert, because I don't know that. So, don't try to lump me in with those who do. Thanks.

What I call you is an unbeliever in the trinitarian doctrine of the Godhead, that I do know it is obvious from the Bible and inarguable. Beginning with the Word was with God and was God. The Word made flesh was God with God in the beginning.

Your question is therefore a silly one of unbelief to me, therefore I quote Paul in refusing to engage such things. Especially after you've also doted about silly word games, rather than just believe what's written for a child to understand.

I don't bother with endless originnal languages and/or manuscript arguments. The plain English is more than enough to lead to repentance and salvation of the soul, as well as clearly understand the first principles of the doctrine of God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

For them that believe all the words of the Bible, and take Him at His word, that is.

Calling me names does not bother me. In fact, I would be worried if they did not call me names. I reached out to you because I liked what you wrote about the sinless head and body. I went through a bunch of your posts and copied them and then put them all together and edited them down since many were you repeating stuff to others. I then sent it out to my friends. I then wanted to learn more about you so I started commenting on your stuff. We can now be done since we do not agree on who the Christ is.

 

[Ghada]

No we are born that way.

Now we are not.

Babies sin before anyone teaches them. Before they can talk they are lying manipulating and selfish. "Did you knock over that lamp , no, he did it - pointing to his brother." You haven't experienced a child in the terrible twos stage? Who taught them to get on the floor, kick and scream in a store to get their way? I didn't - did you?

My kids never screamed and kicked in a store, because I got that out of them at home. And they knew if they misbehaved in a way to disrupt others at a church, store, movie place, restaurant, friend's house, etc... then I would take them back home ASAP. The reason children do such things in public, is because their loser parents haven't accepted their responsibility when having children, and set aside their own personal wishes to eat a meal or watch a stupid movie when necessary.

In any case, your humanist reasoning is not doctrine of Christ from the Bible.

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts. I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

If you're not going to believe the simple words of the Bible saying that all babes are made by Christ doing neither good nor evil, and are an heritage of the Lord, and not a curse of the devil from conception, then neither will you believe me. Which again, doesn't matter to me.

Children like all men have sinned after the womb at whatever time they awake to sin and righteousness, and made ourselves sinners thereby, save one.

If you want to believe in another christ making you a carnal minded sinner at conception and darkens your heart coming out of the womb, then go ahead. And if you want to also use it as others do, to justify your continued sinning with your christ, then that is fine by me too.

But that is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible, and the only Maker of all creatures with His light and for His good pleasure, nor is your sinner-making christ mine. That's only the god of this world, and not a creator nor maker of anything but a lie. Beginning with the false accusation of God Himself being the one making little sinner devil's in the womb.

All I care bout here is any sound correction to any point I have made. You can still do so if you like. I've very reasonable, as you've seen by adopting your definition of the sin nature as the being the carnal mind. Which becomes an enemy of God by wicked works.

A child has a toy, doesn't play with it for a long time and then another child goes over and grabs it. They see this and the tears and anger well up snd they selfishly demand it back, "My toy" crying, fussing, maybe even hitting the child. Who taught them to lie, covet, bear false witness, the parents? Who Taught them to defy their parents - at every turn?
Sorry, it was already in their nature, born sinners - not innocent. Obviously just out of the womb, they look so innocent ... until they start to figure stuff out, how to get their selfish way.

And so far, you're just doing like others and bypassing my arguments, to just repeat yourself and your own personal reasons for believing them. Which here we see is based solely upon what you've seen, and not upon what can be believed and known for certain from the Bible.

(For we walk by faith, not by sight)

I wonder if you want to answer a question you people have never yet answered when asked. Do you hug your new baby and dress him or her in a crib and coo-coo to them about what little children of the devil they are? Why not, if it's the truth.

I call them God's little babies given to me and my wife. They are still the heritage of the Lord from the womb, even though they will no doubt sin and do wrong some time after that.

I can say of certain, as well as from the Bible, that raising them as God's baby gifts staves off their time to act like devils, and lessens their devilishness, unto they choose for themselves whom they will serve. The Lord Jesus Christ who make all creatures by and for His good pleasure, or the god of this world and false christ that says he makes all babes his children in the womb.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

All sin and righteousness is spiritual in nature, because it is the spirit of man made in God's image, that either lust to do evil or desire to do good with our bodies.

When Adam and Eve sinned, their spirit died ( the part of them that was pure and connected to God). Their bodies also started to die. Cells died that day, corruption and distortion entered into all life. Diseases, illnesses, bacteria and viruses began to emerge on that day. Mutations are defects, amd so the genetic code was distorted. Death came on that day, not the end of their lives, but their bodies were no longer perfect.

So if you are born with a dead spirit ( like a cell phone without a battery), you are blind and disconnected to God. But you do have a mind, will and emotions, and a fallen nature bent towards sin. Left to himself, man will do nothing but sinful things. Fortunately God does restrain evil, guides us and is merciful, choosing those whom He will save.

This scripture proves you wrong:

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.
(I guess you missed that one?)

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

We have a dual nature until we die and get rid of one if them.

Galatians 5:17. For the desires of the flesh are against the spirit, and the desires of the spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

 

[Ghada]

Calling me names does not bother me. In fact, I would be worried if they did not call me names. I reached out to you because I liked what you wrote about the sinless head and body. I went through a bunch of your posts and copied them and then put them all together and edited them down since many were you repeating stuff to others. I then sent it out to my friends. I then wanted to learn more about you so I started commenting on your stuff. We can now be done since we do not agree on who the Christ is.

You didn't just comment on my stuff, and I wish you would have, as well as making any sound corrections to it.

But instead you veered off into your Oneness proselytization program.

We know a Christian is in a separatist sect, by the fact that they can't refrain themselves from injecting their special little teaching, that separates them from the common faith and body of Christ. I know how it is, because I used to be one of the Pentecostal holiness sort. Of the trinitarian kind.

 

[Peterlag]

You didn't just comment on my stuff, and I wish you would have, as well as making any sound corrections to it.

But instead you veered off into your Oneness proselytization program.

We know a Christian is in a separatist sect, by the fact that they can't refrain themselves from injecting their special little teaching, that separates them from the common faith and body of Christ. I know how it is, because I used to be one of the Pentecostal holiness sort. Of the trinitarian kind.

I gave you everything I wrote on the sin nature. A few pages that is too much to post here and you did not care to look at it.

 

[Ghada]

When Adam and Eve sinned, their spirit died ( the part of them that was pure and connected to God). Their bodies also started to die.

Cells died that day, corruption and distortion entered into all life. Diseases, illnesses, bacteria and viruses began to emerge on that day. Mutations are defects, amd so the genetic code was distorted. Death came on that day, not the end of their lives, but their bodies were no longer perfect.

So if you are born with a dead spirit ( like a cell phone without a battery), you are blind and disconnected to God. But you do have a mind, will and emotions, and a fallen nature bent towards sin. Left to himself, man will do nothing but sinful things. Fortunately God does restrain evil, guides us and is merciful, choosing those whom He will save.

If you're not going to address any of my arguments and maybe even show some error in them, then I'm not going to participate in a one-sided dialogue with yourself

This scripture proves you wrong:

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.
(I guess you missed that one?)

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

We have a dual nature until we die and get rid of one if them.

Galatians 5:17. For the desires of the flesh are against the spirit, and the desires of the spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

Nor am I going to be led down an endless road of responding to more of your points to no purpose.

 

[Ghada]

I gave you everything I wrote on the sin nature. A few pages that is too much to post here and you did not care to look at it.

I went back in this thread just to make sure I didn't miss anything of yours. There is only post I missed before you veered off into your Oneness or created christ stuff.

At first I thought you were agreeing with the teaching that those in Christ Jesus cannot be lusting and sinning. Until I learned you were only speaking of the delusion, that those 'in Christ' are 'declared clean' and no longer condemned while still lusting and sinning.

So, at the first you had me fooled, and I thought I was agreeing with a fellow Christian saint in Christ Jesus. It's called the deception of words, that the devil employs to sound like the truth, only to turn it into a lie.

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;

This is how someone lies while sounding like the truth. They always leave out key words. Such as we cannot sin, nor are we sinning while in Christ Jesus...because are sinning is no longer condemned. Or as others like to say, Christ does not 'see' the sinning. Or, at least not like the sinning of unbelievers.

It's basically the false christ and unjust judge, that has respect of persons towards them 'in him' and them 'not in him'. He condemns the unbelievers sinning outside him, but not the believers sinning done in him.

It's all self-contradictory anyway. Because the christ and god of this world that does not condemn sinning, doesn't condemn it in anyone, including atheists that say there is no God nor god. In fact, he loves all men's sinning and applauds it in the face of the Lord.

The true Christ Jesus is the exact opposite. He condemns all sinning of angels and men without respect of persons. And those in Him not sinning in spirit nor flesh, are honored by Him before the Father.

1.) You can have all the sin you want while you walk in your old man dead flesh.
2.) But you have no sin when you walk in him. Because there's no sin in him.

I missed this post where you go off the deep end and state plainly what some other Christians teach, that there is no limit to sinning at all unto the grave, because they are 'already forgiven' and 'no more condemned'. It openly ministers more and more sinning to the believers.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

In the Bible repented sins and trespasses of the past are forgiven and we are no more condemned by God for those works which have done without God and the faith of Jesus Christ.

And that only remains so while continuing pure of heart and blameless in life. If we do sin after such a pure conversion in Christ Jesus, then we must repent and come to Jesus with godly sorrow to be forgiven and reconciled to God as an obedient son, and no more a bastardized sinner of the devil.

Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

The problem I have is I can't get anyone to see what I see when we walk in him. This is because our culture is embedded in the Catholic doctrine of what a sin nature is.

No, it's because I'm not embedded in your delusional imagination, while walking in your christ and after the flesh.

My Christ from the Bible does not have any disobedient members sinning spiritually nor bodily.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I'm only walking in your christ, if I repent of God's righteousness and return to my old sinning days.

 

[Peterlag]

I went back in this thread just to make sure I didn't miss anything of yours. There is only post I missed before you veered off into your Oneness or created christ stuff.

At first I thought you were agreeing with the teaching that those in Christ Jesus cannot be lusting and sinning. Until I learned you were only speaking of the delusion, that those 'in Christ' are 'declared clean' and no longer condemned while still lusting and sinning.

So, at the first you had me fooled, and I thought I was agreeing with a fellow Christian saint in Christ Jesus. It's called the deception of words, that the devil employs to sound like the truth, only to turn it into a lie.

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;

This is how someone lies while sounding like the truth. They always leave out key words. Such as we cannot sin, nor are we sinning while in Christ Jesus...because are sinning is no longer condemned. Or as others like to say, Christ does not 'see' the sinning. Or, at least not like the sinning of unbelievers.

It's basically the false christ and unjust judge, that has respect of persons towards them 'in him' and them 'not in him'. He condemns the unbelievers sinning outside him, but not the believers sinning done in him.

It's all self-contradictory anyway. Because the christ and god of this world that does not condemn sinning, doesn't condemn it in anyone, including atheists that say there is no God nor god. In fact, he loves all men's sinning and applauds it in the face of the Lord.

The true Christ Jesus is the exact opposite. He condemns all sinning of angels and men without respect of persons. And those in Him not sinning in spirit nor flesh, are honored by Him before the Father.


I missed this post where you go off the deep end and state plainly what some other Christians teach, that there is no limit to sinning at all unto the grave, because they are 'already forgiven' and 'no more condemned'. It openly ministers more and more sinning to the believers.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

In the Bible repented sins and trespasses of the past are forgiven and we are no more condemned by God for those works which have done without God and the faith of Jesus Christ.

And that only remains so while continuing pure of heart and blameless in life. If we do sin after such a pure conversion in Christ Jesus, then we must repent and come to Jesus with godly sorrow to be forgiven and reconciled to God as an obedient son, and no more a bastardized sinner of the devil.

Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:




No, it's because I'm not embedded in your delusional imagination, while walking in your christ and after the flesh.

My Christ from the Bible does not have any disobedient members sinning spiritually nor bodily.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I'm only walking in your christ, if I repent of God's righteousness and return to my old sinning days.

You think I left the subject matter when I started to comment on who the Christ is. But I did not. If we are going to walk in him then it seems logical that we should first understand who Christ is. We are not walking in God.