Using that logic would be like arguing that nothing in the OT is involving the thousand years since the book of Revelation was written after the OT was.
Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?
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Using that logic would be like arguing that nothing in the OT is involving the thousand years since the book of Revelation was written after the OT was.
Some have made a difference between trumpets of God and trumpets of angels.
Some have said the last trumpet is associated with the blowing of trumpets at the Jewish festivals.
Some have said it's the 7th trumpet presented in Revelation.
I have come to understood the rapture of the church is pre-tribulation....when Jesus returns when the economy is like the days of Noah and when Jesus returns NOT, NOT, NOT riding a white horse.
Jesus comes back for His bride and takes them to His Fathers house....which also fits in with the way those in Jesus' day carried out wedding celebrations.
The return is the departure of those gathered by Jesus when the restrainer is removed....which involves removing the church......as the church is not destined for wrath.
Apparently, you missed the point of the analogy. I'm not saying the OT explicitly mentions Revelation 20--1,000 years. The point is that chronological priority doesn't prove two passages are referring to different things. Revelation being written later doesn't prevent earlier Scripture from describing the same prophetic events that Revelation later clarifies or describes more explicitly. Something being revealed or explained more fully in a later book doesn't mean earlier Scripture couldn't already be referring to the same thing.
So, Paul wrote 1 Corinthians before John wrote Revelation doesn't, by itself, prove Paul's last trumpet is a different trumpet. If chronological priority proves Paul's trumpet is unrelated to John's, then by that same logic, virtually every later prophetic clarification would have to be unrelated to anything written previously. The question isn't who wrote first. The question is whether the texts are describing the same prophetic event or sequence.
If Paul says the last trumpet, last of what?
If you're saying Paul's last trumpet is completely unrelated to the trumpets in Revelation, then what series of trumpets is Paul referring to?
Last ordinarily implies a sequence. If there is a last trumpet, there should be preceding trumpets of the same series. So where are the first, second, third, etc.?
You can't establish that Paul's trumpet is a completely separate last trumpet simply by saying Paul wrote 1 Corinthians before John wrote Revelation. The chronological order of the books doesn't determine whether they are referring to the same prophetic sequence.
If Paul's trumpet is part of a distinct trumpet series, identify the series. What are the preceding trumpets, and where does Scripture describe them? If you can't identify them, then saying Paul's last trumpet is a different trumpet doesn't actually solve the problem---it just assumes the conclusion.
If you believe that the dead in Christ are presently in heaven with Jesus in a disembodied state, assuming soul sleep is not your position. You then see it making sense for Jesus to bring with Him the dead in Christ who are already in heaven with Him to begin with, to then do a U-turn moments later and take them back to where they already were in the first place?
I believe there are a series of trumpets in the Jewish feast of trumpets.
During a traditional Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) service, the trumpet (shofar) is sounded exactly 100 times.
Yes. After they are rejoined with their resurrected bodies and the christians just raptured.
Keep in mind your view has a similar U-turn where people are raptured, dead resurrected then they return to earth....missing the marriage supper of the Lamb.
Believers are already married to Jesus right now and should be eating at the marriage supper of the Lamb right now.
But let's be realistic here pertaining to which U-turn makes more sense. The Post trib U-turn means they rise up from the earth, put on bodily immortality, thus form the armies seen with Jesus in Rev 19, and they together with Jesus, the dead in Christ that rise first, plus those who were raptured in the earth below, continue their descent to the earth then confront the beast and it's armies below.
At least there is some logic to the Post trib U-turn, but where is there any logic in the Pretrib u-turn?
Notice something here. Per the Pretrib u-turn it is the dead in Christ doing a u-turn. Per the Post trib u-turn it is those being raptured doing the u-turn. But at least the latter accomplishes something logical via the u-turn, it allows them all to keep descending until they all confront the beast and it's armies below. You basically end up with a battle between Immortals and Mortals.
But what does the Pretrib u-turn logically accomplish?
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Jesus returns on a white horse, whether symbolic or literal. There is no other coming. Therapture happens just before he is seen in Rev 19.
for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. Obviously, before she makes herself ready she is not already ready. And that there is no marriage of the Lamb until the wife has made herself ready first. When are you saying the wife initally made herself ready?
Blend all the Apostle teachings together and mush is the result.
eg:-
How is a 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved believer HS sealed ? > Eph 1:13
How was a believer HS sealed B4 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?
List the verses & steps :)
The bride becomes ready when the old husband dies and she's free to marry another. See Romans 7:1–4.
A new man is formed in a believer at the new birth — and Jesus will not commit adultery to produce him. The old husband has to die first.
JimKnox
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quietthinker
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The Gospel is not an instruction book of 'how to's' Peter. If one turns it into an instruction book how to's one sets himself up for division and denominationalism.
When you look at the marriage details in the time of Jesus the following happened.
Here's a quick overview as if you look on line for this topic you can learn a lot more.
There is the endowment paid to the brides father....Jesus paid the ransom on the cross.
There is the engagement....the church begins.
The bridegroom goes back to his fathers house with out the bride and prepares a place to live. Jesus ascends into heaven and is preparing a place to live.
When the father is ready he sends the son for his bride....Jesus returns for the church at an unexpected moment.
The bridegroom and groomsmen return for the bride stopping at the edge of town... Christ returns and gets his bride. In the clouds
Then U-turns...
The groom take his bride to the fathers house....Christ returns with His bride to heaven.
The marriage feast occurs....the marriage supper of the Lamb.
The pre-trib U-turn actually follows a pattern.
Except it is not until the NJ descends out of heaven from God does the bride then begin living with the groom.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
When is a bride typically adorned for her husband? When this is initially true---for the marriage of the Groom is come, and his wife hath made herself ready?
Or much later, such as a thousand years later? Since Premils, such as yourself, typically take Revelation 21:2 to be meaning a thousand years plus a little season, plus a GWTJ, post that of when Revelation 19:7 is meaning.
We then end up with this scenario.
for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. But His wife is not adorned for Him until over a thousand years later.
Since you appear to be an expert on weddings, does that fit how a typical wedding goes down? for the marriage of the Groom is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. But it is much later when the wife adorns herself for her husband, that she does not do that when the marriage is come, and that the wife has made herself ready.
The reason I also brought up John 14:2-3 is simple. Look what the text says-- I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also
And that the ones He is talking to here would not be anyone that is raptured when He comes. They would all be long dead before that event occurs. Therefore, the ones He is talking to at the time would be the dead in Christ that rise first. But if they are already with Him, how do we make sense of the text that it is not until He comes again, that He then receives them unto Himself; that where He is, there they may be also?
Thus why I'm open minded that soul sleep could be Biblical though it currently is not my position. Plus, it seems obvious that the place He went to prepare is the NJ that comes down from God out of heaven(Revelation 21:2)
But let's not be logical about anything. Right? It's no fun when one is being logical about something since it tends to throw a monkey wrench into how we have been interpreting some of these things the entire time.
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