Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[GodsGrace]

What are the works of the thief on the cross and those on their death bed.

Some questions are too silly to require a response.
But bb will do as he pleases...

 

[GodsGrace]

SIN in a nutshell IS rebellion AGAINST GOD.
The key word is not SIN, but rather the key word is AGAINST God.

Everything hinges on;
Being AGAINST God
Or
Being WITH God

You wrote a lot, so I'll comment as I go along.
What you wrote above is spirituality in a nutshell.
We're either with God or against God. No inbetween.
Mathew 12:30

Because all men are naturally born, from a natural seed of a man who Rebelled AGAINST God, ta da, ALL men are naturally Born in sin AGAINST God.

AND, that living soul God gave us, which quickened our corrupt natural body into a living state....

Well, we are in sin, and everything we do, while NOT being WITH GOD....oops, affects our living soul being in our corrupt body.

What a blow eh? Bummer.
The WHOLE of Scripture is designed to teach men of their own generation HOW TO BE WITH God. I say "of their own generation"...
Because like our own little children; who begin knowing little; so also were the first men who inhabited the earth.

Very good.
God revealed Himself a little at a time. Almost as if we couldn't understand everything all at once. And, I believe, these end times are the mystery spoken of in Ephesians 3:5-6
Colossians 1:25-27
Christ Jesus, the Savior of all nations has finally been revealed.
And the Church, His bride.

So we look back, and observe the generations of men, having done with them exactly what we do with our young children.

RULES, RULES, RULES. It's a teaching method. God used it, parents use it. Teaching the "unknowing" for their benefit, AND well-being. And as the parent or (God), keeping an eye on those children who are being taught. Reign them in when they disobey, and stray and they learn and try things on their own.

And we don't tell them EVERYTHING at once, that they shall need to Function in a corrupt world. It's bit, by bit. As children grow and mature, we give them more knowledge, understanding, observe their responsibility, are pleased with them at time and displeased at other time....

It is the same with God and generations of men.

Parents can faulter, break a promise, lie, let things slide, be forgiving, be honorable, be trustworthy, or not.

God can only be truthful and faithful to His own Word. If He says it; it is. We do not have to wonder IF He is trustworthy.

Fully agree. Good analogy.

Thousands of years of rules/laws given to generations of men via God....hello.
Look at the generation of men today.
Instant knowledge available, travel, communication abounds, etc. etc....

Look at Gods Rules/Laws.
Began with ONE...Trust to Believe.
Ends with ONE...Trust to Believe.
And inbetween the beginning and these last days, were the rules/laws for beginners.
All the information and knowledge is now revealed. These are the last days.
Time for men to decide.
Choose thee this day...
With God or Against God...that simple.

And Gods Word? Gods Desire? The SAME.
Always the same from the beginning:
With Him or Against Him.
True Belief in Him or Against Him.

He is coming soon, to claim His Church, His People, and purify the earth, as He first cleansed the earth with water, He shall purify the earth with fire.

God Bless,
Taken

Great post.
Thanks.

 

[Taken]

You wrote a lot, so I'll comment as I go along.
What you wrote above is spirituality in a nutshell.
We're either with God or against God. No inbetween.
Mathew 12:30



Very good.
God revealed Himself a little at a time. Almost as if we couldn't understand everything all at once. And, I believe, these end times are the mystery spoken of in Ephesians 3:5-6
Colossians 1:25-27
Christ Jesus, the Savior of all nations has finally been revealed.
And the Church, His bride.


Fully agree. Good analogy.


Great post.
Thanks.

Thanks for adding in some appropriate scriptures. Appreciate that.
I post from my phone, and can't copy and paste in the scriptures.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

What are the works of the thief on the cross and those on their death bed.

well as to that i would say that you can apply those to yourself when you are either hanging on a cross or contemplating following Christ on your deathbed. Can't recall a Scriptural example of the second one, can you? anyone?

plus imo the thief on the cross is representative of only one type of person, or in another reflection half of a single person, so we need to reflect upon the other thief too if we are speaking about "everyone" generally. This "savior" between "two others" is a very ancient theme, i guess, not invented in the NT but borrowed.

 

[Heb 13:8]

well as to that i would say that you can apply those to yourself when you are either hanging on a cross or contemplating following Christ on your deathbed. Can't recall a Scriptural example of the second one, can you? anyone?

plus imo the thief on the cross is representative of only one type of person, or in another reflection half of a single person, so we need to reflect upon the other thief too if we are speaking about "everyone" generally. This "savior" between "two others" is a very ancient theme, i guess, not invented in the NT but borrowed.

.. or maybe the gospel msg is really simple and strait foward, believe john 3:16.

 

[bbyrd009]

.. or maybe the gospel msg is really simple and strait foward, believe john 3:16.

well, belief will get you one place, and faith will get you to another i guess; otherwise they would not have scribed out "faith" in that v, huh? I'm not much on belief myself, it seems to just generate candle-lighting bowers and scrapers, Nehushtan worshippers imo. "Believers" all seem to seek "the world of tomorrow," the party that is supposed to start when they die, seems to me

 

[Heb 13:8]

well, belief will get you one place, and faith will get you to another i guess. I'm not much on belief myself

it's teh same thing bbyrd

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

 

[Helen]

So, sin was imputed in a general way upon mankind, but not in a personal way. In the O.T. righteousness was achieved on an individual basis based on the deeds, be they righteous or evil.

Just thinking out loud...

Interesting post....I like that. ( Golly, so many different conversations going on in this thread...there should be more than one thread here !! Ha! )

Don't you find that people seem to get muddled up between sin and sins?

When I read threads I find people switch between the two...one moment they are talking about the root of sin which came via Adam...but the next moment they are really talking about "sins" = Missing the mark.
" Anything which is not of faith is sin".

It's easy to do..I have found myself doing this also!! Ha!
Maybe this is off topic and not belonging in this thread...

I saw Taken's response also...to me the mixture between sins, and sin is there too. Jesus delivered us from the curse of Adam's sin. He laid the axe to that root. We are not "in sin"...that was settled when we came to the Lord. Done.
1 John 1:7 " But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

Do we miss the mark? Fall short? therefore sin, yes, we know that. But we are not sinners. Sin has been dealt with once and for all.
On this Site I see people 'yipping on' about sin...but half the time they are talking about the imputed sin of Adam...yet somehow seem to think that that is still over problem. But that was "the old man" yet we are now in the new.
And we must at all times stay very aware of that, so that we are found in the over-comers and stop "missing the mark" on the stuff which trips us up!

Sorry, I got rambling here ...I tend to do that. :)

 

[Heb 13:8]

well, belief will get you one place, and faith will get you to another i guess; otherwise they would not have scribed out "faith" in that v, huh? I'm not much on belief myself, it seems to just generate candle-lighting bowers and scrapers, Nehushtan worshippers imo. "Believers" all seem to seek "the world of tomorrow," the party that is supposed to start when they die, seems to me

1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

 

[Helen]

ell as to that i would say that you can apply those to yourself when you are either hanging on a cross or contemplating following Christ on your deathbed. Can't recall a Scriptural example of the second one, can you? anyone?

Hey there...long time no talk. :)
I can't think of a specific scripture either.
But we do know that saved is saved. ( some of us know that anyway! lol)
But it does give weight to John 6:29 which you never seem to like for some reason.
Jesus followers just asked Him.."what should we do to work the works of God." And then it says :- “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom he hath sent.”
Nothing complicated there. That is all it takes...on the cross, or on the death bed. They sure don't have time to go out and commit any sins of missing the mark.
I am still mulling over in my heart about Jesus dying once and for all..
So as I look at that, all men have been removed from the sin of Adam..so all are free, everyone!!
In that case what is left are "sin's" , as I was just saying to Fran/GodsGrace.
In God we are no longer sinners , as in Adam...but we do fall short=sin , for sure.
Which brings us back to your favourite subject , the repentant heart. And then continuing on in good loving works, because we see what Jesus did on the cross re Adam's sin , and we are thankful.

I am just in a rambling mood and thinking on so much lately. :)

 

[GodsGrace]

well as to that i would say that you can apply those to yourself when you are either hanging on a cross or contemplating following Christ on your deathbed. Can't recall a Scriptural example of the second one, can you? anyone?

plus imo the thief on the cross is representative of only one type of person, or in another reflection half of a single person, so we need to reflect upon the other thief too if we are speaking about "everyone" generally. This "savior" between "two others" is a very ancient theme, i guess, not invented in the NT but borrowed.

Christ in our deathbed...
There is never any condition set to be saved as regards a time frame.
If one is honest, he can be saved even on his deathbed.
Scripture for this would be Mathew 20:1-16
The parable of the laborers.

As long as we remember that God cannot be mocked.

 

[Taken]

well as to that i would say that you can apply those to yourself when you are either hanging on a cross or contemplating following Christ on your deathbed. Can't recall a Scriptural example of the second one, can you? anyone?

WORK, is simply Doing a Service.

Men can DO a Service in the Carnal sense. Which is specifically Doing a service for MAN, himself or another man.

Men can Also DO a Service in the Spiritual sense.
Which is specifically Doing a Pleasing service for GOD.

IF a man is NOT "with" God; Nothing the man does, (even using Jesus' Name), IS a Pleasing service for God.

IF a man IS "with" God; the man "CAN" do works that "ARE" Pleasing to GOD, and God shall rewards such WORKS.

IOW - WITHOUT the Spirit of God, a man's works for God are MOOT.

A man WHO, chooses to CONFESS, and GIVE God (authority, right, the mans YES to Convert the man), that conversion BECOMES;

A mans FIRST, and MOST REASONABLE WORK (ie service) unto God....IS

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren,
BY the mercies of God,
THAT ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy,
ACCEPTABLE unto God,
WHICH IS your reasonable SERVICE.

The thief hanging next to Jesus, DID
ONE thing and said nine words.

ONE - called on the Lord
Nine words -
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.

The thief, became forgiven, and saved;
And that day his body was buried, like Jesus'; and his living soul was in Paradise with Jesus' living soul.
Which "WAS" in the comfort side of hell, with Abraham's living soul (an all the other men's living soul's who were saved) sustained by the TREE of LIFE.

The thief, was converted, satisfactory to God; to be INCLUDED in Gods Kingdom.

Now shall that thief receive great rewards for doing a lifetime of works/service unto the Lord? No

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

well, belief will get you one place, and faith will get you to another i guess; otherwise they would not have scribed out "faith" in that v, huh? I'm not much on belief myself, it seems to just generate candle-lighting bowers and scrapers, Nehushtan worshippers imo. "Believers" all seem to seek "the world of tomorrow," the party that is supposed to start when they die, seems to me

Belief, is an odd word, when we have internally;
Belief in our minds
And
Belief in our hearts.

A thought in the mind, can be tricky, conniving, deceiving.
A thought in the heart, is simply what you truly know to be true.

Man in his beginning of hearing about God, about Christ, doesn't know if it is true or not.
Thus the thoughts, what a man hears, about something he can not see, is knowledge being received into his mind, and he thinks about if he believes it OR NOT.

Everyday for 3 years, Jesus was giving his disciples knowledge and information.
The disciples were soaking up that knowledge into their minds....sometimes believing, sometimes doubts, mummering amongst themselves, trying to figure IF it was true or not.

One day the man can say....I believe!...and the next day say....I doubt...I deny...!
So IS that man a "believer"?
Sure, depending on which day you hear him.

The mystery IS; every time a man IS HEARING the WORD of GOD (or like now available to READ); The Lord Himself IS giving that man......FAITH!

You may have heard the phrase;
"There is Power in the Word"
There is; And there are many fractions of HOW that Power of God "enables a man".
(Such as saying now; Gives the man Faith.
Also gives the man power to speak on behalf of God.
Also gives the man power over unclean spirits.
Also gives the man power to declare righteous things, healing, etc.)

(Scripture says it more concise; with the magnitude; ie power to move mountains)

As the man is becoming STEEPED in the Word;
The Lord is filling His "HEARTS THOUGHTS" with Spiritual Faith.

When the man recognizes the FAITH in his own heart...he is prepared to CALL ON THE LORDS NAME to confess Heartfelt belief.

IOW - Men can Mindfully and easily believe what they CAN SEE. The mind can believe in men, cars, houses, the sky, etc.
Men can carnally also have faith because faith is a SURE belief.

But men can ONLY first Hear about God, and keep hearing.....TO believe AND receive Faith from God to Keep believing.....WHAT THEY CAN NOT SEE.

IOW - men on their own, CAN NOT FAITH in God without God giving the man faith.

And God Gives faith AS the man is Hearing, (reading).

A man can NOT KEEP believing WITHOUT Faith.

And a man CANNOT commit TO God without Faith.

IOW- man is nothing, do nothing to please God, WITHOUT Gods hand in the mix.

A man who doesn't hear, who rejects hearing, who doesn't read, who ignores and rejects, has no consideration of thought toward or about God/Chirst....does not receive faith from God; nor His great internal changes.

And personally, my preference about calling one a believer;
A believer....ie still uncommitted, and can stop believing at any time.
A born again believer....ie forever faithful and committed to God, By His Power.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Christ in our deathbed...
There is never any condition set to be saved as regards a time frame.

The only condition is: One must be alive in their own bodily life, (blood) to become saved.

That may have been an obvious intent in your comment....

But just clarifying; because some ARE teaching, those condemned to hell are also saved. That requires a more lengthy post, but just wanted to mention;
Time frame for a man is while his life (blood) is still functioning alive.

On the death-bed, at deaths door, absolutely a man can call on the Lord and become saved AND born again.

If one is honest, he can be saved even on his deathbed.

Yes.

Scripture for this would be Mathew 20:1-16
The parable of the laborers.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Because of contradiction. The title of 1 John 2:18-27 is "Warnings Against Denying the Son". The promised Holy Spirit will never leave a believer, and a believer will never deny the Son because the Holy Spirit never leaves them.

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 John 2:25 And this is what he promised us--eternal life.

1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

First of all - there are no "Titles" in Scripture regarding paragraphs. this was inserted by whomever worked on that particular translation.
You wouldn't even have Chapter and Verse, had it not been inserted by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, let alone titles . . .

As to the verses regarding eternal life - there are irrelevant if you have walked away from God.
Eternal life is something you'd have to get back by returning to faith again and enduring to the END.

I am confident that I have eternal life - but as Paul says:
1 Cor. 4:4
"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me."

 

[BreadOfLife]

Perseverance from trouble, hardship, persecution, famine, nakedness, danger or sword or even DEATH and FUTURE?

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Amen.

NOTHING and NOBODY can separate me from God.
The ONLY one who can do that is MYSELF . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

 

[BreadOfLife]

(1.) Spiritual water, not sink water. John 7:38

In John 3:5, Jesus tells Nicodemus that we must be born again of WATER and Spirit to enter Heaven.

TWO chapters earlier, we read about the Baptism of Jesus - and what do we see??
Spirit and WATER - you know - the wet kind . . .

AFTER Jesus ;leaves Nicodemus, where does He go?? He goes a'Baptizin' with the Apostles.
Guess what they use?? They use WATER. You know - the wet kind . . .

(2.) 2 Thess 2:3 falling away is rapture. The restrainer is the Holy Spirit living in believers.

2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (rapture) FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thess 2:7-8 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8AND THEN the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

(3). Enduring to the end is martyrdom in the 70th week, (Matt 24:12 agape love are for believers only). Nonbelievers will all have the mark of the beast (Rev 13). Thankfully, the church will be gone.

NOWHERE do the Scriptures tell us that the Church will be pulled out of the world prior to the time of Tribulation.
That's just wishful thinking by those who don't want to suffer.

The Early Church suffered GREATLY. They were crucified, beheaded, fed alive to wild animals, burned alive, etc.
Those at the END of time will be lifted into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:17) - NOT before.

I thought you said you're catholic and worship the pope?

And it's this kind of stupid, brainless remark that feeds the evil of anti-Catholicism . . .

 

[Taken]

Amen.

NOTHING and NOBODY can separate me from God.

True.

The ONLY one who can do that is MYSELF . . .

False. A man submitted unto God, is Kept by the Power of God forever.

1 Cor. 9:27

"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

1 Cor 9:27
But I "KEEP UNDER" my body
AND bring it (my body) INTO Subjection:
Lest by any means,

WHEN I have preached to OTHERS,
I MYSELF should be a castaway.

Paul is speaking about his own bodily behaviors (hello, that OTHERS can SEE).
Paul is speaking of KEEPING his own bodily behavior IN SUBJECTION to a good behavior;
THAT OTHERS CAN SEE;
THAT if he is preaching and then ACTING in opposition to his preaching OTHERS HEARING, may CAST HIM AWAY, and NOT LISTEN TO HIM PREACHING the Gospel of Christ.

Paul doesn't WANT to lose listeners to his preaching the Gospel of Christ....
Thus he is teaching; if one is going to Preach; Keep your bodily behavior in subjection to what you ARE Preaching; or you chance YOUR LISTENERS casting you away.

Jesus admonished the Pharisees for their own bodily behaviors.
Paul was a Pharisee and learned this lesson From Jesus, and now repeats the lesson.

Some preachers today, stand in the pulpit and preach, then are found to be bodily obscene.
The preachers Listeners (congregation) casts him away. They fire him, or leave that church. (Unless perhaps if they are Catholic, and how they deal with such, is different).

This has nothing to do with the Lord who HAS saved a man; Casting the man away.

 

[bbyrd009]

it's teh same thing bbyrd

to you it might be, to me it is not wadr. Faith is singular, beliefs can be plural, and there are other differences, despite that they share a synonym. The point being that faith can be counterfeited too, as Nehushtan worship illuminates. So if you gave me your understanding of Nehushtan worship, and why the priest broke Nehushtan up, we might come together here, as i agree that many who currently have some belief might also have faith; but we can tell by how (or if) they determine truth, whether their faith depends upon their beliefs, or not.

you can note that those whose faith depends upon their beliefs cannot question their beliefs, and they will (usually proudly) make deterministic statements equating their belief to truth, and other fruit that can be tasted

 

[bbyrd009]

Hey there...long time no talk. :)
I can't think of a specific scripture either.

bc there isn't one, the thief on the cross is generally misinterpreted for this concept imo, when the thief reps something else anyway.