Is it possible? ? ?

[Helen]

In a post I just read @Philip James said :-

I fine way to resist the devil is to tell him that even he can be forgivin if he but bows to the man Jesus.
He never will so he always runs....

Pax!

It obviously made me smile....but then I thought...well is that at all possible?
If he repented could he be saved?

My first thought is...As the blood of Jesus was shed for mankind...then it is not possible.
Yet as he 'fell' before the Garden then he is probably under some other law between himself and God.

I post this only because I had not considered it before, and it made me think.

I would just like the "wise ones" to say what they believe.

@Heb 13:8 , @ScottA @lforrest , @amadeus , @Hidden In Him , @epostle1 , @Willie T @bbyrd009 @BreadOfLife @APAK @FHII , @Triumph1300 and the wisest of all @Rollo Tamasi and anyone I have forgotten to tag here....I just forget the usernames they use....and all the ladies too obviously...
..and anyone else who has an opinion...because I don't believe, or cannot recall any actual scripture concerning him.

@Philip James I hope you don't mind me highjacking your post for this...
It may not go anywhere... some threads do, some don't.
Usually we just toss out random ideas ...but this did cause me to take pause and think about it.

..........Helen

 

[lforrest]

I have wondered about this myself, but not for Satan but perhaps other fallen Angels. Suppose some have been keeping a low profile all these eons for fear of God. Suppose all humans through history found no fault with them personally.

I doubt even then would they be forgiven, because no way was made for them. Humans have to die and be resurrected with Jesus to be forgiven. But those who can not die can not be redeemed.

I also remember there was some part of the Apocrypha saying they would never be forgiven.

 

[Mjh29]

Here is the problem; Satan is not human. Jesus the MAN died for the Sins of men. Only mankind was made in the image of God; which is why Jesus had to be God-man, not God-angel. We, as mankind have Jesus redemptive act accredited to our account; angels have no such act to redeem them.

 

[ScottA]

Just as the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, so too was Satan condemned before the world began and the plan of redemption for the lost. So, no, Satan's fate is sealed.

Also, it is not the fallen who are raised up (saved) and whose fate is "once to die", but rather those who are born again of the spirit of God. But this comes in that moment of decision, which for Satan, again, was before the foundation of the world and sealed. It was also in the spirit, and therefore final.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It obviously made me smile....but then I thought...well is that at all possible?
If he repented could he be saved?

Nope, LoL.

For starters, ByGrace, I think I just realized why not everyone showed up when we tagged them all for the derisive thread. Apparently the tags don't result in an alert. I only stumbled on this thread by accident.

But about Satan, he sinned willfully, knowing who God was and being intimate with Him, yet rejected Him anyway. Doesn't set well with the Almighty, LoL. You and I sin by getting seduced into vices and temptations, which is a different thing. Even if before getting saved we defame Jesus for not knowing He was in fact the Son of God, we will be forgiven. But blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin because the person doing so knows they are blaspheming God, and vilifying Him. This He will not tolerate. Questioning His authority is not something He can condone. It threatens the tranquility of the coming kingdom, which must and will be a perfect kingdom, where Christ's reign is never questioned nor ridiculed, but He is respected, revered and loved by all as the Savior of mankind.

 

[Helen]

Here is the problem; Satan is not human. Jesus the MAN died for the Sins of men. Only mankind was made in the image of God; which is why Jesus had to be God-man, not God-angel. We, as mankind have Jesus redemptive act accredited to our account; angels have no such act to redeem them.

very good thoughts...I had never thought of the "man died for man" line..it makes good spiritual sense.

 

[lforrest]

Not to play devil's advocate (pun intended), why would we be judging angels if they are already found guilty?
1 Corinthians 6:3

 

[Helen]

I have wondered about this myself, but not for Satan but perhaps other fallen Angels. Suppose some have been keeping a low profile all these eons for fear of God. Suppose all humans through history found no fault with them personally.

I doubt even then would they be forgiven, because no way was made for them. Humans have to die and be resurrected with Jesus to be forgiven. But those who can not die can not be redeemed.

I also remember there was some part of the Apocrypha saying they would never be forgiven.

You said:- "But those who can not die can not be redeemed. "

That is why I wondered what law the heavenly bodies come under. Satan was not under our law when he fell...nevertheless God judged him...

When it says in 1 Cor 6:3
" Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"
I wonder what authority mankind has to judge angels, maybe this was one of the things that Paul was allowed to share after he was " caught up" to the third heaven. He obviously knew something that others didn't know about man = judging angels ! Kind of blow our mind when we think on it!

I presume that these are the fallen angels that you were speaking about.

Food for thought....

 

[Helen]

Just as the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, so too was Satan condemned before the world began....

I had not thought of that...I guess so...
Another thought I have had is ..If his job description is to be the Accuser, the Tempter, the Adversary....he has been as it were a "faithful tool" therefore done his job well. ...and I am sure you can see where my mind is going from there....? ? ?

Thanks for your post Scott.

 

[Helen]

Not to play devil's advocate (pun intended), why would we be judging angels if they are already found guilty?
1 Corinthians 6:3

Wow...some good thoughts here... That is another good one...
If as @ScottA said ( and it sounds good)... that it was all 'done and dusted before the foundation of the world'...Yes,good question, Why indeed will man have to judge angels all over again, if indeed judgement has already been pronounced?!

( scratching chin and musing..)

 

[Helen]

For starters, ByGrace, I think I just realized why not everyone showed up when we tagged them all for the derisive thread. Apparently the tags don't result in an alert. I only stumbled on this thread by accident.

Thanks Chris. Did not know that.

So...just of interest...did all of you who posted see the tags I put into the OP in your ALERTS ?
Or did you like Hidden In Him...just stumble onto the thread by accident?

I just presumed a tag always gave an Alert!!

 

[Helen]

About Satan, he sinned willfully, knowing who God was and being intimate with Him, yet rejected Him anyway. Doesn't set well with the Almighty, LoL.
You and I sin by getting seduced into vices and temptations, which is a different thing. Even if before getting saved we defame Jesus for not knowing He was in fact the Son of God, we will be forgiven. But blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin because the person doing so knows they are blaspheming God, and vilifying Him. This He will not tolerate. Questioning His authority is not something He can condone.
It threatens the tranquility of the coming kingdom, which must and will be a perfect kingdom, where Christ's reign is never questioned nor ridiculed, but He is respected, revered and loved by all as the Savior of mankind.

Thank you...more good thoughts.

I hadn't thought of his knowing God at close quarters ...and then choosing mutiny ...TREASON!! That does throw a different light on it all.
So, after all , he is already done and dusted.

I do know that we also have on this Site some who do not see Satan as an individual identity. But maybe they wont wish to throw that curve into things.

I also heard someone once say that Satan "in our Garden" is speaking of our carnal mind which is God's enemy. But I could never put all the pieces together on that one...like any jigsaw, I had too many bit left over that wouldn't fit in.


( somewhat like my husband, been married 57 years, and I have never seen him build anything that we have bought which needs assembling ..and then using every bit that is in the box...be it some cap, nut , screw or bolt.. I count all the bits that the assembly manual says that is in the box and needed...but always he has "bits over."..!! I often feel like that about subjects like this )

 

[Philip James]

While youre pondering that.. Consider.. Why was there war in heaven?

I submit that war occured because Lucifer refused to bow to the man Jesus, when He sat upon the throne...

Peace!

 

[amadeus]

@"ByGrace"

fine way to resist the devil is to tell him that even he can be forgivin if he but bows to the man Jesus.
He never will so he always runs

...

In my case, since I seriously doubt the existence of a separate entity called "satan", I would simply say that we, the real culprits, the real sinners, the real instigators of the disobedience to God are the ones who need to bow before God. But if we never do so... if we always run away along our own pathway, what should we expect from Him. [Note that I won't respond to anyone on this thread wanting to discuss with me who satan is or in not so as not derail the thread.]

 

[Helen]

@"ByGrace"

In my case, since I seriously doubt the existence of a separate entity called "satan", I would simply say that we, the real culprits, the real sinners, the real instigators of the disobedience to God are the ones who need to bow before God. But if we never do so... if we always run away along our own pathway, what should we expect from Him. [Note that I won't respond to anyone on this thread wanting to discuss with me who satan is or in not so as not derail the thread.]

Hey John..no worries. You are free to discuss or not...if you are asked ...it's your call brother, I already mentioned this in my post #12...so it would/wil not be derailing anything here.

I heard more from Preston Eby than yourself on this subject.
But like I say, I couldn't make everything fit neatly. LOL

 

[Hidden In Him]

I also heard someone once say that Satan "in our Garden" is speaking of our carnal mind which is God's enemy. But I could never put all the pieces together on that one...like any jigsaw, I had too many bit left over that wouldn't fit in.


( somewhat like my husband, been married 57 years, and I have never seen him build anything that we have bought which needs assembling ..and then using every bit that is in the box...be it some cap, nut , screw or bolt.. I count all the bits that the assembly manual says that is in the box and needed...but always he has "bits over."..!! I often feel like that about subjects like this )

LoL. Hey, where's the fun in always going by the rules? Life is like Mr. Potato Head. Make of it what you will.

About the "garden" thing, totally spiritualized. That is ok as long as they also honor the literal understanding of the passage, that Satan manifested himself visibly in the form of a serpent and spoke to Eve to deceive her. But those who dismiss the literal and try to replace it with only the spiritualized teach false doctrine, and turn the historical context of scripture into a myth.

 

[Nancy]

In a post I just read @Philip James said :-


It obviously made me smile....but then I thought...well is that at all possible?
If he repented could he be saved?

My first thought is...As the blood of Jesus was shed for mankind...then it is not possible.
Yet as he 'fell' before the Garden then he is probably under some other law between himself and God.

I post this only because I had not considered it before, and it made me think.

I would just like the "wise ones" to say what they believe.

@Heb 13:8 , @ScottA @lforrest , @amadeus , @Hidden In Him , @epostle1 , @Willie T @bbyrd009 @BreadOfLife @APAK @FHII , @Triumph1300 and the wisest of all @Rollo Tamasi and anyone I have forgotten to tag here....I just forget the usernames they use....and all the ladies too obviously...
..and anyone else who has an opinion...because I don't believe, or cannot recall any actual scripture concerning him.

@Philip James I hope you don't mind me highjacking your post for this...
It may not go anywhere... some threads do, some don't.
Usually we just toss out random ideas ...but this did cause me to take pause and think about it.

..........Helen

Yes, good thought. My take would agree with something you suggested above and that is that Christ died for Human redemption, not the angels. JMO

 

[brakelite]

We know the character and nature of God exudes mercy and grace. I think we can safely assume that before Satan and his angels were thrown out, they were all given the opportunity to repent but refused.
That Satan then continued his rebellion on earth somewhat confirms his hardness of heart.

 

[Mayflower]

I guess since we know that Satan is thrown in the Lake of Fire, he never has repented nor ever will if he had a chance.

It is an interesting question though, if it even can cross his mind now. I doubt so, since he still acts as a stumbling block to everyone. Do you know in Exodus where it talks about how God hardened pharaoh's heart? What does this mean, and do you think the devil is the same way?

But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the children of Israel go.
Exodus 10:20 NKJV

 

[Enoch111]

If he [the devil] repented could he be saved?

1. Salvation is strictly for human beings, hence Christ became the God-Man and shed His blood for our redemption.

2. Since angels were already given a very exalted position in Heaven, with supernatural capabilities and physical strength well beyond human beings, not a single angel had any excuse to rebel against God.

3. Angels were created to be "ministering spirits". Spirit beings who would primarily serve God and Christ, and secondarily serve the saints. On the other hand mankind was created in the image and likeness of God in order to have fellowship with God and Christ.

4. God already saw (in His divine foreknowledge) that once any angel rebelled, there would be no repentance and no forgiveness from God. Therefore Hell (the Lake of Fire) -- which is not occupied as yet -- was created for the devil and his angels.

5. Satan has already been designated as the Adversary (Heb ha Satan) which means that he will remain the primary Adversary of God and mankind until he is cast into the Lake of Fire.

6. The angels who corrupted mankind before the Flood (termed "the angels which kept not their first estate") have been chained in Tartarus ever since the Flood, and will remain there until they too are cast into the Lake of Fire [along with all the evil angels, the Beast (the Antichrist), and the False Prophet].

In brief, the redemption of angels is a non-issue.