The Rapture Lie

[rockytopva]

The rapture lie will be a lie.... Until it happens!

 

[CoreIssue]

Thank you for informing us of your expert knowledge.

Could you give us some specific examples of who any of the writers were and the scripts/writings they used?

Thanks,
God Bless,
Taken

What is the Textus Receptus?

KJV and the Textus Receptus

 

[Naomi25]

Nancy, are you aware that Paul clarified the timing of the rapture (as follows)?

1 Corinthians 15:23
But each one in his own order...

The last trump comes to us each individually.

The semantic difference between that of mass event vs. collective event is one thing, and rather silly. But your translation leaves a few important words out:

1 Corinthians 15:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

...Here, Paul gives both sides of the equation, that from those looking on from the world timeline, and also from God's eternal and timeless perspective.

You speak of semantics, but I wonder if you are stretching things a bit yourself. Sure, we know time and perspective works differently for God, who is outside of time, but he also created it and is master of it, so accurate perception of it shouldn't be an issue for him. So when we come to a passage like this, should we really take a step back and say "this passage is discussing the difference between us and God when it comes to the perception of this thing". Is that what the author really intended here? What is the context of the passage? Is it his intent to show us how God regards time, or how he regards these events occuring in time? Not really. His intent is to reassure his readers of the resurrection in general. That those who have already 'fallen asleep' will not miss out, and that it is a necessary thing for the body to be made anew. How does he do this? Well, he tells us that Christ has shown us the way. As "first fruits" we have an example in him...Christ died and was buried (just as a seed is), and was raised from the dead as something new and glorious.

For most Christians, that is how it will go. We will die, and go to be with our Lord, waiting for that day when our bodies are made anew: For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. -1 Corinthians 15:22–23

But what about those Christians alive at the time of Christ's return? The bible very clearly teaches that "not all will sleep". Paul goes on to say this:

Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. -1 Corinthians 15:51–52

And in Thessalonians he says:

For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. -1 Thessalonians 4:15

An event is clearly coming, at the return of Christ, when many Christians will experience what we could call a 'death to life' moment; a putting on of the imperishable, rather than this perishable form. It doesn't really matter how it is viewed, time wise, from heaven, or here from earth. The bible rather clearly spells it out.

 

[CoreIssue]

You speak of semantics, but I wonder if you are stretching things a bit yourself. Sure, we know time and perspective works differently for God, who is outside of time, but he also created it and is master of it, so accurate perception of it shouldn't be an issue for him. So when we come to a passage like this, should we really take a step back and say "this passage is discussing the difference between us and God when it comes to the perception of this thing". Is that what the author really intended here? What is the context of the passage? Is it his intent to show us how God regards time, or how he regards these events occuring in time? Not really. His intent is to reassure his readers of the resurrection in general. That those who have already 'fallen asleep' will not miss out, and that it is a necessary thing for the body to be made anew. How does he do this? Well, he tells us that Christ has shown us the way. As "first fruits" we have an example in him...Christ died and was buried (just as a seed is), and was raised from the dead as something new and glorious.

For most Christians, that is how it will go. We will die, and go to be with our Lord, waiting for that day when our bodies are made anew: For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. -1 Corinthians 15:22–23

But what about those Christians alive at the time of Christ's return? The bible very clearly teaches that "not all will sleep". Paul goes on to say this:

Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. -1 Corinthians 15:51–52

And in Thessalonians he says:

For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. -1 Thessalonians 4:15

An event is clearly coming, at the return of Christ, when many Christians will experience what we could call a 'death to life' moment; a putting on of the imperishable, rather than this perishable form. It doesn't really matter how it is viewed, time wise, from heaven, or here from earth. The bible rather clearly spells it out.

1 Corinthians 15:23 New International Version (NIV)
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Good old King James Archaic English again.

Christ at his resurrection then at the rapture the saints. All of them at one time.

 

[Naomi25]

1 Corinthians 15:23 New International Version (NIV)
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Good old King James Archaic English again.

Christ at his resurrection then at the rapture the saints. All of them at one time.

Yes, well. I don't really want to dip my toe into the conversation about the KJV, beyond saying that I don't favour it. I think that any faithful rendition of the manuscripts will lead you to the same place:

1 Corinthians 15:22–23

[22] For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. [23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. (ESV)

I prefer the ESV, as it falls under the 'formal equivalence' branch of translations...basically striving for a word for word approch...it attempts to translate the Bible as literally as possible, keeping the sentence structure and idioms intact if possible.
But that's just my preference. I think many of the different translations are still faithful, and will, with proper exegesis, lead us to the right understanding of a passage, including the one above. I agree...it clearly talks of a time, upon Christ's second advent, where Christians will basically, 'cheat death'. Call it what you may, but it's going to be a fairly big, stunning event!

 

[Taken]

What is the Textus Receptus?

KJV and the Textus Receptus

I was not asking you for suggestions for me to research.
You made it clear, you were well studied, and I asked you for a simple response, since you indicated the KJV was merely akin to a spin off of all things Catholic.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

You speak of semantics, but I wonder if you are stretching things a bit yourself. Sure, we know time and perspective works differently for God, who is outside of time, but he also created it and is master of it, so accurate perception of it shouldn't be an issue for him. So when we come to a passage like this, should we really take a step back and say "this passage is discussing the difference between us and God when it comes to the perception of this thing". Is that what the author really intended here? What is the context of the passage? Is it his intent to show us how God regards time, or how he regards these events occuring in time? Not really. His intent is to reassure his readers of the resurrection in general. That those who have already 'fallen asleep' will not miss out, and that it is a necessary thing for the body to be made anew. How does he do this? Well, he tells us that Christ has shown us the way. As "first fruits" we have an example in him...Christ died and was buried (just as a seed is), and was raised from the dead as something new and glorious.

For most Christians, that is how it will go. We will die, and go to be with our Lord, waiting for that day when our bodies are made anew: For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. -1 Corinthians 15:22–23

But what about those Christians alive at the time of Christ's return? The bible very clearly teaches that "not all will sleep". Paul goes on to say this:

Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. -1 Corinthians 15:51–52

And in Thessalonians he says:

For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. -1 Thessalonians 4:15

An event is clearly coming, at the return of Christ, when many Christians will experience what we could call a 'death to life' moment; a putting on of the imperishable, rather than this perishable form. It doesn't really matter how it is viewed, time wise, from heaven, or here from earth. The bible rather clearly spells it out.

This is indeed all clearly spelled out, just not clearly understood...by most.

It does not appear that you have reconciled just how Paul's claim that we come "each in his own order" with his claim "in a moment" "all shall be changed."

How can you quote both, but only consider the latter as true as you stated in your conclusion?

...I have given the answer, but here after quoting both passages, you have gone back to just the one passage which cannot reconcile with the other passage the way you have interpreted it. Yet both passages from Paul are true, and absolutely must be reconciled.

The only way that we can possibly enter into eternal life "each in his own order", and at the same time "all" "in a moment"...is if we [leave] the world [individually] "each in his own order", but [arrive together] "all" "in a moment." The one passage is not true and the other false. But rather, they are both true, but the one is from the perspective of the world, and the other is from God eternal perspective. The different in perspective then...is time. There is no other way to reconcile the two passages without having Paul contradict himself, or calling him a liar.

But time is not forever. No, it is "passing away." And God has not mastered it exactly...He allowed Satan to rule it for a time, after which Christ has overcome it. "Then comes the end."

 

[Naomi25]

This is indeed all clearly spelled out, just not clearly understood...by most.

It does not appear that you have reconciled just how Paul's claim that we come "each in his own order" with his claim "in a moment" "all shall be changed."

How can you quote both, but only consider the latter as true as you stated in your conclusion?

Because the weight of the text permits, primarily, a first, then a second action. "First Christ" as firstfruits, "then us" at his coming. First, second. The first one we clearly know happened when Jesus arose from the grave and then ascended into heaven. The second we are told when it happens..."at his coming".
It appears to me that you add an expectation to the text that is not there when you try and imply that "each in their own order" actually means "millions of people at their own timing as they die". The text does not explicitly state this, so it is only an assumption on your part. An assumption that I don't believe the text can carry.

...I have given the answer, but here after quoting both passages, you have gone back to just the one passage which cannot reconcile with the other passage the way you have interpreted it. Yet both passages from Paul are true, and absolutely must be reconciled.

The only way that we can possibly enter into eternal life "each in his own order", and at the same time "all" "in a moment"...is if we [leave] the world [individually] "each in his own order", but [arrive together] "all" "in a moment." The one passage is not true and the other false. But rather, they are both true, but the one is from the perspective of the world, and the other is from God eternal perspective. The different in perspective then...is time. There is no other way to reconcile the two passages without having Paul contradict himself, or calling him a liar.

But time is not forever. No, it is "passing away." And God has not mastered it exactly...He allowed Satan to rule it for a time, after which Christ has overcome it. "Then comes the end."

Again, you are making wild assumptions based on your desired opinion...not on what the text actually says. It says Christ first, then the rest of us at his coming. Rather than trying to do somersaults with the perspectives of timing, should we not consider other biblical verses that speak to this matter? How about when Paul, in Phillipians 1:23, he tells us that as soon as we die, we are with Christ; something that is backed up by what Christ tells the thief on the cross beside him. If we know from 1 Cor 15:51-52 that ALL believers, both those alive at the time of Christ's return, and those who have been dead 'in him', recieve their new, imperishable bodies at the time of his return, we can see that what is "with the Lord" after we die, is but our soul...our "heavenly dwelling" (1 Cor 5:1-5).
All this to say...There is no bizare time anomaly here that sees people "on our side" being given their imperishable bodies as they die, while all arriving at the same time "on the other side". There is simply no way we can stretch things that far to even suggest this. Rather, the natural reading of this, and corresponding texts, is that Christ is the first example of what will, at some later point, will happen to us all. All the souls in heaven, and the remaining Christians on earth...at Christ's return, we shall be like him.

 

[mjrhealth]

Not sure what point you are trying to make.

The point of Luke 22:42 is, what is IN the CUP.

What is IN the CUP, is "indignation".

The point IS, every man WHO, chooses to become Converted, IN CHRIST, "will suffer" "indignation" FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD WHO IS NOT CONVERTED".

Jesus KNEW He was GOING TO BE, unjustly beaten, tried, spit on, called names, stipped naked, and nailed to a cross and hang there in agony until his body died, while "some" others looked on in "sorrow".

Jesus was NOT rejecting His bodily death, but rather, inferring to a different method of bodily death.

The answer was no.
He had to be the EXAMPLE, before Witnesses, for the worst excruciating bodily death, that ANY man IN CHRIST might suffer.

WHY?
Because others AFTER CHRIST, would also, SUFFER excruciating deaths, as did Jesus, for His own Faith IN GOD.

WHY?
Because, without, a man IN CHRIST WILLING to SUFFER, the SAME CUP of "indignation" as Jesus Himself did.....

It would not BE JUST, for God Himself to POUR OUT HIS CUP of "indignation" UPON the world, WHO REJECTED HIM.

GOD IS JUST. And WHEN the TIME comes, God Himself will AVENGE ALL the people WHO rejected Him, who spilled others Blood, BECAUSE they Rejected Him...

GODS VENGENCE is "IN HIS CUP" of "indignation", that He SHALL pour out upon the people of the WORLD, (who poured out their own "indignation" on the people IN Christ, and believers IN thee God).

Rev 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

BOL's "cup of indignation", is calling people names and liars. It is her mission in life, as she has appointed herself to accomplish, and said she has been doing so for a number of years.

I don't take vengeance upon her, or demand she be silenced, or banned. I laugh at her.

God shall handle the vengeance according to His WILL and WAY.

Glory to God True and Just,
Taken

Think there is a little confusion her, all that stuff, you just posted, is being my life. BOL fishes, men bite. If people stopped biting, BOL might stop fishing., but I really dont think he can. He brings no glory to any one or anything, not even his religion. He is Gods problem and God will deal with him in His time.

 

[Taken]

[QUOTE="Naomi25, post: 474553, member: 7237"First Christ" as firstfruits, "then us" at his coming. First, second. The first one we clearly know happened when Jesus arose from the grave and then ascended into heaven. The second we are told when it happens..."at his coming".


How about when Paul, in Phillipians 1:23, he tells us that as soon as we die, we are with Christ; something that is backed up by what Christ tells the thief on the cross beside him. If we know from 1 Cor 15:51-52 that ALL believers, both those alive at the time of Christ's return, and those who have been dead 'in him', recieve their new, imperishable bodies at the time of his return, we can see that what is "with the Lord" after we die, is but our soul...our "heavenly dwelling" (1 Cor 5:1-5).
[/QUOTE]

From my perspective.....

"US" and "WE" are not the "SAME" people.

To rightly DIVIDE the Word of Truth, an individual must KNOW, "IF" they ARE the "US" or "WE" being spoken of in Scripture, to determine "IF" that particular APPLIES to the "individual" or not.

Jesus came to CAUSE "DIVISION".

Those "IN" Christ, are "NOT" Those "Without" Christ.

During Jesus' bodily time ON EARTH, "SOME" Jews Became "Converted" "IN Christ".

During the life-time of the Apostles, "SOME" Jews Became "Converted" "IN Christ".

For centuries AFTER Jesus bodily arose, Gentiles primarily, Became Converted, "IN Christ".

And the "JEWS" (primarily for centuries) "AFTER" Jesus bodily arose....?? Did what?

Observe History, and Today....
The "JEWS", WHO remain Faithful "TO GOD", do so, "According to WHAT" ??

According to BELIEF, Jesus IS the Messiah, God IN the Flesh? No.

According to BELIEF IN GOD, Under the Law, still WAITING for their Messiah? Yes.

Millions of "JEWS" are "NOT" "IN" Christ.

Jesus is going to Descend FROM Heaven,
TO THE CLOUDS, and CALL UP TO HIM...
The Dead..."IN CHRIST'
The Living.."IN CHRIST'

HOW does that APPLY to Jews, WHO BELIEVE IN GOD....but DO NOT BELIEVE IN Christ?

It Doesn't!

Does that mean, God Forgets about all the "Jews", or any other man WHO believes IN God Almighty, but NOT JESUS?

No, it doesn't. And we KNOW that, ^ because, Scripture notifies us the DIVISION continues during the first part of the Tribulation.

The DIVISION continues "BY" Gods METHOD, of WHO HE SENDS to PREACH "Christ Jesus" among the JEWS.

WHOM does God "SEND"?
"YOU"?
"LIVING MEN, IN Christ"?
(Why? Because Living men IN Christ, were SO SUCCESSFUL in the LAST 2,000 years to Convert Jews to ACCEPT Christ?)

Revelations informs "US" who God will SEND and WHY.

Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The first to be Redeemed ARE those already DIVIDED. They are Already IN CHRIST, HIS CHURCH, and have no need TO REMAIN ON EARTH, when the END is purposed FOR Gods DIVISION to come INTO fruition.

The Last to be Redeemed ARE those who BELIEVE in GOD ALMIGHTY.....and must COME TO BELIEVE IN Christ Jesus.....and must BODILY Die "IN CHRIST" during the Tribulation....SO THAT "THEY" may be Redeemed....AND so also, THEY can enter the Lords Kingdom.

The DIVISION Christ intended IS Accomplished WHEN a LIVING man, believes IN BOTH, God and Christ Jesus, and the man heartfully Confesses, and Becomes Converted...IN CHRIST.

The DIVISION God intended WILL BE accomplished DURING the Tribulation, WHEN LIVING MEN, WHO BELIEVE IN GOD ALMIGHTY, Come to Belief, IN GOD and Christ Jesus.

Once the Complete Division of Christ and God is Accomplished...the earth, the remaining people, the fallen angels are contended with, with those things, God has foretold shall come to pass.

Point being..."US" and "WE" in Scripture, does not ALWAYS apply to ONLY those "IN CHRIST". Sometimes it APPLIES to Believers IN GOD...but whom do not believe in Christ..

And to know the Difference, one needs to know HOW to rightly divided the world of Truth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

Because the weight of the text permits, primarily, a first, then a second action. "First Christ" as firstfruits, "then us" at his coming. First, second. The first one we clearly know happened when Jesus arose from the grave and then ascended into heaven. The second we are told when it happens..."at his coming".
It appears to me that you add an expectation to the text that is not there when you try and imply that "each in their own order" actually means "millions of people at their own timing as they die". The text does not explicitly state this, so it is only an assumption on your part. An assumption that I don't believe the text can carry.

No, I am not adding...but you are taking away:

1 Corinthians 15:23
"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

You have grouped "every man" together as if "the old man" in each one of us is lined up in a firing squad. But the passage says "every man in his own order", not together.

Also, your understanding of "Christ at his coming" is not evident.

Ask yourself:

• Do you have Christ?
• Is it no longer you who lives (as Paul said), but Christ who lives in you?

If you answer, No, then you are in no position to speculate, but simply to hear the good news of His coming and of His salvation for those who believe. But if you answer, Yes, then you are saying that He has come to you already. Why then, would you now deny that He is with you already, that you can interpret the scriptures as if He were not with you - and with you in the glory of the Father, whom is spirit, which is the promise?

No one who has Christ in them would.

 

[ScottA]

Again, you are making wild assumptions based on your desired opinion...not on what the text actually says. It says Christ first, then the rest of us at his coming. Rather than trying to do somersaults with the perspectives of timing, should we not consider other biblical verses that speak to this matter? How about when Paul, in Phillipians 1:23, he tells us that as soon as we die, we are with Christ; something that is backed up by what Christ tells the thief on the cross beside him. If we know from 1 Cor 15:51-52 that ALL believers, both those alive at the time of Christ's return, and those who have been dead 'in him', recieve their new, imperishable bodies at the time of his return, we can see that what is "with the Lord" after we die, is but our soul...our "heavenly dwelling" (1 Cor 5:1-5).
All this to say...There is no bizare time anomaly here that sees people "on our side" being given their imperishable bodies as they die, while all arriving at the same time "on the other side". There is simply no way we can stretch things that far to even suggest this. Rather, the natural reading of this, and corresponding texts, is that Christ is the first example of what will, at some later point, will happen to us all. All the souls in heaven, and the remaining Christians on earth...at Christ's return, we shall be like him.

No, I am not acting on desire or opinion, but by the Spirit. But I am also doing the math, which you are apparently not doing, saying that Christ needs to come again as if He is not with you already. Which if true, would be a personal confession, not the truth according to the scriptures. If He were with you, you would say that you have died already, and it is Christ who now lives. This is what Paul meant when He spoke of being with Christ when you die, though he himself was among "those who are alive and remain." Which, apparently you have not understood.

Nor are you going "on what the text actually says" - you left things out.

Rather than accuse me of doing somersaults, why not realize the great complexity of the God of all creation, whose thoughts are above your own, and realize that you should be decreasing in your own knowledge, and Him increasing? Which, if increasing, means things you never knew are yet to be revealed...just as He said - not by holding fast to "the elementary principles of Christ" which are only written - but by the outpouring of "His spirit upon all flesh."

Or...you could just wait, and pass on the "alive but remain" offer and the service for the harvest which He has for those who will join Him in spirit, and just get all this when you die.

 

[Naomi25]

From my perspective.....

"US" and "WE" are not the "SAME" people.

I have to disagree here, based on context of the text. The only 'separation' of peoples in the texts in question, are those who have already died "in Christ", and those who remain alive at his return...again, who are Christians.

To rightly DIVIDE the Word of Truth, an individual must KNOW, "IF" they ARE the "US" or "WE" being spoken of in Scripture, to determine "IF" that particular APPLIES to the "individual" or not.

Jesus came to CAUSE "DIVISION".

Those "IN" Christ, are "NOT" Those "Without" Christ.

During Jesus' bodily time ON EARTH, "SOME" Jews Became "Converted" "IN Christ".

During the life-time of the Apostles, "SOME" Jews Became "Converted" "IN Christ".

For centuries AFTER Jesus bodily arose, Gentiles primarily, Became Converted, "IN Christ".

And the "JEWS" (primarily for centuries) "AFTER" Jesus bodily arose....?? Did what?

Observe History, and Today....
The "JEWS", WHO remain Faithful "TO GOD", do so, "According to WHAT" ??

According to BELIEF, Jesus IS the Messiah, God IN the Flesh? No.

According to BELIEF IN GOD, Under the Law, still WAITING for their Messiah? Yes.

Millions of "JEWS" are "NOT" "IN" Christ.

So? This has absolutely nothing to do with the texts in question.

Jesus is going to Descend FROM Heaven,
TO THE CLOUDS, and CALL UP TO HIM...
The Dead..."IN CHRIST'
The Living.."IN CHRIST'

HOW does that APPLY to Jews, WHO BELIEVE IN GOD....but DO NOT BELIEVE IN Christ?

It Doesn't!

Does that mean, God Forgets about all the "Jews", or any other man WHO believes IN God Almighty, but NOT JESUS?

No, it doesn't. And we KNOW that, ^ because, Scripture notifies us the DIVISION continues during the first part of the Tribulation.

The DIVISION continues "BY" Gods METHOD, of WHO HE SENDS to PREACH "Christ Jesus" among the JEWS.

WHOM does God "SEND"?
"YOU"?
"LIVING MEN, IN Christ"?
(Why? Because Living men IN Christ, were SO SUCCESSFUL in the LAST 2,000 years to Convert Jews to ACCEPT Christ?)

Revelations informs "US" who God will SEND and WHY.

Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The first to be Redeemed ARE those already DIVIDED. They are Already IN CHRIST, HIS CHURCH, and have no need TO REMAIN ON EARTH, when the END is purposed FOR Gods DIVISION to come INTO fruition.

The Last to be Redeemed ARE those who BELIEVE in GOD ALMIGHTY.....and must COME TO BELIEVE IN Christ Jesus.....and must BODILY Die "IN CHRIST" during the Tribulation....SO THAT "THEY" may be Redeemed....AND so also, THEY can enter the Lords Kingdom.

The DIVISION Christ intended IS Accomplished WHEN a LIVING man, believes IN BOTH, God and Christ Jesus, and the man heartfully Confesses, and Becomes Converted...IN CHRIST.

The DIVISION God intended WILL BE accomplished DURING the Tribulation, WHEN LIVING MEN, WHO BELIEVE IN GOD ALMIGHTY, Come to Belief, IN GOD and Christ Jesus.

Once the Complete Division of Christ and God is Accomplished...the earth, the remaining people, the fallen angels are contended with, with those things, God has foretold shall come to pass.

Point being..."US" and "WE" in Scripture, does not ALWAYS apply to ONLY those "IN CHRIST". Sometimes it APPLIES to Believers IN GOD...but whom do not believe in Christ..

And to know the Difference, one needs to know HOW to rightly divided the world of Truth.

Glory to God,
Taken

That was...dizzying. And also had nothing to do with the texts. At all. Another case, I'm afraid, of agenda reading into a text what they want to see there. Truly...you may say I'm just not "rightly dividing" the word. But when a 'theory' appears and doesn't hold even one line of the verse it's supposedly using to prove itself, I think I'm on solid ground.

 

[Naomi25]

No, I am not adding...but you are taking away:

1 Corinthians 15:23
"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

You have grouped "every man" together as if "the old man" in each one of us is lined up in a firing squad. But the passage says "every man in his own order", not together.

I've twisted and turned the passage have I? I've been the one who's not seen the common sense written there? Because when we look at that one little sentence, we, of course, can see the vast doctrine written there, of time distortions and the like. That's clearly the natural reading of it...silly me!

But then...

But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. -1 Corinthians 15:23

What if we were to actually just...I don't know...read it as it flowed? "But heres the order: Christ first, THEN at his coming those who belong to him."

See how that flows, and how wonderfully simple it is? No need for bizare time distortions that the text doesn't talk about, or to do amazing aerobic feats with the text to fit it into an idea you already have.
Paul is not trying to confuse us, he's just telling us like it is. Jesus showed us what will be, and when he comes again, that's when 'the magic' (in terms of our upgrade) will happen.

Also, your understanding of "Christ at his coming" is not evident.

Ask yourself:

• Do you have Christ?
• Is it no longer you who lives (as Paul said), but Christ who lives in you?

If you answer, No, then you are in no position to speculate, but simply to hear the good news of His coming and of His salvation for those who believe. But if you answer, Yes, then you are saying that He has come to you already. Why then, would you now deny that He is with you already, that you can interpret the scriptures as if He were not with you - and with you in the glory of the Father, whom is spirit, which is the promise?

No one who has Christ in them would.

Ah, I see. It's my understanding here that's the problem. I'm a dope, and that's why I can't see your amazing loop de loop points. No...wait! It might not be because I'm a dope...it's probably because I'm not even saved! E gads! What are you doing even talking to someone like me?
Quick, distract me and everyone else by having a "come to Jesus" conversation.

 

[ScottA]

I've twisted and turned the passage have I? I've been the one who's not seen the common sense written there? Because when we look at that one little sentence, we, of course, can see the vast doctrine written there, of time distortions and the like. That's clearly the natural reading of it...silly me!

But then...

But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. -1 Corinthians 15:23

What if we were to actually just...I don't know...read it as it flowed? "But heres the order: Christ first, THEN at his coming those who belong to him."

See how that flows, and how wonderfully simple it is? No need for bizare time distortions that the text doesn't talk about, or to do amazing aerobic feats with the text to fit it into an idea you already have.
Paul is not trying to confuse us, he's just telling us like it is. Jesus showed us what will be, and when he comes again, that's when 'the magic' (in terms of our upgrade) will happen.


Ah, I see. It's my understanding here that's the problem. I'm a dope, and that's why I can't see your amazing loop de loop points. No...wait! It might not be because I'm a dope...it's probably because I'm not even saved! E gads! What are you doing even talking to someone like me?
Quick, distract me and everyone else by having a "come to Jesus" conversation.

It's really pretty simple:

• Read the passages and include [all] of the words and don't take out things like "every man" when referring to "each in his own order." But you can't seem to do that.

• And if Christ left...and He is now with you (or anyone)...DUH!...He has already returned. But you apparently deny that He is even with us...or that He never left.

 

[Naomi25]

It's really pretty simple:

• Read the passages and include [all] of the words and don't take out things like "every man" when referring to "each in his own order." But you can't seem to do that.

Well, let's consider some things, shall we? You say that these words in particular, are essential to the meaning of the passage, and cannot be left out. Let's see how do most bible translations see it?
New International Version
But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

New Living Translation
But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.

English Standard Version
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

Berean Study Bible
But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

New American Standard Bible
But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,

King James Bible
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Christian Standard Bible
But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at his coming, those who belong to Christ.

Contemporary English Version
But we must each wait our turn. Christ was the first to be raised to life, and his people will be raised to life when he returns.

Good News Translation
But each one will be raised in proper order: Christ, first of all; then, at the time of his coming, those who belong to him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ.

International Standard Version
However, this will happen to each person in the proper order: first the Messiah, then those who belong to the Messiah when he comes.

New Heart English Bible
But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ's, at his coming.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Each person in his order; The Messiah was the first fruits; after this, those who are The Messiah's at his arrival.

King James 2000 Bible
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

American Standard Version
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.

English Revised Version
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.

So...only the KJV outright state "every man". Others put it "each in HIS own order". What does the greek actually say?

Ἕκαστος δὲ ἐν τῷ ἰδίῳ τάγματι· ἀπαρχὴ Χριστός, ἔπειτα οἱ τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ αὐτοῦ,

Or: Hekastos de en to idio tagmati aparche Christos epeita hoi tou Christou en te parousia autou

Basically: "Each, however, in the own order; [the] firstfruit Christ, then those of Christ at the coming of Him."

Original Word: ὁ, ἡ, τό
Part of Speech: Definite Article
Transliteration: ho, hé, to
Phonetic Spelling: (ho)
Definition: the
Usage: the, the definite article.

As the word in question here is being used as a definite article, it is setting up the 'who' we are talking about...namely, those who are 'being ordered'. Are they mentioned again in this verse? Absolutely. We are told WHO and we are told WHEN. WHEN Christ comes, those who BELONG to Christ will be made like him.

This is why all the other bibles translated it as they did. Even the KJV, with it's "man" added there, still gives us the same meaning. The verse is abundantly clear. It tells us who (Christians), it gives us an order (Christ first, believers second) and it tells us what that order timing will be (Christ went first, and at his return, we also shall be like him).
The notion that 1) I'm neglecting a clear intent of this verse is stretching it, as it'd debatable at best if there is some extra, hidden meaning buried in the text, and 2) these things are not clear and evident from the natural reading of the text, is...well...ludicrous.

And if Christ left...and He is now with you (or anyone)...DUH!...He has already returned. But you apparently deny that He is even with us...or that He never left.

Why do people find it so hard to comprehend omnipresence? And the idea that Christ can be with us through the promise of the Spirit, but still have so very, very clearly promised a physical return in scripture.
I have no desire to argue this with you, as I've been there, done that with others here. If you are so utterly mistaken or decieved to read right over all those beloved promises, as clear as they are, then I just feel sorry for you.
Don't worry about me, I'm not missing his presence presently, God the Spirit, the promised helper...the one who delights in bringing to mind and heart the things of Christ, is with me daily. So, you might say I'm getting the best of both worlds. I have my God now, and I have something wonderful to look forward to. If this is "as good as it gets" for you....

 

[Taken]

1 Cor 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Cor 15:
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thes 4:
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Every man, "HIS OWN ORDER".

"IF" every man, DOES NOT KNOW, His OWN ORDER, then SUCH INDIVIDUAL MEN, can NOT KNOW, what to EXPECT, or UNDERSTAND, "WHEN" to EXPECT IT.

Gods INTENT is to "DIVIDE"
...What He is "DIVIDING" IS;
...Believers FROM Unbelievers.

Gods INTENT is to "RESTORE & QUICKENEN"
...Committed Believers FROM Unbelievers.

Gods INTENT is to "SEPARATE"
...THE WHOLE Committed Believer From
...THE WHOLE Unbeliever.

The WHOLE Committed Believer IS:
1) THE restored and SAVED SOUL
2) THE QUICKENED and spiritual SPIRIT
3) THE BODY Raised IN a Glorious BODY.

The WHOLE Unbeliever IS:
1) The CORRUPT UNSAVED Soul
2) The CORRUPT natural SPIRIT
3) The CORRUPT BODY.

Jesus IS OUR EXAMPLE....that men COULD SEE, and not only be TOLD what would come to pass.....BUT SEE "IN" Christ Jesus, an EXAMPLE of what would come to pass....FOR ANY MAN, WHOM SUCH BECAME himself...
"IN CHRIST".

"IF" a man HAS BECOME "IN" Christ Jesus.
He DOES SO MAKE His CONFESSION OF BELIEF, OF GOD, OF CHRIST JESUS, FROM HIS HEART, WHILE ALIVE IN HIS CORRUPT BODY.

AND His BODY is immediately, Crucified with Christ.
AND his SOUL is immediately, Restored and Saved UNTO CHRIST.
AND his HEART is immediately, Circumcised.
AND Gods Spirit immediately, PLANTS HIS SEED in the NEW HEART of the man.
AND Gods SEED immediately, REBIRTHS the mans SPIRIT. (Naturally born from a mans seed to Supernaturally born from Gods Seed).

Thus....THAT MAN IS: Completely PREPARED "IN" Christ Jesus, "TO BE" BODILY RISEN UP IN A GLORIOUS BODY; "WHEN" the Lord Jesus, "Descends" BODILY WITH POWER, FROM Heaven, "TO THE CLOUDS."
It matters NOT, IF a man IS supernatural and physically dead IN Christ, or supernaturally dead and physically alive IN Christ.
Christ IS Descending from Heaven TO the Clouds TO CALL UP TO HIM IN THE CLOUDS, EVERY MAN, "ALL" that ARE "HIS CHURCH".
1 Thes 4: 14 - 17

You can go READ in Revelations ABOUT THE SEVEN CHURCHES. They are in specific locations, however, they represent ALL the Churches in the World. Each Church is critiqued, for what the Church does, teach, and its members......AND you can READ, also what IS the Lords COMPLAINT about each Church.
You could likely find men reading about such churches, and trying to find the one with Jesus' least complaints, and such a man saying....oh, oh, THAT, is the Church LIKE "MY" Church.....whoopie, see, be like me, join this Church, this is the best Church.

WHOOPS...Jesus' Church is NOT a BUILDING!
Nor was it "established" BY MEN.

Jesus' CHURCH IS WITHIN men;
Established Before the world Began and Revealed IN Judea.

Point Being, Earthly man made Churches, are established and build by men, and fall short are being What Christ established and revealed IN Judea.

1 Thes 2:14
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus:

It IS NOT the ORDER of EVERY MAN, to BE Forgiven, Crucified, Saved, Quickened....
At THE SAME TIME!

It IS the ORDER of EVERY Physically and Spiritually DEAD BODY;
TO BE RAISED BODILY UP to Christ Jesus IN THE CLOUDS, when HE descends from Heaven TO the Clouds.

It IS the ORDER of EVERY Spiritually DEAD BODY, Living soul, and quickened spirit; (immediately AFTER the Spiritually and Physically Dead bodies)
TO BE RAISED BODILY UP to Christ Jesus IN the CLOUDS, when He descends from Heaven TO the Clouds.

It IN the Clouds, Christ's Church IS WITH HIM, "IN THEIR WHOLENESS", PHYSICALLY.. body, soul, spirit and THEY CAN NOW SEE HIM as HE IS SPIRITUALLY.

Jesus has not yet REVEALED HIMSELF TO THE WORLD AS THE SON OF MAN, that the world can SEE.

Jesus has REVEALED HIMSELF, AS HE IS; (SPIRIT,) TO HIS CHURCH; (WHOLE men, "IN" Christ Jesus,) "IN" the Clouds.

There are many more LEFT on EARTH, that shall be "DIVIDED" and "SEPARATED" during the Tribulation.

And WHAT and WHEN shall APPLY to "them" in "their ORDER" is revealed IN Scripture.

No one can "UNDERSTAND FOR YOU", what and when "YOUR ORDER comes into fruition".

If you are "without understanding", After Christ, who has already fulfilled; His Church shall follow, who are Prepared; ON the Day of His Choosing.

Thereafter, the Tribulation begins, and OTHERS shall make their own choices...
DURING the Tribulation....While many are killed IN their sin, many taking the mark of satan, many running and hiding, and some listening to Christ being preached, "BY" the Lords 144,000 Holy Priests...

Until the LAST Trump, when the LAST of the men having Chosen God and Christ are removed from the Earth....

Tribulation is FOR determining the FINAL "Divided and Separated", of Believers coming to Christ or unbelievers rejecting Christ...

And Tribulation is FOR the Earth and People of the Earth, to SUFFER consequences of Rejecting Gods Restoration and Quickening.

Jesus DESCENDS from Heaven "TO the CLOUDS"....NO ONE SEES HIM, Coming TO the CLOUDS. He calls UP HIS Church TO HIM, IN the CLOUDS. This TIME, in short, is simply called "the RAPTURE". Which has nothing to do with men...ON EARTH, yet seeing the Son of Man.
It has everthing to DO with those PREPARED men, being called up IN GLORY to Meet their Lord and See Him IN SPIRIT, as they are themselves RAISED in the spirit.

Jesus RETURNS to the Earth..."WITH CLOUDS". '"IN the CLOUDS".
AFTER the TRIBULATION.

WHO shall SEE the SON of MAN, "COMING" TO EARTH "IN" the CLOUDS?

All those left on Earth, WHO CAN NOT SEE the Lord IN SPIRIT, Because THEY are NOT IN SPIRIT!

Mark 13
[24] But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
[25] And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
[26] And then shall "they" see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Rev 1: 7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and "all kindreds of the earth" shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Are YOU Still "OF" the Earth, a MORTAL BODY?

Because THOSE IN Christ, called UP to Christ ARE NOT "OF" the CORRUPT EARTH....BECAUSE; Men IN Christ are "NOT OF THE WORLD.

John 15:19
ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Are YOU going to be ON the EARTH, Seeing the Lord Descend From the Clouds, in the Clouds, with Clouds......LOOKING at the Son of Man.....AND WAILING?

"STILL CORRUPT, and OF the CORRUPT EARTH" and "wailing in
a prolonged high-pitched cry of pain, grief, or anger WITH unsaved men OF the World STILL on Earth?"

Read, Study, Learn, the ORDER, and what applies to you, and that which does not, and understand the difference.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

1 Cor 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Cor 15:
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thes 4:
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Every man, "HIS OWN ORDER".

"IF" every man, DOES NOT KNOW, His OWN ORDER, then SUCH INDIVIDUAL MEN, can NOT KNOW, what to EXPECT, or UNDERSTAND, "WHEN" to EXPECT IT.

Gods INTENT is to "DIVIDE"
...What He is "DIVIDING" IS;
...Believers FROM Unbelievers.

Gods INTENT is to "RESTORE & QUICKENEN"
...Committed Believers FROM Unbelievers.

Gods INTENT is to "SEPARATE"
...THE WHOLE Committed Believer From
...THE WHOLE Unbeliever.

The WHOLE Committed Believer IS:
1) THE restored and SAVED SOUL
2) THE QUICKENED and spiritual SPIRIT
3) THE BODY Raised IN a Glorious BODY.

The WHOLE Unbeliever IS:
1) The CORRUPT UNSAVED Soul
2) The CORRUPT natural SPIRIT
3) The CORRUPT BODY.

Jesus IS OUR EXAMPLE....that men COULD SEE, and not only be TOLD what would come to pass.....BUT SEE "IN" Christ Jesus, an EXAMPLE of what would come to pass....FOR ANY MAN, WHOM SUCH BECAME himself...
"IN CHRIST".

"IF" a man HAS BECOME "IN" Christ Jesus.
He DOES SO MAKE His CONFESSION OF BELIEF, OF GOD, OF CHRIST JESUS, FROM HIS HEART, WHILE ALIVE IN HIS CORRUPT BODY.

AND His BODY is immediately, Crucified with Christ.
AND his SOUL is immediately, Restored and Saved UNTO CHRIST.
AND his HEART is immediately, Circumcised.
AND Gods Spirit immediately, PLANTS HIS SEED in the NEW HEART of the man.
AND Gods SEED immediately, REBIRTHS the mans SPIRIT. (Naturally born from a mans seed to Supernaturally born from Gods Seed).

Thus....THAT MAN IS: Completely PREPARED "IN" Christ Jesus, "TO BE" BODILY RISEN UP IN A GLORIOUS BODY; "WHEN" the Lord Jesus, "Descends" BODILY WITH POWER, FROM Heaven, "TO THE CLOUDS."
It matters NOT, IF a man IS supernatural and physically dead IN Christ, or supernaturally dead and physically alive IN Christ.
Christ IS Descending from Heaven TO the Clouds TO CALL UP TO HIM IN THE CLOUDS, EVERY MAN, "ALL" that ARE "HIS CHURCH".
1 Thes 4: 14 - 17

You can go READ in Revelations ABOUT THE SEVEN CHURCHES. They are in specific locations, however, they represent ALL the Churches in the World. Each Church is critiqued, for what the Church does, teach, and its members......AND you can READ, also what IS the Lords COMPLAINT about each Church.
You could likely find men reading about such churches, and trying to find the one with Jesus' least complaints, and such a man saying....oh, oh, THAT, is the Church LIKE "MY" Church.....whoopie, see, be like me, join this Church, this is the best Church.

WHOOPS...Jesus' Church is NOT a BUILDING!
Nor was it "established" BY MEN.

Jesus' CHURCH IS WITHIN men;
Established Before the world Began and Revealed IN Judea.

Point Being, Earthly man made Churches, are established and build by men, and fall short are being What Christ established and revealed IN Judea.

1 Thes 2:14
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus:

It IS NOT the ORDER of EVERY MAN, to BE Forgiven, Crucified, Saved, Quickened....
At THE SAME TIME!

It IS the ORDER of EVERY Physically and Spiritually DEAD BODY;
TO BE RAISED BODILY UP to Christ Jesus IN THE CLOUDS, when HE descends from Heaven TO the Clouds.

It IS the ORDER of EVERY Spiritually DEAD BODY, Living soul, and quickened spirit; (immediately AFTER the Spiritually and Physically Dead bodies)
TO BE RAISED BODILY UP to Christ Jesus IN the CLOUDS, when He descends from Heaven TO the Clouds.

It IN the Clouds, Christ's Church IS WITH HIM, "IN THEIR WHOLENESS", PHYSICALLY.. body, soul, spirit and THEY CAN NOW SEE HIM as HE IS SPIRITUALLY.

Jesus has not yet REVEALED HIMSELF TO THE WORLD AS THE SON OF MAN, that the world can SEE.

Jesus has REVEALED HIMSELF, AS HE IS; (SPIRIT,) TO HIS CHURCH; (WHOLE men, "IN" Christ Jesus,) "IN" the Clouds.

There are many more LEFT on EARTH, that shall be "DIVIDED" and "SEPARATED" during the Tribulation.

And WHAT and WHEN shall APPLY to "them" in "their ORDER" is revealed IN Scripture.

No one can "UNDERSTAND FOR YOU", what and when "YOUR ORDER comes into fruition".

If you are "without understanding", After Christ, who has already fulfilled; His Church shall follow, who are Prepared; ON the Day of His Choosing.

Thereafter, the Tribulation begins, and OTHERS shall make their own choices...
DURING the Tribulation....While many are killed IN their sin, many taking the mark of satan, many running and hiding, and some listening to Christ being preached, "BY" the Lords 144,000 Holy Priests...

Until the LAST Trump, when the LAST of the men having Chosen God and Christ are removed from the Earth....

Tribulation is FOR determining the FINAL "Divided and Separated", of Believers coming to Christ or unbelievers rejecting Christ...

And Tribulation is FOR the Earth and People of the Earth, to SUFFER consequences of Rejecting Gods Restoration and Quickening.

Jesus DESCENDS from Heaven "TO the CLOUDS"....NO ONE SEES HIM, Coming TO the CLOUDS. He calls UP HIS Church TO HIM, IN the CLOUDS. This TIME, in short, is simply called "the RAPTURE". Which has nothing to do with men...ON EARTH, yet seeing the Son of Man.
It has everthing to DO with those PREPARED men, being called up IN GLORY to Meet their Lord and See Him IN SPIRIT, as they are themselves RAISED in the spirit.

Jesus RETURNS to the Earth..."WITH CLOUDS". '"IN the CLOUDS".
AFTER the TRIBULATION.

WHO shall SEE the SON of MAN, "COMING" TO EARTH "IN" the CLOUDS?

All those left on Earth, WHO CAN NOT SEE the Lord IN SPIRIT, Because THEY are NOT IN SPIRIT!

Mark 13
[24] But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
[25] And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
[26] And then shall "they" see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Rev 1: 7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and "all kindreds of the earth" shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Are YOU Still "OF" the Earth, a MORTAL BODY?

Because THOSE IN Christ, called UP to Christ ARE NOT "OF" the CORRUPT EARTH....BECAUSE; Men IN Christ are "NOT OF THE WORLD.

John 15:19
ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Are YOU going to be ON the EARTH, Seeing the Lord Descend From the Clouds, in the Clouds, with Clouds......LOOKING at the Son of Man.....AND WAILING?

"STILL CORRUPT, and OF the CORRUPT EARTH" and "wailing in
a prolonged high-pitched cry of pain, grief, or anger WITH unsaved men OF the World STILL on Earth?"

Read, Study, Learn, the ORDER, and what applies to you, and that which does not, and understand the difference.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

Well, let's consider some things, shall we? You say that these words in particular, are essential to the meaning of the passage, and cannot be left out. Let's see how do most bible translations see it?
New International Version
But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

New Living Translation
But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.

English Standard Version
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

Berean Study Bible
But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

New American Standard Bible
But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,

King James Bible
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Christian Standard Bible
But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at his coming, those who belong to Christ.

Contemporary English Version
But we must each wait our turn. Christ was the first to be raised to life, and his people will be raised to life when he returns.

Good News Translation
But each one will be raised in proper order: Christ, first of all; then, at the time of his coming, those who belong to him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ.

International Standard Version
However, this will happen to each person in the proper order: first the Messiah, then those who belong to the Messiah when he comes.

New Heart English Bible
But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ's, at his coming.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Each person in his order; The Messiah was the first fruits; after this, those who are The Messiah's at his arrival.

King James 2000 Bible
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

American Standard Version
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.

English Revised Version
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.

So...only the KJV outright state "every man". Others put it "each in HIS own order". What does the greek actually say?

Ἕκαστος δὲ ἐν τῷ ἰδίῳ τάγματι· ἀπαρχὴ Χριστός, ἔπειτα οἱ τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ αὐτοῦ,

Or: Hekastos de en to idio tagmati aparche Christos epeita hoi tou Christou en te parousia autou

Basically: "Each, however, in the own order; [the] firstfruit Christ, then those of Christ at the coming of Him."

Original Word: ὁ, ἡ, τό
Part of Speech: Definite Article
Transliteration: ho, hé, to
Phonetic Spelling: (ho)
Definition: the
Usage: the, the definite article.

As the word in question here is being used as a definite article, it is setting up the 'who' we are talking about...namely, those who are 'being ordered'. Are they mentioned again in this verse? Absolutely. We are told WHO and we are told WHEN. WHEN Christ comes, those who BELONG to Christ will be made like him.

This is why all the other bibles translated it as they did. Even the KJV, with it's "man" added there, still gives us the same meaning. The verse is abundantly clear. It tells us who (Christians), it gives us an order (Christ first, believers second) and it tells us what that order timing will be (Christ went first, and at his return, we also shall be like him).
The notion that 1) I'm neglecting a clear intent of this verse is stretching it, as it'd debatable at best if there is some extra, hidden meaning buried in the text, and 2) these things are not clear and evident from the natural reading of the text, is...well...ludicrous.



Why do people find it so hard to comprehend omnipresence? And the idea that Christ can be with us through the promise of the Spirit, but still have so very, very clearly promised a physical return in scripture.
I have no desire to argue this with you, as I've been there, done that with others here. If you are so utterly mistaken or decieved to read right over all those beloved promises, as clear as they are, then I just feel sorry for you.
Don't worry about me, I'm not missing his presence presently, God the Spirit, the promised helper...the one who delights in bringing to mind and heart the things of Christ, is with me daily. So, you might say I'm getting the best of both worlds. I have my God now, and I have something wonderful to look forward to. If this is "as good as it gets" for you....

That was all good until you added the promise of a physical return, which proves that your understanding is incredibly wrong, for He said, "The world sees Me no more."

And the irony is...you feel sorry for me. So, I will yield to your request: I will not worry about you.

Nonetheless, for those who have received Christ in the glory of the Father whom is spirit and it is no longer them who live, but Christ who lives in them...let it be known that this is how and when He returns/returned in a way that "The world sees Me no more." Which is the reconciliation and the whole counsel of His word, even if many do not receive it at their own loss until the end.

 

[Taken]

Mankind has a FORM, a SHAPE, a BODY, created from DUST of a Created Earth, and that FORM (shape, body) is covered in FLESH, created from DUST of the Created Earth.

And Mankind Has a Mind, a Heart, a Spirit, BLOOD, and many other "parts" of the EARTHLY, Natural man, that were Created from DUST of a Created Earth.

GOD HAS a SHAPE (FORM, BODY)...but it can not be SEEN by Earthly, Natural men.

GOD HAS a VOICE (WORDS that come out of HIS MOUTH)...but it can not be HEARD by Earthly, Natural men.

John 5:37
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

GOD IS a SPIRIT, and HAS SPIRITS, (all within His ONE SPIRIT who is HE), that ALL can come forth out from Him, AND BE WITH or WITHIN MEN, UNSEEN...and (while NOT emptying Himself of HIMSELF and His SPIRITS).

1 Cor 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

Rev 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

God Does have a SHAPE/BODY....but it does not come from DUST of a Created Earth.....
NOR CAN ANY EARTHLY MAN, SEE HIS BODY........UNTIL the man Himself has been made WHOLE, "AND" the mans OWN BODY GLORIFIED.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Zech 14:9
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Praise and Glory to God, Thee Creator of ALL things, and His Grace to Change the "WILLING" Natural and MAKE THEM Glorious UNTO HIM, to BECOME HIS INHERITANCE.

Ex 34:9
And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

God Bless,
Taken