The Rest of The Dead

[ScottA]

I understand your perspective, being from that of God's point of view, of how there is no sin above another. To THAT I agree, but that is not the perpective that God is speaking from in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. He is speaking to the Day of the physical return of Christ from Heaven.

However, He specifically told us of what the situation shall be ON THE EARTH, and that which has to do WITH HIMSELF. By those two situations, it is preventing God the Father from sending Jesus to physically Redeem us unto Himself.
They are:
1. Christ shall not return, except there come a falling away (from faith) first...2 Thes. 2:1-3
2. [9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise (of salvation),.....but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9.

When people fall away from having faith in God, it will be then that God's Longsuffering will have ENDED.
It will be then and only then, shall He send Jesus to return!

Again, I need to mark your errors in [RED].

1. You have added "physical" to the word of God. It's not there.
2. You have also added "from faith." It too is not there.
3. The rest is just your interpretation and conjecture, an extrapolation of the errors rationalized by human understanding.

But if you will deny yourself that error, what remains is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world and then sent, even before the world began, to all men "each in his own order" or "time." Which was then made manifest in the world beginning with Adam. Here are the confirming passages:

2 Thessalonians 2:5-6​

"Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."

1 Corinthians 15:23
"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

 

[Earburner]

Again, I need to mark your errors in [RED].

1. You have added "physical" to the word of God. It's not there.
2. You have also added "from faith." It too is not there.
3. The rest is just your interpretation and conjecture, an extrapolation of the errors rationalized by human understanding.

But if you will deny yourself that error, what remains is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world and then sent, even before the world began, to all men "each in his own order" or "time." Which was then made manifest in the world beginning with Adam. Here are the confirming passages:

2 Thessalonians 2:5-6​

"Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."

1 Corinthians 15:23
"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

1. Apparently you do not allow for the Holy Spirit's interpretation/meaning of God's word, therefore you can only read the literal words. Isaiah 55:8-9, John 16:13.

2. So, when Thomas was challenged by Jesus to touch His hands and His feet, for the scars made by the nails, and then thrust his hand into His side, that wasn't a witness, that Jesus' Resurrection was indeed physical?
Luke 25[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Your Bible references are relative to the context of Jesus' physical return from Heaven. Please see
2 Thessalonians 2:7-8
1 Corinthians 15:51-53

 

[Earburner]

^ As for the understanding that people will be "falling away" from faith, prior to His Physical return, that is easily understood in the words of Jesus Himself in Luke 18[8] I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

In that Day, Jesus revealed two events, that shall be upon His Physical return from Heaven:
1. A lack of faith on the earth, which is the only reason of why Jesus is sent on his return trip to earth by the Father.
2. God's vengeance in flaming fire upon ALL who do not have obey the Gospel of Christ, or have His Holy Spirit- Romans 8:9

 

[ScottA]

1. Apparently you do not allow for the Holy Spirit's interpretation/meaning of God's word, therefore you can only read the literal words. Isaiah 55:8-9, John 16:13.

What has that got to do with you adding the word "physical" to the scriptures about Christ's return?

Well...it has nothing to do with it. It's just a dodge, because you have nothing to support your violating the scriptures.

But don't get me wrong, I am all for all truth and for the Holy Spirit filling in the blanks unto all truth. The problem is, it is not the Holy Spirit doing it if you go against the whole of scripture...it's just you in error.

It is easy to agree with the scriptures and support a case for the second coming along the lines of "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." But that is not what you have done. You simply interpret it your own way or by the teachings of others in error. Which simply makes it hard to reason with you and to have a decent discussion.

And that was just the first line of your post.

 

[Earburner]

What has that got to do with you adding the word "physical" to the scriptures about Christ's return?

Well...it has nothing to do with it. It's just a dodge, because you have nothing to support your violating the scriptures.

But don't get me wrong, I am all for all truth and for the Holy Spirit filling in the blanks unto all truth. The problem is, it is not the Holy Spirit doing it if you go against the whole of scripture...it's just you in error.

It is easy to agree with the scriptures and support a case for the second coming along the lines of "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." But that is not what you have done. You simply interpret it your own way or by the teachings of others in error. Which simply makes it hard to reason with you and to have a decent discussion.

And that was just the first line of your post.

You just proved your point that you are a "literist", of which means that you are content to understand the literal words of the Bible, according your fleshly, analytical mind, and not by the Mind of Christ. Isaiah 55:8-9, 1 Corinthians 2:14-16.
You should know that Pharisees had such a problem.

 

[Earburner]

BTW, you forgot to answer my question:
2. So, when Thomas was challenged by Jesus to touch His hands and His feet, for the scars made by the nails, and then thrust his hand into His side, that wasn't a witness, that Jesus' Resurrection was indeed physical?
Luke 25[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

[Earburner]

Furthermore, i did not add the word "physical" to the scriptures. I added commentary:
"I understand your perspective, being from that of God's point of view, of how there is no sin above another. To THAT I agree, but that is not the perpective that God is speaking from in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. He is speaking to the Day of the physical return of Christ from Heaven."

 

[Earburner]

You simply interpret it your own way or by the teachings of others in error. Which simply makes it hard to reason with you and to have a decent discussion.

Because I percieve that you intend to deny and/or scoff at the prophecy of Jesus' sudden and Glorious return, you will never find common ground to reason with me, or any who are like me! Its you who is denying scripture!!
"...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
in flaming fire, taking vengeance on all them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8

 

[Earburner]

Also, so that there will be no misunderstanding, when I used the word "physical", I was meaning He Resurrected into the Immortality of His New physical body.

 

[ScottA]

You just proved your point that you are a "literist", of which means that you are content to understand the literal words of the Bible, according your fleshly, analytical mind, and not by the Mind of Christ. Isaiah 55:8-9, 1 Corinthians 2:14-16.
You should know that Pharisees had such a problem.

No...I just made a case that both the Holy Spirit and the scriptures must agree. And I only do so, because your comments and theories do not agree on both levels. And now you call me names. Typical.

 

[ScottA]

Because I percieve that you intend to deny and/or scoff at the prophecy of Jesus' sudden and Glorious return, you will never find common ground to reason with me, or any who are like me! Its you who is denying scripture!!
"...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
in flaming fire, taking vengeance on all them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8

On the contrary, it is I who have shown that you do not agree with the scriptures, and you won't hear the scriptural explanation. You are demonstrating that you are simply set in your limited understanding, and like those who killed the prophets, you believe that God is with you in your error. He's not.

 

[Earburner]

It is easy to agree with the scriptures and support a case for the second coming along the lines of "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." But that is not what you have done. You simply interpret it your own way or by the teachings of others in error.

Why are you attempting to misconstrue my meaning, when I agree with "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."
Jesus came from Heaven, became mortal flesh and blood, died on the Cross, and Resurrected into His New body of Immortal "flesh and bone". What don't you understand of that?

 

[Earburner]

On the contrary, it is I who have shown that you do not agree with the scriptures, and you won't hear the scriptural explanation. You are demonstrating that you are simply set in your limited understanding, and like those who killed the prophets, you believe that God is with you in your error. He's not.

It appears that you are dancing and dodging around an invisible pole, that you prefer not to show me.

When Jesus is reveald and appears from Heaven, it is apparent that the Beast and the kings and their armies shall SEE Him, because the Beast and the kings and their armies shall wage war against Christ and his army. Revelation 19[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Or is this invisible to you also?

 

[Earburner]

On the contrary, it is I who have shown that you do not agree with the scriptures, and you won't hear the scriptural explanation. You are demonstrating that you are simply set in your limited understanding, and like those who killed the prophets, you believe that God is with you in your error. He's not.

Since you are denying the truth of 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 as to become a literal event, upon the Lord's visible and Glorious return, surely you must have in waiting, a proposal for an alternative scenario.
So, lets hear it!

 

[Earburner]

No...I just made a case that both the Holy Spirit and the scriptures must agree. And I only do so, because your comments and theories do not agree on both levels. And now you call me names. Typical.

Sorry Scott, you have made no case of proving anything against what I say, because you are presenting nothing that opposes it, except to say that I am in error. Your words against me are meaningless.
I am beginning to suspect that you are preaching another gospel. The one that states that Jesus has already returned! I am hoping that is not the case, because at the moment, you are sounding very JW to me.

 

[Earburner]

No...I just made a case that both the Holy Spirit and the scriptures must agree. And I only do so, because your comments and theories do not agree on both levels. And now you call me names. Typical.

Not typical, but rather truthful. The pharisees could not discern the Lord's thoughts through His words!
You are presenting nothing thats telling me otherwise.

 

[ScottA]

Also, so that there will be no misunderstanding, when I used the word "physical", I was meaning He Resurrected into the Immortality of His New physical body.

Jesus is God. God is spirit. These are the biblical facts. There is nothing "physical" about God. Physical manifestations are "vanity."

"His New physical body" (as you say) is not biblical.

 

[ScottA]

Why are you attempting to misconstrue my meaning, when I agree with "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."
Jesus came from Heaven, became mortal flesh and blood, died on the Cross, and Resurrected into His New body of Immortal "flesh and bone". What don't you understand of that?

It is not what I don't understand that is wrong, it is what I do understand...and apparently you do not, that "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." Thus, what you are saying...is against (anti) Christ.

 

[Earburner]

Jesus is God. God is spirit. These are the biblical facts. There is nothing "physical" about God. Physical manifestations are "vanity."

"His New physical body" (as you say) is not biblical.

Since that is what you believe, then you ARE denying scripture. Why is it that you don't answer my question, concerning Luke 25:39? Was Jesus lying?

 

[Earburner]

It is not what I don't understand that is wrong, it is what I do understand...and apparently you do not, that "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." Thus, what you are saying...is against (anti) Christ.

After His Resurrection, Jesus didn't say that He was "flesh and blood". He said that He was "flesh and bone". Now do you comprehend how much of a fact His Immortal body was different?? He wasn't resuscitated, HE WAS resurrected into Newness of Life, aka Immortality.
Oooppps my error in the above posts: I meant
KJV Luke 24:39