That kind of subject topic is not really suitable for those who have already believed on The LORD GOD through His Son Jesus Christ.
So, are you a Christian believer???
Moral Argument
- Thread starter JesusFreakMartyr
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
That kind of subject topic is not really suitable for those who have already believed on The LORD GOD through His Son Jesus Christ.
So, are you a Christian believer???
If what your saying is true then those moral values are not objective but subjective; subject to the constraints of the society they reside in.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Any born-again believer knows that objective moral standards exist, and are given by God.
It should also be understood that the moral laws of the Old Testament have never passed away. Adultery is still adultery, thievery is still thievery, lying is still lying, and gay sex remains a sin (etc.).
It should also be understood that the moral laws of the Old Testament have never passed away. Adultery is still adultery, thievery is still thievery, lying is still lying, and gay sex remains a sin (etc.).
Actually there is no such thing as an objective moral. It is men that make morals from an influnce of a partial understanding of God's will. What is good is good because God says it is. What is evil is so because God says it is. If we don't see that then we are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...a tree that God said was not good. Do we know better than God?
ALL moral values are SUBJECTIVE because a moral code is self-centered, that is, decided upon by the individual. What most of you are debating is not morality but ethics. Ethics is over-arching social system to which our personal moral conduct is measured.
First, let's toss all the snowjobbers and scripture monkeys overboard who automatically post "God this" and "God that" in whatever thread they participate, even if it is a thread about cooking chili. Until we nail down a basic and common understanding of the difference and similarities between morals and ethics all the God posting we could ever want to do is meaningless.
Now that they are properly annoyed let's continue:
The question as to whether we attach our moral compas to a God centered ethic or a non-God centered ethic is a valid question, but goes beyond the scope of the OP. The ethical standard which an individual adhears is ultimately the hammer that shatters the OP argument because all those premises assume an unwritten premise, specifically, "All moral values are derived from God."
We know that assumption to be false from common experience. The better question to be asked is, "Are the moral values derived from a God Centered Ethic superior to all other ethical standards?"
When we answer that question we have a better understanding of ourselves and the Lord whom we worship.
First, let's toss all the snowjobbers and scripture monkeys overboard who automatically post "God this" and "God that" in whatever thread they participate, even if it is a thread about cooking chili. Until we nail down a basic and common understanding of the difference and similarities between morals and ethics all the God posting we could ever want to do is meaningless.
Now that they are properly annoyed let's continue:
wisegeek said:
The question as to whether we attach our moral compas to a God centered ethic or a non-God centered ethic is a valid question, but goes beyond the scope of the OP. The ethical standard which an individual adhears is ultimately the hammer that shatters the OP argument because all those premises assume an unwritten premise, specifically, "All moral values are derived from God."
We know that assumption to be false from common experience. The better question to be asked is, "Are the moral values derived from a God Centered Ethic superior to all other ethical standards?"
When we answer that question we have a better understanding of ourselves and the Lord whom we worship.
Au contraire. The Biblical laws of morality are objective - they come from God, not man's subjective thinking. God's laws are for all people in all places now and forever more.
In contrast, man's subjective laws change like people change their underwear - prohibition, for example. Subjective morality changes over time and over cultures. There is nothing enduring that one can hang one's hat on for the next millennium.
Most, if not all, of God's moral laws also hold up under examination as being right and proper for the betterment of society. For instance, violate the admonitions against murder, adultery and thievery (etc.) and suffer the many consequences thereof.
If there is a God (and there is) it's either His way or the Highway to Hell. Let the unrepentant sinner beware.
From the OP
They only exist in God. And it could be argued He is both - wholly objective, and, wholly subjective, in His love.
They only exist in God. And it could be argued He is both - wholly objective, and, wholly subjective, in His love.
Who is doing the interpreting??? No man is justified by a law or a code of conduct. To do so is to set up our own righteousness...comparing ourselves with ourselves. There are indeed laws...but why do we need lawyers to sort them out??? As Christians we are called to eat from a different tree....the tree of life in Christ. His life keeps the laws of God and we don't need a proper behaviour conduct regime since we are walking in love.
Morality is for keeping evil men in check...only a human society that has no hope of human transformation clings to a moral code.
The Holy Spirit.
The Spirit "instructs" (Nehemiah 9:20).
The Spirit sends messengers (Isaiah 48:16).
The Spirit enabled Joseph to interpret Pharoah's dreams (Genesis 41:38).
The Spirit gives wisdom (Exodus 28:3; 31:1-6; 35:31).
The Holy Spirit is the "Spirit of Wisdom" (Isaiah 11:2).
He is the Spirit of Knowledge (Isaiah 11:2)
It was Jesus who said, in John 14:[sup]26 [/sup]But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Which by the way, eliminates any need for the hypothetical "Q" document. The Holy Spirit is Occam's Razor in that argument.
Praise the Lord Jesus!
Yes, God has written HIs laws on our heart and on our minds. Pretty much everyone alive today knows it's wrong to kill, still, lie, ect. even though they can become desensinsitized to breaking one of the laws,deep down they still know it's wrong.
Before the Holy Spirit came into the picture (as far as being a gift to man from the Father) at the Pentecost, not all men had these convictions but mostly only the Jews did because they had the law.
This is a much deeper subject than I'm willing to get into in this forum, but that is the just of it.
Before the Holy Spirit came into the picture (as far as being a gift to man from the Father) at the Pentecost, not all men had these convictions but mostly only the Jews did because they had the law.
This is a much deeper subject than I'm willing to get into in this forum, but that is the just of it.
Similar threads
