Once OSAS Always OSAS

PinSeeker · Aug 15, 2022

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith ~ more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire ~ may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen Him, you love Him. Though you do not now see Him, you believe in Him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
[1 Peter 1:3-9]

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
[1 John 1:9]

Our faith is not in our faith, nor in ourselves. God forbid both. But those who don't believe in our eternal security in Christ ~ with Whom our lives are hidden in God (Colossians 3:3) ~ fall into one or the other (or both) of those potholes.

Grace and peace to all.

bbyrd009 · Aug 15, 2022

Taken said:
Acts 20:
[32] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

The sanctification of a man is by, through, of Conversion.
The mans true oath of agreeing to accept the Lord’s Power to make a man set apart holy unto the Lord God.

Sanctify.

To set apart for sacred use; consecrate.

To make holy; purify.

To give religious sanction to, as with an oath or vow

really interesting, heard it all before many times of course as i am not some noob, not addressing the point at all though, see? You have taken the opportunity to embark upon some sermon/lecture apropos of nothing, that does not address the question, nor am i interested, with all due respect

Taken said:
A mans Life is a Journey, via, hearing, learning, believing the Word of God are personal free choices of a man. The continuing, or the deflecting are personal free choices of a man. The man freely choosing to lay down his life crucified with Jesus and be MADE by the Power of God, wholly, whole and holy are also personal free choices of a man.
The consequences for a mans choices are not secret.

you are actually reinforcing the point that it is a spiritual, rather than a literal resurrection, at least near as i can tell, and you are still not approaching the point, sorry. You are going off in every conceivable direction, splatter-shot, see, bc you cannot establish you point imo, no offense meant ok?

bbyrd009 · Aug 15, 2022

i guess “pastors” dont say “buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him” at baptisms anymore? Or is it ppl just ignore it now like they did back then? Or i mean do they hear it, and it just doesnt register? Or what?

Blue Dragonfly's · Aug 15, 2022

Davy said:
Yes, of course, "As we walk in the light..." like that says. But what happens when we don't... do that, and instead mess up?

And I can guarantee, we will still mess up after having believed on Him. Even Peter messed up when he separated himself from Gentile brethren when Peter's Jewish brethren from Jerusalem came for a visit, and Apostle Paul got all over him for it.

Likewise, Apostle Paul spent a lot of the meat of His Epistles with rebukes and warnings to the various Churches he was as overseer. In that same Galatians, in chapter 5, Paul also explained the difference between our 'walk', either by our flesh, or by The Spirit. And if we fall back to walking by our flesh, Paul showed that we are back under the law in that case.

So really, one needs to use common sense on this matter, and that's what the 1 John 1 Scripture is for, showing us that need to repent to Jesus when we discover future sin we may do. So no wonder Lord Jesus included the asking of forgiveness of sins in the prayer He showed us to pray per Luke 11.

Sure, we mess up because we're mortal beings with a human nature. Not a transcendent spiritual being experiencing the world and nature.

The difference as I see it between who we were when we were god's of our own life and direction it takes, focused on the things of the world because we believe that is all there is is, now when we make mistakes we realize the depth of that error. That which is 7n contrast to God's order of right living. And we are contrite.
The other difference is, those mistakes are never held against us as they were before.

Because before, our human nature was worshipped. The created revered itself and saw the world as that to be exploited to feed our carnal appetites.

Davy · Aug 15, 2022

Blue Dragonfly's said:
Sure, we mess up because we're mortal beings with a human nature. Not a transcendent spiritual being experiencing the world and nature.

The difference as I see it between who we were when we were god's of our own life and direction it takes, focused on the things of the world because we believe that is all there is is, now when we make mistakes we realize the depth of that error. That which is 7n contrast to God's order of right living. And we are contrite.
The other difference is, those mistakes are never held against us as they were before.

Because before, our human nature was worshipped. The created revered itself and saw the world as that to be exploited to feed our carnal appetites.

Before coming to Jesus Christ, we just did things in ignorance, as written. But after having believed on Him, our walk should be different, as we LEARN His will for us and try to abide by it. And during that walk... we discover at times, just like Apostle Paul said in Romans 7, that we often find ourselves doing exactly opposite of what we intended to do, because of our 'fleshy members'.

It is that situation we all have been subjected to with being born in the flesh, which is only of this present world time.

Now those who do not care to heed the warnings for the 'believer' that is written in God's Word, especially by those like Christ's Apostles, they show they really don't know what God's Will actually is a lot of the time; they're just going by 'feel'. If they heed The Holy Spirit in that they will be fine. But what if they do not always heed The Holy Spirit, and instead listen to their fleshy desires and lusts? What then? Just go about their business and don't think about doing the works of the flesh? Apostle Paul in Galatians 5 showed the danger in doing that.

In Galatians 5 Apostle Paul revealed that IF... we walk by The Spirit, then we are not under the law. So what's the opposite of that IF... we instead walk by our flesh? Walking by our flesh means putting ourselves back under the law. It's that simple. And Paul even revealed that those who walk by their flesh won't enter into the Kingdom of God (1 Timothy 1; 1 Corinthians 6; Galatians 5).

So those who are told that once they have believed on Jesus, that ALL... their future sins are forgiven even BEFORE they do them, what KIND of 'walk' does that promote? It promote a lack of concern for future sin, i.e. a lack of attention to HOW one walks.

Therefore, those who teach the OSAS doctrine in an absolute sense, and deny that we ever sin after believing on Jesus, and there is no further need for repentance of sin, those are actually being led astray by doctrines of the devil that have crept into the Church. And there are believers I have met that absolutely believe they have no need to ever repent of future sins, and even deny that they can... commit future sin. Well hello 1 John 1, which was obviously written for them.

Blue Dragonfly's · Aug 15, 2022

Davy said:
Before coming to Jesus Christ, we just did things in ignorance, as written. But after having believed on Him, our walk should be different, as we LEARN His will for us and try to abide by it. And during that walk... we discover at times, just like Apostle Paul said in Romans 7, that we often find ourselves doing exactly opposite of what we intended to do, because of our 'fleshy members'.

It is that situation we all have been subjected to with being born in the flesh, which is only of this present world time.

Now those who do not care to heed the warnings for the 'believer' that is written in God's Word, especially by those like Christ's Apostles, they show they really don't know what God's Will actually is a lot of the time; they're just going by 'feel'. If they heed The Holy Spirit in that they will be fine. But what if they do not always heed The Holy Spirit, and instead listen to their fleshy desires and lusts? What then? Just go about their business and don't think about doing the works of the flesh? Apostle Paul in Galatians 5 showed the danger in doing that.

In Galatians 5 Apostle Paul revealed that IF... we walk by The Spirit, then we are not under the law. So what's the opposite of that IF... we instead walk by our flesh? Walking by our flesh means putting ourselves back under the law. It's that simple. And Paul even revealed that those who walk by their flesh won't enter into the Kingdom of God (1 Timothy 1; 1 Corinthians 6; Galatians 5).

So those who are told that once they have believed on Jesus, that ALL... their future sins are forgiven even BEFORE they do them, what KIND of 'walk' does that promote? It promote a lack of concern for future sin, i.e. a lack of attention to HOW one walks.

Therefore, those who teach the OSAS doctrine in an absolute sense, and deny that we ever sin after believing on Jesus, and there is no further need for repentance of sin, those are actually being led astray by doctrines of the devil that have crept into the Church. And there are believers I have met that absolutely believe they have no need to ever repent of future sins, and even deny that they can... commit future sin. Well hello 1 John 1, which was obviously written for them.

Those who deny eternal salvation as Christians still stumble. We're human,still.

The difference between who we were before our redemption and coming to Christ, whomever we are, is that our stumble does not lead to condemnation as it did before.

We are saved eternally. Our sins are under the blood and God remembers them no more.

Thos w ho ate eternally saved will never be lost by Jesus.
Those who ate on Christ do not make a habit of sinning. If they do, they do not know him.

Even though we will stumble as the eternally redeemed 7n Christ. Those though who claim to know Christ yet their behavior does not change are not in Christ. And he does not know them.

Those people do not invalidate the covenant. Faith and Salvation are a free irrevocable gift of God. We've nothing to do with attaining that. Which is why we cannot boast.

Which is why we cannot say eternal salvation is a false doctrine. Because it is the free irrevocable gift from God.

Davy · Aug 15, 2022

Blue Dragonfly's said:
Those who deny eternal salvation as Christians still stumble. We're human,still.

The difference between who we were before our redemption and coming to Christ, whomever we are, is that our stumble does not lead to condemnation as it did before.

We are saved eternally. Our sins are under the blood and God remembers them no more.

Let me stop you right there.

Have you never read what Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 7 about certain 'believers' on Him?

Matt 7:20-23
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?"
23 And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."
KJV

Those are about believers on Him, having done those works in Christ.

But notice they are rejected by Him because of their having worked iniquity. (He is pointing to the day of His future coming with those who seek to enter into His supper then.)

So what's the difference with their "iniquity", especially since those did many wonderful works in His name?

We all mess up at times even after having believed on Him and did works in Him. Even in Galatians 2 Peter sinned against his Gentile believing brethren, and we know Jesus has already promised him a position upon a throne in His future Kingdom to reign over one of the 12 tribes.

So what's the difference with these which Lord Jesus will say to, "depart from Me, ye that work iniquity"?

Helen · Aug 15, 2022

@Davy Quote -
<EACH person, individually, MUST believe on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection in order for their PREVIOUS sins to be remitted.>

I’ve often mused on that in my old age.
Sin came on all ( without our choice) through Adam …

“For God so loved the world “

“As in Adam all died , even so in Christ shall all be made alive “
1 Cor 15 22

Blue Dragonfly's · Aug 15, 2022

Davy said:
Let me stop you right there.

Have you never read what Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 7 about certain 'believers' on Him?

Matt 7:20-23
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?"
23 And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."
KJV

Those are about believers on Him, having done those works in Christ.

But notice they are rejected by Him because of their having worked iniquity. (He is pointing to the day of His future coming with those who seek to enter into His supper then.)

So what's the difference with their "iniquity", especially since those did many wonderful works in His name?

We all mess up at times even after having believed on Him and did works in Him. Even in Galatians 2 Peter sinned against his Gentile believing brethren, and we know Jesus has already promised him a position upon a throne in His future Kingdom to reign over one of the 12 tribes.

So what's the difference with these which Lord Jesus will say to, "depart from Me, ye that work iniquity"?

You cannot presume to stop me.

I speak of the gospel that is eternal.

Take care.

farouk · Aug 15, 2022

Heart2Soul said:
Salvation is a gift from God. All we must do is receive it. There were no instructions given at the time it was received except only to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and was sent to take away our sins by becoming the living, holy sacrifice sacrifice necessary for the remission of sin.
When Jesus died and took the sins of the world upon himself, becoming sin who knew no sin, He included everyone who received the gift of salvation. Even future believers....and all sins is all sins of the world...even before they ha

@Heart2Soul Faith is indeed the key - "by faith" is indeed a key phrase; Hebrews 11; Ephesians 2.8.

robert derrick · Aug 15, 2022

Michiah-Imla said:
Sin comes from lust, not the Devil. The Devil can only succeed if the lust to sin is still present in a person.

“…when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin…” (James 1:15)

A person born of God (born again) has crucified the flesh with its desires and lusts:

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24)

Which is why this is written:

“Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin…” (1 John 3:9)

Those who say they have no sin are the lost who haven’t been born again. Because:

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)

Thanks for the correction. I agree.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

As Scripture says, a person's lust is his own, and the devil can only send the fiery dart into the mind, to tempt any lust that can be enticed by it.

Lust is the dry grass of the soul, that the fiery dart ignites. No lust in the heart, then the dart is easily quenched from the mind by faith.

Excellent. Thanks much.

robert derrick · Aug 15, 2022

devin553344 said:
I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The key word of course is the sinner that repents.

No one sinning with the devil has any fellowship nor grace with Christ. God is not a respecter of persons. If any man is sinning, then he has an advocate with the Father to repent of sinning.

His mercy is not to give up on the sinner, but to continue drawing the sinner to repentance.

If not, He has no choice to let the unrepentant sinner be destroyed both body and soul in hell.

He also gives up on some sinners, which is called a reprobate mind, where God is not even drawing them to confess sinning and repent.

That however can be at a given time, but is not necessarily for life. It only means, that the sinner cannot confess from the heart with godly sorrow and so be forgiven. God is chastising them with time to understand forgiveness is not presumed, because confession is only by grace.

I've been there before and do not desire to return to it by presumptive sinning.

robert derrick · Aug 15, 2022

bbyrd009 said:
well no, but you could have asked for a list right, since it might not be as i wish at all?
And i mean who knows, nothing on the list might apply to you, or none of them might even be sins iyo, etc. It would strictly be an opinion, eh? That you dont wanna hear

ego is a funny thing innit

It's not your list I care about, but only when you say 'we'.

I'm not you, nor do I argue about it.

robert derrick · Aug 15, 2022

Helen said:
Thanks for yours.

You hit the nail on the head when you said , he was still a son…but had lost his inheritance .

As I see the Bible from beginning to end , that is what it is all about!

Do we love the Father enough to deny our own life and have His in the Kingdom?

So often when I’ve got disappointed in God…be it failed healing, the loss of a loved one far too early etc…I hear the Fathers voice whisper to me…” Am I enough ? “
HE IS our inheritance and our final great reward . Nothing is worth losing that.

I wonder how many of us have sold our birthright for a moment of indulging the flesh, as Esau did.
That is what has kept me on the straight and narrow these 58 years of walking with Him.

As I’ve said so often , there will be many levels in heaven … I don’t like Rick Joiner much at all…but one line in his book stuck with me …he described his vision of the last great gathering ..… millions of ‘people’ .
He’d come in at the back door of this Gathering with the angels guide.
He spoke to the ones standing at the back…they told him that they were among the foolish virgins group…..saying -“ We can hear His voice , but we can never quite see His face. “

Food for deep thought .
Our salvation cost Jesus everything. In return , what price are we willing to pay to live in His glorious Presence?

Selah.

blessings …H

I agree.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

It's only if you say Once a Son Always a Son, as though that son can never wake up in hell, is it false OSAS.

Once Saved Always Saved is only true, if a saved son can wake up in hell, and still be a saved son.

robert derrick · Aug 15, 2022

Helen said:
@robert derrick

A quick P.S.

For those who “ rejoice in grace while continuing to deliberately indulge in sin” — they could never have really had a true revelation of what Grace cost to the Son.

Nor what grace is for: help to endure temptation, without sinning.

The grace of God is not help not to be judged while sinning.

Taken · Aug 15, 2022

bbyrd009 said:
you are actually reinforcing the point that it is a spiritual, rather than a literal resurrection,

Resurrection of manKIND IS literal.
The Raising Up is via God who IS Spirit.

at least near as i can tell, and you are still not approaching the point, sorry.

If you know not the beginning, the ending will not makes sense to you.

Ecc. 1:
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

no offense meant ok?

Ditto.

Taken · Aug 15, 2022

robert derrick said:
It's only if you say Once a Son Always a Son, as though that son can never wake up in hell, is it false OSAS.

Once Saved Always Saved is only true, if a saved son can wake up in hell, and still be a saved son.

So weird to twist what Salvations means then disagree with it!

...a saved son can wake up in hell...

WEIRD!

robert derrick · Aug 15, 2022

Davy said:
The simplicity of 1 John 1 is that those in Christ are to repent to Him 'when'... we slip up and do future sin, not 'if', but 'when', because we cannot be our 'own' Christ and without sin like Lord Jesus, but only 'counted' as perfect through Faith and repentance. No need to try and beat that into some other meaning, it's simple. It's like Paul said in Galatians 3:22, the Scriptures has concluded all under sin so that the Promise by Faith of Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

And so, you default to typical OSAS:

1. Sinning with the devil is 'slipping up'.

2. The righteous in Christ Jesus are their 'own Christ'.
That is true of OSAS. A Christ and gospel for sinners to be saved while stilling sinning with the devil. I mean 'slipping up'.

3. Including yourself as still being one of the all concluded under sin, which was before the cross and resurrection of Christ.
You also like quoting for yourself how none are righteous, no not one. Which is Scripture for them that say no to God.

4. And finally openly contradicting Scripture to make sure when you sin, can never be replaced with if you sin.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

So long as you are willing to openly contradict Scripture, there is no more chance to agree, and no amount of argument on this point will matter.

Helen · Aug 15, 2022

robert derrick said:
And so, you default to typical OSAS:

1. Sinning with the devil is 'slipping up'.

2. The righteous in Christ Jesus are their 'own Christ'.
That is true of OSAS. A Christ and gospel for sinners to be saved while stilling sinning with the devil. I mean 'slipping up'.

3. Including yourself as still being one of the all concluded under sin, which was before the cross and resurrection of Christ.
You also like quoting for yourself how none are righteous, no not one. Which is Scripture for them that say no to God.

4. And finally openly contradicting Scripture to make sure when you sin, can never be replaced with if you sin.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

So long as you are willing to openly contradict Scripture, there is no more chance to agree, and no amount of argument on this point will matter.

Just saying…I can see no victory, no joy, and no Glory to the Father in what you preach. It’s all doom and gloom …
…you somehow think that you are doing God a favour in beating your anti victory drum. You are deluded.
Time will prove who has been on the Lords side , and who has not .

Ex 32 26 “ Moses said - who is on the Lords side , let him come …”

bbyrd009 · Aug 16, 2022

robert derrick said:
It's not your list I care about, but only when you say 'we'.

I'm not you, nor do I argue about it.

ok then, you

Once OSAS Always OSAS

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