Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

Rach1370 · May 27, 2012

williemac said:
I have to jump in here. I can scarcely believe my eyes. This truly demonstrates a failure to grasp the concept. The comparison to the way we reward our children cannot apply. The very purpose of salvation is to bring people into the family of God. Salvation is not about God rewarding His children. It is about adopting those to become His children.

For example, hear the word of God in John 1:12..." For as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God".

I will further challange this reply by stating the obvious; If one could deserve salvation by keeping the law, then that person has become his own savior. He then has something of which to boast. " I got what I earned" ..is the heart's boast in keeping the law. How does the handle..."humble servant" come out of this mindset?

In no uncertain terms will I boldly and zealously insist....Salvation cannot come through the law. In fact, it will be in danger of being denied the person who is attempting to be justified by law. There is none righteous. Keeping the law cannot produce life or righteousness. Both of these are offered freely by God. It is an insult to the Spirit of grace to refuse the offer and opt for the avenue of earning these through works.

No doubt all the passages that prove these things have been already shared on this thread. So just whom is it that is ignoring the scripture? " Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness" The promises were made. They are yes and amen. God is good. Life is a free gift. Believe it or not. Accept the gift or not.
In His love and grace, Howie

Amen!

Sabitarian said:
richard,
The question is relevent, however you as a follower of Papal doctrine you do not see it, for you are blinded by your doctrine. In none of your scriptures do you find where God has told you that He will allow for you to not follow His Word and receive salvation. That is the main issue here as why do you go to Church in the first place. If you do not follow the laws of God Given from the beginning and ending at the end, why would any expect to receive salvation? Do you reward your children for bad behavior?
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

You seem to believe that even the Protestants are followers of 'Papal' doctrine. Can I ask what 'church' you belong to? You don't believe in the Holy Spirit, and you believe that to be saved one must trust in his own ability to follow laws...laws the bible tells us no one can uphold by their own righteousness. So again, my question to you is this: exactly what do you call yourself, because you're certainly not Christian.

JLB · May 27, 2012

Sabitarian said:
richard,
The question is relevent, however you as a follower of Papal doctrine you do not see it, for you are blinded by your doctrine. In none of your scriptures do you find where God has told you that He will allow for you to not follow His Word and receive salvation. That is the main issue here as why do you go to Church in the first place. If you do not follow the laws of God Given from the beginning and ending at the end, why would any expect to receive salvation? Do you reward your children for bad behavior?
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

humble servant of the Lord God Most High

What do you call "your" Lord?

Thanks, JLB

richard79408 · May 27, 2012

Sabitarian, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,
you said,
richard,
The question is relevent, however you as a follower of Papal doctrine you do not see it, for you are blinded by your doctrine.

Folks have pointed out the error of your thinking-so why not take what they have said and what you are trying to say and add the scriptures to the mix and see where you end up?

When folks disagree with you--why do you accuse them of being guilty of following Papal doctrine which most understand as not being biblical.
The RCC is very much like the scribes and pharisees in that they just keep adding and adding to the word of God and then go about making it offically part of the word of God.
you said

In none of your scriptures do you find where God has told you that He will allow for you to not follow His Word and receive salvation.

Excuse me for asking--from what I am reading, is this what you are about--
Look--it is not on my head or even my shoulders that you cannot rightly divide the word of truth.

Everyone literally everyone today--under no circumstances can find God under the Mosaic law.
That law well let me allow Paul to tell you --
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
That law--which by the way was never ever ever given to you by God--only to the children of Israel--

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

God did not give this law to anyone else ever!!!
So you or anyone else--who tries to maintain that one can keep that law--can be saved under that law--you have to ignore the clear and plain teachings of the texts in order to insert your own version..
All I can tell you is this--you have to paddle your own canoe--If you put it in the wrong place you are not going to get the results you want.

you said,

That is the main issue here as why do you go to Church in the first place. If you do not follow the laws of God Given from the beginning and ending at the end, why would any expect to receive salvation?

Because I know enough not to be under the Mosaic covenant which was never given to me or to any other group of folks on the face of the earth then or now.
We are to serve a living God--under the covenant began on Pentecost--
Under that Mosaic law--your sins are never ever forgiven...Did you know that? You should if you are going to attempt to be redeemed by it..
Well, now back to regular discussions of covenants--
Richard79408

What exactly do we know about the conditions in that place known as Hell?

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

And these shall go away — these “cursed” ones. Sentence, it should seem, was first pronounced - in the hearing of the wicked - upon the righteous, who thereupon sit as assessors in the judgment upon the wicked (1Co_6:2); but sentence is first executed, it should seem, upon the wicked, in the sight of the righteous - whose glory will thus not be beheld by the wicked, while their descent into “their own place” will be witnessed by the righteous, as Bengel notes.
into everlasting punishment — or, as in Mat_25:41, “everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” Compare Mat_13:42; 2Th_1:9, etc. This is said to be “prepared for the devil and his angels,” because they were “first in transgression.” But both have one doom, because one unholy character.
but the righteous into life eternal — that is, “life everlasting.” The word in both clauses, being in the original the same, should have been the same in the translation also. Thus the decisions of this awful day will be final, irreversible, unending.

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
We see that the result is everlasting and that it is a place of torement and pain.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom — to which they never really belonged. They usurped their place and name and outward privileges; but “the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners [abide] in the congregation of the righteous” (Psa_1:5).
all things that offend — all those who have proved a stumbling-block to others
and them which do iniquity — The former class, as the worst, are mentioned first.

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire — rather, “the furnace of fire”:
there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth — What terrific strength of language - the “casting” or “flinging” expressive of indignation, abhorrence, contempt (compare Psa_9:17; Dan_12:2): “the furnace of fire” denoting the fierceness of the torment: the “wailing” signifying the anguish this causes; while the “gnashing of teeth” is a graphic way of expressing the despair in which its remedilessness issues (see Mat_8:12)!

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

for ever and ever — Greek, “unto ages of ages.”

no rest day nor night — Contrast the very different sense in which the same is said of the four living creatures in heaven, “They rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy”; yet they do “rest” in another sense; they rest from sin and sorrow, weariness and weakness, trial and temptation (Rev_14:13);

the lost have no rest from sin and Satan, terror, torment, and remorse.
God is clearly pointing out the pain of hell so we can choose to stay out of it. Yet Hell is more than just a place of pain, it is also a place of darkness.

Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And cast ye — cast ye out.

the unprofitable servant — the useless servant, that does his Master no service.

into outer darkness — the darkness which is outside. On this expression see on Mat_22:13.

there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth — See on Mat_13:42.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

if — The apodosis or consequent member of the sentence is not expressed, but is virtually contained in 2Pe_2:9. If God in past time has punished the ungodly and saved His people, He will be sure to do so also in our days (compare end of 2Pe_2:3).

angels — the highest of intelligent creatures (compare with this verse, Jud_1:6), yet not spared when they sinned.

hell — Greek, “Tartarus”: nowhere else in New Testament or the Septuagint: equivalent to the usual Greek, “Gehenna.” Not inconsistent with 1Pe_5:8; for though their final doom is hell, yet for a time they are permitted to roam beyond it in “the darkness of this world.” Slaves of Tartarus (called “the abyss,” or “deep,” Luk_8:31; “the bottomless pit,” Rev_9:11) may also come upon earth. Step by step they are given to Tartarus, until at last they shall be wholly bound to it.

delivered — as the judge delivers the condemned prisoner to the officers (Rev_20:2).

into chains — (Jud_1:6). The oldest manuscripts read, “dens,” as Alford translates: the Greek, however, may, in Hellenistic Greek, mean “chains,” as Jude expresses it. They are “reserved” unto hell’s “mist of darkness” as their final “judgment” or doom, and meanwhile their exclusion from the light of heaven is begun. So the ungodly were considered as virtually “in prison,” though at large on the earth, from the moment that God’s sentence went forth, though not executed till one hundred twenty years after.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat_22:1-14. Parable of the marriage of the king’s son.

This is a different parable from that of the Great Supper, in Luk_14:15, etc., and is recorded by Matthew alone.

Remember--God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all..

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
To be separated from God means being in the "OUTER DARKNESS" forever!! Frightening, painful, desolate darkness..That is hell.
I know that there are many who are not very happy with even thinking about hell..but we need to--and, it is one very negative subject that is found in both covenants.
Jesus as the Jewish Messiah was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel--Jesus speaks to that lost generation a lot about Hell and what it is about and how one gets there.

In the new Covenant beginning in Acts 2 through Revelation--you will note verses that also refer to this horrible terrible inescapable place of torement.

To be continued

Sabitarian · May 27, 2012

I realize that none of you understand me, but I am just the messenge not the message. Grace is for those who in their own capacity have gone as far as they can in their own power and fall short of His perfection. No, we can not earn salvation, however we can strive to do His will to the best that we can in order that he might grant us salvation. As the name implies I am a Sabbitarian, meaning that I follow all of the laws of God, the Sabbath and the Holy days none of which have been done away with as Christ Himself attests to in Matthew 5:17-18. None of the Sabbaths have been done away with and to add to scripture in worshiping on Christmas and Easter is to earn the punishment in revelation 22:18 and to take away from scripture is to earn the forfiture of Revelation 22:19. We are told many times in the Book to stick strictly to the words of the Book and not to add to nor take away from them. Christanity by following Papal doctrine have done both and the fall spoken of in Revelation is by Christians who profess to being Protestants, as the Catholics have already fallen by this time. Please reread the entire Book from cover to cover and do it as a child would with no preconceived notions and you will find the answers that you need so badly to understand.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
ps I serve YEHWAH

richard79408 · May 27, 2012

Sabitarian, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,
Actually most of us do-and, yes, we do understand grace--you are a tad works oriented and probably don't realize it--
you said--we can strive to do His will to the best that we can in order that he might grant us salvation
It is really pretty simple follow the first example of conversion in the New Covenant. We can see that what they did worked--
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
Act 2:40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
Act 2:41 They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added in that day about three thousand souls.
I have no earthly idea as to who convinced you that most of us are following the RCC but we are not.
by the way your definition of grace is not the best one in scripture--Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Best wishes in your continued studies of scripture

Richard79408

Rach1370 · May 27, 2012

Sabitarian said:
I realize that none of you understand me, but I am just the messenge not the message. Grace is for those who in their own capacity have gone as far as they can in their own power and fall short of His perfection. No, we can not earn salvation, however we can strive to do His will to the best that we can in order that he might grant us salvation. As the name implies I am a Sabbitarian, meaning that I follow all of the laws of God, the Sabbath and the Holy days none of which have been done away with as Christ Himself attests to in Matthew 5:17-18. None of the Sabbaths have been done away with and to add to scripture in worshiping on Christmas and Easter is to earn the punishment in revelation 22:18 and to take away from scripture is to earn the forfiture of Revelation 22:19. We are told many times in the Book to stick strictly to the words of the Book and not to add to nor take away from them. Christanity by following Papal doctrine have done both and the fall spoken of in Revelation is by Christians who profess to being Protestants, as the Catholics have already fallen by this time. Please reread the entire Book from cover to cover and do it as a child would with no preconceived notions and you will find the answers that you need so badly to understand.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
ps I serve YEHWAH

Can I ask how you explain this passage, then?

16 Therefore, don’t let anyone judge you in regard to food and drink or in the matter of a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of what was to come; the substance is the Messiah. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on ascetic practices and the worship of angels, claiming access to a visionary realm and inflated without cause by his unspiritual mind. 19 He doesn’t hold on to the head, from whom the whole body, nourished and held together by its ligaments and tendons, develops with growth from God. 20 If you died with the Messiah to the elemental forces of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations: 21 “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”? 22 All these regulations refer to what is destroyed by being used up; they are commands and doctrines of men. 23 Although these have a reputation of wisdom by promoting ascetic practices, humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence. (Col 2:16-23)

JLB · May 28, 2012

Sabitarian said:
I realize that none of you understand me, but I am just the messenge not the message. Grace is for those who in their own capacity have gone as far as they can in their own power and fall short of His perfection. No, we can not earn salvation, however we can strive to do His will to the best that we can in order that he might grant us salvation. As the name implies I am a Sabbitarian, meaning that I follow all of the laws of God, the Sabbath and the Holy days none of which have been done away with as Christ Himself attests to in Matthew 5:17-18. None of the Sabbaths have been done away with and to add to scripture in worshiping on Christmas and Easter is to earn the punishment in revelation 22:18 and to take away from scripture is to earn the forfiture of Revelation 22:19. We are told many times in the Book to stick strictly to the words of the Book and not to add to nor take away from them. Christanity by following Papal doctrine have done both and the fall spoken of in Revelation is by Christians who profess to being Protestants, as the Catholics have already fallen by this time. Please reread the entire Book from cover to cover and do it as a child would with no preconceived notions and you will find the answers that you need so badly to understand.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
ps I serve YEHWAH

Never heard of YEHWAH. Maybe you mean YHWH. To add letters to the Holy Name is to invite the punishment in revelation 22:18.

I call Him Jesus, as His Word teaches. The Lord of the old testament is revealed in the new testament as Jesus.

As it is written - Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God The Father!

Thanks, JLB

Rach said:
Can I ask how you explain this passage, then?

16 Therefore, don’t let anyone judge you in regard to food and drink or in the matter of a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of what was to come; the substance is the Messiah. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on ascetic practices and the worship of angels, claiming access to a visionary realm and inflated without cause by his unspiritual mind. 19 He doesn’t hold on to the head, from whom the whole body, nourished and held together by its ligaments and tendons, develops with growth from God. 20 If you died with the Messiah to the elemental forces of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations: 21 “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”? 22 All these regulations refer to what is destroyed by being used up; they are commands and doctrines of men. 23 Although these have a reputation of wisdom by promoting ascetic practices, humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence. (Col 2:16-23)

He has no explanation for this scripture except to say you are taking it out of context. I have this same discussion with him in the Sabbath thread..

xBluxTunicx82 · May 28, 2012

Context is probably one of the least cared for things today. Its a pick your own adventure for most people out there. And just for the record, in Hebrew, the vowels are only for speaking. So technically, this post would look like this if english were hebrew

Cntxt s prbbl n f th lst crd fr thngs tdy. ts pck yr wn dvntr fr mst ppl t thr. nd jst fr th rcrd, n Hbrw, th vwls r nly fr spkng. S tchncll, ths pst wld lk lk ths f nglsh wr hbrw

Yahweh wanted His children to know His name or it wouldn't have been replaced with LORD over 6000 times! And it was prophesied that true Israel would have His name removed from their lips until a later time, which we live in now.

jiggyfly · May 28, 2012

Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. Gal. 3:19

Sabitarian · May 29, 2012

Jiggyfly,
The first sacrifice for sin was made by Christ in the Garden, when He made skins to cover Adam and Eve. There is no remission for sin without the shedding of Blood, in this case a clean animal most probably a sheep. Post 209 you state that the law was only given to last until Christ, so now you have no laws to follow? If there is no law there is no recognition of sin and no possibility of sinning as transgretion of the law is sin. Without law there can be no transgretion of the law, thus no sin, how nice for you, those thru time have all had to keep the law and now you are lawless. Adam broke the law and Noah kept the law as did Abraham and now you have done away with all of the laws of God. If you say the laws of God are no more you are calling Christ a Liar as He tell us He did away with none of the law. Matthew 5:17-18. "Not one Jot of Title will pass away from the law" these were the two least characters of Hebrew writting and none of them will be done away with, so how is it that all of the laws have passed away or been hung on the cross if not one jot or title have passed away? You are truely a stiff necked people!
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

ps How do you explain that Christ kept the laws?

mark s · May 29, 2012

Sabitarian said:
ps How do you explain that Christ kept the laws?

If I may jump in here . . .

Sabitarian,

How do you explain that you do not keep the Laws? Or are you saying that you keep the entire Law?

Love in Christ,
Mark

JLB · May 29, 2012

James 2:10

10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

veteran · May 31, 2012

I think the problem is not understanding the ultimate purpose for God's laws and how they are applied under Christ per The New Covenant. One thing is for certain, all of God's law is not dead today, only those parts in the law which Christ nailed to His cross are dead today. The blood ordinances and religious ritual laws are what our Lord Jesus nailed to His cross.

God's health laws certainly are not dead today either. Yet the keeping of them is not... a Salvation issue, it's a health issue.

Likewise with allowing your farm fields to rest every seven years is not a Salvation issue either, it is a soil issue and a health issue. Farmers try to get around that by using crop rotation and pumping chemicals into the soil. But other farmers will leave a field alone for a year or two and then come back to plant and have a good crop there.

Likewise with not mixing clothing of different material, it's not a Salvation issue, it's a health issue. Some are allergic to certain clothing materials which man has developed. That's why many have sought to go back to wearing plain cotton.

Using running water to clean with isn't a Salvation issue either, yet every civilized nation seeks to have plumbing with running water in their homes. Can you imagine a home with no plumbing? Might as well live in a tent in the wilderness.

God said He would write His laws in our hearts and minds per The New Covenant. That's by The Holy Spirit working (Heb.8 & 10).

Per Ezek.44, one of things His elect priests are going to be teaching His people during Christ's Millennium is the difference between the clean and the unclean, so His laws are not... simply going to go away. The laws that our Lord Jesus did not do away with have to do with how He setup His creation of this earth. They're eternal laws like His Moral law of The Ten Commandments.

Go ask Gentile doctors what is healthy for us to eat and what isn't, and you'll discover most of them will unintentionally recommend food that aligns with God's health laws. Lobster, crab, shrimp, and shellfish will not be on their list (and I love lobster and crab by the way).

For The Gospel's sake when we get invited to dinner by the unbeliever, and get served alligator tail, etc., eat asking no questions.

1 Tim 4:3-5
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
(KJV)

I know some will bring the above Scripture out as soon I've said all this, but look at the condition Paul said there in bold. Which meats did God create to be received with thanksgiving? Not meats that He deemed unclean. Still, it's not a Salvation issue, it's a health issue. Even meats give some people health problems.

So I'm not going to judge you if you eat pork, or shellfish, catfish, sucker-fish, alligator, turtle, escargo, rattlesnake, Twinkies, Little Debbies, etc. And please don't judge me if I eat those things (alligator tail ain't bad tastin' either). But let's not lie to ourselves in thinking those things won't affect our bodily health, for they will.

JLB · May 31, 2012

veteran said:
I think the problem is not understanding the ultimate purpose for God's laws and how they are applied under Christ per The New Covenant. One thing is for certain, all of God's law is not dead today, only those parts in the law which Christ nailed to His cross are dead today. The blood ordinances and religious ritual laws are what our Lord Jesus nailed to His cross.

God's health laws certainly are not dead today either. Yet the keeping of them is not... a Salvation issue, it's a health issue.

Likewise with allowing your farm fields to rest every seven years is not a Salvation issue either, it is a soil issue and a health issue. Farmers try to get around that by using crop rotation and pumping chemicals into the soil. But other farmers will leave a field alone for a year or two and then come back to plant and have a good crop there.

Likewise with not mixing clothing of different material, it's not a Salvation issue, it's a health issue. Some are allergic to certain clothing materials which man has developed. That's why many have sought to go back to wearing plain cotton.

Using running water to clean with isn't a Salvation issue either, yet every civilized nation seeks to have plumbing with running water in their homes. Can you imagine a home with no plumbing? Might as well live in a tent in the wilderness.

God said He would write His laws in our hearts and minds per The New Covenant. That's by The Holy Spirit working (Heb.8 & 10).

Per Ezek.44, one of things His elect priests are going to be teaching His people during Christ's Millennium is the difference between the clean and the unclean, so His laws are not... simply going to go away. The laws that our Lord Jesus did not do away with have to do with how He setup His creation of this earth. They're eternal laws like His Moral law of The Ten Commandments.

Go ask Gentile doctors what is healthy for us to eat and what isn't, and you'll discover most of them will unintentionally recommend food that aligns with God's health laws. Lobster, crab, shrimp, and shellfish will not be on their list (and I love lobster and crab by the way).

For The Gospel's sake when we get invited to dinner by the unbeliever, and get served alligator tail, etc., eat asking no questions.

1 Tim 4:3-5
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
(KJV)

I know some will bring the above Scripture out as soon I've said all this, but look at the condition Paul said there in bold. Which meats did God create to be received with thanksgiving? Not meats that He deemed unclean. Still, it's not a Salvation issue, it's a health issue. Even meats give some people health problems.

So I'm not going to judge you if you eat pork, or shellfish, catfish, sucker-fish, alligator, turtle, escargo, rattlesnake, Twinkies, Little Debbies, etc. And please don't judge me if I eat those things (alligator tail ain't bad tastin' either). But let's not lie to ourselves in thinking those things won't affect our bodily health, for they will.

Genesis 26:4-5

4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

I believe a study of the commandments and laws that Abraham walked in would go along way to clarifying this issue. The Lord chose this man to make covenant with him. It is this covenant that we are a part of today as believers. So it would make sense to "review" what Laws and commandments and statutes that he kept, 430 years before The Law of Moses.

What you will find is, the "key" is relationship! Abraham obeyed God. What did he obey? Walk before Me and be blameless. That is to say - Walk in My presence or Walk with Me. Relationship! Abraham obeyed My voice! The new testament says it this way. As many as are led by The Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.

Jesus said it this way - John 5:39-40

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Trying to keep The Law of Moses, no matter how well intentioned is an extreme. That extreme would be labeled "Self Righteousness! That would be called "Looking to the right".

Disregarding all of God's laws, saying that they are all done away with at the cross, would be another extreme labeled as "Lawlessness". That would be called "Looking to the left".

We have been called to be led by The Spirit, not turning aside to the left or to the right, but rather be those that pursue Him!

Hebrews 13:8-16

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. 9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them. 10 We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. 11 For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned outside the camp. 12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate. 13 Therefore let us go forth to Him, outside the camp, bearing His reproach. 14 For here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come. 15 Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name. 16 But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other ; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them. Ecclesiastes 7:18 NAS

Thanks, JLB

mark s · Jun 1, 2012

God's Laws were not nailed to the cross - your "handwritten certificate of debt", your cheirographon was what was nailed to the cross.

He became sin, Who knew no sin. Your debt to the Law was was nailed to the cross.

Check it out . . .

Love in Christ,
Mark

romans7 · Jun 2, 2012

The bible makes it clear that the law was temporary. It is called "The ministry of death". Jesus came to deal with all our issues concerning "the law', which has a wider meaning than just the law of Moses. In those wider terms, it involves the way we all live in our thinking in the way of the flesh, such as the common notion of "pay-back", which is just one example of he kind of thinking which emerges from the sinful mind. Our minds need renewal so they operate on the higher level of the Spirit which is tied to a clean conscience through the cleansing provided through Christ. "Law" is closely connected with sin and death. "The Spirit" is connected with life.

Sabitarian · Jun 2, 2012

MarkS,
I keep the Sabbath and the Holy Days, but the sacrifices that were begun from the time that Adam sinned were fulfilled by Christ at the cross when the veil was torn from top to bottom. This veil was not a wimpy thing as no man could have torn it in half. #211
#215
Your debt to the scrirficial law was paid. And the rules that were in place while God was their law giver have been replaced by modern laws of men, which are the color of law and not actual law. You will not understand so do not worry your self over what you do not know. True Christian will know and understand though.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

0bed · Jun 3, 2012

Here is some of the teaching of Jesus, although even following it to the letter would not save us. Salvation is of the Lord.

The Golden Rule
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

The other commandments of Jesus
1. "Forgive everybody of all their offences against you."
2. "You must be born again."
3. "Abide in me, and let me abide in you."
4. "Let people see your good works." (do not hide your light under a basket.)
5. "End disputes quickly."
6. "Whatever causes you to sin, get rid of it."
7. "Do not swear oaths at all."
8. "Do not return offence for offence." (Turn the other cheek.)
9. "Give what people ask of you, and give more than is required." (Go the extra mile.)
10. "Love your enemies and those who work against you."
11. "Give to the poor to please god, not to gain approval from other people."
12. "Pray privately and simply, not to impress other people."
13. "Make your prayers be like the Lord’s Prayer."
14. "When you fast, do it secretly, not for show."
15. "Store up your treasures in heaven, not on earth."
16. "Do not worry about your material needs."
17. "Do not worry about the future."
18. "Make god your highest priority, and he will take care of all your needs."
19. "Do not judge other people." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
20. "Do not give holy things to dogs or cast your pearls before swine."
21. "Ask god for whatever you want to have." (seek, and ye shall find.)
22. "Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, comfort those in distress."
23. "Follow the narrow path to life." (enter by the narrow gate.)
24. "Beware of false prophets."
25. "Exercise power over unclean spirits."
26. "Love little children, do not despise them."
27. "Do not take the titles 'master' or 'father' for yourself."
28. "Resolve disputes in an orderly way, like this . . . "
29. "Do not oppose other believers in Christ who are not in your group."
30. "Have total faith in god for everything."
31. "Be like the good Samaritan." (go, and do likewise.)
32. "Love other people as i have loved you"
33. "Eat bread and drink wine in remembrance of me."
34. "Wash one another's feet."
35. "Be merciful."
36. "Go and teach all nations, baptising them."
37. "Keep my commandments."
38. "Be prepared for your master to return."

Sabitarian · Jun 3, 2012

Obed,
The other Commandments given by Jesus are:
Ex 20:1-17
20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
KJV
Humble servant of the Lord God Most High

JLB · Jun 3, 2012

Sabitarian said:
Obed,
The other Commandments given by Jesus are:
Ex 20:1-17
20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
KJV
Humble servant of the Lord God Most High

How about this one - Walk before Me and be blameless.

Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

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