Explaining the baptism with the Holy Spirit

Waiting for the second shoe to drop... (and remember, all shoes have tongues...)

John Zain said:

When one is born again (from above), the Holy Spirit comes INSIDE (7 passages)
“… that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth … you know Him,
for He dwells with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17)
“But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,
if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.” (Romans 8:9)
“But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you
… through His Spirit who dwells in you.” (Romans 8:11)
“Do you not know that you are the temple of God
and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” (1 Corinthians 3:16)
“And because you are sons, God has sent forth
the Spirit of His Son into your hearts …” (Galatians 4:6)
“That good thing which was committed to you,
keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.” (2 Timothy 1:14)
“And by this we know that He abides in us,
by the Spirit whom He has given us.” (1 John 3:24)
But, this has nothing to do with being “filled” with the Holy Spirit.

When one is baptized with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit comes UPON (7 passages)

“Behold, I (will) send the promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem
until you are endued with (spiritual) power from on high.” (Luke 24:49)

Luke gives more details about the above verse:
“He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father
… you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit … you shall receive (spiritual) power when the
Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:4-8)

“When the Day of Pentecost had fully come … Then there appeared to them divided tongues,
as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit
and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” (Acts 2:1-4)

“… the Holy Spirit fell upon all those (Gentiles) who heard the word
… the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
For they (Peter and his companions) heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter asked, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be
baptized (in water) who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’ ” (Acts 10:44-48)

Peter recalls the experience with the Gentiles above:
“… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (the Gentiles), as upon us (the Jews) at the beginning.
Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water,
but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ … God gave them the same gift
as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ …” (Acts 11:15-17)

“… they (the Ephesian disciples) were (water) baptized in the
name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands upon them,
the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied …” (Acts 19:5-6)

Normally, manifestations confirm the baptism with the Holy Spirit:
“Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had
received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them*, who when
they had come down, prayed for them* that they* might receive the Holy Spirit.
For as yet He (the Holy Spirit) had fallen upon none of them*.
They* had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Then they laid hands on them*, and they* received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of hands the Holy Spirit
was given, he offered them money …”(Acts 8:14-18) * the Samarians
The Samarians had received, believed, and had been water-baptized.
Peter and John laid hands on them and prayed that they be Spirit-baptized.
And poor Simon saw the results.

Key words in the 7 passages above:
Luke 24:49 (future) -- upon, power
Acts 1:4-8 (future) --- upon, power, H.S.baptism
Acts 2:1-4 -------------- upon, tongues, filled(*)
Acts 8:14-18 –--------- upon
Acts 10:44-48 -------– upon, tongues
Acts 11:15-17 –------- upon, H.S.baptism
Acts 19:5-6 ------------ upon, tongues

The baptism with the Holy Spirit is an ANOINTING for a special task or service.

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The Holy Spirit At and after one is baptised in the Holy Ghost, Doesn't just come upon us, But it is in us and flows out of us.
Jn 7: 37--39. Jn 14: 16--17.
The Greek word for, "Upon" in Acts 1: 8, Is "Epi",
And 52 times it's recorded as, "In you".

So the Baptism in the Holy Ghost, Is the Holy Spirit coming into us in a more powerful way.
Some of the disciples were born again [The Holy Spirit coming into them] In Jn 20: 22.
Peter was one of them because in Jn 21: 15--17, He told Jesus that he loved Him with the agopa love of God, You can't have the Apopa love of God unless you are born again.
And Jesus told some them that they would receive power when they are baptised in the Holy Ghost, When they feel the greater measure of the Spirit in them.

Gal 3:2

Titus 3
[sup]9 [/sup]But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. [sup]10 [/sup]Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, [sup]11 [/sup]knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

John Zain said:

“… the Holy Spirit fell upon all those (Gentiles) who heard the word
… the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
For they (Peter and his companions) heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter asked, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be
baptized (in water) who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’ ” (Acts 10:44-48)

The baptism with the Holy Spirit is an ANOINTING for a special task or service.

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Hi John,

Don't disagree with what you have said. But I would like to add something more than Anointing.

Notice in the above it speaks of 'Gift' of the Holy Spirit. When one does a word search on gifts, plural, then it does indeed speak of different anointings on those in the church.
1 Cor 12:4 Now there are diversities of the gifts
1 Cor 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom: to another the word of knowledge
But when scripture says gift, singular it refers to the one thing all born again Christians have.
1 Peter 4:10 As every man has received the gift,
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So how did Peter know that upon the Gentiles God had given them the 'gift" of the Holy Ghost?
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
And just as Jesus had told Nicodemous that he must be born again of the water and the Spirit, Peter commanded them to complete the new birth and be baptized (water) in the name of the Lord.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The Holy Spirit will fall on whom He chooses, Like God He is not interested in mens opinions

I allHis love

Some people are unimpressed with the simplicity of God.
That by hearing, a man with a heart and mind for God receives.

Even after the Spirit is given the process repeats itself over and over
Hearing and receiving, Hearing and receiving, Hearing and receiving

My own opinion is that there is a very simple explanation concerning the God's invitation to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and that is that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit enables God's people to speak with "tongues of angels" which is complimentary to their inherent ability to speak with the languages of men.
Of course, this brings us to the question of why Christians should desire to speak in the language of the angels.
The answer to that question is rather simple too.
The gospel of repentance, "Repent and be saved", (Acts 3:19), invites us to serve the Lord with all our heart and mind.
But the gospel of the kingdom, (Mark 1:14:15), invites us to "rule over all the works of God's hands", (Psalm 8:6).
To speak with spiritual authority in the kingdom of heaven, a Christian requires the enhanced ability to speak in a language suitable to that heavenly position.

MTPockets said:

To speak with spiritual authority in the kingdom of heaven, a Christian requires the enhanced ability to speak in a language suitable to that heavenly position.

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Would you care to continue to teach this from scripture, I'm all ears.

1 John 4:1

1 John 1:4

John Zain said:

2) One of the purposes of tongues is for the Holy Spirit to speak (to God!) through people!
Sorry, no time for more.

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Romans 8:26

we do not know what to pray for as we ought

Rex said:

Would you care to continue to teach this from scripture, I'm all ears.

1 John 4:1

1 John 1:4

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Hi! Rex -once again-
The truth is, that I can hardly wade through all the expressed opinions in this Forum on any given day. So, I jus' sortta' read what first catches my curiosity and occasionally make some kinna' comment ... jus' to hopefully offer some kinna' contribution that might prompt someone to discover more about the subject for themselves.
Yes, absolutely test the validity of everything you might read in here ... including my own expressed thoughts.
Now, as to your invitation: "Would you care to continue to teach this from scripture, I'm all ears":
It's not for nothing that shelves of books have been written on the subject of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit; it rightly seems to be both an exciting and intriguing matter to the majority of Christians. But I can't be writing a book here to give response to you.


When the unseen world is opened Jesus is baptized in the Holy Spirit. At that moment His ministry started. He was endowed with 'power from on high.' And then, lo, a voice from heaven, saying: "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased", (Matthew 3:17). Jesus was our model and we wish to walk in His steps. When we are baptized in the Holy Spirit the voice from heaven also speaks to us, saying: 'You are sons of God with whom I am well pleased.' From that moment onward we know we are heirs of God and co-heirs with Jesus Christ.

On the day of Pentecost Peter outlined the scriptural order when he said: 'Repent and be baptized every one of you . . ., and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit' (Acts 2:38). In Acts 8 we see this order being adhered to very clearly in the case of the Samaritans. First they believed what Phillip preached. Then they were set free from the unclean spirits. Then these 'men and women' bore witness of their newness of life by being baptized in water. They knew they were righteous, having a good conscience, because by his sufferings and death Jesus had atoned for their sins. They knew themselves to be citizens of the Kingdom of heaven.

Then they had to take the next step on the way of faith. They desired the baptism in the Holy Spirit and received it when Peter and John had laid hands upon them. Only after this baptism in the Holy Spirit did they become real new-testament Christians. We find the same order in Acts 19:1-7, when Paul first baptized in the name of Jesus twelve disciples of John the Baptist, then laid hands upon them for the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

The Old Covenant did not know of any further edification after righteousness. It took a whole lifetime's effort to become righteous according to the requirements of the law. This was a never-ending task. Under the New Covenant, we become righteous because we believe in the atonement through the blood of Jesus Christ. By this faith we enter into the narrow gate and start off on the road which leads towards perfection. In the sermon on the mount the Lord Jesus said that we would be perfect as the heavenly Father is perfect. This word perfect also means 'mature.' In Ephesians 4.13 the apostle mentions 'mature manhood,' using the same word. In Hebrews 5:14 the word occurs in this sense: 'the mature, those who have their faculties trained by practice to distinguish good from evil.'

In 2Timothy 3:16 Paul wrote concerning the purpose of his gospel that it leads man to completeness and perfection; equipping him for every good work. Jesus was equipped for good work and so will we if we are baptized in the same Holy Spirit and work with the same power and abilities.

The Old Covenant did not know of anything that followed after righteousness. For them it was impossible to go the way of faith until they reached the goal. The bible says: "And all these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was promised (that is the Holy Spirit), since God had foreseen something better for us", (Hebrews 11:39). We are allowed to receive the promise of the Father. The Father and the Son wish to take up a dwelling place in us, through the Holy Spirit, (John 14:23). The New Covenant is enacted on better promises, (Hebrew 8:6).

The Old Covenant did not know the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, "for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified", (John 7:39). Revelation 3:20 has this glorious promise: "Behold. I stand at the door and knock; if any one heals my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me". This is a very clear picture of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. If we open the door of our heart, the Holy Ghost will enter. Then our' spirit has fellowship with the Spirit of Christ. Together they satisfy themselves from the bread of life, which is the Word of God.
Thus we see that the faithful Abraham "looked forward to the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God", (Hebrews 11:10).

Many Christians seek the same city. Their hymns speak of the pearly gates and streets of gold in the New Jerusalem. But who is conscious of the fact that Jesus called His church to a much more 'noble' use? We should be more than mere future inhabitants of the heavenly city. For we are a "temple of God in the spirit,; and a 'royal priesthood". It takes an anointing to be a priest. Concerning Jesus. our High Priest, it says, "that God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power", (Acts 10:30). In the same way only those citizens of heavenly Jerusalem are anointed with the Holy Spirit who are part of the temple of God. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is the characteristic of the New Covenant.

Through the baptism in the Holy Spirit God not only is with His people, He even is in them Then His Spirit together with the human spirit constitutes a unity, a spiritual bond of marriage, for "he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with Him", (ICor 6:17). It is not good that the human spirit should be alone. As in natural life, in a happy marriage man and wife both live in the same house and are one, so in the unseen world the Spirit of God and the human spirit are one. They dwell in the temple of God which is the human body.

We do not enter into the New Covenant automatically, just because of the fact that we live two thousand years after the birth of Christ. We become partakers of this Covenant because we experience our personal 'Pentecost.' The bible says the Old Covenant is the one which vanishes away, but what if we refuse to let it vanish away?

It is useful to ask yourself the question: in which respect is what I have more than what the faithful of the Old Covenant had? Do I have more than forgiveness of sins and righteousness? Provided you really do have this in faith, do you really have that divine quality to speak as Jesus spoke and to think and act as He did? Jesus expects His people to do even greater works than He did, (John 14:12), but this is impossible if they are not endowed with 'power from on high.' Only through the baptism in the Holy Spirit the Christian receives the possibility to deliver the creation, to heal and restore in the same way as the Lord was. About the faithful of the New Covenant, Jesus said that they would cast out evil spirits, lay hands upon the sick that they should be healed, and speak in new tongues, (Mark 16:17). This is only possible through the power/baptism of the Holy Spirit.

As a first sign of the new spiritual life the baptism in the Holy Spirit is accompanied by speaking in tongues. The sign of Pentecost is: "And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each of them", (Acts 2:3). These tongues were not 'of fire,' but 'as of fire,' that is, they were a sign in the unseen, spiritual world. The disciples, not the on-lookers, saw this sign of the New Covenant. As John the Baptist and Jesus saw the Holy Spirit descend 'like a dove,' so the faithful in the upper chamber saw fiery tongues distributed. This fire did not singe or sear, it was a spiritual fire, just as Moses saw in the burning bush. In the same way speaking in tongues is not for the earth but for the spiritual world, just as the baptism in the Holy Spirit is an event in the heavenly places. That is where speaking in tongues has its function, although it is manifested on earth. "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues".

When in the natural world a child is born it starts to make itself heard immediately and before long it imitates the sounds which it hears from its mother. Of course it does not understand the meaning of these sounds, but in proportion with its spiritual development the range of sounds increases and finally it also starts to understand what it says. Every normal human speaks a language. His spirit provides the ideas and his mind the words and sentences. Many people speak more than one language and are able to express themselves more or less fluently in these languages.

The Holy Spirit 'knows everything', (1John 3:20) in the natural and in the unseen world. He knows the tongues of men and of angels, (1Cor 13:1). Is it therefore such a great miracle that where the Spirit of God dwells in man He causes the Christian to speak in languages which he has never learned? 'And they began to speak in other tongues (languages), as the Spirit gave them utterance.' On the day of Pentecost the foreigners were amazed and wondered, saying: 'Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?', (Acts 2:4-8).

Paul admitted: 'If I pray in a tongue my spirit prays (by receiving the words from the Holy Spirit) but my mind is unfruitful' (1Cor 14:14). The Spirit of God inspires the words which otherwise are provided by the human spirit and regulated and controlled by the mind. Through this gift we speak 'not to men but to God' (1Cor 14:2).

This basic gift of the Holy Spirit requires that our spirit is directed at and attuned to the Holy Spirit. If a child is not attuned to the mother it will not speak the sounds it hears from her. This first spiritual gift, this speaking in new tongues, is a real stumbling stone for a natural minded Christian, but at the same time it is the means for the uplifting of the spiritual man's life and a proof 'not for the believers but for unbelievers', (1Cor 14:4 & 22).

Concerning the baptism in the Holy Spirit the Lord said to the woman at the well: 'Whoever shall drink of the water that I shall give him will never thirst; the water that I shall give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life', (John 4:14). This spring of water will keep a Christian's life green and crisp and fruitful, but it will also mean healing and life for an injured and groaning creation, for once again the Lord said: 'He who believes in me, as the scripture has said, "Out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water." Now this He said about the Spirit, which those who believed in Him were to receive' (John 7:38-39).

Your original statement

To speak with spiritual authority in the kingdom of heaven, a Christian requires the enhanced ability to speak in a language suitable to that heavenly position.

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From the chapter above

As a first sign of the new spiritual life the baptism in the Holy Spirit is accompanied by speaking in tongues.

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So when you were born of the Spirit you spoke and men of different tongues "language dialect" all heard you in his own language?

Acts 2:4 and began to speak in other tongues.
Meaning dialect, people understood every word they said, not so much the gibberish I hear today. Paul taught that if you speak in tongues that someone needs to interpret what is said 1 Cor 14:27. This was unnecessary at Pentecost. And public displays of tongues as described in Romans 8:26 needs interpretation.

Acts 2
[sup]5 [/sup]And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. [sup]6 [/sup]And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. [sup]7 [/sup]Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? [sup]8 [/sup]And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? [sup]9 [/sup]Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, [sup]10 [/sup]Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, [sup]11 [/sup]Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” [sup]12 [/sup]So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”

I never did read your whole post your a bit long winded

As for your original statement

To speak with spiritual authority in the kingdom of heaven, a Christian requires the enhanced ability to speak in a language suitable to that heavenly position.

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1 Cor 4:6

Romans 8:26

I'll spell it out so there is no confusion
Don't go beyond what is written

Rex said:

Your original statement


From the chapter above


So when you were born of the Spirit you spoke and men of different tongues "language dialect" all heard you in his own language?

Acts 2:4 and began to speak in other tongues.
Meaning dialect, people understood every word they said, not so much the gibberish I hear today. Paul taught that if you speak in tongues that someone needs to interpret what is said 1 Cor 14:27. This was unnecessary at Pentecost. And public displays of tongues as described in Romans 8:26 needs interpretation.

Acts 2
[sup]5 [/sup]And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. [sup]6 [/sup]And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. [sup]7 [/sup]Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? [sup]8 [/sup]And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? [sup]9 [/sup]Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, [sup]10 [/sup]Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, [sup]11 [/sup]Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” [sup]12 [/sup]So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”

I never did read your whole post your a bit long winded

As for your original statement


1 Cor 4:6

Romans 8:26

I'll spell it out so there is no confusion
Don't go beyond what is written

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Hi! Rex

The first comment I wish to make is that I found your comment saying, "I never did read your whole post your a bit long winded", somewhat discouraging. Not in a personal way. No.
Rather, the question came to my mind: "What do you think? Do you think that the profound thoughts of God can be pronounced in three or four sentences? Perhaps, two paragraphs?
Do you think that the thoughts of God are meant to be spoon-fed to people who have something of a lazy streak?
Hardly likely.
You should have "counted the cost", (Luke 14:28), before seeking the face of God for yourself and entering into your Salvation journey.
It's not for nothing that your Bible states "Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain".

That being said at the outset:
The problem, (at least as near as I can perceive), is that most Christians have failed to comprehend the incredible purposes and intents that God has invited them to attain for themselves. Salvation is so much more than keeping score of our sins and changing our behavior or otherwise living a moral life.
Goodness, look around us! Even the famous Alcoholics Anonymous 12 Step program has successfully achieved that ... and, WITHOUT adhering to our Gospel.
Far too many of our fellow Christians have become content to unquestionably align themselves to an ideology which has been sourced from the stumbling minds of our theological ancestors from centuries gone past. They have failed to understand that God continues to speak to His people in this day and hour ... and continues to usher in a "fullness of time" ... a time of refreshing for His faithful. After all, our God is alive! He lives within our now and speaks to His people in this very day.
It is not that the words of the Bible become changed or altered for us to more clearly see the truths behind them. No, this is what the deceiver is so adept at doing. It is that the words of the Bible become more 'alive' ... more meaningful ... more clear to our inner man. We are no longer held hostage to the limited knowledge that our 'theological ancestors' possessed for their time and place. No, God speaks in this day to His people and His thoughts are becoming increasingly revealed to his faithful.
To those 'theological ancestors' of centuries passed, the words of Jesus apply: "Have I been with you so long and still you do not know me?".
So it is that the "Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you".
That being said, it should not surprise anyone that the works brought about by the baptism of the Holy Spirit continues to be blurred for so many of God's people.

For example: While forming man God blows His breath of life into his nostrils. What does that mean?

In Hebrew it says ‘neshamah’. The Old Testament translates this original word at a number of places by the word spirit, (Job 26:4, Proverbs 20:27 NIV). And with soul (Proverbs 20:27 SV, Isaiah 57:16 SV). So, the breath of life is not something material, but something spiritual. It is not something visible but something of the invisible world. With the blowing of the breath of life God forms formed our inner man. He created our inner being from the elements of heaven and equipped it with heavenly possibilities, so that man can function in the kingdom of heaven ... the spiritual world.

What does the Bible mean by: the spirit of man, the human soul, his breath of life or spirit of life?

Paul speaks about the eyes of man's heart, (Ephesians 1:18 NIV). Mark writes that Jesus knows in His spirit, (Mark 2:8 NIV). Therefore, the spirit of man is able to see. Man has spiritual eyes.
The book of Revelation frequently declares: “Whoever has ears, let him hear what the Spirit says to the congregations”. Besides having natural eyes and ears, man also has spiritual senses with which he is able to perceive in the spiritual world.
Isaiah speaks about: expecting your voice to be heard on high, (Isaiah 58:4). Man also has a spiritual mouth, with which he is able to speak in the spiritual world.
Man is able to 'get hold of' something in the spiritual world because he also has spiritual hands. Ephesians 6 calls on us to put on the full, (spiritual), armor of God, to dress our inner man with it. Paul does not speak in that chapter about our natural, but about our spiritual hands, feet, head and waist.
John 13:21 says that Jesus was very sad,. This means that Jesus was moved in the spirit. His spiritual heart is touched. So, man not only has a natural, but also a spiritual heart. In this way we can understand the call in Proverbs 23:26, “My son, give Me your heart”. Here it has to do with our spiritual heart, the core of our lives ... the very core of our existence.

It's clear that the Bible portrays our inner being as the image of a body. Man has spiritual eyes and ears, a spiritual mouth, spiritual hands and feet and a spiritual heart. Just like the angels, men have a spiritual body by means of which they are able to function in heaven in a manner which is comparable to the way they are able to function with their natural body on earth. Both the visible material body and the invisible immaterial body characterize the being 'man'. In that way God has created him.

Paul literally puts this thought into words: “There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body”, (1Corinthians 15:44).
Paul is not speaking about obtaining a spiritual body at the resurrection from the dead. Rather, he states it as having it NOW.
Each man has from his origin a natural body and a spiritual body.

In another letter, the apostle speaks about man as a spirit-soul-body being, (1Thessalonians 5:23). Both these descriptions supplement each other. With 'body', Paul means the outward man: his natural body. With 'spirit' and 'soul', the inner man is meant. Together these form his spiritual body.
They together form a whole and represent the spiritual body of man. By indicating the inner man with the words spirit of life or breath of life, the Bible shows that the spiritual body of man as ‘neshamah’ works in his natural body and forms an entity with it. Through this connection of spiritual and natural body man lives, he becomes a living being (Genesis 2:7). The 'dust' is animated by the 'spirit'.

So, we must recognize that God gave man both a natural and a spiritual body.
Because God created man as a 'living being', it means that he belongs to something far more than just a natural existence on earth.
Man cannot be compared to all the other living beings on earth; Man was created as far superior than the animals and the birds which He formed out of the ground, (Genesis 2:19), from 'dust'. The natural creation have no 'neshama' which would equip them for a conscious existence and functioning in the spiritual world. The natural creation only live on earth.

Therefore, because God also gave man a material body, we may understand He did not create him for a spiritual existence only. This form of existence belongs to heavenly beings such as the angels who were formed out of 'spirit'. Since angels do not have a material body, they cannot possess an existence on earth. Their spiritual body cannot function as 'neshama' in a natural body. Consequently, angels function in heaven.

But, as I mentioned above, God created man for a life in heaven and on earth. In this way, man has an eternal life in alliance with Him.
This is what makes the being 'man' so incredibly and wonderfully unique.
God has distinguished the human being from all other beings which He created.
He created man to be the crown of His creation and, because of that, every man possesses within themselves a glorious destiny. This is the real narrative behind our Gospel ... the splendid truth behind our salvation. Our spiritual body becomes "resurrected from the dead" and we are again enabled to realize God's ultimate purpose and intents for our lives.

Now, I explained all the above so that you might have a better insight into why it is that every Christian should seek after the ability to "speak with tongues of men and angels". It is the ability to have your spiritual body speak in the invisible world of the spirits ... the kingdom of heaven.

MTPockets said:

Hi! Rex

The first comment I wish to make is that I found your comment saying, "I never did read your whole post your a bit long winded", somewhat discouraging. Not in a personal way. No.
Rather, the question came to my mind: "What do you think? Do you think that the profound thoughts of God can be pronounced in three or four sentences? Perhaps, two paragraphs?
Do you think that the thoughts of God are meant to be spoon-fed to people who have something of a lazy streak?
Hardly likely.
You should have "counted the cost", (Luke 14:28), before seeking the face of God for yourself and entering into your Salvation journey.
It's not for nothing that your Bible states "Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain".

That being said at the outset:
The problem, (at least as near as I can perceive), is that most Christians have failed to comprehend the incredible purposes and intents that God has invited them to attain for themselves. Salvation is so much more than keeping score of our sins and changing our behavior or otherwise living a moral life.
Goodness, look around us! Even the famous Alcoholics Anonymous 12 Step program has successfully achieved that ... and, WITHOUT adhering to our Gospel.
Far too many of our fellow Christians have become content to unquestionably align themselves to an ideology which has been sourced from the stumbling minds of our theological ancestors from centuries gone past. They have failed to understand that God continues to speak to His people in this day and hour ... and continues to usher in a "fullness of time" ... a time of refreshing for His faithful. After all, our God is alive! He lives within our now and speaks to His people in this very day.
It is not that the words of the Bible become changed or altered for us to more clearly see the truths behind them. No, this is what the deceiver is so adept at doing. It is that the words of the Bible become more 'alive' ... more meaningful ... more clear to our inner man. We are no longer held hostage to the limited knowledge that our 'theological ancestors' possessed for their time and place. No, God speaks in this day to His people and His thoughts are becoming increasingly revealed to his faithful.
To those 'theological ancestors' of centuries passed, the words of Jesus apply: "Have I been with you so long and still you do not know me?".
So it is that the "Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you".
That being said, it should not surprise anyone that the works brought about by the baptism of the Holy Spirit continues to be blurred for so many of God's people.

For example: While forming man God blows His breath of life into his nostrils. What does that mean?

In Hebrew it says ‘neshamah’. The Old Testament translates this original word at a number of places by the word spirit, (Job 26:4, Proverbs 20:27 NIV). And with soul (Proverbs 20:27 SV, Isaiah 57:16 SV). So, the breath of life is not something material, but something spiritual. It is not something visible but something of the invisible world. With the blowing of the breath of life God forms formed our inner man. He created our inner being from the elements of heaven and equipped it with heavenly possibilities, so that man can function in the kingdom of heaven ... the spiritual world.

What does the Bible mean by: the spirit of man, the human soul, his breath of life or spirit of life?

Paul speaks about the eyes of man's heart, (Ephesians 1:18 NIV). Mark writes that Jesus knows in His spirit, (Mark 2:8 NIV). Therefore, the spirit of man is able to see. Man has spiritual eyes.
The book of Revelation frequently declares: “Whoever has ears, let him hear what the Spirit says to the congregations”. Besides having natural eyes and ears, man also has spiritual senses with which he is able to perceive in the spiritual world.
Isaiah speaks about: expecting your voice to be heard on high, (Isaiah 58:4). Man also has a spiritual mouth, with which he is able to speak in the spiritual world.
Man is able to 'get hold of' something in the spiritual world because he also has spiritual hands. Ephesians 6 calls on us to put on the full, (spiritual), armor of God, to dress our inner man with it. Paul does not speak in that chapter about our natural, but about our spiritual hands, feet, head and waist.
John 13:21 says that Jesus was very sad,. This means that Jesus was moved in the spirit. His spiritual heart is touched. So, man not only has a natural, but also a spiritual heart. In this way we can understand the call in Proverbs 23:26, “My son, give Me your heart”. Here it has to do with our spiritual heart, the core of our lives ... the very core of our existence.

It's clear that the Bible portrays our inner being as the image of a body. Man has spiritual eyes and ears, a spiritual mouth, spiritual hands and feet and a spiritual heart. Just like the angels, men have a spiritual body by means of which they are able to function in heaven in a manner which is comparable to the way they are able to function with their natural body on earth. Both the visible material body and the invisible immaterial body characterize the being 'man'. In that way God has created him.

Paul literally puts this thought into words: “There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body”, (1Corinthians 15:44).
Paul is not speaking about obtaining a spiritual body at the resurrection from the dead. Rather, he states it as having it NOW.
Each man has from his origin a natural body and a spiritual body.

In another letter, the apostle speaks about man as a spirit-soul-body being, (1Thessalonians 5:23). Both these descriptions supplement each other. With 'body', Paul means the outward man: his natural body. With 'spirit' and 'soul', the inner man is meant. Together these form his spiritual body.
They together form a whole and represent the spiritual body of man. By indicating the inner man with the words spirit of life or breath of life, the Bible shows that the spiritual body of man as ‘neshamah’ works in his natural body and forms an entity with it. Through this connection of spiritual and natural body man lives, he becomes a living being (Genesis 2:7). The 'dust' is animated by the 'spirit'.

So, we must recognize that God gave man both a natural and a spiritual body.
Because God created man as a 'living being', it means that he belongs to something far more than just a natural existence on earth.
Man cannot be compared to all the other living beings on earth; Man was created as far superior than the animals and the birds which He formed out of the ground, (Genesis 2:19), from 'dust'. The natural creation have no 'neshama' which would equip them for a conscious existence and functioning in the spiritual world. The natural creation only live on earth.

Therefore, because God also gave man a material body, we may understand He did not create him for a spiritual existence only. This form of existence belongs to heavenly beings such as the angels who were formed out of 'spirit'. Since angels do not have a material body, they cannot possess an existence on earth. Their spiritual body cannot function as 'neshama' in a natural body. Consequently, angels function in heaven.

But, as I mentioned above, God created man for a life in heaven and on earth. In this way, man has an eternal life in alliance with Him.
This is what makes the being 'man' so incredibly and wonderfully unique.
God has distinguished the human being from all other beings which He created.
He created man to be the crown of His creation and, because of that, every man possesses within themselves a glorious destiny. This is the real narrative behind our Gospel ... the splendid truth behind our salvation. Our spiritual body becomes "resurrected from the dead" and we are again enabled to realize God's ultimate purpose and intents for our lives.

Now, I explained all the above so that you might have a better insight into why it is that every Christian should seek after the ability to "speak with tongues of men and angels". It is the ability to have your spiritual body speak in the invisible world of the spirits ... the kingdom of heaven.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with anything you said here. As I mentioned in the other tread you brought up, this has been a topic, another tread has apparently been abandoned by John on the same subject, and this one appeared. My being involved in it is to not dispute tongues but to maybe keep it in its proper context.
I myself have found that proper discernment and understanding threw the renewing of your mind in Christ is essential to living the life you to describe. In the fullness and complete indwelling of Christ within us. IMO this doesn't and can't happen unless we and our foundational understanding is complete. The Lord doesn't empower the words to those that cause confusion or incomplete messages as well as additional information "beyond what is taught"

I hope I have made myself clear, and I tell you this as well.


Hebrews 6

New King James Version (NKJV)
The Peril of Not Progressing

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, [sup]2 [/sup]of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [sup]3 [/sup]And this we will[sup][a][/sup] do if God permits.
[sup]4 [/sup]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [sup]5 [/sup]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [sup]6 [/sup]if they fall away,[sup][b][/sup] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
[sup]7 [/sup]For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; [sup]8 [/sup]but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

I found this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeguOPBE-vs

Rex said:

I don't disagree with anything you said here. As I mentioned in the other tread you brought up, this has been a topic, another tread has apparently been abandoned by John on the same subject, and this one appeared. My being involved in it is to not dispute tongues but to maybe keep it in its proper context.
I myself have found that proper discernment and understanding threw the renewing of your mind in Christ is essential to living the life you to describe. In the fullness and complete indwelling of Christ within us. IMO this doesn't and can't happen unless we and our foundational understanding is complete. The Lord doesn't empower the words to those that cause confusion or incomplete messages as well as additional information "beyond what is taught"

I hope I have made myself clear, and I tell you this as well.

Click to expand...

Hi! Rex
I read your position about this Thread with great relief and encouragement. Thank you sincerely!
I'm kinna' elderly now and a form of OLD-zheimers can occasionally wrestle with me. I was never much good at remembering names ... and now much less to permanently attach the sentiments of a Thread/Comments to a person's name. So, please tolerate that about me.
I jus' visit here occasionally to peek in an' see whatz happenin' sortta' thing. I don't read every Thread ... there isn't sufficient time in a day to do that. But your Comment prompted me to reply and I'm happy that I did.
I can only speak from out of my own personal Christian experience ... about what works for me. All the same, God speaks to everyone in a language that they alone can decipher and understand for themselves. We are all on the same journey ... all travelling the same path ... all seeking the same Face of Him Who is the origin of all life. Some will discover treasures more readily than others; some too will find riches much sooner than others. But the promise remains: "Seek and you shall find!" ... and we have the sure confidence that God does not arbitrarily favor any individual.
The truth is that I spent half my life engaged with stealing the valuables of others, (spent many years justly imprisoned), and, when I heard the Gospel, I soon learned that I was having to deal with the most treacherous thief of all.
The very first thing that the evil one steals from man is the face of God ... about who He is and how He behaves ... His true identity.
The second thing that is stolen is our own identity ... what the faith of God says about us and His awaiting destiny for us.
Again, personally speaking, when I set out to recover and restore what had been so ruthlessly stolen from my inner man, I became whole and content.
I wish you the very best for your spiritual future, Rex.

Thank you
And for a man who claims to suffer OLD-zheimers your pretty sharp in my book pulling up that thread as well as what you have said

God Bless you

In Acts 1:8 Jesus summarizes the work of the Holy Ghost. He is the inner abiding presence and person that completes the work of God the Father and Jesus the Son in the life of the believer. The Holy Ghost is given to empower us to witness in our speech, lives, conduct, words and beliefs. He also sanctifies and consecrates the believer to the service of God. The Holy Ghost baptizes the believer and then continues to fill them thereafeter. For there is One baptism of the Holy Ghost but many fillings thereafter.