Again, you skirt the question. Maybe its because you are the one who doesn't understand enough to answer it. I showed you a a passage where Jesus referred to 'the law' in telling a person what to do gain eternal life. Again I ask, which law? I think you know that He was referring to what you call the "Mosaic law", but are not willing to admit it. This isn't "dodgeball". You don't win by avoiding a tough throw. But I suppose as with any sport, the best defence is a good offense. So you simply avoid the question by reflecting it back at me. This is no answer. Either you can validate your viewpoint or you cannot.IBeMe said:
What required for going to Heaven?
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williemac: I think you know that He was referring to what you call the "Mosaic law", but are not willing to admit it.
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Analphabetic!
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
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williemac: Again, you skirt the question. Maybe its because ...
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Already answered, but you ignored.
It's not my fault if you don't like these words.
... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ...
You can't make the words of Jesus go away.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
.
williemac: I think you know that He was referring to what you call the "Mosaic law", but are not willing to admit it.
----------
Analphabetic!
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
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williemac: Again, you skirt the question. Maybe its because ...
----------
Already answered, but you ignored.
It's not my fault if you don't like these words.
... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ...
You can't make the words of Jesus go away.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
.
No, sir. You didn't answer the question. You gave a reply. Not the same thing. The passage you quote says the law and the prophets were until John. Then the kingdom of God is preached. What you mistakenly surmise from that is that from that time, the new covenant was in effect.IBeMe said:
But since you insist that His words will not pass away, why not include this; Math.10:5,6.." Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans, But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel".
Then later, He instructed them to go into all the world to preach the gospel. Does this mean that the first example has passed away? How literal are you going to take this? But we know that in the beginning, the gentiles were not included. However, it was ordained that they would eventually be included. In fact, it was not until Peter's exchange with Cornelius, confirmed in a vision, that they were convinced that God was including the gentiles.
You just don't get it, that certain things were done and said at certain times for certain reasons, and other things were kept hidden until their appointed time to be revealed. Such was the revelation that salvation was a gift of grace, given by faith in Jesus, specifically in response to His sacrifice for sin.
Paul made reference to this in Gal.3:22, 23....." But the scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed."
As I shared earlier, the Holy Spirit came to convict the unbelieving world of sin. Jesus called Him "another helper", whom He said could not and would not come until after He was gone. So how is it that you can't accept that maybe Jesus also convicted the world of sin? Were they not being kept under guard by the law?
As the author of Hebrews demonstrated, the testament is not in effect until after the death of the testator. The new covenant of grace, through faith, was not in effect until after His death. Were they not being kept under guard by the law until then?
You say that the law and the prophets 'ended' with John. Then how come Jesus referred to the law when asked what one should do to inherit life? Was He not keeping them under guard by the law?
You have yet to give a sincere and honest reply to this. You simply dodge and deny, and accuse, as usual.
What you fail to realize is that the term" the law and the prophets" typically refers to the writings of the old testament. That term refers to the scriptures of that day. It was not used in reference to the 'covenant of law'. Jesus was talking about timing of the the scriptures, not the timing of the new covenant.
But just another example of your confusion, from this quote:
God says ... Thou shalt keep my covenant ... and thy seed after thee in their generations.
So the question is,,,how do we keep the covenant? By works or by faith? I say by faith. You say by working, or by keeping the commandments. We have entered into this covenant by faith. God made a promise to Abraham and his Seed (Jesus). The new covenant is the result of this promise. The foundational promise of it is that "their sins and lawless deeds. I will remember no more" . That is God's part. Our part is to humbly accept life as a free gift and not waiver at the promise through unbelief.
Keeping commandments is important, but is not a requirement to be in or stay in covenant. We got our life freely by the sacrifice of One Man, righteousness of One Man, obedience of One man (Jesus). Your error is to suggest that we stay in covenant by our own obedience. If that were the case, God could never have made a promise to Abraham that depended on human performance. But then this is what the self righteous want to do: perform! It is a grave error for anyone to think he can justify himself before God by his own merit..
If you live in the united States of America...you were born into an environment, with courts based on judges that judge economic famine. That court placed a coin reigning over your heads...as if it was your favorite choice and medium for prayer or petitioning someone that walks by you...unobstructed by your actions.
This etiological explaination includes you, the reader of my words, while you sit in the privacy of a sanctuary of a church.(the temple of your head, your head that records your acts maintaining your soul)The people that surround you are like you...appraised by the united States government as an income earner...placing everyone somewhere up or down the ladder and it's rungs appraised.The children you hold in your arms are are prophesised to encounter this same exact doom...their future place up and down the ladder appraised.
I used the word doom, due to the stark reality that seperates the poor and the rich...that need, all need ptotection from each other.
The coins reigning over your heads empowered the united States government above you...a Christian.They no longer derive their just powers from the consent of the people.They instead keep a good record using the cladestine branch of the IRS called the FBI top see how you managed your economic affairs...and not the lord or God's laws.
I hope this allows you some freedom from joining hands with the judges that judged economic famine and only helped cause someone to enter an execution chamber from their prophesied doom as a child...
The Omnipotent God is pure love and the absolutre truth...not an economist.Women must be able to say, "I Do" freely in a marriage ceremony...without the concern of the coins reigning over her head.
Matthew 18;15-17
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
This etiological explaination should not be in conflict with the words of the bible.
This etiological explaination includes you, the reader of my words, while you sit in the privacy of a sanctuary of a church.(the temple of your head, your head that records your acts maintaining your soul)The people that surround you are like you...appraised by the united States government as an income earner...placing everyone somewhere up or down the ladder and it's rungs appraised.The children you hold in your arms are are prophesised to encounter this same exact doom...their future place up and down the ladder appraised.
I used the word doom, due to the stark reality that seperates the poor and the rich...that need, all need ptotection from each other.
The coins reigning over your heads empowered the united States government above you...a Christian.They no longer derive their just powers from the consent of the people.They instead keep a good record using the cladestine branch of the IRS called the FBI top see how you managed your economic affairs...and not the lord or God's laws.
I hope this allows you some freedom from joining hands with the judges that judged economic famine and only helped cause someone to enter an execution chamber from their prophesied doom as a child...
The Omnipotent God is pure love and the absolutre truth...not an economist.Women must be able to say, "I Do" freely in a marriage ceremony...without the concern of the coins reigning over her head.
Matthew 18;15-17
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
This etiological explaination should not be in conflict with the words of the bible.
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williemac: No, sir. You didn't answer the question. You gave a reply. Not the same thing.
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Analphabetic; reply and answer are synonyms!
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williemac: But since you insist that His words will not pass away ...
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God insist, but I'm agreeing with God on this.
Why do you mock the words of Jesus?
Instead of mocking Jesus's words, why not TRUST Jesus's words and surrender to Jesus's words and abide in Jesus's words.
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
This is real simple, we just TRUST and DO what Jesus says.
]Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
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williemac: But since you insist that His words will not pass away, why not include this; Math.10:5,6.." Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans, But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel".
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For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
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williemac: But we know that in the beginning, the gentiles were not included. However, it was ordained that they would eventually be included. In fact, it was not until Peter's exchange with Cornelius, confirmed in a vision, that they were convinced that God was including the gentiles.
----------
But Jesus did deliver the Gospel to the Samaritans, and they believed on Jesus ... There goes this little dark theory up in smoke!
First women evangelist; "Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?"
The women preached the Gospel, didn't fight against the words of Jesus.
And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
And she convinced many more to hear Jesus, not fight against His words.
And many more believed because of his own word; And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
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williemac: You just don't get it, that certain things were done and said at certain times for certain reasons ...
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You just don't get it because you keep ignoring the words of Jesus.
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
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williemac: Paul made reference to this in Gal.3:22, 23....." But the scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed."
----------
Do you believe the scripture you posted?
"we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed"
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
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williemac: So how is it that you can't accept that maybe Jesus also convicted the world of sin? Were they not being kept under guard by the law?
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How is it you'd rather believe in "maybe", than the words of Jesus?
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached ...
"maybe" = offers the connotation of a possibility of being true
Jesus explicitly says; The law and the prophets were until John
So, "maybe" is analphabetic.
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williemac: Were they not being kept under guard by the law until then?
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Are you analphabetic?
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached ...
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: ...
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
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williemac: You say that the law and the prophets 'ended' with John.
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That's what Jesus says.
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williemac: Then how come Jesus referred to the law when asked what one should do to inherit life? Was He not keeping them under guard by the law?
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How come you twist what Jesus said?
Layer: Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Jesus: What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Layer: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus: Thou hast answered right: this do( Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.) ), and thou shalt live.
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williemac: You have yet to give a sincere and honest reply to this. You simply dodge and deny, and accuse, as usual.
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Idiomatic trash-talk ignored as juvenile and inconsequential.
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williemac: Jesus was talking about timing of the the scriptures, not the timing of the new covenant.
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Analphabetic!
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth ...
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williemac: So the question is,,,how do we keep the covenant? By works or by faith? I say by faith. You say by working, or by keeping the commandments.
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The only "say" that matters.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
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williemac: Our part is to humbly accept life as a free gift and not waiver at the promise through unbelief.
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That's anti-words of Jesus.
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
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williemac: Your error is to suggest that we stay in covenant by our own obedience.
----------
I suggest all do what the Bible says ...
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
... and heed the Bible's warning of those teaching otherwise.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
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williemac: If that were the case, God could never have made a promise to Abraham that depended on human performance.
----------
Why do you keep sticking your foot in your mouth?
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
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williemac: It is a grave error for anyone to think he can justify himself before God by his own merit..
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It is a grave error for anyone to try to ignore the words of Jesus.
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
.
williemac: No, sir. You didn't answer the question. You gave a reply. Not the same thing.
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Analphabetic; reply and answer are synonyms!
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williemac: But since you insist that His words will not pass away ...
----------
God insist, but I'm agreeing with God on this.
Why do you mock the words of Jesus?
Instead of mocking Jesus's words, why not TRUST Jesus's words and surrender to Jesus's words and abide in Jesus's words.
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
This is real simple, we just TRUST and DO what Jesus says.
]Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
----------
williemac: But since you insist that His words will not pass away, why not include this; Math.10:5,6.." Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans, But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel".
----------
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
----------
williemac: But we know that in the beginning, the gentiles were not included. However, it was ordained that they would eventually be included. In fact, it was not until Peter's exchange with Cornelius, confirmed in a vision, that they were convinced that God was including the gentiles.
----------
But Jesus did deliver the Gospel to the Samaritans, and they believed on Jesus ... There goes this little dark theory up in smoke!
First women evangelist; "Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?"
The women preached the Gospel, didn't fight against the words of Jesus.
And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
And she convinced many more to hear Jesus, not fight against His words.
And many more believed because of his own word; And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
----------
williemac: You just don't get it, that certain things were done and said at certain times for certain reasons ...
----------
You just don't get it because you keep ignoring the words of Jesus.
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
----------
williemac: Paul made reference to this in Gal.3:22, 23....." But the scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed."
----------
Do you believe the scripture you posted?
"we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed"
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
----------
williemac: So how is it that you can't accept that maybe Jesus also convicted the world of sin? Were they not being kept under guard by the law?
----------
How is it you'd rather believe in "maybe", than the words of Jesus?
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached ...
"maybe" = offers the connotation of a possibility of being true
Jesus explicitly says; The law and the prophets were until John
So, "maybe" is analphabetic.
----------
williemac: Were they not being kept under guard by the law until then?
----------
Are you analphabetic?
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached ...
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: ...
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
----------
williemac: You say that the law and the prophets 'ended' with John.
----------
That's what Jesus says.
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williemac: Then how come Jesus referred to the law when asked what one should do to inherit life? Was He not keeping them under guard by the law?
----------
How come you twist what Jesus said?
Layer: Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Jesus: What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Layer: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus: Thou hast answered right: this do( Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.) ), and thou shalt live.
----------
williemac: You have yet to give a sincere and honest reply to this. You simply dodge and deny, and accuse, as usual.
----------
Idiomatic trash-talk ignored as juvenile and inconsequential.
----------
williemac: Jesus was talking about timing of the the scriptures, not the timing of the new covenant.
----------
Analphabetic!
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth ...
----------
williemac: So the question is,,,how do we keep the covenant? By works or by faith? I say by faith. You say by working, or by keeping the commandments.
----------
The only "say" that matters.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
----------
williemac: Our part is to humbly accept life as a free gift and not waiver at the promise through unbelief.
----------
That's anti-words of Jesus.
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
----------
williemac: Your error is to suggest that we stay in covenant by our own obedience.
----------
I suggest all do what the Bible says ...
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
... and heed the Bible's warning of those teaching otherwise.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
----------
williemac: If that were the case, God could never have made a promise to Abraham that depended on human performance.
----------
Why do you keep sticking your foot in your mouth?
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
----------
williemac: It is a grave error for anyone to think he can justify himself before God by his own merit..
----------
It is a grave error for anyone to try to ignore the words of Jesus.
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
.
By definition, a synonym is something that is similar, but not the same. Why don't you think before you reply? If I ask a question and you reply with ...DUHH, you have replied but not answered the question.....DUHHH!IBeMe said:
Analphabetic; reply and answer are synonyms!
.
"answer": A spoken or written reply, as to a question. (TheFreeDictionary.com app)
"answer": something spoken or written in reply to a question (Merriam-Webster)
.
.
.
"answer": A spoken or written reply, as to a question. (TheFreeDictionary.com app)
"answer": something spoken or written in reply to a question (Merriam-Webster)
.
A person must be a member of the Catholic Church for salvation since outside the Catholic Church there is absolutely no salvation.
justaname
Disciple of Jesus Christ
- Mar 14, 2011
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This doctrine is correct. The Universal Church includes the entire body of believers as to which our membership is proven by the indwelling of the HolySpirit, not man's record.Elizabeth said:
Shalom
Rev 14:3 is clear on this matter--144,000 are bought from the earth) --- with Jesus blood--these are the little flock-the bride of Christ. --- the anointed--no more--no less than 144,000.
As for the great crowd of other sheep--Jesus promised this--Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth.
As for the great crowd of other sheep--Jesus promised this--Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth.
If that's scriptural, then what's the scripture and verse?
.
The Bible says that He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Christians are warned not to accept anybody presumptuously teaching any other doctrine; less they be a partner in "evil deeds".
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Jesus says; "whosoever".
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
.
I have great respect for the Catholic church but that is not part of their infallible dogma.Elizabeth said:
More dodgeball. Maybe I should have been more clear. You gave a reply, but in that reply, you did not address the request that the question made. I asked a question. Your reply was to the fact that I asked it, but it was not "to the question asked". My point is that you know fully well what I meant but skirted it by invalidating the grammar. Are you just trying to show off how smart you are, or you actually interested in having a meaningful and honest discussion?IBeMe said:
I will ask it again in different words: Did Jesus teach or promote any of the the same commandments that Moses did?
You can reply with anything you want. But a yes or no will satisfy the request of the actual question, therefore will be a reply "to the question".
As for the rest of your previous reply..its all just a repeat of other previous ones. I am growing tired of all this repitition. I say again...I am growing tired of all this repetition.
Are you serious? Not even the Catholic church officially makes this absurd claim. And if they did, they would officially attain the status of a cult.Elizabeth said:
Acts 4:12..." Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven (Jesus), given among men by which we must be saved"
Rom.10:9..."..that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"
KingJ said:
[SIZE=11pt]Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."[/SIZE]
justaname
Disciple of Jesus Christ
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Again, the Catholic Church is the Universal Church and basically this states only those in Christ are saved. Notice this does not state you must be in the Roman Catholic Church, only that you must be in the Catholic Church.Elizabeth said:
The Universal (Catholic) Church is the body of Christ. A person becomes "a member" of the church simply by exercising faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Also what must be noted is this is not scripture.
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williemac: I will ask it again in different words: Did Jesus teach or promote any of the the same commandments that Moses did?
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Analphabetic.
Jesus is The Word of God.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
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williemac: As for the rest of your previous reply..its all just a repeat of other previous ones. I am growing tired of all this repitition. I say again...I am growing tired of all this repetition.
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Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
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williemac: I will ask it again in different words: Did Jesus teach or promote any of the the same commandments that Moses did?
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Analphabetic.
Jesus is The Word of God.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
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williemac: As for the rest of your previous reply..its all just a repeat of other previous ones. I am growing tired of all this repitition. I say again...I am growing tired of all this repetition.
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Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
.
Right back at ya, bro!IBeMe said:
But hey, just because you have a new favorite word (analphabetic), this is no excuse to avoid what is staring in your face. (Jesus taught law).
The word and the doctrine of Christ is that God resists the proud. Jesus (The Word) said..."He who seeks to save his own life will lose it" He also said "...everyone who exalts himslef will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted"....So for those who want to merit their salvation through their own efforts, this is also transgression.
The purpose of the law was/is to take away one's self confidence. But like those who have addictions, they will not easily look for help until they reach the end of themselves. Keeping commandments is not the issue. Feeling justified for life by one's own behavior is.
Rom.10:4..." Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, to everyone who believes"
Next question. Since we are not made righteous by keeping the law, then how is it that we can become unrighteous/unsaved by breaking it (sin is transgression of law)? (of course you can always attack the grammar if you don't want to address the question)
The logic that some people are using goes something like this: " your paycheque is a free gift, not because you worked for it...but if you fail to show up for work, your paycheque will be withdrawn" If that is the case, then how was it ever a free gift?
Isn't it more a case of 'our free pay cheque is waiting for us. If after a long while we fail to fetch it, the fact that we don't want it is clear'.williemac said:
I like the example of salvation being a plane leaving the airport at a certain time. We could not and were not involved in building it. We have all been given enough time to get there. Works are needed to get us to the airport ...which isn't really ''works'' if we want to fly away with Jesus.
I am not expecting you to disregard that, but you do need to consider context and other text.Elizabeth said:
The Catechism (quoting Lumen Gentium) summarizes: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (CCC 846)
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (quoting Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, 16) states: This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)
Vatican II document Gaudium Et Spesteaches similarly on the possibility of salvation: All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery. (22)
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