Is Temptation Evil?

aspen said:

If one party is tempting another, they are wilfully inviting them to misuse God’s creation.

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Already explained this in detail.

Tempting is not evil, until the INTENT of the Tempter is established.

God Bless,
Taken

aspen said:

Give me an example of someone tempting another, who has good intentions and is therefore not exercising evil

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Why ask me for what was already given you just a few posts ago? (#18)


God Bless,
Taken

brakelite said:

I'm with Aspen on this one. Temptation is wholly and intrinsically evil. We are told to resist it at all costs. It's dangerous, it's deceptive, it's a lie, it is, if surrendered to, designed to draw everyone into the rebellion. Even chocolate cake. The temptation is to give in to lust. Selfishness. Anyone remember a particular fruit? Okay, chocolate cake isn't forbidden explicitly, but gluttony, selfishness, and

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I disagree. You are told to learn knowledge, then Understand it according to Gods Understanding.

If you review Scripture; Evil Temptations, are invoked by a Tempter who is "offering" to the one being tempted, things that ARE NOT THE TEMPTERS to begin with, and typically ends, with the one being Tempted, to SUFFER should they ACCEPT the Temptation.

And so .... were you not TEMPTED BY God, to hear His Word? And find out what is this eternal Life He OFFERS? And did you fall for His Tempting OFFER of eternal Life?

And do you think that was EVIL?

It is a Tempting offer. However what is being OFFERED, BY GOD, is "HIS" to offer!
And His intent is for something GOOD.

It is the lack of understanding, that can cause one to become snared, by a wicked Tempter, and accept the offer of the Tempter.

The US Democratic politicians do this routinely. Offer burdens "freebies", and then pass the COST off on the Public at Large.
When Nothing in the US Constitution authorized such offers to be made, or such burden to be laid on the Public at Large.

any lack of self-control in appetite is a sin.

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It is? But I thought the Lord forgave all of your sins, that you would be free from sin, and said don't worry about what you eat.??

Rom 6:22
1 John 2:12
Matt 6:25

God Bless,
Taken

aspen said:

Mark 9:42

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And your point? You are informing me you ask the Lord to help you with your disbelief?

Good for you.

Personally I do not recall not believing, and eons ago asked the Lord to sustain me in belief.

God Bless,
Taken

bbyrd009 said:

and you've been plagued by seven worse spirits ever since? i mean yikes

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Not my claim; since you are talking, must be applicable to you...yikes for you.

rolleyes
oh i forgot
in the Scriptural sense, i don't think so wadr.
That strikes me more as a (harmless) misuse of the term "tempt." Cake is being offered there, at least usually imo

not that you are even fit to debate this with or anything, sheesh

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Once understood, and the intent, it is applicable to everyday or spiritual.

God Bless,
Taken

bbyrd009 said:

goodie, we're so short of ppl who are legends in their own mind lol

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Actually the shortage is of people who UNDERSTAND according to God, and give way too much credit to their own minds, without consideration of God Understanding.

God Bless,
Taken

bbyrd009 said:

we say that it will rain; God knows that it might rain

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Funny.

God Bless,
Taken

brakelite said:

That is a good point you make regarding the temptation to take something that doesn't belong to you...such as Eve taking the fruit from the tree of knowledge. With that temptation came also the deluding suggestion that God was holding something back from Eve that was to her benefit to have. The "ye shall be as gods" , and the fact that God was depriving them of this experience, was a suggestion that God didn't like competition. But you are right, such was not Satan's to offer, and was not Eve's to accept.

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Things offered by God however cannot, at least to my mind, be termed a temptation...they are a gift, to be accepted or rejected at will, because, as you say, such belongs only to God (eternal life/immortality) to rightly offer.

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An analogy. Agree what God gives is Gifts, Blessings, Rewards....And some of His blessings are given to ALL, regardless of their belief. And some of His Gifts, Blessings Rewards, are ONLY given to those WHO Believe.

So, just saying, Belief, begins with the individual. The individual has to First decide to Believe or not. The gifts He offers are tempting that one may decide he would like to receive. They come at the price of Belief.
Some can believe, AND receive.
Some simply can not believe, AND reject.

I think if salvation were such a tempting offer as opposed to rejecting it, more would accept it.Salvation comes as a gift, the temptation is to choose the world or the status quo instead of accepting it.

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God does work in mysterious ways.

To simply say to a man, Believe in God and the Word of God and you shall be saved...
Is completely foreign to a man who has never heard of God. (Poor analogy, but sort of like trying to teach a man he could travel from point A to point B in a short amount of time if he had a car, BUT the man had never heard of a car)

Meaning, the man would first have to learn about what a car is, or likewise what God is.

The learning about, comes from hearing about. The mystery is, every man that is hearing about God, is being "enlightened".

Which is to say; where God word is concerned, God is in the mix.
And when a man is hearing, learning, reading the Word of God; God is GIFTING that man WITH Faith.

Which is the mystery. We can do nothing of ourselves. People have a curious nature, inquisitive, wondering. Hearing the mention of God, sparks the curiosity, (and why believers are invoked, to speak about God), and the listener become curious, and want to hear more, and as they hear the Word of God: He enlightens, He begins giving them Faith......

Now the man...continue to listen? Life interrupts his listening? The World is saying, work, work, work, run the kids, TV 24-7 can't miss a program, a movie, a sports event, wait, wait, wait, in lines, in traffic, electronics, blah, blah....AND? A week passes by, then two, then 6 months....and Life is just too busy for God. Who has time to hear, read about God?

The man is falling away, from being enlightened, from receiving faith from God....

He never stuck it out long enough to really KNOW IF he truly believes, or IF he wanted to COMMIT to God. And, in the meantime - God has Stopped enlightening the man, and giving the man Faith.

Perhaps the man WILL slow down a bit in his busy life, and try again, listening to the Word of God; and again God will be enlightening the man, giving the man faith.

Or perhaps the man WILL never again be interested to hear and be enlightened, and receive faith.

Point being, some people confuse the beginning of "enlightment" and the beginning of receiving "faith", as an ENDING 'action'...

Nothing is EFFECT, without preparation first.
(You do not EAT a meal, before the meal is prepared)

Enlightening and receiving faith from God is a beginning, A PREPARATION, for the the man to receive the gift of Forgiveness, of Salvation, of being Born Again.

God is Just.
A man wavering back and forth. Eh, hearing for awhile, then not, then hearing for awhile, then not; is simply the man in his own individual life, deciding if he has time to fit God in his daily life, or not.

It is not the man Becoming Saved, then unsaved, then Saved, then unsaved, as some indicate is possible.

The Preparation, (enlightening and receiving faith), is precisely a Preparation, for the man, to take the NEXT unwavering Step, which is:

Commitment. The Commitment, is when a man calls on the Lords Name, and truly is committing in faithfulness in the thoughts of his heart, to believe in God and His Word.

How does a man know, WHEN to do that?

Back to the mystery of God.
A man who continues to hear, continues to be enlightened, and given faith (in his heart), BY God. God is preparing the mans Heart with Faith, and when the mans heart is filled with Faith; it is the mans internal feeling, (given him by God), for the man to know, he is Prepared to COMMIT to God.

NOW, when the man Commits to God, to His Word.....the man has just Given God, the mans oath, FOR GOD, to Prepare the man For an eternal Life with God.

God IS Holy, thus what is WITH Him, He also makes WHOLLY WHOLE and holy.

And the First step God does is FORGIVE the mans entire UNholiness, Unrighteousness.

He forgives, and covers the mans unholiness, unrighteousness.......COVERS WITH WHAT?

Himself, WHO IS "LIGHT".

Unholiness, unrighteousness, IS DARKNESS.
Light overcomes darkness.
Light IS Gods Power, who IS Christ.

When God OVERCOMES darkness in a man...
Darkness is eradicated, and is no more, to be seen or remember.

Where Pure Light (which IS God), exists, Darkness CAN NOT ENTER.

To another point.
The mans Salvation is secure and forever.
The mans Born again spirit is secure and forever.

The Spirit of God, is FOREVER with the man.

How does a man thereafter SIN, and fall into Darkeness, with the Spirit of God within the man?

Curious, since so many, claim, AFTER committing to the Lord, they claim the Power of the Lord is within them.....BUT that they STILL SIN.

How is that possible, for the Lords Power to be IN a man, WHILE the mans power supersedes Gods Power, and the man sins?

God Bless,
Taken

brakelite said:

LOL yeah, right.

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Food / Drink

You could worry about what you eat and drink.
Let me help you out with that.

Gods design -
Well water. Well? Has a nice ring to it, eh?
Like...drink from the well, and be well.

Food...Locally grown, Fresh, not preserved.

Mans design -
Urine, Urine from bodies inundated with all kinds of drugs, drugs flushed, slag from processing aluminum, chemicals, and "fresh" out of your tap. Drink, cook, wash; yum, yum.

Food....imported on the edge of spoiled, processed, junk added to preserve: yum, yum.

And hey, pretty sure, these things are no surprise to God, and that we all have a prepared appointment with death.
So, no, I do not worry about what I eat or drink.

God Bless,
Taken

APAK said:

Taken: It took me years to really understand that a true believer in Christ does not sin per se.

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And why would he think he does?

We have to review HOW the Word of God is taught and BY WHOM.

The teaching was first, BY obedience to the Law. The Law was given to the Hebrews, the Jews. And WORKS were highly important. Not only important but CALLED a SIN, if a work did not measure up to Glorifying God.

How do Christians learn the Word of God?
Hebrew texts, Word of God given them, they wrote.
Jewish texts, Word of God given them, they wrote.

And? Them believing in the coming of their Messiah was old ancient Hebrew teaching.

Their Messiah arriving on earth, was shockingly new....He did not come in a fashion expected. A carpenter's son, no wealth, no pomp, from some little unimportant town....HUH? This is the grand Messiah???

This is he who is going to give the Jews peace from their enemies? Pffft!!

Thus saying, always teaching something new, from the very beginning, was first familiar to a man with SOMETHING, then teach spiritual things, by analogy to what the man is already familiar with.

For example - God taught relationships. A man, a woman, children, sons, daughters, fathers, wives. Man, husband is the head of the household, tribe, family.

Moses taught - God is the father OF all households.

In the new testament Jewish men are teaching Jewish men something UNEXPECTED, in the Jewish Messiah.
He came to earth in the likeness as a man.
While ON earth, His Power was revealed...
(Thus the revealing is He who IS Gods Power, IS God, and why the Jews KNEW, Jesus was making Himself God, by the things Jesus claimed, and precisely why they wanted to KILL Him, for blasphemy).

So, the Jews are learning some new things about their Messiah. Some can accept, some can't.

Yet How Jews taught Jews, was still on familiar terms with the Jews being taught.

Aweeeee, hey brother, you did such and such,
You know according to the law, that is a SIN.
Repent, repent, repent...

But what about that? Was it a SIN? Sure, "according to the Law", whether saved or not, the Law did not become VOID, until one UNDERSTANDS, when the Law becomes VOID.

So WHEN does the law become VOID?
The LAW BECAME VOID, when Jesus FULFILLED IT..

However the LAW does NOT become VOID, until a man ACCEPTS Jesus fulfilled it.

IOW, Jews in the process of learning ABOUT Jesus, were learning, how to UNlearn subjection TO THE LAW. Was that instant?
No.

And Christians (broad term, ie those following Christ and believing Him....were learning and accepting His fulfillment of the LAW. What law? Remember, Gentiles, were not subject to the law to begin with. So how do they know what was fulfilled? Jesus fulfilled Laws revealed in Isaiah....So, to a Gentile, who's Isaiah?

So there is a whole mix of individuals to consider. Jews steeped in history of God, godly things, godly rules, laws, works, sin for disobedience to the law....
And Gentiles, going huh, what, who...
And Gentiles steeped in idolatry...
And newborns, children, steep in ...nothing.
Different appearences, cultures, customs, traditions, languages, status, jurisdictions, etc...

And no shortage of prophets, teachers, preacher, philosophers, anxious to shout out what others MUST believe.

Point being...none of this is a surprise to God.

Point being...STOP, THINK, Read, Hear, WHAT IS the BOTTOM LINE ONE THING DOES GOD want from ANYMAN?

TRUE BELIEF IN HIM.
BOTTOM LINE....TRUE BELIEF IN HIM.

And when a man SUBMITS unto God with True Belief in God and the Word of God....

WHAT? What is the first thing God does?
FORGIVE YOU.
FOR WHAT?
Uh...NOT BELIEVING IN HIM!
And?
For CORRUPTING your SOUL, that was IN YOUR DISBELIEVING SELF.

So what IS the ONE SIN you might think you could possibly commit, once saved and born again?

Uh....To again NOT BELIEVE in GOD, to again, Corrupt your soul.

And that is possible HOW? It isn't!
Why? Because the Power of God KEEPS such a man IN BELIEF FOREVER.

But what IF a man SAYS, he "WAS" saved, and "NOW" does not believe?

We know he was never saved in the first place....Because WE KNOW, Gods Power KEEPS all those HE TRANSFORMS.

SO what about all this teaching that, ONCE saved, and you do not do works to Glorify God....you are sinning.

Wait...Before you were saved, was it a SIN unto you, to not do good works?

If so, HOW so? Were you a Jew, violating Jewish Law? Were you subject to Jewish Law? No, and no.

You were born IN SIN, and men remain in SIN, separated from God, UNTIL, God transforms the man.

Once transformed, what SIN can you commit?

Cheat on your spouse? And? IS that a Sin against God? No. Why not? Because you acted against your spouse, not God.
Remember you were born against God, and became reconciled TO God, you are never again able to BE Against God.

IS that a Sin against your spouse? No.
Because there are provisions for you to ask another person for forgiveness, and you have provision to give forgiveness to other persons.

And men do not forgive sins. Only God forgives sins. Sin is Against God, and only He forgives what is Against Him.

So.... Well what is it?
It is a trespass against your spouse.
People can forgive trespasses.

And a "bonus" if you will. God shall forgive YOUR trespasses, IF you forgive those who trespass against you.

So WHY teach to not CHEAT, if it is not a sin?

Well, what Scripture teaches, along with HOW to do works that glorify God....it also teaches how to live in harmony with other people.

Cheating, lying, sneaking, blah, blah....are risks people routinely take....and oops are routinely caught in their deceptions....and oops....there goes the HARMONY...the strife, the grief, the financial burden, the wayward plans, the depression, the number of people involved who suffer, the loss of home, job, freedom.....all kinds of things result, and many times the hardship lasts for years....

Does such a thing; VOID your forgiveness of God, of sin against Him, your salvation, your quickened spirit? No.

Remember, God never promised men would be without hardships....and for certain, He knew men would bring it upon themselves...
And Priase God, He Did promise to be a Comforter to one going through a hardship.

And until men are maturing, they certainly WILL make dumb choices, and do dumb things, can certainly suffer the consequences of DIS-harmony, and afterward, feel ashamed and foolish. It's a life lesson. Feeling ashamed and foolish catches up with a man, that he hates that feeling and begins to figure out HOW to balance, make wise decisions, and maintain harmony in his life.....ah maturity!

Churches teach, preachers teach, men teach....repeatedly....MEN CONTINUE TO SIN, after becoming saved and born again....

Which is false. Men continue to trespass, and men are supposed to deal with their own trespasses and suffer the consequences of their trespasses and learn from their stupid mistakes and lean on God for Comfort and be praying for Gods Wisdom, because it is obvious men ARE WEAK when they are willing to take risks, and jeopardize their own harmony of themselves and loved ones.

Gods forgiveness is NOT temporary.
Gods salvation is NOT temporary.
Gods quickening is NOT temporary.
God making a man WHOLLY WHOLE and holy is not temporary.
God making a man "HIS" son, is not temporary.

1 John 3:9

God Bless,
Taken

The sin that is committed

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I do not believe, a saved man commits sin.
I believe greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.

A saved man is in the world, but no longer OF the world.

that one senses is the work of the spirit within us that makes us repent in love,

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I already repented TO GOD and HE forgave me....He did not Forgive me and say....good luck until next time....He forgave me with His word. I do not believe there is a TIME limit on His Word. He forgave. I'm forgiven.

What is do forward, is not a sin.
My effort is to not trespass against others...
If I do, I have a recourse, Scripturally taught.
If I do works to glorify Gods Name, I shall be rewarded BY God.
If I do not works to glorify Gods Name.....whoops, I shall be called the Least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

and as a teacher that is kind and gentle. We are the ones that step out occasionally and listen to our outer self where we have no business going.

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Agree, taught precepts, that benefit us...but do not Give or Void Salvation.

It will only produce guilt, shame and try to defeat our glorious life growing within us.

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Agree with that.

Yes of course we repent at the spirit guided us, not of ourselves. It is a holy affair.

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If you are speaking of RE-REPENTING...asking God again for forgiveness....over and over....I disagree.

I trust His Forgiveness is True. Period.
I do not ask for what He has already given me. Now I ask for what I do not have....
His Wisdom, His Understanding, His Knowledge.....which is infinite....and thus so is my asking.

Another point : We do not increase in faith by ourselves. It is the work of the spirit within us that we have committed to having in out hearts, that you have occasionally pointed out.

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Agree

Once we have reached critical speed and power (faith) we are launched out of orbit (rebirth) into the heavens of the Kingdom by the wings of the spirit. We cannot go back to earth again to our old life...it is impossible.

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Your poetic words, lovely, and I agree.

Forgive my analogy and metaphors..I used to be an astronautical engineer of sorts, years ago, ..I love the heavens, it is a masterpiece of our creator.

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No need for forgive, all good. And a bit of background, interesting, thanks for sharing.

Bless you brother,
APAK

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Thank you,
God Bless,
Taken