Why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

Rollo Tamasi said:

It really surprises me that everyone on this planet makes more sense then Scripture.

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lol ya, i mean, lemme know who the winner is there

BreadOfLife said:

You were born again at Baptism.
If you fell away before you were in your 50's - that is YOUR fault.

Don't blames the Church because YOU fell away.

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That had nothing to do with salvation!!!!!!!

Are you not saved???????????

Once you understand what JESUS did for us at the cross ........... we are saved......

We can not save our self............ You do not read Eph. 2 : at the end of mypost.....????

BreadOfLife said:

And WHO is "denying" that Jesus came in the flesh??

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The entire Catholic Church denies that Jesus took on the fallen flesh nature of fallen man through their insistence that Jess was born of a sinless woman. This removes Jesus from humanity and makes Him one that did NOT partake of our nature at all...a direct contradiction to scripture.

BreadOfLife said:

The Greek word Kecharitomene that Luke used in his Gospel (v.1:28), which is the perfect passive participle, indicates a completed action with permanent result. It translates, “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.” Kecharitomene is not a mere description here. It is used as a TITLE.
The Angel didn’t say, “Hail Mary, full of grace.” He said, "Hail, "Kecharitomene."

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I would like to see the original text this comes from please.

BreadOfLife said:

And nobody said that Jesus HAD to be be born of a sinless woman.

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The Catholic Church insists that in order for Jesus to live a sinless life and be born without original sin, He needed to be born of a sinless woman. The entire concept of original sin is a corruption of scripture which removes the responsibility for sin away from the individual and places it on Adam. We sin by choice, not because we inherited original sin from our parents.

BreadOfLife said:

That's just the way God willed it.

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No, God willed that Jesus was born of the fallen nature of man, not the unfallen nature. Even Paul was so bold as to state categorically that it was necessary for Jesus to be born of sinful flesh. Speaking of Christ Paul says...


Hebrews 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

That word behoved (Gr. opheilo) is a string word and means 'under obligation', 'must', should', 'ought', indebted', duty', 'owe'. If Christ was to be a merciful and faithful High Priest , Paul says it "behoves" Him in all things to be made like His brethren. This is obligatory!! It is His duty He owes and must not avoid. Jesus cannot make reconciliation for men unless He takes His place with them and in all things becomes like them!!!! He should. He must. He ought to. He in under obligation to. He owes it. Unless He has to struggle with the same temptations men do, He cannot sympathise with them. One who has never been hungry, who has never been weak or sick, who has never struggled with temptations, is unable to fully sympathise with those who are thus afflicted.
For this reason it is necessary for Christ in all things, to become like His brethren. If He is to be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, He must Himself be "compassed with infirmity". Hebrews 4:15; 5:2. Therefore if men are afflicted, He must also be afflicted "in all their affliction". Isaiah 83:9 Christ Himself testifies "I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not My face from shame and spitting". Isaiah 50:5,6.
He "Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses" Matthew 8:17.In nothing Christ spared Himself. These experiences were all necessary if Christ was to be a merciful High Priest. Now, He can sympathise withj every child of humanity, for He knows hunger by actual experience and weakness and temptation and sorrow and affliction and pain, and feeling forsaken of God and man. He has been tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15 It is the fact that Christ was born in the likeness of fallen flesh that enabled HIm to be the sympathising High Priest that He is.
If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succour us. But our Saviour took humanity with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured.

For the Catholic Church to teach as she does that Christ was NOT born of the fallen nature of Adam but was exempt from that handicap through being born of a sinless woman, is to deny truth...it sets in the mind that Jesus overcame because He had an advantage over us therefore we cannot overcome sin. It sets in the mind the idea that we can get to heaven without having to repent of sin. It sets in the mind that sinners will eventually get to heaven (either through Purgatory or a miracle at the second coming) which completely negates true sanctification and removes the necessary and essential doctrine of Christ's mediatorial role in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest. IT pretends that the atoning work of salvation was finished at the cross and all we need is to accept Christ regardless of our obedience or lack thereof subsequent to our "acceptance of salvation".
On another note it pretends that Christ didn't really truly die at Calvary. That because He was divine, He couldn't die. Sorry, but a human sacrifice, no matter how worthy, was insufficient to atone for offenses against deity. If deity was transgressed against, then only deity could redeem the transgressor. I pray you may have a mind open enough to understand the consequences and ramifications that evolve from the false concept of the "immaculate conception".

There is no [[[[[[[[[[ Purgatory ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] !

brakelite said:

The entire Catholic Church denies that Jesus took on the fallen flesh nature of fallen man through their insistence that Jess was born of a sinless woman. This removes Jesus from humanity and makes Him one that did NOT partake of our nature at all...a direct contradiction to scripture.

I would like to see the original text this comes from please.


The Catholic Church insists that in order for Jesus to live a sinless life and be born without original sin, He needed to be born of a sinless woman. The entire concept of original sin is a corruption of scripture which removes the responsibility for sin away from the individual and places it on Adam. We sin by choice, not because we inherited original sin from our parents.
No, God willed that Jesus was born of the fallen nature of man, not the unfallen nature. Even Paul was so bold as to state categorically that it was necessary for Jesus to be born of sinful flesh. Speaking of Christ Paul says...


Hebrews 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

That word behoved (Gr. opheilo) is a string word and means 'under obligation', 'must', should', 'ought', indebted', duty', 'owe'. If Christ was to be a merciful and faithful High Priest , Paul says it "behoves" Him in all things to be made like His brethren. This is obligatory!! It is His duty He owes and must not avoid. Jesus cannot make reconciliation for men unless He takes His place with them and in all things becomes like them!!!! He should. He must. He ought to. He in under obligation to. He owes it. Unless He has to struggle with the same temptations men do, He cannot sympathise with them. One who has never been hungry, who has never been weak or sick, who has never struggled with temptations, is unable to fully sympathise with those who are thus afflicted.
For this reason it is necessary for Christ in all things, to become like His brethren. If He is to be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, He must Himself be "compassed with infirmity". Hebrews 4:15; 5:2. Therefore if men are afflicted, He must also be afflicted "in all their affliction". Isaiah 83:9 Christ Himself testifies "I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not My face from shame and spitting". Isaiah 50:5,6.
He "Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses" Matthew 8:17.In nothing Christ spared Himself. These experiences were all necessary if Christ was to be a merciful High Priest. Now, He can sympathise withj every child of humanity, for He knows hunger by actual experience and weakness and temptation and sorrow and affliction and pain, and feeling forsaken of God and man. He has been tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15 It is the fact that Christ was born in the likeness of fallen flesh that enabled HIm to be the sympathising High Priest that He is.
If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succour us. But our Saviour took humanity with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured.

For the Catholic Church to teach as she does that Christ was NOT born of the fallen nature of Adam but was exempt from that handicap through being born of a sinless woman, is to deny truth...it sets in the mind that Jesus overcame because He had an advantage over us therefore we cannot overcome sin. It sets in the mind the idea that we can get to heaven without having to repent of sin. It sets in the mind that sinners will eventually get to heaven (either through Purgatory or a miracle at the second coming) which completely negates true sanctification and removes the necessary and essential doctrine of Christ's mediatorial role in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest. IT pretends that the atoning work of salvation was finished at the cross and all we need is to accept Christ regardless of our obedience or lack thereof subsequent to our "acceptance of salvation".
On another note it pretends that Christ didn't really truly die at Calvary. That because He was divine, He couldn't die. Sorry, but a human sacrifice, no matter how worthy, was insufficient to atone for offenses against deity. If deity was transgressed against, then only deity could redeem the transgressor. I pray you may have a mind open enough to understand the consequences and ramifications that evolve from the false concept of the "immaculate conception".

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And Breadman goes down again.

Rollo Tamasi said:

It really surprises me that everyone on this planet makes more sense then Scripture.

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It's even more perplexing how a lot of people read things into Scripture that just aren't there.
Sola Scriptura being one of them . . .

Grams said:

That had nothing to do with salvation!!!!!!!
Are you not saved???????????
Once you understand what JESUS did for us at the cross ........... we are saved......
We can not save our self............ You do not read Eph. 2 : at the end of mypost.....????

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It's pretty obvious that you weren't raised on Scripture because the Bible says differently:

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

1 Pet. 3:21
This prefigured BAPTISM, which saves you now.

St. Paul uses the terms, “circumcision of the heart” and the “circumcision of Christ” (Romans 2:29, Col. 2:12-17) to describe the reality of Baptism being a spiritually inward act, not merely an outward sign. The Old Testament type that was circumcision is now Baptism.

BreadOfLife said:

It's pretty obvious that you weren't raised on Scripture because the Bible says differently:

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

1 Pet. 3:21
This prefigured BAPTISM, which saves you now.

St. Paul uses the terms, “circumcision of the heart” and the “circumcision of Christ” (Romans 2:29, Col. 2:12-17) to describe the reality of Baptism being a spiritually inward act, not merely an outward sign. The Old Testament type that was circumcision is now Baptism.

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If you were raised on Scripture, then someone missed the mark.

Grams said:

There is no [[[[[[[[[[ Purgatory ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] !

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That's NOT what the Bible says . . .

Since Revelation 21:27 tells us that nothing unclean can enter heaven, a final purification or "purgation" is necessary for some before entering heaven.

We read in 1 Cor. 3:12-15. It says that the day of judgment will disclose the foundation that a person builds upon and how it will be revealed:
“If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”

This isn't Heaven, because the person will SUFFER LOSS.
This isn't Hell because the person WILL BE SAVED.
This is talking about a THIRD state - a state of purification or "purgation" before entering Heaven.

There are MANY verses that describe God handing out his justice as a Refiner. A refiner is someone who takes the raw material for metal and actually gets the gold and silver and iron from that material - and he does it with FIRE. We see in Malalchi 3:3, Jeremiah 6:27-30, Ezekiel 22:18, Psalm 119:119, Psalm 37:20, Zech. 13:9, Isa 48:10, where God is the Refiner who burns away the impurities to get to the precious metal – the gold and silver.

Matt. 5:25-26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.”

Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there IS purification after death for some.

Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

Rollo Tamasi said:

If you were raised on Scripture, then someone missed the mark.

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Sooooo, show me HOW I missed the mark.
Instead of impotent one-line responses - try refuting what I said.

Purgatory.
If you believe in this fairy tale, then let me buy you and your friends some marshmallows and soda and you can have a lot of fun.

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph. 2:

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

brakelite said:

The entire Catholic Church denies that Jesus took on the fallen flesh nature of fallen man through their insistence that Jess was born of a sinless woman. This removes Jesus from humanity and makes Him one that did NOT partake of our nature at all...a direct contradiction to scripture.

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Uhhh, NO – it’s not.

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

WHO sinned first – Adam or Eve??
Gen. 3:6 tells us that Eve sinned first – yet Rom. 5:12 and 1 Cor. 15:21-22 tell us that sin entered the world through ADAM.

Original Sin is passed through the FATHER. Who is Jesus’s Father??

brakelite said:

I would like to see the original text this comes from please.

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Luke 1:28
καὶεἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ.

brakelite said:

The Catholic Church insists that in order for Jesus to live a sinless life and be born without original sin, He needed to be born of a sinless woman. The entire concept of original sin is a corruption of scripture which removes the responsibility for sin away from the individual and places it on Adam. We sin by choice, not because we inherited original sin from our parents.

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Yes – necessary for her to be without sine when she conceived HIM – but not conceived without sine herself. Her Immaculate Conception is how God chose to do this.

brakelite said:

No, God willed that Jesus was born of the fallen nature of man, not the unfallen nature. Even Paul was so bold as to state categorically that it was necessary for Jesus to be born of sinful flesh. Speaking of Christ Paul says...
Hebrews 2:17
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

That word behoved (Gr. opheilo) is a string word and means 'under obligation', 'must', should', 'ought', indebted', duty', 'owe'. If Christ was to be a merciful and faithful High Priest , Paul says it "behoves" Him in all things to be made like His brethren. This is obligatory!! It is His duty He owes and must not avoid. Jesus cannot make reconciliation for men unless He takes His place with them and in all things becomes like them!!!! He should. He must. He ought to. He in under obligation to. He owes it. Unless He has to struggle with the same temptations men do, He cannot sympathise with them. One who has never been hungry, who has never been weak or sick, who has never struggled with temptations, is unable to fully sympathise with those who are thus afflicted.

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And, as I already showed you – sin is passed through the FATHER – and Jesus’s Father is GOD.

brakelite said:

For this reason it is necessary for Christ in all things, to become like His brethren. If He is to be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, He must Himself be "compassed with infirmity". Hebrews 4:15; 5:2. Therefore if men are afflicted, He must also be afflicted "in all their affliction". Isaiah 83:9 Christ Himself testifies "I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not My face from shame and spitting". Isaiah 50:5,6.
He "Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses" Matthew 8:17.In nothing Christ spared Himself. These experiences were all necessary if Christ was to be a merciful High Priest. Now, He can sympathise withj every child of humanity, for He knows hunger by actual experience and weakness and temptation and sorrow and affliction and pain, and feeling forsaken of God and man. He has been tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15 It is the fact that Christ was born in the likeness of fallen flesh that enabled HIm to be the sympathising High Priest that He is.
If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succour us. But our Saviour took humanity with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured.

For the Catholic Church to teach as she does that Christ was NOT born of the fallen nature of Adam but was exempt from that handicap through being born of a sinless woman, is to deny truth...it sets in the mind that Jesus overcame because He had an advantage over us therefore we cannot overcome sin. It sets in the mind the idea that we can get to heaven without having to repent of sin. It sets in the mind that sinners will eventually get to heaven (either through Purgatory or a miracle at the second coming) which completely negates true sanctification and removes the necessary and essential doctrine of Christ's mediatorial role in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest. IT pretends that the atoning work of salvation was finished at the cross and all we need is to accept Christ regardless of our obedience or lack thereof subsequent to our "acceptance of salvation".
On another note it pretends that Christ didn't really truly die at Calvary. That because He was divine, He couldn't die. Sorry, but a human sacrifice, no matter how worthy, was insufficient to atone for offenses against deity. If deity was transgressed against, then only deity could redeem the transgressor. I pray you may have a mind open enough to understand the consequences and ramifications that evolve from the false concept of the "immaculate conception".

Click to expand...

WRONG.
Jesus is the SPOTLESS Lamb. It is ONLY because He is spotless (without sin) that he can be the perfect offering for the propitiation of sin.

Rollo Tamasi said:

Purgatory.
If you believe in this fairy tale, then let me buy you and your friends some marshmallows and soda and you can have a lot of fun.

Click to expand...

Like I told you before - instead of impotent one-line responses - try refuting what I said about the Biblical reality of Purgatory..

BreadOfLife said:

Like I told you before - instead of impotent one-line responses - try refuting what I said about the Biblical reality of Purgatory..

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Did you ever read C.S.Lewis "The Great Divorce?
You should.
It's all about you

Rollo Tamasi said:

Did you ever read C.S.Lewis "The Great Divorce?
You should.
It's all about you

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I what way?
C.S. Lewis believed in Purgatory

brakelite said:

The entire Catholic Church denies that Jesus took on the fallen flesh nature of fallen man through their insistence that Jess was born of a sinless woman. This removes Jesus from humanity and makes Him one that did NOT partake of our nature at all...a direct contradiction to scripture.

I would like to see the original text this comes from please.


The Catholic Church insists that in order for Jesus to live a sinless life and be born without original sin, He needed to be born of a sinless woman. The entire concept of original sin is a corruption of scripture which removes the responsibility for sin away from the individual and places it on Adam. We sin by choice, not because we inherited original sin from our parents.
No, God willed that Jesus was born of the fallen nature of man, not the unfallen nature. Even Paul was so bold as to state categorically that it was necessary for Jesus to be born of sinful flesh. Speaking of Christ Paul says...


Hebrews 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

That word behoved (Gr. opheilo) is a string word and means 'under obligation', 'must', should', 'ought', indebted', duty', 'owe'. If Christ was to be a merciful and faithful High Priest , Paul says it "behoves" Him in all things to be made like His brethren. This is obligatory!! It is His duty He owes and must not avoid. Jesus cannot make reconciliation for men unless He takes His place with them and in all things becomes like them!!!! He should. He must. He ought to. He in under obligation to. He owes it. Unless He has to struggle with the same temptations men do, He cannot sympathise with them. One who has never been hungry, who has never been weak or sick, who has never struggled with temptations, is unable to fully sympathise with those who are thus afflicted.
For this reason it is necessary for Christ in all things, to become like His brethren. If He is to be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, He must Himself be "compassed with infirmity". Hebrews 4:15; 5:2. Therefore if men are afflicted, He must also be afflicted "in all their affliction". Isaiah 83:9 Christ Himself testifies "I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not My face from shame and spitting". Isaiah 50:5,6.
He "Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses" Matthew 8:17.In nothing Christ spared Himself. These experiences were all necessary if Christ was to be a merciful High Priest. Now, He can sympathise withj every child of humanity, for He knows hunger by actual experience and weakness and temptation and sorrow and affliction and pain, and feeling forsaken of God and man. He has been tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15 It is the fact that Christ was born in the likeness of fallen flesh that enabled HIm to be the sympathising High Priest that He is.
If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succour us. But our Saviour took humanity with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured.

For the Catholic Church to teach as she does that Christ was NOT born of the fallen nature of Adam but was exempt from that handicap through being born of a sinless woman, is to deny truth...it sets in the mind that Jesus overcame because He had an advantage over us therefore we cannot overcome sin. It sets in the mind the idea that we can get to heaven without having to repent of sin. It sets in the mind that sinners will eventually get to heaven (either through Purgatory or a miracle at the second coming) which completely negates true sanctification and removes the necessary and essential doctrine of Christ's mediatorial role in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest. IT pretends that the atoning work of salvation was finished at the cross and all we need is to accept Christ regardless of our obedience or lack thereof subsequent to our "acceptance of salvation".
On another note it pretends that Christ didn't really truly die at Calvary. That because He was divine, He couldn't die. Sorry, but a human sacrifice, no matter how worthy, was insufficient to atone for offenses against deity. If deity was transgressed against, then only deity could redeem the transgressor. I pray you may have a mind open enough to understand the consequences and ramifications that evolve from the false concept of the "immaculate conception".

Click to expand...

Brakelite,
Are you saying Jesus sinned?
And that He had a sin nature?

BreadOfLife said:

I what way?
C.S. Lewis believed in Purgatory

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C.S.Lewis' purgatory was his imagination in his works of fiction.
Purgatory is in the great divorce

Rollo Tamasi said:

C.S.Lewis' purgatory was his imagination in his works of fiction.
Purgatory is in the great divorce

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WRONG.
The "Great Divorce" is referring to William Blake's poem The Marriage of Heaven and Hell.
C. S. Lewis showed the abject difference, hence, the "Great Divorce".

Lewis stated plainly about his belief in Purgatory:
“Our souls demand purgatory, don’t they?”

He also said:
“I assume that the process of purification will normally involve suffering. Partly from tradition; partly because most real good that has been done me in this life has involved it."