Israel is the wife of Yahweh. The Church is the Bride of Christ. I always wonder why advocates of Replacement Theology never pay any attention to: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. (Jer. 31:31-33) [emphasis mine]. Replacement Theology is a lie.
Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.
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Israel is the wife of Yahweh. The Church is the Bride of Christ. I always wonder why advocates of Replacement Theology never pay any attention to: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. (Jer. 31:31-33) [emphasis mine]. Replacement Theology is a lie.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You are still thinking with your flesh. You state you will listen to what I'm trying to show you from God's Word, and then you turn around and create a limitation upon God's Word.
In Romans 9, Apostle Paul quoted from the Book of Hosea to Roman Christians. Originally, that Hosea Scripture was given only to Ephraim and the house of Israel (ten tribe northern kingdom).
Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, 'I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God.'
KJV
If you say Paul was speaking that only to scattered Israelite Christians in Rome then, that would mean to leave out Gentiles in Christ's Salvation, and would make Paul a liar. When you think of Israel's restoration only in the 'fleshy' sense, that is the line of thought you fail to, which is against God's Word and against His Plan of Salvation, for Paul said in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but all are one in Christ Jesus. And in Romans 9 there with what Apostle Paul said, it includes the Gentiles with flesh born Israelite believers as one body.
Funny how that seems to go hand in hand, the misrepresenting scriptures & misrepresenting our statements also.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I disagree, and for good reason. It's because our Lord Jesus gave us the signs leading up to the day of His return, even within three and one half days per Revelation 11, but we don't know what specific day that is. Like Apostle Paul said in 1 Thess.5, the day of The Lord is not to take us by surprise, and the reason is because we are supposed to know the 'times and the seasons' of Christ's coming. If you choose to ignore those signs, then you may as well believe on men's doctrines like a pre-trib rapture too, for like you, they also believe Christ's coming can happen at any moment.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I don't think you fully understand that future time regarding man's estate. The only type of death remaining in that time is the "second death", which is the casting into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign. His millennial kingdom is not one of flesh; there won't be some in a resurrection body and others still in the flesh body of today.
As for those in His millennial kingdom that serve Him directly at His table, those are shown in Ezekiel 44, and are called the Zadok (The Just). Those represent Christ's elect of His Church.
Ex 19:6
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
KJV
1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
KJV
Wow! There's Peter quoting Exodus AND... Hosea like Apostle Paul did! Who was Peter speaking to? to Israelites only? No, to both believing Israel and believing Gentiles, i.e., Christ's Church!
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Nope. Assertion has no merit since it doesn’t meet the evidentiary requirement of the scripture. I told you what that requirement is.
I just love it how the Lord provided a check and balance method. Since I started using it, far easier to sort truth from fiction.
And if an assertion doesn’t meet the evidentiary requirement, I really don’t have to waste any time entertaining it. We really should give those Bereans in Acts 17 more credit than we do.
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Might want to go back and study Isaiah 65, Zechariah 14, Psalms 2, etc if you think there is no more sin or death in the Messianic Kingdom. And the kingdom parables of Matthew 13 also paint the same picture. And the rebellion of the nations in Revelation 20 is after the 1000 years of the kingdom. And that corresponds to Psalms 2.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I gave you another Bible example with the comparison of what Apostle Peter said in 1 Peter 2:9 about those in Christ being a "holy nation" and "royal priesthood" linked to Exodus 19:6 where God was speaking originally to the children of Israel only. That definitely fulfills any dual witness requirement per God's Word.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I gave you TWO BIBLE WITNESSES about the believing Gentiles joined with believing Israel under Christ Jesus. You said nothing.
The explanations Apostle Paul gave in 1 Corinthians 15 about the resurrection also pulls from Isaiah 25 about death being swallowed up in victory, which apparently you have missed in favor of Jewish traditions.
Isa 25:5-9
5 Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers, as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low.
6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9 And it shall be said in that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."
KJV
That's one of the places Paul was teaching about the resurrection from, which of course includes the 'change' at the 'twinkling of an eye' of those still alive on earth on the last trumpet. Most brethren think Paul was speaking only of Christ's Church on earth being changed to the "spiritual body" on that day. All nations still alive on earth on that day will be changed to the "spiritual body" also.
The difference with the remaining sin and death is not by the flesh though, but by one's spiritual body with soul cast into the lake of fire at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign. And that casting into the lake of fire is called the "second death" in Rev.20.
On the day of The Lord, God's consuming fire is going to burn man's works off the surface of this earth, and all peoples still alive on earth will be changed, suddenly at an instant, to the spiritual body, a body of incorruption. The flesh being changed to a body of incorruption is not... all that is required for eternal life. Still being subject to the "second death" means that body of incorruption along with their soul is still in a 'liable to die' condition being without Faith on Christ Jesus. This also is the "resurrection of damnation" Jesus mentioned in John 5:28-29.
But those in Christ who remained faithful (like the above 9 shows) will have put on a body of incorruption AND their mortal soul will have put on immortality through Faith on Christ Jesus, thus these are the "first resurrection" of Rev.20 and never subject to the "second death."
You have made it into something I didn't say. I didn't say that there is "a different salvational plan"--we are ALL saved through the Blood of Jesus. But it applies differently to different people. A little baby who dies is saved by the Blood of Jesus but it does not require confession and repentance on his/her part because they have not sinned (and they would be unable to confess and repent anyway). A Jew who receives salvation must understand that Jesus is the longed-for Messiah of Israel. It does them no good to agree that He was a "nice Jewish man" who "said a lot of good things"--a "good moral teacher". A Gentile who comes to Him does not have to recognize the Law of Moses--merely the Ten Commandments and especially the ones quoted by Jesus. Jews were told to celebrate the festivals of Yahweh always--it is part of their inheritance--one that will come into force in the Millennial Kingdom. As a side note, it really is rather silly when Gentiles try to become Jews, figuring that somehow makes them holier. That question was settled early in the life of the Church. It is apparently saying that the Blood of Jesus is not enough. The Apostle Paul puts down that line of reasoning pretty effectively. The Blood of Jesus is the most powerful force in the universe. Through Him, all things are held together. (Colossians 1:17)
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, yet another one who doesn't understand the concept of GOD's Israel.
The name 'Israel' was given to Jacob because he wrestled with the Angel and prevailed. It's the idea of overcoming with God's help, which is what Jesus told all the Churches in Asia. Thus the word 'Israel' is forever tied to The Gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is linked to the Promise by Faith which God first gave through Abraham.
GOD's BIRTHRIGHT:
God has a Birthright He gave to the seed that Christ would be born of. But it was for ALL PEOPLES, and not just the children called Israel.
TRANSFER OF GOD'S BIRTHRIGHT:
1. first given to Abraham, and included The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. That is the Promise by Faith, not by works, and it was given Abraham 430 years PRIOR to the law (Galatians 3).
2. then the Birthright went to Abraham's son Isaac. This has been a point of contention even to today, as the sons of Ishmael believe that Israel stole their birthright from Abraham, since Abraham's firstborn son was Ishmael from Sarah's handmaiden Hagar. But God had already promised the seed would be from Abraham and Sarah, which was Isaac.
3. then the Birthright went from Isaac to his son Jacob. Jacob would have twelve sons, the firstborn being Reuben. But he defiled his father's bed, sleeping with one of Jacob's concubines. The Birthright then went to Jacob's son Joseph. (1 Chronicles 5)
4. then the Birthright went from Joseph to his sons Ephraim and Manasseh. That is where it stopped, and still is today. The Gospel has always... been a part of God's Birthright. Jacob (Israel) in the transfer to Joseph's two sons said to let his name (Israel) be named upon the two lads (Gen.48). And he blessed the younger Ephraim over his elder brother Manasseh. Jacob said Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.48). That means a multitude of ISRAELITE NATIONS.
Thusly, The Gospel of Jesus Christ has always... been what God's True Israel has been about, even in Old Testament times. Only the faithful chosen of the seed kept that Faith of The Gospel first given through Abraham. The rest were cut off because of rebellion.
Yet no one from the cult of Jehovah witnesses can speak the truth that is in the Bible because they are not taught it. You are promoting Replacement Theology.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as "Replacement Theology". That is simply a term the Jews have come up with, because they don't understand God's Biblical concept of Israel in The Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The New Covenant is about the Promise by Faith God first gave through Abraham 430 years before the law. Those of Faith have become the children of Abraham like Paul said. Apostle Paul made this plain in Galatians 3, a chapter many Jews try to deny.
Galatians also is very relevant; we stand fast in Christian liberty, and we don't go back to the bondage of the law.
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
I would disagree in that, as you are replacing one group with another or at a minimum, merging the two. The Covenant with the Hebrew people was a corporate Covenant. The Covenant with the believers is individually. The New Covenant is with the same corporate Hebrew people as the Sinai Covenant. Israel was and will be again the wife of YHVH, the believers in the church make up the bride of Yeshua. It is schizophrenia to say that the believers are now the virgin bride of Yeshua when they were the wife of YHVH.
Be careful of Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9.
Romans and Hebrews also come to mind.
We are going through Galatians these days in our local church Bible study. I am struck by the strength and frequency of Paul's warnings to the Galatians (particularly since many of them were from a Jewish background) not allow themselves to slip back into a law-keeping mentality.
A proper understanding of the Abrahamic Covenant shows that within that covenant:
1. Christ is the seed of Abraham
2. The Church (all believers) is the seed of Abraham
3. Redeemed and restored Israel is also the seed of Abraham.
The land of Israel was NOT given to the Church but to the 12 tribes of Israel. Therefore Replacement Theology is bogus.
EZEKIEL 48 (THE LAND OF ISRAEL AFTER THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST)
1 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
2 And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
3 And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.
4 And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.
5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah...
23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.
24 And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion.
25 And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.
26 And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.
27 And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad aportion.
28 And by the border of Gad, at the south side southward, the border shall be even from Tamar unto the waters of strife in Kadesh, and to the river toward the great sea.
29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
You are confusing earthly, spiritual and eternal realities.
The body of Christ has two heirs, church and Israel.
The church is neither Jew or Gentile.
When the church raptures the Jew and Gentile division returns on the earth.
In eternity the new Jerusalem has the foundation of the 12 apostles and the gates of the 12 tribes.
The reality of bride of Christ and wife of God never ceases. But it will take on new meaning.
You keep forgetting Jesus Christ's flesh as king on a human throne, the throne of David, a human.
His spirit is God on the throne of God.
The Bible never hints that all differences will disappear. It never tells us where the Saints who were neither Israel or church will be.
You're trying to make something beyond our understanding simple and understandable to humans.
Keraz
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Funny? What is serious, is the total failure of the 'rapture' proponents to provide any scripture to prove their belief.
I put up plenty that proved how the apostate Jews will be decimated by the Lord on His Day of fiery wrath. Those verses plainly prophesied what will happen, no 'misrepresentation' or misunderstanding there.
Your fav 'rapture' notion is a crock, you have been fooled by the 'wolves in sheeps clothing'. Dr David Jeremiah is a prime example, he speaks so nicely, but what he preaches is false teaching, that 'tickles the ears' and many have believed the lie.
Lady Crosstalk has put me on 'ignore' for posting scriptures that contradict her beliefs. Is that wise? Or even sensible?
Time to believe the truth, before its too late!
Believe Paul; 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, Romans 1:18 Believe Peter; 1 Peter 4:12, 2 Peter 3:7 Believe Jesus: Matthew 3:10-12, Luke 21:25-26 Plus every OT prophet except Jonah, tells us in great detail, about this forthcoming Day of fire, that will affect everyone.
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