Men's Hearts Failing them for Fear the Sea Waves Roaring!!!

I would see a difference between the rapture and the events following the great tribulation.

PS: Part of the matter revolves around whether a passage relates to the church or Israel, which in Scripture are distinct.

GISMYS_7 said:

At the rapture, all believers dead and alive receive new immortal bodies and are caught up into the clouds and go to be with Jesus while on earth the years of anti-christ rule, the years of the great tribulation judgments,the battle of Armageddon come upon this evil, God rejecting world then Jesus returns we rapture believers return with Him to earth to defeat all evil and set up His kingdom here and we believers rule with Him!!! PTL.

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Not one Bible Scripture exists to support that theory from men.

What actually is... written, is that Christ's Church will... go through... the great tribulation time. And then at the end of that... Jesus comes to gather His Church, both from heaven and from the earth. And then... Jesus with His Church... will set foot ON EARTH at the Mount of Olives and a great valley will be formed. That is where Christ's elect will rule over all nations with "a rod of iron."

Davy said:

Not one Bible Scripture exists to support that theory from men.

What actually is... written, is that Christ's Church will... go through... the great tribulation time. And then at the end of that... Jesus comes to gather His Church, both from heaven and from the earth. And then... Jesus with His Church... will set foot ON EARTH at the Mount of Olives and a great valley will be formed. That is where Christ's elect will rule over all nations with "a rod of iron."

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What actually is... written, is that Christ's Church will... go through... the great tribulation time. And then at the end of that... Jesus comes to gather His Church, both from heaven and from the earth.

Davy, Nope! It is not written that "Christ's Church will... go through... the great tribulation", not all of it..

The chronology is all laid out in Rev 6 & 7. "When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth? They were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also." Rev 6

So for martyrs to continue to be killed, the saints must still be here on earth, because there will be no saints here after the rapture For those left behind "They did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts." Rev 9:21.

I believe that the saints will be here during the first 5 or perhaps even 6th seal. I view the Tribulation in two parts. The first 6 seals are sort of a lesser Tribulation, sort of a warm up in preparation for the second part, the GREAT Tribulation, when God releases His full fury on those are left here after the rapture, as the 7th seal is opened. The time for the gentiles accepting Christ is over, because when the saints are raptured, the Holy Spirit goes with them, since their bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. So now "he that restraineth is taken out of the way. The times of the gentiles are over as the 144,000 Jews are sealed. Rev 7

3. After the sixth seal, "I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb". “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come OUT of the Great Tribulation. Rev 7:9

GISMYS_7 said:

Jesus says to pray that you are counted worthy to escape the last day's judgments Matthew 24 as we believers (church) are not appointed to wrath!! those that become believers AFTER the rapture are the believers that must try to live under anti-christ rule and the years of the great tribulation judgments.

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I guess you also believe stars will be hitting the earth?
Think about it!

GISMYS_7 said:

2000 years ago and some even today man called meteors falling stars!!!! Is that really the best satan has???

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You think I’m Satan?

GISMYS_7 said:

Many allow satan to inspire them,blind them, deceive them, use them as his tool!!!

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Meditate on that.

GISMYS_7 said:

LOL!!! So you think I DID NOT THINK ABOUT WHAT I was saying in my post before I posted it??? Dream on!!

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You don’t have to it’s a neurotic loop

farouk said:

I would see a difference between the rapture and the events following the great tribulation.

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Correct. We need to see the proper sequence of events which are to come.

1. The present Great Apostasy
2. The Resurrection/Rapture
3. The reign of Satan and the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years
4. The Tribulation corresponding to that period
5. The Great Tribulation for the next 3 1/2 years
6. The cataclysmic cosmic events (signs in the sun, moon, and stars)
7. The Second Coming of Christ with His saints and angels
8. Everything which follows the Second Coming.

So the focus of Christians today must not be on the future disasters which are to come up this earth, but on the propagation of the Gospel and the work of the Kingdom of God.

And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Mt 24:14)

Stan B said:

Davy, Nope! It is not written that "Christ's Church will... go through... the great tribulation", not all of it..

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I strongly disagree. There is only ONE return of our Lord Jesus Christ, and as God's Word reveals, that return is "as a thief" on the "day of the Lord" (Revelation 16:15; 1 Thessalonians 5; 2 Peter 3:10). That is when He will gather His Church to go to Jerusalem, on the 7th Vial.

The chronology is all laid out in Rev 6 & 7. "When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth? They were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also." Rev 6

So for martyrs to continue to be killed, the saints must still be here on earth, because there will be no saints here after the rapture For those left behind "They did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts." Rev 9:21.

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I understand Revelation 9 differently. The main killing is spiritual, by what comes out of the MOUTHS of the locust army. Those locusts link to the endtime prophecies written in the Book of Joel. The wicked are already in Satan's hand. That is why they don't repent. The main ones 'killed' by the locusts are the deceived, especially those who fall away. That is what comes out of the mouths of the locusts is designed to do. Remember Rev.9:4-5, they aren't allowed to kill those but only 'sting' them for "five months" (shortened time). It's all about spiritual death through their deceptions. The end of Rev.12 about the flood out of the serpent's mouth is a parallel. For Christ's elect, we are under His spiritual protection during that period, but not all of us will be under physical protection. The only ones subject to the 'sting' by the locusts are those NOT sealed with God's seal, and they can't kill them. But Christ's elect who cannot be deceived at the end, they can be killed, and thus the actual tribulation martyrs which Rev.6 is talking about.

I believe that the saints will be here during the first 5 or perhaps even 6th seal. I view the Tribulation in two parts. The first 6 seals are sort of a lesser Tribulation, sort of a warm up in preparation for the second part, the GREAT Tribulation, when God releases His full fury on those are left here after the rapture, as the 7th seal is opened. The time for the gentiles accepting Christ is over, because when the saints are raptured, the Holy Spirit goes with them, since their bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. So now "he that restraineth is taken out of the way. The times of the gentiles are over as the 144,000 Jews are sealed. Rev 7

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I see the 6th Seal covering two periods, the great trib time, and then the "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes. The untimely figs idea is about the literal winter fig that grows early in the winter and falls off in the spring. Harvest time is summer by the analogies our Lord Jesus gave.

The one restraining Satan in 2 Thess.2 is most likely about the Archangel Michael (see Daniel 10). Per Rev.12:7-9, it is Michael and his angels that fight against Satan and his angels, for the end.

3. After the sixth seal, "I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb". “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come OUT of the Great Tribulation. Rev 7:9

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Revelation 7 is about all those being sealed with God's seal in prep for the great tribulation (see Rev.7:1-3). Just as Apostle Paul made the distinction between both believing Israel and believing Gentile in Christ's Church, same thing in Rev.7. Difference is that only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi among the 144,000 represent believing Jews in Christ. The rest are ten lost tribe Israelites scattered among the Gentiles that became part of Christ's Church. The "great multitude" represent the believing Gentiles in Christ's Church.

Davy said:

I strongly disagree. There is only ONE return of our Lord Jesus Christ, and as God's Word reveals, that return is "as a thief" on the "day of the Lord" (Revelation 16:15; 1 Thessalonians 5; 2 Peter 3:10). That is when He will gather His Church to go to Jerusalem, on the 7th Vial.

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I was not talking about the Second Coming, nor the 144,000. I was talking about the "the great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb" . “These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation" Rev 7:9

If you disagree with the very clear message of Rev 7:9, then we don't have much to talk about. It's sort of like Davy -vs- Scripture, an easy choice for me.