Why Christians continue in sin, are they unconverted?

Hobie · Oct 14, 2019

So why do Christians continue in sin, are they still desiring and holding on to what puts them under its bondage? What must they do...

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3.

Jesus laid down the first principle of how we may become a child of God. This new spiritual birth is true conversion.

Nicodemus came one night came to have a talk with Jesus. Jesus knew where Nicodemus needed help. He told him, how we must have this new spiritual birth. Nicodemus did not understand at first. He asked Jesus, "How can a man be born when he is old?"

John 3
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"
4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" 5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying,'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

So we must be 'born of the Spirit' and be converted, so what does this mean?

Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, Except you be converted, and become as
little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3.
This does not mean that we should become childish, but childlike. A child has confidence in his parents and believes them. So we must trust and believe God.

Conversion, also called the new birth, is plainly taught in the word of God. Peter said: "Repent you.... and be converted." Acts 3:19.

Paul and Barnabas on their journey "passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren." Acts 15:3.

So we need to be converted, or to be born again. Without this experience we will not accept Christ as the Holy Spirit is what guides us to Him and truly turn from sin and be saved. Like Nicodemus many do not understand this, and think if they belong to some church, they are converted. Nicodemus belonged to a church, too, but he was not converted when he talked with Jesus. Church membership does not save, being converted by the Holy Spirit so we truly accept Christ does.

Giuliano · Oct 14, 2019

Hobie said:
So why do Christians continue in sin, are they still desiring and holding on to what puts them under its bondage? What must they do...

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3.

Jesus laid down the first principle of how we may become a child of God. This new spiritual birth is true conversion.

Nicodemus came one night came to have a talk with Jesus. Jesus knew where Nicodemus needed help. He told him, how we must have this new spiritual birth. Nicodemus did not understand at first. He asked Jesus, "How can a man be born when he is old?"

John 3
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"
4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" 5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying,'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

So we must be 'born of the Spirit' and be converted, so what does this mean?

Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, Except you be converted, and become as
little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3.
This does not mean that we should become childish, but childlike. A child has confidence in his parents and believes them. So we must trust and believe God.

Conversion, also called the new birth, is plainly taught in the word of God. Peter said: "Repent you.... and be converted." Acts 3:19.

Paul and Barnabas on their journey "passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren." Acts 15:3.

So we need to be converted, or to be born again. Without this experience we will not accept Christ as the Holy Spirit is what guides us to Him and truly turn from sin and be saved. Like Nicodemus many do not understand this, and think if they belong to some church, they are converted. Nicodemus belonged to a church, too, but he was not converted when he talked with Jesus. Church membership does not save, being converted by the Holy Spirit so we truly accept Christ does.

Why do you think Nicodemus did not understand it? Why do you think he wasn't converted?

It seems obvious to me that John and Nicodemus were friends since only John wrote about things Nicodemus would have known from being inside the Sanhedrin. Only John talks about Nicodemus too. Nicodemus defended Jesus at least once.

John 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?
46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.
47 Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived?
48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?
49 But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.
50 Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,)
51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

He also helped bury Jesus.

John 19:38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

Hobie · Oct 15, 2019

Giuliano said:
Why do you think Nicodemus did not understand it? Why do you think he wasn't converted?

It seems obvious to me that John and Nicodemus were friends since only John wrote about things Nicodemus would have known from being inside the Sanhedrin. Only John talks about Nicodemus too. Nicodemus defended Jesus at least once.

John 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?
46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.
47 Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived?
48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?
49 But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.
50 Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,)
51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

He also helped bury Jesus.

John 19:38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

The Jews thought if they made layers upon layers of laws, they could work their way to heaven by the strictest of measures. But salvation is by grace through faith and even faith itself is a gift so we have to be reborn and be transformed by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

So Nicodemus was surprised when Christ unfolded this truth.

Giuliano · Oct 15, 2019

Hobie said:
The Jews thought if they made layers upon layers of laws, they could work their way to heaven by the strictest of measures. But salvation is by grace through faith and even faith itself is a gift so we have to be reborn and be transformed by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

So Nicodemus was surprised when Christ unfolded this truth.

So you have a low opinion of Jews. I got that. You think you know things they didn't. I get that. Can we get back to the point I made?

Are you ignoring what the Scriptures say about Nicodemus later? You said he was not a convert; but John says he defended Jesus and helped at his burial. Instead of addressing that point, you have gone on to some other topic. Would you please address that point?

If all the Jews had the wrong idea about things, why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Hobie · Oct 15, 2019

Giuliano said:
So you have a low opinion of Jews. I got that. You think you know things they didn't. I get that. Can we get back to the point I made?

Are you ignoring what the Scriptures say about Nicodemus later? You said he was not a convert; but John says he defended Jesus and helped at his burial. Instead of addressing that point, you have gone on to some other topic. Would you please address that point?

If all the Jews had the wrong idea about things, why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

This is from the wiki on Orthodox Judaism, "a strict observance of Jewish Law, or halakha, which is to be interpreted and determined only according to traditional methods". I have close friends and family who are Jewish and we celebrate the Passover and many other things which they observe, but maybe you have a better perspective on this.

Nicodemus, as a strict observer of the Law, felt He was on the path leading to God and His kingdom, so it was a shock when Jesus told him he had be born again or a "spiritual rebirth".

Giuliano · Oct 15, 2019

Hobie said:
This is from the wiki on Orthodox Judaism, "a strict observance of Jewish Law, or halakha, which is to be interpreted and determined only according to traditional methods". I have close friends and family who are Jewish and we celebrate the Passover and many other things which they observe, but maybe you have a better perspective on this.

Nicodemus, as a strict observer of the Law, felt He was on the path leading to God and His kingdom, so it was a shock when Jesus told him he had be born again or a "spiritual rebirth".

If that is so, why did Nicodemus defend Jesus and help at his burial?

DoveSpirit05 · Oct 15, 2019

A Christian who's still sinning, how can it be? a Christian is not supposed 2 be sinning especially wilfully, out of ignorance ok, but if we do sin we have an advocate with the father but dat should be few and far between if at all and defiantly not wilfully.

ScottA · Oct 15, 2019

Hobie said:
So why do Christians continue in sin, are they still desiring and holding on to what puts them under its bondage? What must they do...

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3.

Jesus laid down the first principle of how we may become a child of God. This new spiritual birth is true conversion.

Nicodemus came one night came to have a talk with Jesus. Jesus knew where Nicodemus needed help. He told him, how we must have this new spiritual birth. Nicodemus did not understand at first. He asked Jesus, "How can a man be born when he is old?"

John 3
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"
4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" 5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying,'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

So we must be 'born of the Spirit' and be converted, so what does this mean?

Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, Except you be converted, and become as
little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3.
This does not mean that we should become childish, but childlike. A child has confidence in his parents and believes them. So we must trust and believe God.

Conversion, also called the new birth, is plainly taught in the word of God. Peter said: "Repent you.... and be converted." Acts 3:19.

Paul and Barnabas on their journey "passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren." Acts 15:3.

So we need to be converted, or to be born again. Without this experience we will not accept Christ as the Holy Spirit is what guides us to Him and truly turn from sin and be saved. Like Nicodemus many do not understand this, and think if they belong to some church, they are converted. Nicodemus belonged to a church, too, but he was not converted when he talked with Jesus. Church membership does not save, being converted by the Holy Spirit so we truly accept Christ does.

DoveSpirit05 said:
A Christian who's still sinning, how can it be? a Christian is not supposed 2 be sinning especially wilfully, out of ignorance ok, but if we do sin we have an advocate with the father but dat should be few and far between if at all and defiantly not wilfully.

The other aspect of continuing to sin, is rarely understood.

Many judge there brothers and sisters in Christ, or claim that they cannot even be born again because they seem to continue in sin. Indeed, it only takes one sin, to make a sinner. And certainly some who continue in sin, do so because they were in fact not born again. But it is the born again who appear to continue in sin who are misunderstood. Some even pervert the true gospel of Christ, saying that it is all a "process", rather than a "change" and "the old man" of flesh, verses "the new man" born again of the spirit of God, having "passed from death to life."

Salvation is not "a process."

The misunderstanding is this: Salvation applies to ones' whole life in the flesh, not just that part before being born again. For this reason Paul preached that we "bring our flesh under subjection of the Spirit." This he also referred to saying "those who are alive and remain", meaning that we remain in the world, but also in the flesh, that old man of death. And John adds that whoever is in Christ, "does not sin"...not meaning that the old man does not sin, but rather the new man. This is a pass given to "those who remain" in the service of God until the end. Because we have been entrusted with His righteousness, sin, before and after salvation have all been forgiven...for which the old man still suffers death. But it is also these of which Christ spoke, saying: "though he may die, he shall live."

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Why Christians continue in sin, are they unconverted?

Hobie

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Giuliano

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Hobie

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Giuliano

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Hobie

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Giuliano

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DoveSpirit05

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ScottA

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