The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

CovenantPromise · Dec 23, 2019

David Taylor said:
Here is your problem. You say truly God and truly man, but then you say it wasn't really truly man it was just the likeness, like a hologram or something. Because, in your words, a human could not do those things. Yet humans have performed miracles. But you ignore those. You have no basis to say Jesus was not truly human and just mere likeness.

And we being fully human with the divine Spirit of Christ are made in His likeness and are sent forth by Christ "AS" His Father sent Him forth= in like manner . Isn't funny we are suppose to be LIKE Him yet certain people can not comprehend that even in Genesis, it is what God intended that man's design be (Divinely Human)- to be like God. To be like God would mean knowing good and evil .Genesis 3:21- The Expulsion from Paradise
21And the LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...” 23Therefore the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.…

NO PAIN NO GAIN!

Moving forward we are to master evil by putting it to death . This God said to Cain : Genesis 4:6-7Cain and Abel
…6“Why are you angry,” said the LORD to Cain, “and why has your countenance fallen? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you refuse to do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; you are its object of desire, but you must master it.”
Everything moving forward was the process and development of the Faith revealed by God. It had stages like a child from conception with its fullness of development being- the God man. Christ is the means by which man through the fullness of God's religion -Christianity , we accomplish what God intended from the beginning- BEING LIKE GOD.
Christ is that means to put sin to death. It would seem Christ simply, is showing us the way back to Eden and innocents- going back to Him . To practice His tenets , prayerfully seeking and then finding Him within the Temple. Not reaching out anymore to what stands before us as the world but through His tenets (The Tree of Life) we read the seasons of the faith , that can be consider a twelve step program brought to us through the 12 tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles . The lessons of those of the OC show us the ebb and flow of people of faith. Their HIGHS and LOWS ,then Greater yet, the NC and its teachings which pull us up from our lowest depths , to our Greatest GOOD, and teaches us how to maintain . " Why were you looking for me everywhere, did you not know I had to be in My Father's house?"

THIS IS FOR BELIEVERS- those who already are for Christ and serve Him. There will come a point in time in every souls journey with God , that we feel like we lost God. This is a test. Those who truly love Christ start to seek Him out everywhere among others, asking and inquiring about Him. Praying , and pleading to God for help and strength, to find that faith, the most important possession we have . We back track , we keep replaying our steps.... Where did we go wrong? How did we loose our faith. And those who truly love God, do not give up, they keep seeking Him out in others on the path of life's journey. With all the looking back and reflecting we discover -HE IS IN THE TEMPLE

1 Corinthians 3:16
16Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?
Luke 2:49
49“Why were you looking for Me?” He asked. “Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house ?
With all our pleading and seeking , praying and back tracking= repenting , all our earnest seeking , we FIND, we never lost Him , He was simply about His Father's work- in us. We have simply been made to grow . We may have felt downcast , even alone , but kept seeking, scared -but did not give up, until we come to the realization , Christ is within the temple . As believers , we learn God does not give us more than we can handle and He never goes back on His promises. He did not give us Faith in order to take it away, nor to stop us in mid growth, NO! He wants a personal relationship, not just seeking Him out in others but going within and finding Him! FAITH, something you will not get from others, it is built through trials and test that only as individuals can we overcome. When people have no answers, no idea who or what you are looking for, when no one has seen, felt and held what you have , that is when you do not rest day or night, until you BEHOLD what your soul has been seeking- THE CHRIST- The Male Child within.

Merry Christmas!

Ezra · Dec 23, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
and an asinine understanding of Scripture.

adj.
Utterly stupid or silly.
adj.
Of, relating to, or resembling an ass.
Belonging to or characteristic of the ass. so BOL if the shoe fits and on you it does a perfect match .must like cinderella slipper wea it .

Taken · Dec 24, 2019

David ~

QUESTION?
Where is the text that JESUS IS A Human that came forth out of Dust of Earth ?

QUESTION?
Where is the text that HUMANS come forth out from God in Heaven?

QUESTION?
What exactly Died?

When are you going to ANSWER instead of replying with a QUESTION?

Glory to God,
Taken

brakelite · Dec 24, 2019

Taken said:
David ~

QUESTION?
Where is the text that JESUS IS A Human that came forth out of Dust of Earth ?

QUESTION?
Where is the text that HUMANS come forth out from God in Heaven?

QUESTION?
What exactly Died?

When are you going to ANSWER instead of replying with a QUESTION?

Glory to God,
Taken

You do realise surely that your concept that Christ did not come in flesh, even sinful flesh, and tempted in all points just as we are, yet without sin; if He was not human in the fullest sense of the word, then you my friend are toying with Roman Catholicism and their doctrine of the immaculate conception... Which according to 1John4:1-3 is Antichrist. We celebrate Christmas tonight, and yes, I know all about the false ideas surrounding December 25 th etc.... But the child born in that stable was a human child... As fully human as you and I... And equally fully divine as He was before the incarnation. That the sacrifice the Father made in giving His only Son to the human race... For all eternity... Reveals the far reaching parameters of that love. Never again will Jesus be as He was before the incarnation. The sacrifice was not just a 33 year long sacrifice. It was eternal... Is eternal...

Taken · Dec 24, 2019

David Taylor said:
You insist that Jesus is only deity and not human,

Yes.
Jesus is the Word of God and the maker.

John 1:
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Correct.
Jesus, the Word of God, IS NOT A HUMAN man, that came forth out of the Earth...After He MADE the Earth!

if that were true,

It IS True...It IS A Fact...
However, You: who IS A HUMAN man, out of the Earth; The Word of God, Jesus MADE...
Have freewill To Believe it or not.

which Scripture says it isn't,

Scripture Never says that IS not True.
Scripture Expressly says WHAT IS The TRUTH...

WHO IS the Bright Morning Star?
WHERE WAS the Morning StarS when the Earth was being Created and Made?

I will answer FOR you, since, you repeatedly reply with a QUESTION instead of an answer.

WHO is the Bright and Morning Star? JESUS
Rev 22
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

WHERE WAS the Morning StarS when the Earth was being Created and Made?

Job 38
[4] Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

WHERE were YOU, when God was laying the foundations of the earth?
Declare, IF YOU have understanding?

Where were the Morning StarS?

WHERE IS HEAVEN, "IF" you believe God created Heaven and then the Earth.

Gen 1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

WHAT were the MORNING StarS doing?
Singing.

WHAT were the sons of God doing?
Shouting for joy.

Gen 1
[7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

WHO are the sons of God?
Created holy spirits.

WHO are the morning starS?
(First designated SONS of God)
Jesus, the BRIGHT and morning Star.
Lucifer, a spirit created holy, but fell away from being holy, and CAST down to earth, with his NEW NAME...Saten, and description, Devil spirit.

[He could be CAST DOWN TO EARTH...UNTIL the Earth was CREATED and MADE!]

Isa 14
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

JESUS IS THE MAKER of the EARTH.
JESUS DID NOT COME FORTH OUT OF THE EARTH.
JESUS WAS SENT TO THE EARTH.

SENT TO EARTH......FROM WHERE?

John 16
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[28] I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

he would not have been able to die because God cannot, by definition, die.

Click to expand...

"HE" would not have been able to die?

I asked you....WHAT DIED?

You couldn't ANSWER.

WHAT DIED, IS the FLESH BODY, he TOOK UPON HIMSELF....WHEN HE WAS SENT INTO the WORLD!

HOW does one KNOW THIS?
Scrripture Reveals the answer.

WHAT does Jesus' BODY LOOK LIKE?
Do tell, how your HUMAN EYES can SEE God.
Oops, YOU Can't, precisely because YOU are a Human.

However Scripture tells you What AN "EARTHY" BODY IS:

Gen 1
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground...

An earthy BODY IS A FORM.
An earthy BODY IS out of the dust OF the Earth.
MEN call a man OUT OF THE EARTH...
"A HUMAN man".

WHY?
Because...there are OTHER things/BODY'S God FORMED out of the Dust of the EARTH..

Gen 2
[19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air;

MEN out of the dust of the Earth, CALL other MEN....HUMAN MEN...to Distinguish "A MAN" FROM "an ANIMAL"!

Both HUMAN men and Animals are out of the EARTH..
Both HUMAN men and Animals HAVE Gods BREATH of LIFE (a SOUL)...
YET ONLY HUMAN men, SIN, and must be Forgiven their SIN, to Become reconcilled WITH God.
(THAT ^ does not APPLY to Animals)!

SO FAR..."IF" you FOLLOW the "ORDER" that God presented BY and THROUGH "HIS WORD"... you SHOULD Understand...the TERM...HUMAN...distinguishes A "created man out of the Earth, FROM A "created animal out of the Earth.

Continued.

Ezra · Dec 24, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
This is heresy. - and an asinine understanding of Scripture.

Both you and your fellow anti-Scripturist, @Taken have been shown the undeniable truth of God:
That Jesus Christ, the 2nd Person of the Trinity is both FULLY God and FULLY Human (1 Tim. 2:5, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 2:17).

He is not “like” a human and doesn’t simply “resemble” a human – He IS human (Antrhopos). – and He IS God.

BOTH of you have twisted the Scriptures to your own destruction (2 Pet. 3:16) and continue to wallow in heresy.
Good luck with that . . .

aww BOL king of the leavened bread your CATHOLIC teaching is as the indians say in westerns on t.v BAD MEDICINE poison to the soul . so your next ignorant post you go ignore

reformed1689 · Dec 24, 2019

Taken said:
Where is the text that JESUS IS A Human that came forth out of Dust of Earth ?

You don't need one. Were YOU formed out of the dust of the earth? No, you were not. Only Adam was.

Taken said:
Where is the text that HUMANS come forth out from God in Heaven?

Well, in a sense, God does create every individual. But again, you are comparing apples and oranges here and you are not allowing for God to work a miracle.

Taken said:
What exactly Died?

Christ died. His human body died, just like our human bodies die. His spirit did not die, just as ours do not die.

Ezra · Dec 24, 2019

David Taylor said:
His human body died, just like our human bodies die

if that be the case there would be remains in the tomb not just grave clothes and napkin

reformed1689 · Dec 24, 2019

Ezra said:
if that be the case there would be remains in the tomb not just grave clothes and napkin

That is just an ignorant statement. Apparently you do not read your Bible. Matthew 20, Mark 16, John 20, Luke 24

Ezra · Dec 24, 2019

David Taylor said:
That is just an ignorant statement. Apparently you do not read your Bible. Matthew 20, Mark 16, John 20, Luke 24

so your saying his physical body returned back to earth decayed ..your getting pretty good with your little insults .. so no my statement is not as IGNORANT AS YOU SAY. in the future i will no longer answer any post with the words ignorant or any other suggestive words ... your stooping down to Bol tactics

BreadOfLife · Dec 24, 2019

Ezra said:
lol i see you been watching fantasy island ...i have retracted nothing my position has not changed .i have used scriptures not a scripture .from you all i see is insults . when you and taylor finish your meeting of the minds ..i may return to your man made theology . you remind of the summer weather we have.. we need rain black cloud roll in thunder ..but produces no rain... you make a lot of noise,, but produce no fruit

No - you're ALL over the place on this topic.
YOU have stated that:
- Jesus IS human.
- Jesus is NOT human.
- Jesus is PARTIALLY human.

When you finally make up your mind - let me know . . .

Ezra · Dec 24, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
When you finally make up your mind - let me know . . .

for you to understand you have to have a mind m.r, scare crow

BreadOfLife · Dec 24, 2019

Ezra said:
adj.
Utterly stupid or silly.

adj.
Of, relating to, or resembling an ass.

Belonging to or characteristic of the ass. so BOL if the shoe fits and on you it does a perfect match .must like cinderella slipper wea it .

Uh huh - and it's STILL not a noun.
You called me "an asinine."

THINK before you post . . .

Ezra · Dec 24, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
You called me "an asinine."

shazam Of, relating to, or resembling an ass. know what i man there vern the shoe fits it you wear it nothing personal old buddy just a observation from a definition .. i do hope the shoe is just your size cinderella.. have a merry Christmas

BreadOfLife · Dec 24, 2019

Ezra said:
aww BOL king of the leavened bread your CATHOLIC teaching is as the indians say in westerns on t.v BAD MEDICINE poison to the soul . so your next ignorant post you go ignore

Funny how NONE of your snarky responses include Scriptural refutations.
Gee - I wonder why . . .

BreadOfLife · Dec 24, 2019

Ezra said:
shazam Of, relating to, or resembling an ass. know what i man there vern the shoe fits it you wear it nothing personal old buddy just a observation from a definition .. i do hope the shoe is just your size cinderella.. have a merry Christmas

And there's STILL is no such thing as "an asinine", Einstein . . .

reformed1689 · Dec 24, 2019

Ezra said:
so your saying his physical body returned back to earth decayed

Decay doesn't start instantaneously. Do your research.

Ezra said:
so no my statement is not as IGNORANT AS YOU SAY.

Yes, actually it was.

Ezra said:
in the future i will no longer answer any post with the words ignorant or any other suggestive words

If a statement is ignorant I'm going to call it out.

Nondenom40 · Dec 24, 2019

brakelite said:
You do realise surely that your concept that Christ did not come in flesh, even sinful flesh, and tempted in all points just as we are, yet without sin; if He was not human in the fullest sense of the word, then you my friend are toying with Roman Catholicism and their doctrine of the immaculate conception... Which according to 1John4:1-3 is Antichrist. We celebrate Christmas tonight, and yes, I know all about the false ideas surrounding December 25 th etc.... But the child born in that stable was a human child... As fully human as you and I... And equally fully divine as He was before the incarnation. That the sacrifice the Father made in giving His only Son to the human race... For all eternity... Reveals the far reaching parameters of that love. Never again will Jesus be as He was before the incarnation. The sacrifice was not just a 33 year long sacrifice. It was eternal... Is eternal...

First, the rc doctrine of marys ic is a false teaching. Nowhere mentioned in scripture and making it a dogma 1800 years after she died means nothing. Secondly, His sacrifice was not 33 years long, nor is it eternal. He was sacrificed once for all. The effects, are eternal or what was gained is eternal for those that place their trust in Him. If His sacrifice were eternal then His death would be eternal because you can't separate the two. He says Himself in Rev...i was dead, but i am alive forever more.

For a thread on purgatory, no one seems to be talking about purgatory....

Taken · Dec 24, 2019

David Taylor ~

BOL claimed Jesus IS a Human.
YOU agreed.

Scripture reveals Human men WHO SAW Jesus, SAW the "LIKENESS" of a HUMAN MAN's BODY.

Human men WERE SUPPOSED to SEE the "LIKENESS" of a HUMAN MAN...

Follow the ORDER...
God SENT His WORD TO EARTH,
IN the "LIKENESS" of HUMAN MEN!

IF Jesus WERE EVER a HUMAN man, He would have COME FORTH OUT OF THE EARTH.

Scripture Expressly teaches, Jesus came FORTH out from God IN HEAVEN, TO EARTH...
IN THE LIKENESS "AS A" man......

"A" particular "KIND" of man!

ALL men OUT OF THE EARTH...BEGIN the SAME".....

Natural, Earthy...
Conceived IN SIN.
Born IN SIN.

THAT ^ did NOT APPLY TO JESUS!

JESUS ..... FORM "IS" Gods Form.

Phil 2
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God...

For Jesus TO COME TO EARTH, and BE SEEN of MEN.........

He TOOK UPON HIMSELF......WHAT?

Phil 2
[7]....took upon him the form of a servant...

And WHEN Jesus TOOK UPON HIMSELF the "FORM" of a Servant....WHAT DID HE LOOK LIKE?

Phil 2
[7] ....the likeness of men:

AND WHERE DID the FORM (BODY) come FROM, that JESUS TOOK UPON Himself?

Heb 10
[5] ...a body hast thou (God) prepared me:

God, IN Heaven PREPARED Jesus' BODY (form).

FOR when..?

Heb 10
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world....

YOU say you are NOT catholic...however for centuries Gentile clerics, calling themselves catholics, have taught men WHO could NOT read, to believe "THEIR" understanding.

And it is NOT a secret, many Protestant denominations CONTINUE "without question" to FOLLOW many aspects of catholic teaching.

I am QUITE SURE, Jesus expressly said to FOLLOW HIM...BELIEVE IN HIM and the ONE WHO SENT HIM.

BOL has expressly said;
Jesus IS a HUMAN.

Scripture expressly says: Jesus IS the Form of God; Jesus came from Heaven to Earth IN Gods EXPRESS IMAGE, and further reveals THAT IMAGE IS: FAITHFUL.

Human men ARE conceived and born IN SIN, which IS NOT the context of FAITHFUL.

Scripture reveals, JESUS came to Earth...
IN THE "LIKENESS" of men (not animals, not angels)...thus the LIKENESS of Human men...

BUT NOT the LIKENESS of ALL HUMAN men..

Jesus came to Earth in the LIKENESS of FAITHFUL men...

BUT NOT ALL "FAITHFUL" men.

Jesus came to Earth in the LIKENESS of SERVANT FAITHFUL men.

WHO exactly "WAS" "A FAITHFUL SERVANT"...at the TIME Jesus Came to EARTH?

ALL HUMAN Gentiles? No.
ALL HUMAN Jews? No.

So WHAT Scripture notifies you WHO IS "FAITHFUL" ?

Deut 7
[9] Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God...

And WHAT Scripture notifies you WHO "IS" a Faithful Servant? The RIGHTEOUS.

Gen 15:
[6] And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he (God) counted it to him (Abram) for righteousness.

Numb 12
[7] My servant Moses ... who is faithful ...

1 Sam 22
[14]...faithful ...David

And WHOSE "LIKENESS" did Jesus TAKE UPON HIMSELF...WHEN He came forth out from God TO Earth?

ALL Human men? No.
Unfaithful Human men? No.
Abram's Likeness? No.
Abram's seed? No.

Jesus took UPON Himself...
1) the BODY God Prepared for WHEN he would come into the world.
2) the seed of Abraham
3) the LIKENESS of a FAITHFUL man
4) the RIGHTEOUSNESS of an Earthy Servant.

Pss 105

[6] O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa.41

[8] But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Heb 2
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

POINT BEING...YOU have adopted the same deft, neat and clever teaching that Gentile catholics have taught for centuries...

And is precisely WHY, BOL's response is repeatedly.....oh, oh, you just "cherry-pick", which is his NON-ANSWER, to simply IMPLY, "cherry-picking" Scripture is intended to give a FALSE understanding.

Scripture is not written in a format of billeted points that an immature elementary student requires.

Scripture IS Written TO and ABOUT ALL of Creation and It's Creator and Maker.

And any human man with an ounce of active gray-matter, SHOULD know HOW to read Scripture and KNOW what "does and does NOT" Apply to him...precisely by "cherry-picking" the Applicable Knowledge and "KNOWING" "NOT" ALL Scripture APPLIES to "him"...or "to God"....but SO OFTEN...simply relies on WHAT OTHER MEN TELL THEM TO BELIEVE!

You can not Have DIVISION...
Have an "US" and "THEM"...
Have "the Faithful" and "Unfaithful"...
Have "the Righteous" and "Unrighteous"...

If one IS utterly IGNORANT there IS a DIVISION.

God Fortold...

[23] And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.

Jesus Fulfilled...

Luke 12

[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

The DIVISION...was ESTABLISHED LONG Ago.

The DIVISION...reveals:
1) Human men WITHOUT God
2) Human men (set apart) WITH God.

Human men ARE Earthly men, out of the DUst of the Earth, and Return to DUST of the Earth.

The Word of God, came FORTH OOUT from God IN Heaven.
Was SENT TO THE EARTH:
IN the FLESH "LIKENESS" OF the FAITHFUL MAN, Abram, renamed ABRAHAM, to establish Abraham's son Isaac, from Abram's son Ismael...and the Promise Given Abraham...was also to Isaac and also to Jacob and EVERY other son of Abraham...WHO ALSO was Faithful to God.

And precisely WHY when Jesus was manifested on earth, IN THE LIKENESS as a men...
His LIKENESS WAS NOT, as ALL HUMAN men,
But as Scripture reveals His IMAGE is of God.
And His LIKENESS IS the same as A FAITHFUL JEW...

You Teach Jesus IS a HUMAN, and where He came FROM, you said was Irrelevant, which is false.
Human men (Faithful or NOT) come out of the dust of the earth and return to the Dust of the Earth.
Scripture expressly says that did not apply to Jesus.

BOL Teaches Jesus IS a HUMAN, and that IS HOW he also claims Jesus had Mary's DNA, which means, GOD would have Fertilized her seed (egg), which Scripture says no such thing.

Scripture expressly TEACHES...Jesus was manifested IN the LIKENESS of JEWISH FAITHFUL MEN, HIS Brethren...
AND it is "ANY MAN", Jew or Gentile, WHO were Offered the Gift of Forgiveness, AND Reconcillation; to become MADE, IN Jesus' LIKENESS, "BY" Christ Jesus, WHO IS:
Christ the Power of God
AND
Jesus the Maker.

It is of NO consequence to me, IF you or BOL comprehends or IF you follow the ORDER IN Scripture to arrive at the correct Knowledge and thereafter Understand...
WHY you Insist Jesus, whom you call God...
AND A HUMAN man, would MAKE your god, equal with fallen angels who appeared AS men, and fertilized the seed of human woman, and are now chained in hell.

Glory to God,
Taken

Taken · Dec 24, 2019

David Taylor said:
Decay doesn't start instantaneously. Do your research.
If a statement is ignorant I'm going to call it out.

Have you ever SEEN a dead body in the state of decomposition? I have.

Have you ever SEEN an autopsy of a body that was already in a state of decomposition?
I have.

Jesus' Body Lay in a Tomb...YOU can guess IF that tomb was cool like refrigeration, (in a well known Arid Climate)...which BTW shortens the time span 24-72 hours after death — the internal organs decompose. 3-5 days after death — the body starts to bloat and blood-containing foam leaks from the mouth andnose. 8-10 days after death — the body turns from green to red as the blood decomposes and the organs in the abdomen accumulate gas.before a decomposing body begins to stink with the most horrible putrid stench....except THAT did not APPLY TO Jesus, WHO IS NOt A HUMAN.

24-72 hours after death — the internal organs decompose. 3-5 days after death — the body starts to bloat and blood-containing foam leaks from the mouth andnose. 8-10 days after death — the body turns from green to red as the blood decomposes and the organs in the abdomen accumulate gas.
8- 36 hours Smell, depending on climate factors primarily.

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