How to recognize a real Teacher... Pt 2

marks said:

Isn't it better to understand someone before criticizing them?

Much love!

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Perhaps I misunderstand @Behold.

Because it seems to me that in many of his posts he has taught that it is Christian failure to take advantage of the promise that we find in 1 John 1:9...that 1 John 1:8 does not apply to the believer...and that 1 John 1:7 is also not to be obeyed in the sense of its context in 1 John 1:9.

Now, have I gotten this wrong?

Why, then, has @Behold been unable to respond to my request to exegete 1 John 1:7-9 in a specific thread on these boards?

Here:

@Behold, would you expound the following:

justbyfaith said:

Perhaps I misunderstand @Behold.

Because it seems to me that in many of his posts he has taught that it is Christian failure to take advantage of the promise that we find in 1 John 1:9...that 1 John 1:8 does not apply to the believer...and that 1 John 1:7 is also not to be obeyed in the sense of its context in 1 John 1:9.

Now, have I gotten this wrong?

Why, then, has @Behold been unable to respond to my request to exegete 1 John 1:7-9 in a specific thread on these boards?

Here:

@Behold, would you expound the following:

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1 John 1:9, what I've heard called so many times, "The Christian's bar of soap", is in reality about becoming a Christian.

Consider the implications of being justified, that is, forgiven of sin, and separated from sin, in comparison with the idea that we need continuing forgiveness.

One implication is that should we not receive that forgiveness, we remain under condemnation, and the born-again dies-again.

Of course, back that up a step . . . needing forgiveness means we have come under condemnation, and the born again has died again.

So, being under condemnation for our sin, we confess our sin, and we are forgiven, and we are cleansed of all unrighteousness. How many times?

Much love!

Behold said:

Some of them will talk about "branches being burned" and "candlesticks being removed".

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Are these phrases indicative of loss of salvation in your opinion?

Behold said:

Here is how a heretic sounds, if you ask them.....>"do you believe that Jesus ALONE is why you go to heaven"?

"ummm, well, you see... Jesus saved me, but.....but......but.......i have to.....do, do, do, and keep, keep, keep, and self effort and self effort, and make sure i dont, dont, dont do that.....and if i am able to do all that, or not do all that, all my LIFE.... then yes, Jesus saves me".

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More like, there is a holiness aspect to salvation. Jesus saves us through His shed blood on the Cross of Calvary; and we are justified by that blood (Romans 5:9). However, can it be said that the blood that justifies does not also sanctify (see Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7)?

The blood of Jesus, when aplied, cannot do one thing without also doing the other.

Therefore, it is not I have to do do do keep, keep, keep and self-effort and self-effort, and make sure I don't do that...

It is that salvation, given as a free gift, produces a holiness of character in the life of the believer.

marks said:

1 John 1:9, what I've heard called so many times, "The Christian's bar of soap", is in reality about becoming a Christian.

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So, are you saying that the verse cannot avail for the believer as a "bar of soap"?

What if the believer sins again after becoming redeemed? Isaiah 59:2 tells us that sin separates us from God.

So, while my position in Christ may be fine and dandy if I sin, my relationship / koinoneia fellowship / connectedness suffers.

If I sin against my father or brother, my position and standing as their brother or son does not change. But in order for there to be reconciliation, I have to go and apologize for what I did. Then, relationship / fellowship is restored. In the case of Christ, connectedness is also restored when we go to Him and "apologize."

The only case in which applying 1 John 1:9 would not be needed is if you never sinned again after becoming a believer.

And while a case can be made for such an idea scripturally, many are not yet in that place where they do not sin anymore. So, ceasing to confess their sins is not the solution; but continuing to confess their sins is the solution...it is the prescribed remedy.

Behold said:

See, i have already responding to you over 2 dozen times, regarding 1 Jn 1.
Did you tell the READER that fact?
you should.

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I have asked you to respond in a specific place and you have been unable to respond; from what I see you have not responded to the question anywhere else either.

Behold said:

Because that verse is not written to the Born again., which ive told you 20 times in 20 THreads.
So, for me to respond to your Thread, when ive responded to your same accuation 20 times in my Threads..
If i do that on yours, then im doing this... Proverbs 26:4

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If it is indeed answering a fool according to his folly to post in my thread, then your doing so would serve to make me not be wise in my own eyes; and that would in fact be the pathway of love for you to go by.

However, I think you know that it is not folly to post in "someone else's thread" and that your doing so in mine (especially when I have specifically asked you to post in it) would not be answering a fool according to his folly.

For on these boards, everyone has a right to post wherever they would like to post; there are no restrictions.

I think I should also mention that in calling me a fool, you place yourself in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22); for, "the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35).

Behold said:

So, John knew Paul. Paul taught John The Gosple of the Grace of God.
John would have Paul's letters to the Romans.
Including Romans 4:8.

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Romans 4:8 tells us that the Lord will not impute sin to the believer; not that the believer no longer has sin.

Behold said:

because you have a carnal mind

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This is an example of bearing thorns and thistles as a teacher. We have already determined that the sign of a false teacher is bearing thorns and thistles (as it is written in Matthew 7:15-20). I would also mention the principle in Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42, that those who have deep problems often, psychologically project those problems onto others, by pointing the finger at them. I believe it was Pastor Romaine of the Calvary Chapel Movement who said, "Any time you point the finger at someone else, you have three fingers pointing back at you."

justbyfaith said:

So, are you saying that the verse cannot avail for the believer as a "bar of soap"?

What if the believer sins again after becoming redeemed? Isaiah 59:2 tells us that sin separates us from God.

So, while my position in Christ may be fine and dandy if I sin, my relationship / koinoneia fellowship / connectedness suffers.

If I sin against my father or brother, my position and standing as their brother or son does not change. But in order for there to be reconciliation, I have to go and apologize for what I did. Then, relationship / fellowship is restored. In the case of Christ, connectedness is also restored when we go to Him and "apologize."

The only case in which applying 1 John 1:9 would not be needed is if you never sinned again after becoming a believer.

And while a case can be made for such an idea scripturally, many are not yet in that place where they do not sin anymore. So, ceasing to confess their sins is not the solution; but continuing to confess their sins is the solution...it is the prescribed remedy.

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God reconciled you to Himself in Christ's death. Was that reconciliation not effective? If you were reconciled to God while you were still an unrepentant sinner, what does that tell us about now?

Why do you believe that your sins are not forgiven? Even those you haven't committed yet? "Behold, the Lamb of God Who bears away the sin of the world." That's what Jesus did. And that was long before you or I were born.

Much love!

justbyfaith said:

What if the believer sins again after becoming redeemed? Isaiah 59:2 tells us that sin separates us from God.

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That passage tells people that sin separates them from God, but continue reading.

15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

This salvation was to make us His children, created in His pattern, righteous, and truly holy.

Much love!

marks said:

God reconciled you to Himself in Christ's death. Was that reconciliation not effective? If you were reconciled to God while you were still an unrepentant sinner, what does that tell us about now?

Why do you believe that your sins are not forgiven? Even those you haven't committed yet? "Behold, the Lamb of God Who bears away the sin of the world." That's what Jesus did. And that was long before you or I were born.

Much love!

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So, ought we to cut 1 John 1:9 out of our Bibles and never think about it again?

How, also, does 1 John 1:9 relate to 1 John 1:7 in your view?

In mine, confessing our sins means transparency before the Lord; it means walking in the light as He is in the light.

In both verses, the result is being cleansed from all sin / unrighteousness. Which indicates to me that they are talking about the same thing.

marks said:

That passage tells people that sin separates them from God, but continue reading.

15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

This salvation was to make us His children, created in His pattern, righteous, and truly holy.

Much love!

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Verse 17 is talking about Jesus Christ; not the sanctified believer.

justbyfaith said:

So, ought we to cut 1 John 1:9 out of our Bibles and never think about it again?

How, also, does 1 John 1:9 relate to 1 John 1:7 in your view?

In mine, confessing our sins means transparency before the Lord; it means walking in the light as He is in the light.

In both verses, the result is being cleansed from all sin / unrighteousness. Which indicates to me that they are talking about the same thing.

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I find that greater transparency is realized when we come to understand our complete and total reconciliation to God. I am free to be completely transparent with God. There is therefore now no condemnation, and therefore, no break in relationship, and I can bring literally anything to God for help. No worries at all!

We are sinners, and we have to admit this. And in confessing our sin, we can come from the darkness into the light.

Do you then return to the darkness?

What does it mean to be cleansed of unrighteousness? For a limited time only?

Much love!

justbyfaith said:

Verse 17 is talking about Jesus Christ; not the sanctified believer.

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Yes, I see the same thing.

justbyfaith said:

So, ought we to cut 1 John 1:9 out of our Bibles and never think about it again?

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Let's look at this. Firstly, to answer your question, of course not. We are to understand it as God meant.

But you didn't respond to my comment:

God reconciled you to Himself in Christ's death. Was that reconciliation not effective? If you were reconciled to God while you were still an unrepentant sinner, what does that tell us about now?

Why do you believe that your sins are not forgiven? Even those you haven't committed yet? "Behold, the Lamb of God Who bears away the sin of the world." That's what Jesus did. And that was long before you or I were born.

Are we not reconciled by Jesus' death while we were still unrepentant sinners? And if that is so, why would we not be still be reconciled to God now that we are His children?

Much love!

justbyfaith said:

How, also, does 1 John 1:9 relate to 1 John 1:7 in your view?

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Walking in darkness is what we do before being reborn. Walking in the light is having come to Christ in faith.

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

You stay in darkness, prefering to hide, or you come to the light.

Much love!

marks said:

Let's look at this. Firstly, to answer your question, of course not. We are to understand it as God meant.

But you didn't respond to my comment:

God reconciled you to Himself in Christ's death. Was that reconciliation not effective? If you were reconciled to God while you were still an unrepentant sinner, what does that tell us about now?

Why do you believe that your sins are not forgiven? Even those you haven't committed yet? "Behold, the Lamb of God Who bears away the sin of the world." That's what Jesus did. And that was long before you or I were born.

Are we not reconciled by Jesus' death while we were still unrepentant sinners? And if that is so, why would we not be still be reconciled to God now that we are His children?

Much love!

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We are reconciled by Jesus' death when we place our faith in Him...when we fulfill the condition to the promise.

We are not reconciled to God while still unrepentant. We must at the very least turn to God and ask Him for forgiveness.

Confessing our sins is a part of that.

marks said:

Walking in darkness is what we do before being reborn. Walking in the light is having come to Christ in faith.

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

You stay in darkness, prefering to hide, or you come to the light.

Much love!

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What does it mean to stay in the light, except to remain transparent before the Lord by confessing your sins as the Holy Spirit points them out?

justbyfaith said:

What does it mean to stay in the light, except to remain transparent before the Lord by confessing your sins as the Holy Spirit points them out?

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This is why I quote from John 3, to show the Biblical idea of being in light or being in darkness.

Included in this is the idea that we don't hide at all from God in anything. We come fully into the light to be revealed. It's not just about confessing sins once committed. It's about remaining in intimacy with God through Anything, including if we fall into sin. This is certainly our most sure route away from sin, and out of the midst of sin.

We share with God everything inside us, our thoughts, feelings, whatever. We're open before Him before, during, and after sinning. But in that kind of koinonia with God, sinning isn't so much the problem.

I see testings coming, and I grow concerned over whether I will stand or fall, and take it to the Lord. I share with Him my weakness, and He comes back with strength.

And if I still falter in my faith, and sin, yet the Spirit remains in me, God is my Father, and He remains loving and intimate. My sins may sadden God - which is the meaning of "greave the Spirit", it's to make very sad. My sins make me sad too. They make God sad!! Imagine!! God sad for us! Because of our sins! Does He not love us so??

Much love!

justbyfaith said:

We are not reconciled to God while still unrepentant. We must at the very least turn to God and ask Him for forgiveness.

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Romans 5
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the reconciliation.

God reconciled us to Himself, even when we were still His enemies. But then we need to reconcile to God, that is, to receive His reconciliation, which is restoration to friendship.

But even as His enemies He reconciled us to Himself.

Much love!

marks said:

And if I still falter in my faith, and sin, yet the Spirit remains in me,

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I agree; for this appears to be the teaching that we find in Galatians 3:14-17.

marks said:

Romans 5
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the reconciliation.

God reconciled us to Himself, even when we were still His enemies. But then we need to reconcile to God, that is, to receive His reconciliation, which is restoration to friendship.

But even as His enemies He reconciled us to Himself.

Much love!

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I would just point out what it says in the following scripture:

Luk 13:1, There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2, And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4, Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.