Kenosis False Teaching

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

Ronald Nolette said:
Good explanation on the high theological level. that would be awesome as part of a paper for amasters.

I took all that high theological terminology after I graduated from my final degree so many years ago. And tucked them away in the deep recesses of the back of my mind. Just remember a post liek this is awesome for talking with high theologically minded individuals , but to communicate with the masses, where the rubber meets the road, KISS-Keep It Simple Saint!

I love the acronym with saint !

justbyfaith · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
Then you are espousing the kenosis heresy as well. You are denying Jesus was fully God for 33 years.

Am not.

I am saying that His added nature of humanity necessarily limited the use of His divine attributes (such as Omniscience, Omnipresence, and perhaps Omnipotence).

How do you explain the fact that Jesus said that the Son does not know the day and hour of His return (Mark 13:32)?

JW's use this verse to deny that Jesus is even God. I do not. I explain it by kenosis theory; which is not in fact a heresy in its purest form.

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Am not.

I am saying that His added nature of humanity necessarily limited the use of His divine attributes (such as Omniscience, Omnipresence, and perhaps Omnipotence).

ok limiting them is much different than saying He did not have them.

see if you agree with this analogy.

I'm a 5th degree blackbelt in jujitsu. Now I voluntarily lay aside those abilities when facing a given a situation even though they are within my power to use them. The same is true with Jesus Divine Attributes of the Omni's.

Would you agree ?

Enoch111 · Nov 8, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
...It could be you just don't completely understand it...

What's to understand? Jesus did not empty Himself when He came to earth. Instead God took human form. Period. Actually John says "we beheld His glory".

And the Word [who is God] was made flesh [took human form], and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14).

The translations which say "emptied himself" mislead the unwary. By being overly smart, they look foolish.

Enoch111 · Nov 8, 2020

justbyfaith said:
How do you explain the fact that Jesus said that the Son does not know the day and hour of His return (Mark 13:32)?

At that point in time (while Christ had not yet been crucified, resurrected, ascended, exalted, and glorified) this was true. However after His resurrection Christ said "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Mt 28:18). Which meant that from then on Christ knew the day and the hour of His return as precisely as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

How is it that Christians are unable to connect the dots?

justbyfaith · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
ok limiting them is much different than saying He did not have them.

see if you agree with this analogy.

I'm a 5th degree blackbelt in jujitsu. Now I voluntarily lay aside those abilities when facing a given a situation even though they are within my power to use them. The same is true with Jesus Divine Attributes of the Omni's.

Would you agree ?

Yes, I can agree with that.

101G · Nov 8, 2020

Enoch111 said:
What's to understand? Jesus did not empty Himself when He came to earth.

ERROR, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

the term "no reputation" is the Greek word,
G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756

now you want to try that again?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

justbyfaith · Nov 8, 2020

Enoch111 said:
At that point in time (while Christ had not yet been crucified, resurrected, ascended, exalted, and glorified) this was true. However after His resurrection Christ said "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Mt 28:18). Which meant that from then on Christ knew the day and the hour of His return as precisely as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

How is it that Christians are unable to connect the dots?

The word for power there is exousia I believe....it means authority rather than raw power to do something (that would be dunamis).

It brings up another question if it means power...did Jesus have all power before He was resurrected?

101G · Nov 8, 2020

Enoch111 said:
At that point in time (while Christ had not yet been crucified, resurrected, ascended, exalted, and glorified) this was true. However after His resurrection Christ said "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Mt 28:18). Which meant that from then on Christ knew the day and the hour of His return as precisely as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

How is it that Christians are unable to connect the dots?

ANOTHER ERROR, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

he still don't know... why? because he "WILLS" not to know.

if someone is connecting dot, then they are blind as a bat. Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

it's an act of his own will not to know. so he don't know even to this day, for he stills sits.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

CharismaticLady · Nov 8, 2020

Enoch111 said:
What's to understand? Jesus did not empty Himself when He came to earth. Instead God took human form. Period. Actually John says "we beheld His glory".

And the Word [who is God] was made flesh [took human form], and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14).

The translations which say "emptied himself" mislead the unwary. By being overly smart, they look foolish.

And WHEN was it that John beheld His glory? Do you remember reading about it?

Matthew 17:
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. 7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” 8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

101G · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
How, then, do we understand Philippians 2:6–7, which says that the Son of God “emptied” Himself as He took on the form of a servant? In what way did Jesus “empty” Himself? We begin with context. Verses 1—5 describe the attitude believers should adopt, one that “was also in Christ Jesus.” Believers are to exhibit humility and lowliness of mind, having the same self-sacrificial mindset that Jesus had. He didn’t use His equality with God to His own advantage; rather, He took on the form of a servant. Believers are to emulate Christ by becoming humble and obedient. Believers do not put off their human attributes and become something else, any more than Jesus put off His divine attributes. Rather, they look to Jesus as their example and subjugate their impulses and desires for the sake of others.

Christ’s “emptying” of Himself was the laying aside of the privileges of divinity, not divinity itself. In heaven, the Son of God possessed infinite honor and glory and adoration. But He chose to leave that position of honor, and He “made himself nothing” (Philippians 2:7). When He came to earth, He veiled His glory and chose to occupy the position of a slave. The kenosis spoken of in Philippians 2:7 was a self-renunciation but not an emptying of deity. Jesus never ceased to be God, and He did not exchange deity for humanity.

What Jesus did was set aside His heavenly glory. And He voluntarily refrained from using His divinity to make His way easier. His miracles were not done to benefit Himself but to help others. During His earthly ministry, Christ completely submitted Himself to the will of the Father (John 5:19). John Walvoord explains it this way: “The act of kenosis . . . may . . . be properly understood to mean that Christ surrendered no attribute of Deity, but that He did voluntarily restrict their independent use in keeping with His purpose of living among men and their limitations” (Jesus Christ Our Lord, p. 144).

well Philippians 2:7 & 8 are true, and the term "FORM" in verse 6 clearly Identifies our Lord Nature.... "Spirit". but that Nature was G2758 κενόω kenoo in verse 7 so that the nature he took on could die.... meaning the flesh. and by being G2758 κενόω, he is identified as "spirit".... notice the difference. lets see an example. Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit."

HOLD THE PRESS, but was it not the "Spirit", the Holy Spirit that was poured out on the day of Pentecost? see it now? "spirit" and "Spirit". for was it not the LORD the "Spirit speaking in Joel 2:28 & 29.

another exposure of the three persons Godhead. is not the so-called three person in that doctrine are suppose to be ONE "Spirit?", notice the cap "S" in Spirit, which distinguish God from any angel or human spirit. for GOD is "a" Spirit, per John 4:24a, one Spirit. so why do almighty God said that he was pouring out his "spirit", and notice the small case "s" in spirit.

do anyone care to explain where a "spirit" of God was poured out on Pentecost? cain't wait to hear these responses....

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Ziggy · Nov 8, 2020

Poured out comes to mind..
My cup runneth over.. is another..

Psa 62:8 Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

If God empties himself by pouring his spirit on the people, does that make God less spirit?

mm... I don't think so..
Hugs

101G · Nov 8, 2020

Ziggy said:
Poured out comes to mind..
My cup runneth over.. is another..

Psa 62:8 Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

If God empties himself by pouring his spirit on the people, does that make God less spirit?

mm... I don't think so..
Hugs

no because all of God is poured out. but if one say only one person of the the ONE Spirit was G2758 κενόω kenoo, so was all of the Spirit G2758 κενόω kenoo?, or was some of the Spirit G2758 κενόω kenoo? that's what before us. all, part/some, or none of the "ONE" Spirit was G2758 κενόω kenoo.

which one?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Ziggy · Nov 8, 2020

101G said:
no because all of God is poured out. but if one say only one person of the the ONE Spirit was G2758 κενόω kenoo, so was all of the Spirit G2758 κενόω kenoo?, or was some of the Spirit G2758 κενόω kenoo? that's what before us. all, part/some, or none of the "ONE" Spirit was G2758 κενόω kenoo.

which one?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

one person of the One Spirit....
There is only One Spirit..
Oh is this a Trinity Doctrine??
I don't even know what catagory I'm in.. sorry
stepping out..
I don't believe there are three personages of God.
You have Gods Mind, God's Heart, and God's Will.
Mind = Holy Spirit Heart = Son and these together complete the doing of the will of God = Father.
Like you have a mind and a heart and the body which houses them does what you put your heart and mind to do.

I guess I don't agree with the kenoo.. doctrine.
That's just how I understand it.
HUGS

Ziggy · Nov 8, 2020

That's like when God says:
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy mind and all thy heart and all thy might.
And someone turns around and says.. which one?

anywhoo.
HUGS

101G · Nov 8, 2020

Ziggy said:
I don't believe there are three personages of God.

neither do I. but I believe that the ONE God is a "Diversity" of himself in flesh.

Ziggy said:
I guess I don't agree with the kenoo.. doctrine.

neither do I. God didnot split, or separate into three distinct persons.

Ziggy said:
That's like when God says:
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy mind and all thy heart and all thy might.
And someone turns around and says.. which one?

Point made.

but one day christian will wake up and smell the coffee.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

DNB · Nov 8, 2020

Ziggy said:
That's like when God says:
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy mind and all thy heart and all thy might.
And someone turns around and says.. which one?

anywhoo.
HUGS

You tell them sister, don't let them get a way with their defamatory nonsense!

101G · Nov 8, 2020

DNB said:
You tell them sister, don't let them get a way with their defamatory nonsense!

it's not a matter of anyone getting away with anything, it just that they need to be taught. as the scriptures sheep without a Shephard.

we all have been without a Shephard, so we need to exercise patience with one another.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

DNB · Nov 8, 2020

101G said:
it's not a matter of anyone getting away with anything, it just that they need to be taught. as the scriptures sheep without a Shephard.

we all have been without a Shephard, so we need to exercise patience with one another.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Some things are inexcusable 101G. People using terms like incarnation, hypostatic-union, trinity, god-man and so on, not one of them have a clue of what they are talking about, not one single person. And they throw these non-biblical terms around as though they are just to be accepted and taken for granted. And then, Christophany went on to talk about the necessity of Jesus being God in order to effectuate the Atonement. But, for the life of him, he will never be able to prove it Scripturally, or explain it rationally. For the Bible states both explicitly and didactically the opposite (Romans 5:12-19)
Some positions, 101G, are not worthy of any respect or dignity, but require rebuke and admonishment.

Ziggy · Nov 8, 2020

DNB said:
Some things are inexcusable 101G. People using terms like incarnation, hypostatic-union, trinity, god-man and so on, not one of them have a clue of what they are talking about, not one single person. And they throw these non-biblical terms around as though they are just to be accepted and taken for granted. And then, Christophany went on to talk about the necessity of Jesus being God in order to effectuate the Atonement. But, for the life of him, he will never be able to prove it Scripturally, or explain it rationally.
Some positions, 101G, are not worthy of any respect or dignity, but require rebuke and admonishment.

And maybe sometimes a gentle nudge works just as well.
It's not anyones fault. Except the ones who originally tried to divide the church into a million pieces to weaken it.
It's no different than the media. This one says this and some follow.
This one says that and some follow.
But Truth is Truth and with so much propaganda and self righteousness hitting the minds,
whether by doctrine or tv station.. it's hard to find it, unless one is willing to seriously dig.
And everyone has been sent on a wild goose chase for what 2000 years now?
It's not anyone's fault. We just need to be patient and willing to listen. Explain your understanding.
And sometimes you can make a difference, other times you can't.
Jesus had the same problem, and he was God!
If they don't understand Him, how are we ever going to understand each other?
Patience, Longsuffering... that's what those fruits are for..

HUGS

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