A blow by blow account of Revelation

[bbyrd009]

One who believes themselves to be a "child of God" should stop and take a look in the mirror for once in their lives instead of trying to point out everyone else's supposed "faults", and take a damn hint. Isaiah says we should be reasoning together in Gods word, yet I often see the exact opposite. If we can't even reason with each other, then there is no reason why the world should give you the light of day.

see, you are making my point here; it is no diff now from Isaiah's day, when they were sacrificing and etc,

14I hate your New Moons and prescribed festivals. They have become a burden to Me; I am tired of putting up with them.
v
v
v
"come, let us reason together."

(or "come, let's discuss this," or even "let's settle the matter")
bc see, these ppl are not to be "reasoned with" at all!

 

[bbyrd009]

Isaiah says we should be reasoning together in Gods word

so iow this is not true wadr, it was not Isaiah saying that, and it was not God's "Word" that should (or even could) be reasoned about anyway. Imo God is not saying "let's reason together" at all; they are being judged and found wanting. Condemned on the basis of their acts, which they (obviously) were in no mood to rebound from

 

[bbyrd009]

If we can't even reason with each other

fwiw "reason together" is a very poor translation there anyway, abused by pastors to make the ersatz point you have already stated, that cannot really be supported by the text imo.

 

[Enoch111]

The prophecies are not recounted in the Book of Revelations in a linear or sequential fashion, with the story line going back and forth in time, with a number of the story lines in the Book of Revelation running in parallel with each other.

That is what some postulate, but it is not borne out by the facts:

1. Are the seals sequential starting at the 1st and going to the 7th? Absolutely

2. Are the trumpet judgments sequential? Absolutely

3. Are the vial/bowl judgments sequential? Absolutely

4. Does Revelation begin with churches in the first century and end with the eternal state in the New Heavens and the New Earth? Absolutely.

Now there are doubtless a few parenthetical passages, but that does not change the linear progression of the book of Revelation.

 

[bbyrd009]

........I strongly suggest you not mention that racist piece of garbage in the same breath of our Lord and savior as if they are on some equal terms.

now who's being derogatory? Gandhi changed the nation, and the world, peacefully. I didn't say he was perfect. And you never suffered any racism from Gandhi either, did you; you are just repeating hearsay. Not sure who Gandhi could have been racist towards, that might bear some consideration, but imo certainly does not detract from his accomplishment

 

[bbyrd009]

in the same breath of our Lord and savior as if they are on some equal terms.

"the glory You gave to Me I now give to them"

 

[bbyrd009]

........I strongly suggest you not mention that racist piece of garbage in the same breath of our Lord and savior as if they are on some equal terms.

i mean, so you read the S African book about Gandhi, ok. But you nor i have no access to what might have motivated him, for all we know he might even have been posturing to get more important concessions. Also that was a pretty young Gandhi i guess. At the very least there is another side to the story, i'm sure. You read only one side, and may i say fwiw that that book was crap anyway, financed by the Rothschilds. It was propaganda put out bc they were losing the ppl to Gandhi, most likely

 

[Jay Ross]

That is what some postulate, but it is not borne out by the facts:

1. Are the seals sequential starting at the 1st and going to the 7th? Absolutely

2. Are the trumpet judgments sequential? Absolutely

3. Are the vial/bowl judgments sequential? Absolutely

4. Does Revelation begin with churches in the first century and end with the eternal state in the New Heavens and the New Earth? Absolutely.

Now there are doubtless a few parenthetical passages, but that does not change the linear progression of the book of Revelation.

Enoch111, you have also stated what some postulate but it is not born out by the facts: -

What I had previously posted was that the Bowl judgements should be considered sequential, but in the reverse order to the order in which they are recorded. If we examine each of the bowl judgements it is obvious that they are in the reverse order.

The other issue that we have is in the translation and understanding of the Greek words. For example "seismos" should be understood to have the meaning of "turmoil" rather than "earthquake" and when we consider the variations of this Greek Root word, "turmoil" fits better into the context of the passage where it is found.

As such, Revelation 16:17-21, the 7th angel's Bowl Judgement, is not describing an "earthquake" as such, but rather, it is describing the events of WW1 and the treaties that were enacted afterwards. After WWI, Babylon was remembered once more with the establishment of the nation of Iraq. After WW1, Jerusalem was divided into three parts and controlled by three different parties, The British, the Jordanians and the League of nations. The cities of the nations around the land of Canaan were levelled by war, and the Turkish empire's control was radically reduced at that time. Since WW1 the plague that fall from the heavens have increased.

Revelation 16:12-16, the 6th Angel's Bowl judgement, is unfold at this present time and it will conclude in around 24-28 years time. We have also witnessed the three foul wicked frog like spirits that went out into the world to begin the process of drawing all of the nations to Armageddon where they will be judged.

Revelation 16:10-11, the 5th Angel's bowl judgement can possibly be associated with the time of the imprisonment in darkness of the judged heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth in the Bottomless pit, which lasted for 1,000 years. God's grace towards the men locked up in the Bottomless pit can be seen in this judgement but the men/people did not repent.

Revelation 16:8-9, the 4th Angel's bowl judgement occur after the bottomless pit is unlocked, in our distant future. The beginning of the plagues brought about by the scorpions and the beasts coming out of the Bottomless pit.

Revelation 16:4-7, the 3rd Angel's bowl judgement on the people because they have killed the saints and the prophets right up and until the time when People take the mark of the beast upon themselves.

Revelation 16:3, the 2nd Angel's bowl judgement is poured out.

Revelation 16:2, the 1st Angel's bowl Judgement is poured out after the people who have worshipped the beast and its image, have received the mark of the beast. This is poured out at the end of the Millennium Age.

Now if you can provide a better explanation of what I have written concerning the timing of the bowls being poured out, then be my guest. But I doubt if you can change the order I have presented to show that the bowl judgements occur in the reverse order in time to what is recorded in the scriptures.

Shalom

 

[Enoch111]

For example "seismos" should be understood to have the meaning of "turmoil" rather than "earthquake"...

Since seismology is the study of earthquakes, we should stick to that meaning.

As such, Revelation 16:17-21, the 7th angel's Bowl Judgement, is not describing an "earthquake" as such, but rather, it is describing the events of WW1 and the treaties that were enacted afterwards...

This is pure speculation. The 6th and 7th seal judgments (Rev 16 included) are all future. So we should stick to the chronological sequence given in Revelation.

 

[Jay Ross]

Since seismology is the study of earthquakes, we should stick to that meaning.

This is pure speculation. The 6th and 7th seal judgments (Rev 16 included) are all future. So we should stick to the chronological sequence given in Revelation.

Really, that is the weirdest manner of understanding Greek words, I have heard of. A little like the word talent, which originally meant a monetary sum of money as defined by a certain weight in Gold, Silver or bronze but because of the misuse of the word talent in the parable of the Talents, it now has the meaning of a person's ability to do certain things. He has a talent to do sums in his head. Does that mean he gets a talent because he can do sums in his head.

History does confirm what I have written. So to say that the events spoken of occurring after the 7th angel pours out his bowl have not happened is speculation on your part with no understanding of what occurred around the time of ww1.

You also are denying that the observed evidence that the whole world saw with the three foul wicked evil frog like spirits that went out to the whole world to do signs and wonders also has not happened is a denial of the evidence that I saw on my TV even though I live on the other side of the world to where the signs were performed. People from third world countries actually sat down and cheered as they watched the event unfolding over a number of hours on their TV's. Sadly, a number of notable Pre-tribbers denied that this event was a fulfilment of a God given prophecy, shortly after it occurred.

I do not claim that all of the 6th Angel's bowl judgement has been fulfilled yet, but significant parts of it has. This prophetic event still has around 24-28 years yet to run. If we start to see in 24 to 28 years time the nations begin to gather at Armageddon which can be seen from Jerusalem, in battle against a heavenly entity, i.e. Christ, then this portion of the evidence for the 6th Angel's bowl judgement will be conclusive.

As I demonstrated the bowl judgement actually confirm what I have written. Perhaps you should take your time to review what you believe is true.

If what you are saying is true, then we should be expecting the worshipping of the beast and its image to occur soon. But the little horn has to rise up out of the Abyss first. Seems a little more confusing to me and not very probable.

Shalom

 

[bbyrd009]

Since seismology is the study of earthquakes, we should stick to that meaning.

or perhaps since the Bible is all about spiritual application, that is how truth is hidden from the wise

if you have ever said anything like "looks like a tornado hit in here" you might reflect on that wadr.
Imo there is not going to be a verifiable earthquake; which does not mean there won't be

 

[bbyrd009]

Really, that is the weirdest manner of understanding Greek words, I have heard of.

dialecticism is awesome, i wish i could speak so fluently.
he is 100% correct of course, logically speaking, which just makes it all the more difficult to point out any tornados or earthquakes in the vicinity i guess. We have "i felt the earth move" which is unfort applied to sex as a general rule, but the saying did not start out being a commentary on orgasm, how i even know any of this i can't even say. Some site that gives the etymology of colloquial phrases, i guess. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...0i67k1j0i20i264k1j33i22i29i30k1.0.U_SbjljZpzI
ya one of those.

 

[bbyrd009]

If what you are saying is true, then we should be expecting the worshipping of the beast and its image to occur soon.

wherein i guess the literal-minded would only agree that that prophecy was being fulfilled when they see actual people literally on their knees bowing or lighting candles to some shrine or effigy, most likely with some light to medium scraping.

The fact that we all value every single thing in "money" now would be irrelevant, almost surely probably

 

[Enoch111]

or perhaps since the Bible is all about spiritual application, that is how truth is hidden from the wise

This is no doubt a SEISMIC revelation! Let's just stick to earthquake which literally means earthquake, not something esoteric.

 

[Willie T]

I find it interesting that earthquakes were reported quite often in the earlier years. They seemed to have a big one somewhere in that relatively small area of the Holy land (That WAS what was the "known world" in those days when the prophesies were written.) every year or two.
Today, that doesn't happen with anywhere near the same frequency. Oh, sure, there are a lot more RECORDED quakes since we have equipment in this modern day that records activity that no one even notices otherwise.
But, the ones large enough to cause widespread concern don't seem to happen anywhere nearly as often as they did in ancient days.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is no doubt a SEISMIC revelation! Let's just stick to earthquake which literally means earthquake, not something esoteric.

you go ahead then, but i've tested that and it is a fail for me. Doesn't mean there won't be a literal earthquake, but having caused a few esoteric earthquakes at this point without really even meaning to i am compelled to read differently.

I could quote an account of a recent congregation going through an earthquake next to the passage in the Rev that might be pertinent here, but it would take me an hour to do it right...

If you would like to test your "conviction" on the matter i could suggest a few areas in your belief system where "literal" fails you, completely, but you just overlook it out of habit. But it's gonna be like the Q i already asked basically, only more pointed, iow you aren't going to want to answer them a lot more ok

 

[Jay Ross]

you go ahead then, but i've tested that and it is a fail for me. Doesn't mean there won't be a literal earthquake, but having caused a few esoteric earthquakes at this point without really even meaning to i am compelled to read differently.

I could quote an account of a recent congregation going through an earthquake next to the passage in the Rev that might be pertinent here, but it would take me an hour to do it right...

If you would like to test your "conviction" on the matter i could suggest a few areas in your belief system where "literal" fails you, completely, but you just overlook it out of habit. But it's gonna be like the Q i already asked basically, only more pointed, iow you aren't going to want to answer them a lot more ok

Thanks for teaching me a new word. And yes, I know the turmoil that you cause. It tends to produce steam rather than a shaking/earthquake, i.e. of the fist.

This is a valid point to the argument regards the sequence of events. Where is John standing with respect to the Seal, trumpet and bowl judgements/prophetic events? Is he standing at the beginning with respect to time of the events unfolding or at the end when all of the events have unfolded

as he records them for us. Knowing where John is, time wise as he looks at the tapestry of the unfolding events helps to provide the context of the record that John presents to us.

An esoteric perspective, maybe?​

 

[Dcopymope]

That is what some postulate, but it is not borne out by the facts:

1. Are the seals sequential starting at the 1st and going to the 7th? Absolutely

2. Are the trumpet judgments sequential? Absolutely

3. Are the vial/bowl judgments sequential? Absolutely

4. Does Revelation begin with churches in the first century and end with the eternal state in the New Heavens and the New Earth? Absolutely.

Now there are doubtless a few parenthetical passages, but that does not change the linear progression of the book of Revelation.

Yes, its so simple when you let the Bible speak for itself isn't it? Some people prefer to only believe what the book plainly says when its convenient for them and their own private interpretations. These people are apart of the problem.

 

[bbyrd009]

An esoteric perspective, maybe?

imo where Christ is revealed might be more pertinent; time seems to be a preoccupation with ppl reading the Rev?

Knowing where John is, time wise as he looks at the tapestry of the unfolding events

this tells me that you believe John is talking about single events there in the Rev, right? Those are things that you believe will happen only at some point in the future, rather than symbols for events that will occur in the establishment of any elohim?

 

[bbyrd009]

Thanks for teaching me a new word.

esoteric? really? well ty for the heads up, i'll look for a better word