A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

[jaybird]

You have been shown from the Bible that Jesus IS HE, so go and accept Jesus as your God and Creator, only then can you be saved.

umm no, the contradicting logic that you and the other guy refuse to address is not the bible, its mans attempt to make a a doctrine fit into the bible, the doctrine fails, they add another doctrine, wash and repeat. thats why it was 600 years after Jesus before they could ever get it right, and it still didnt work, then they had to start burning people, that will make them accept. Jesus and the 12 did not kill people to make them believe. just saying

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

i dont see it that way. like i said in the other post, the right hand belongs to the Father and Jesus sits next to the Father at the Fathers right hand.

standing sitting, i dont see a difference. it sounds like splitting hairs, either way the hand belongs to the Father, not Jesus.

beside me also means within, no elohim within me, if i was a trinitarian this would turn my world upside down because the trinity says there are in fact three gods within the Most High, you can call them persons but they are still gods.
Thomas does not proclaim Jesus to be the Most High, He says elohim/theos, a son of the Most High is a god / elohim.

First thanks for the replies. but this especially post #535 has turned your belief upside down if you think someone is actually setting next to someone else at their RIGHT HAND. if no no elohim within me, as you stated, nor "BESIDE" me, then there is no other PERSON, or PERSON(S).... WITH" him in the Godhead, or outside of him to sit next to. see, your befiefs are exposed also.

when you said, the Lord Jesus sits next, to God you just ended your own belief. because now you have two Gods sitting next to each other, and that's polytheism by definition. (well at least you have two.... "Gods".... instead of two .... "gods"...... .. but both is just as wrong as the other

so, no matter what you say, the word of God is not changing for either you or me, or anyone else.

now I ask you as a friend, just look at what you been believing in. you had been decieved all along. it took the Lord Jesus now to open your eyes, and yet you still don't want to accept the truth, that you been believing a LIE.

but don't feel like the Lone Ranger, there are many more who's eyes are becoming open from a "DEEP SLEEP", listen, Isaiah 29:10 "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered."
WHY DID GOD DO THIS TO US?, ANSWER,
Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:"
Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

see G money, the bible is sealed, and not open to our interpertation, or our way, or what we believe. the educated and the uneducated are in the same boat, we all are dumb dogs, or a least ... we were, (smile), listen, Isaiah 56:10 "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber." (they/US are what? all ignorant.)
Isaiah 56:11 "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."

see g money..... we all was asleep, and some still is. (so no one can bark at Israel), YES, even 101G, until God sent someone and ..... "Slaped" the He?? our of me, (not literally), but by the scriptures, it had the same effect... YIKES! and then I woke up...... quickly and alert... see I had that Damascus road experince also. I got hit by a right cross all the way from heaven. when my eyes open then I was ready to actually to HEAR, and UNDERSTAND, the word of the Lord.

not only did have a Damascus road experince, but before that I had a Garden of gethsemane moment also. yes, I was sleeping, as Isaiah by God, I was in DEEP SLEEP, and yes, supposed to be on the Job. as with the Lord's disciples, I could not watch one hour.... but like the apostle Paul, the Lord Jesus had mercy on me... this, as well as the apostle, I do my best to present my Lord's words as best as I can. also as Paul, he thought me worthy to place me in his Ministry. so this is why I'm so adamant about this subject.... the Godhead.

now you are at a crossroad, on the Damascus road, you can go on believing that the Lord Jesus is actually, physically, sitting or standing next to someone else if you want to, but understand, you have been told, and you see that there is no one sitting or standing next to anyone. you can go on believing a lie, but you have to give an account to God, my Job is done, I have told you. and made it, the truth, plain as day. so you can do what you want from now on, it's on YOU.

now if iI was you, I would re-read this post as well as Post #535 above.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

GINOLJC, to all.



First thanks for the replies. but this especially post #535 has turned your belief upside down if you think someone is actually setting next to someone else at their RIGHT HAND. if no no elohim within me, as you stated, nor "BESIDE" me, then there is no other PERSON, or PERSON(S).... WITH" him in the Godhead, or outside of him to sit next to. see, your befiefs are exposed also.

when you said, the Lord Jesus sits next, to God you just ended your own belief. because now you have two Gods sitting next to each other, and that's polytheism by definition. (well at least you have two.... "Gods".... instead of two .... "gods"...... .. but both is just as wrong as the other

so, no matter what you say, the word of God is not changing for either you or me, or anyone else.

now I ask you as a friend, just look at what you been believing in. you had been decieved all along. it took the Lord Jesus now to open your eyes, and yet you still don't want to accept the truth, that you been believing a LIE.

but don't feel like the Lone Ranger, there are many more who's eyes are becoming open from a "DEEP SLEEP", listen, Isaiah 29:10 "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered."
WHY DID GOD DO THIS TO US?, ANSWER,
Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:"
Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

see G money, the bible is sealed, and not open to our interpertation, or our way, or what we believe. the educated and the uneducated are in the same boat, we all are dumb dogs, or a least ... we were, (smile), listen, Isaiah 56:10 "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber." (they/US are what? all ignorant.)
Isaiah 56:11 "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."

see g money..... we all was asleep, and some still is. (so no one can bark at Israel), YES, even 101G, until God sent someone and ..... "Slaped" the He?? our of me, (not literally), but by the scriptures, it had the same effect... YIKES! and then I woke up...... quickly and alert... see I had that Damascus road experince also. I got hit by a right cross all the way from heaven. when my eyes open then I was ready to actually to HEAR, and UNDERSTAND, the word of the Lord.

not only did have a Damascus road experince, but before that I had a Garden of gethsemane moment also. yes, I was sleeping, as Isaiah by God, I was in DEEP SLEEP, and yes, supposed to be on the Job. as with the Lord's disciples, I could not watch one hour.... but like the apostle Paul, the Lord Jesus had mercy on me... this, as well as the apostle, I do my best to present my Lord's words as best as I can. also as Paul, he thought me worthy to place me in his Ministry. so this is why I'm so adamant about this subject.... the Godhead.

now you are at a crossroad, on the Damascus road, you can go on believing that the Lord Jesus is actually, physically, sitting or standing next to someone else if you want to, but understand, you have been told, and you see that there is no one sitting or standing next to anyone. you can go on believing a lie, but you have to give an account to God, my Job is done, I have told you. and made it, the truth, plain as day. so you can do what you want from now on, it's on YOU.

now if iI was you, I would re-read this post as well as Post #535 above.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You just hit the nail on the head, two gods. And this is why I am not a trinitarian. This is why Jews will not become Christians. This is why people chose to be burned alive. People that are serious to the faith will not bow down to another god.


And yes, I think someone is actually sitting next to the Most High, if they are not it means the passage is a lie, the bible does not say someone is sitting next when the truth is there is NOT someone sittign next.


My eyes were open quite a while back, I grew up baptist, I was taught the trinity, original sin, women are not allowed to be preachers, Paul was one of the 12 and lots more things that are not in the bible. I decided to read the bible for myself, put my faith in the spirit, not worry about what other people think, im a better man for it.

There is no crossroad for me, I dont think the bible uses lies to teach, that would be very misleading.

 

[101G]

And yes, I think someone is actually sitting next to the Most High, if they are not it means the passage is a lie, the bible does not say someone is sitting next when the truth is there is NOT someone sittign next.

your crossroad is this.... there is no one setting next to anyone. understand?

ok listen, God is a Spirit Right. where is the Spirit Right side? tell me Location in Time and Space........ see your problem now?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

your crossroad is this.... there is no one setting next to anyone. understand?

ok listen, God is a Spirit Right. where is the Spirit Right side? tell me Location in Time and Space........ see your problem now?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

there is no one sitting next to anyone. so the whole theory is based on a lie. are you not seeing that?

i agree the Most High is spirit. the location of time space? where are the heavens? has a man ever been to the heavens and came back to report?

 

[jaybird]

your crossroad is this.... there is no one setting next to anyone. understand?

ok listen, God is a Spirit Right. where is the Spirit Right side? tell me Location in Time and Space........ see your problem now?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

the whole "right hand" terminology has been around forever. right hand man, sitting at the right hand of the king. these were real people. the right hand of the king might be the kings brother or a duke, your right hand man may be your best friend, no one has ever looked at this and thought the right hand of power of the king was the king himself and your right hand man was never you.
the right hand of the king is a pretty good example of what we been talking about, the kings right hand may be a duke, the duke is the most powerful noble in the kingdom, but the duke only has this power because of the king.

 

[101G]

sitting at the right hand of the king. these were real people.

ERROR, they, you, and Me are creatures..... creations of God, only God is real. see, we need to quit looking at things from OUR pooint of view.

just as with the understanding of "Right Hand". listen, God, who is Spirit don't need a hand in anything. it is us who try to understand God by using anthropomorphism.

understand g money, God is a Spirit, he fills both heaven and earth, so he has no tangable sides. what you need to do is look up, or research out the term, "Right Hand". because the only RIGHT HAND God have is the one that is part of his glourious new BODY. Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

now g money... think, listen, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." now if in that ONE BODY all of God dwells, how can someone sit next to their OWNSELF? well....... and if you used the "within" thing..., then Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." I is a single person designation. so there is no one beside him... listen, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

so within or out, there is no one else..... case closed.


now, since the door is closed, lets slam it shut tight... listen, 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

g money, if the Lord Jesus is the ONLY one who have immortality, meaning ETERNAL LIFE, that just eliminated any other PERSON... door slamed.

now care to comment on 1 Timothy 6:16?

the floor is yours.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

ERROR, they, you, and Me are creatures..... creations of God, only God is real. see, we need to quit looking at things from OUR pooint of view.

just as with the understanding of "Right Hand". listen, God, who is Spirit don't need a hand in anything. it is us who try to understand God by using anthropomorphism.

understand g money, God is a Spirit, he fills both heaven and earth, so he has no tangable sides. what you need to do is look up, or research out the term, "Right Hand". because the only RIGHT HAND God have is the one that is part of his glourious new BODY. Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

now g money... think, listen, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." now if in that ONE BODY all of God dwells, how can someone sit next to their OWNSELF? well....... and if you used the "within" thing..., then Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." I is a single person designation. so there is no one beside him... listen, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

so within or out, there is no one else..... case closed.


now, since the door is closed, lets slam it shut tight... listen, 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

g money, if the Lord Jesus is the ONLY one who have immortality, meaning ETERNAL LIFE, that just eliminated any other PERSON... door slamed.

now care to comment on 1 Timothy 6:16?

the floor is yours.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

the error is trying to make an argument that the right hand is the same person. you dont create a term, my right hand, and have it contradict itself. and the simple contradiction is you can not sit beside your own right hand, its a nonsensical statement. you can throw out all these metaphorical theories from here to Christmas but in the end you still have the same result, no matter how hard you try you can not sit at your own right hand, like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, you will never do it.
their may not be a "real" person sitting beside another but you dont use a symbolic term of someone sitting beside another person when there is only one person to begin with. it makes no sense.

 

[101G]

the error is trying to make an argument that the right hand is the same person. you dont create a term, my right hand, and have it contradict itself. and the simple contradiction is you can not sit beside your own right hand, its a nonsensical statement. you can throw out all these metaphorical theories from here to Christmas but in the end you still have the same result, no matter how hard you try you can not sit at your own right hand, like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, you will never do it.
their may not be a "real" person sitting beside another but you dont use a symbolic term of someone sitting beside another person when there is only one person to begin with. it makes no sense.

jaybird, look.... just leave it alone, and stay in darkness. you don't want to discuss and learn the truth. so just leave it alone.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

jaybird, look.... just leave it alone, and stay in darkness. you don't want to discuss and learn the truth. so just leave it alone.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

10g with respect i took on every challenge you threw at me. and i believe you disregarded most of mine. just because i do not have the exact same opinon as you does not mean me and everyone else is in darkness. putting so much worry into what other people are thinking is not the best way to go as it only leads to your thoughts being the thoughts of the last person you talked to. following the group and not thinking for ones self is darkness, i came out of the cave a while back, im not going back in.
and for the record, Jesus may be the Most High, i am on the fence with it. i lean way more to Jesus is a man. but the thread is about one must believe Jesus is the Most High or they are not a Christian, not saved, in darkness, etc. the bible does not say any of that. Jesus spent very little time teaching on what His specific nature was. there is no passage where Jesus called together the 12 and explained what His true nature was and they had to accept this nature or they could no longer follow. taking lots of separate passages and linking them together is not a clear teaching. did Peter tempt Eve in the garden, of course not, but Jesus tld Peter get behind me Satan, Satan is called the serpent, and the serpent tempted Eve, it must be Peter that tempted Eve, see how that works?
people from everywhere followed Jesus, they thought He was all kind of things, John, a prophet, the Christ, etc, no one was ever condemned for this. the true nature of Jesus is a personal choice, its something that can only be revealed by personal revelation, its not something that must be forced on the people. especially when the people that think its so important cant even agree on it.

 

[101G]

10g with respect i took on every challenge you threw at me. and i believe you disregarded most of mine. just because i do not have the exact same opinon as you does not mean me and everyone else is in darkness. putting so much worry into what other people are thinking is not the best way to go as it only leads to your thoughts being the thoughts of the last person you talked to. following the group and not thinking for ones self is darkness, i came out of the cave a while back, im not going back in.
and for the record, Jesus may be the Most High, i am on the fence with it. i lean way more to Jesus is a man. but the thread is about one must believe Jesus is the Most High or they are not a Christian, not saved, in darkness, etc. the bible does not say any of that. Jesus spent very little time teaching on what His specific nature was. there is no passage where Jesus called together the 12 and explained what His true nature was and they had to accept this nature or they could no longer follow. taking lots of separate passages and linking them together is not a clear teaching. did Peter tempt Eve in the garden, of course not, but Jesus tld Peter get behind me Satan, Satan is called the serpent, and the serpent tempted Eve, it must be Peter that tempted Eve, see how that works?
people from everywhere followed Jesus, they thought He was all kind of things, John, a prophet, the Christ, etc, no one was ever condemned for this. the true nature of Jesus is a personal choice, its something that can only be revealed by personal revelation, its not something that must be forced on the people. especially when the people that think its so important cant even agree on it.

first thanks for the reply, second, you failed every challenge I put to you. it not my beliefs nor your but what God say, and you cannot see what God is aying. that's not my fault, or anyone's else fault, but yours..
when scripture, plain as day, is shown unto you, and you refuse to believe the scriptures, then there is nothing I can do futher. people want to place JW or SDA and other in a classification of cults, but how can one call someone another a cultist when they themself is in a cult. I thought I was blind, when I first was introduce to the truth, but what I see now, no one is able to say, you're in a cult, when they themsellves are in the same deception.

so the truth is not for you right now, but keep on studying and hopefully your eyes will open.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

first thanks for the reply, second, you failed every challenge I put to you. it not my beliefs nor your but what God say, and you cannot see what God is aying. that's not my fault, or anyone's else fault, but yours..
when scripture, plain as day, is shown unto you, and you refuse to believe the scriptures, then there is nothing I can do futher. people want to place JW or SDA and other in a classification of cults, but how can one call someone another a cultist when they themself is in a cult. I thought I was blind, when I first was introduce to the truth, but what I see now, no one is able to say, you're in a cult, when they themsellves are in the same deception.

so the truth is not for you right now, but keep on studying and hopefully your eyes will open.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

the scripture didnt say any of that, i was talking to you, and with respect you are not scripture.

i grew up in this indoctrination, believing what they told me just as you have, when i searched the scriptures for myself and put the ideas to the test they failed. this is why the Apostles did not teach Jesus was the Most High, and most the early church fathers did not.

 

[jaybird]

John 14:28
You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Jesus and the Father are co equal yet Jesus Himself says the Father is greater, how some can ignore these passages is beyond me.

 

[jaybird]

Luke 18:19
Jesus spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.’

here is another problem text. in Luke a man calls Jesus good, Jesus says only the Most High is good, this man should be praised as one of the founders of the primary doctrines of the faith, but that is not what happens, this man gets corrected because Jesus tells him only the Most High is good.

 

[justbyfaith]

then He is not a man. you are a man and you said it yourself you are not the Most High.


red, brown, and black dogs are all dogs, the one dog that is cat and dog is not a dog, its a cat dog. this is what you dog examples is missing.

I think that you are arguing just for the sake of arguing; and that you really do understand my point.

 

[justbyfaith]

standing sitting, i dont see a difference. it sounds like splitting hairs, either way the hand belongs to the Father, not Jesus.

beside me also means within, no elohim within me, if i was a trinitarian this would turn my world upside down because the trinity says there are in fact three gods within the Most High, you can call them persons but they are still gods.
Thomas does not proclaim Jesus to be the Most High, He says elohim/theos, a son of the Most High is a god / elohim.

See posts #1-#6 of the following thread:

True Trinity.

 

[WaterSong]

That's not really addressing my question.
I believe I did......


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

No, you didn't. Just like you avoided the Omni-powers issue when you couldn't address that to its fullest.

 

[jaybird]

I think that you are arguing just for the sake of arguing; and that you really do understand my point.

i understand your point contradicts itself. a cat can not be a dog if its a cat now can it

 

[jaybird]

See posts #1-#6 of the following thread:

True Trinity.

the true trinity probably goes back to the Canaanites, IMO this was the first trinity of gods, the Most High said do not be like the Canaanites, they were evil. they were so evil they would even kill their own people, hey thats just what happened to Christianity when they adopted the trinity, they started killing other Christians just like the Canaanites. how interesting.

 

[justbyfaith]

the true trinity probably goes back to the Canaanites, IMO this was the first trinity of gods, the Most High said do not be like the Canaanites, they were evil. they were so evil they would even kill their own people, hey thats just what happened to Christianity when they adopted the trinity, they started killing other Christians just like the Canaanites. how interesting.

I understand then why you don't want to read my thread...you are afraid that you might be convinced of the doctrine of the Trinity...and because you think it is evil you believe that in that you would be being deceived.

However, if I have shown from the Bible that the Trinity is true and faithful doctrine, I think you should at least consider that it might be true and faithful doctrine.

Read posts #1-#6 of the following thread:

True Trinity.