A FEW QUICK COMMENTS ON FULFILLMENT ESCHATOLOGY

[WPM]

You know I believe 40 years is a generation, and it took a good minute to Jesus to arrive on the scene 400 years later after who was it Malachi? The age consisted of the law, priesthoods, sacrifices, when Jesus came he would put and end to that age by fulfilling what was promised in the Old Testament and establishing a new heavenly administration rather than the former earthly administration by the Law; which became fulfilled by Jesus and his abolished that term and it now allows all people to become children of God through faith in the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation.

The four disciples who privately asked Jesus when will be the end of the age? The age of what? The age of the earthly administration which came by and through Moses; replaced by Jesus. What does the end of the age mean? It was fulfilled in coming to an end at the divorcement of Jerusalem upon the return of Christ as he was promised to be seen, by those watching and waiting, and looking.

You force so much bias false teaching into Scripture. Understandably, you cannot support it with hard Scripture.

He will come physically, visibly, and literally – just as He left.

Acts 1:10 says, “while they (the disciples) beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

This passage tells us it is the actual “manner” or tropos (meaning style or mode) of His glorious ascent into heaven that will be the way He will return. How did He go?

Literally, physically, visibly.

•Physically: “This same Jesus.”
•Visibly: “while they beheld, he was taken up” - “as ye have seen Him go.”
•Literally: “In like manner.”

Contrary to what do you have been taught, the second coming of Christ has not happened neither is it a secret event. Such a mistaken view emanates from a wrong understanding of Scripture. Revelation 1:7, speaking of this climactic last day, John says,

“Behold, he (Christ) cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him (the Jews): and all kindreds of the earth (the Gentile nations) shall wail because of him”

This passage unmistakably shows that the glorious Second Advent will be the most amazing public event ever. To such an extent that “every eye shall see him.” The swiftness of Christ’s coming and the speed of the rescue of the saints precludes any possibility of the wicked repenting.

Jesus warned in Matthew 24:23-27: “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

Christ's coming shall be sudden and visible as lightning. What is more sudden and visually spectacular than lightning? Lightning is not hid! It can be seen by all across the sky. This is no secret snatch in this text.

Jesus tells us in Matthew 26:64: “Hereafter shall ye the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

This is repeated in Mark 14:62: “ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

Jesus said in Luke 21:26–27: “for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

This is the end of the age. It is the end of the world. He is coming visibly and powerfully to glorify the elect and this corrupt earth when He comes.

 

[WPM]

Dude of course human beings are evil, man. The creation is still fallen but in Christ all have been reconciled to the Father, with their sins paid for. Now whether or not a person is saved to the kingdom or not is up to God to judge, and it’s up to the person to seek.

The things you mentions here

“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭RSV‬‬

Revelation 21:1-4 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, | Revised Standard Version (RSV

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

bible.com

These are all spiritually principles to learn; God dwells with men and women now by the holy spirt of God given by Christ, and one day we will get to be up there with him.

There is no more brazen sea, and there is no more temple that remains; the first heaven and the first earth have passed away is a reference to the Jewish nation and its divorcement for killing the son of God, in my opinion.

The new Jerusalem is not of earth but of heaven, and that is here believers go from here to there, and Jesus said they would eat with Abraham, issac and Jacob.

Jesus kingdom also was never of this world so my expectations rely on the spiritual guidance and wisdom in consider the biblical context as best I can.

In Revelation 3:11-12, Christ promises His people, while also speaking of His glorious all-consummating Second Advent, “Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

This second coming passage confirms our notion. The heavenly city comes down from heaven with Christ when He returns.

Note that the exact detail described as occurring at the second coming – namely:

The “new Jerusalem” appears.
The “new Jerusalem … cometh down”
The “new Jerusalem … cometh down out of heaven.”
The “new Jerusalem … cometh down out of heaven … from God.”

This reading informs us that this “place,” which Christ spoke of has a name; being described as the New Jerusalem and that it “cometh down out of heaven” at His appearing. This truth should help those who struggle with the meaning and timing of Revelation 20, because Revelation 21:1-2 (which all commentators agree) appears immediately after the happenings of Revelation 20. Therefore, it places its appearing, which we have already established coincides with the second coming of the Lord, at the end of the millennium thus revealing a postmillennial appearing of Christ. Christ connects the appearance of the New Jerusalem at His coming, declaring, “Behold, I come quickly.” It is at this all-consummating event that the New Jerusalem comes “down out of heaven from my God.”

Further evidence that the prepared New Jerusalem is coming down to the new earth is found in Revelation 21:1-4. It declares, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”

The New Jerusalem does not stay in heaven. At the end of the millennium it descends to the new earth. We should not overlook: the detail described elsewhere in Scripture as occurring at the second coming of the Lord carefully matches that which takes place at the end of the millennium (definitely not the beginning). It is the “holy city, new Jerusalem” that is figuratively “prepared as a bride adorned for her husband” and which corresponds with the Lord’s teaching in John 14. This city is the only “prepared place” alluded to in the whole of the New Testament. This city, which appears with Christ at His coming, is undoubtedly a heavenly “place” and is the single focus of every true saint of God – the place of eternal peace and rest from sin, the effects of sin (including death), and all sinners forever.

 

[MatthewG]

When is judgment day where thee Bible says that the living and the dead will stand before Christ? This is the day that He puts the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left hand?

You force so much bias false teaching into Scripture. Understandably, you cannot support it with hard Scripture.

He will come physically, visibly, and literally – just as He left.

Acts 1:10 says, “while they (the disciples) beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

This passage tells us it is the actual “manner” or tropos (meaning style or mode) of His glorious ascent into heaven that will be the way He will return. How did He go?

Literally, physically, visibly.

•Physically: “This same Jesus.”
•Visibly: “while they beheld, he was taken up” - “as ye have seen Him go.”
•Literally: “In like manner.”

Contrary to what do you have been taught, the second coming of Christ has not happened neither is it a secret event. Such a mistaken view emanates from a wrong understanding of Scripture. Revelation 1:7, speaking of this climactic last day, John says,

“Behold, he (Christ) cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him (the Jews): and all kindreds of the earth (the Gentile nations) shall wail because of him”

This passage unmistakably shows that the glorious Second Advent will be the most amazing public event ever. To such an extent that “every eye shall see him.” The swiftness of Christ’s coming and the speed of the rescue of the saints precludes any possibility of the wicked repenting.

Jesus warned in Matthew 24:23-27: “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

Christ's coming shall be sudden and visible as lightning. What is more sudden and visually spectacular than lightning? Lightning is not hid! It can be seen by all across the sky. This is no secret snatch in this text.

Jesus tells us in Matthew 26:64: “Hereafter shall ye the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

This is repeated in Mark 14:62: “ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

Jesus said in Luke 21:26–27: “for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

This is the end of the age. It is the end of the world. He is coming visibly and powerfully to glorify the elect and this corrupt earth when He comes.

In Revelation 3:11-12, Christ promises His people, while also speaking of His glorious all-consummating Second Advent, “Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

This second coming passage confirms our notion. The heavenly city comes down from heaven with Christ when He returns.

Note that the exact detail described as occurring at the second coming – namely:

The “new Jerusalem” appears.
The “new Jerusalem … cometh down”
The “new Jerusalem … cometh down out of heaven.”
The “new Jerusalem … cometh down out of heaven … from God.”

This reading informs us that this “place,” which Christ spoke of has a name; being described as the New Jerusalem and that it “cometh down out of heaven” at His appearing. This truth should help those who struggle with the meaning and timing of Revelation 20, because Revelation 21:1-2 (which all commentators agree) appears immediately after the happenings of Revelation 20. Therefore, it places its appearing, which we have already established coincides with the second coming of the Lord, at the end of the millennium thus revealing a postmillennial appearing of Christ. Christ connects the appearance of the New Jerusalem at His coming, declaring, “Behold, I come quickly.” It is at this all-consummating event that the New Jerusalem comes “down out of heaven from my God.”

Further evidence that the prepared New Jerusalem is coming down to the new earth is found in Revelation 21:1-4. It declares, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”

The New Jerusalem does not stay in heaven. At the end of the millennium it descends to the new earth. We should not overlook: the detail described elsewhere in Scripture as occurring at the second coming of the Lord carefully matches that which takes place at the end of the millennium (definitely not the beginning). It is the “holy city, new Jerusalem” that is figuratively “prepared as a bride adorned for her husband” and which corresponds with the Lord’s teaching in John 14. This city is the only “prepared place” alluded to in the whole of the New Testament. This city, which appears with Christ at His coming, is undoubtedly a heavenly “place” and is the single focus of every true saint of God – the place of eternal peace and rest from sin, the effects of sin (including death), and all sinners forever.

No kidding, Jesus does make a promise to return.

I just don’t believe how people make take or understand the afterlife, compared to revelation 21-22.

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t understand why people disregard the fact is


Jesus was telling people they would see him return…

But people keep side stepping this because there is no record in history saying

“jesus came”,

I believe by faith he did so while people may expect him to; I have no intention of following after them that seek his return, but I will love them, pray with them and encourage them to continue to trust in God; even if they may decide to persecute me for standing and siding with believing Jesus and his apostles pertaining to returning.


Don’t you see if Jesus never came back to people he promised to come get which was the bride of Christ in that day, those people were lied to, and the lie continues to go in which people traditionally express that Jesus is coming back today when that is really misleading and actually negating the truth of his return.

Which was to a people which WERE PROMISED to see him,

Just look here at Jesus on trial,

Mark 14:62 he spoke to the councils saying

New International Version
“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Now do you think Jesus Christ told this man a lie or did he tell him the truth? Did he see the son of man coming? I’m sure he did if he had repented and turned towards God in which Jesus would save the bride of Christ from the wrath of God that fell on Jerusalem.

The signs of the time which Jesus foretold his disciples is overwhelmingly packed with information in Matthew, mark, and Luke. Further with acts and the rest of the letters.

 

[rwb]

I don’t understand why people disregard the fact is


Jesus was telling people they would see him return…

But people keep side stepping this because there is no record in history saying

“jesus came”,

I believe by faith he did so while people may expect him to; I have no intention of following after them that seek his return, but I will love them, pray with them and encourage them to continue to trust in God; even if they may decide to persecute me for standing and siding with believing Jesus and his apostles pertaining to returning.


Don’t you see if Jesus never came back to people he promised to come get which was the bride of Christ in that day, those people were lied to, and the lie continues to go in which people traditionally express that Jesus is coming back today when that is really misleading and actually negating the truth of his return.

Which was to a people which WERE PROMISED to see him,

Just look here at Jesus on trial,

Mark 14:62 he spoke to the councils saying

New International Version
“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Now do you think Jesus Christ told this man a lie or did he tell him the truth? Did he see the son of man coming? I’m sure he did if he had repented and turned towards God in which Jesus would save the bride of Christ from the wrath of God that fell on Jerusalem.

The signs of the time which Jesus foretold his disciples is overwhelmingly packed with information in Matthew, mark, and Luke. Further with acts and the rest of the letters.

I don't see anyone here saying they doubt Jesus will keep His word regarding His coming again. The problem you seem to be having is in thinking if He did not return within the generation of those disciples living then, then you believe He would be a liar. Where is your faith? Why do you doubt Christ will physically return in the same manner He left this earth? Do you really doubt the first century disciples will NOT see the Son of Man at His coming? Again, you need to examine the essence of faith. Faith is believing that which cannot be seen, because Christ, Who is God cannot lie.

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t doubt in Jesus returning at all, I believe it happened already by faith friend.

It perhaps happens for people at their death too, everyone is gonna come face Jesus.

People that continue to believe he is coming are those who perhaps have the story of the Gospel wrong, @rwb.

 

[MatthewG]

And yes Jesus would be a liar if he promised to come to that generation and never show up.

That is exactly what happens in the Gospel.

You have Jesus who was sent from God in flesh claiming returning, and his apostles proclaiming the same.


People tell me he is still coming, but why?

Why does he need to come back again?

To justify a person shope of faith? Sign seeking, @rwb?

 

[rwb]

I don’t doubt in Jesus returning at all, I believe it happened already by faith friend.

It perhaps happens for people at their death too, everyone is gonna come face Jesus.

People that continue to believe he is coming are those who perhaps have the story of the Gospel wrong, @rwb.

Yes, I understand as a full Preterist your faith relies on physical fulfillment, which is NOT biblical faith! In fact your so-called faith says Christ is a liar if He did not return when you believe He said He would. Not only do you lack true biblical faith, but you also lack understanding of Biblical doctrine altogether, and you certainly do not understand prophecy of His coming again!

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, I understand as a full Preterist your faith relies on physical fulfillment, which is NOT biblical faith! In fact your so-called faith says Christ is a liar if He did not return when you believe He said He would. Not only do you lack true biblical faith, but you also lack understanding of Biblical doctrine altogether, and you certainly do not understand prophecy of His coming again!

How can it not be when its faith in what jesus had said? How is that not believing what the biblical jesus said?

That is okay not everyone is well equipped all the time, and not everyone knows everything, and maybe I’m wrong.

But if you die before you see Jesus comes, again supposedly will you be still hopeful or hopeless?

 

[MatthewG]

Unfortunately people cant thwart over a person faith, people can bicker about beliefs but when it comes to faith and that is something you place your trust you can’t really do anything else but say okay, and walk away, really… a person faith can be broke down though, through time and experience. Build up your faith on trusting the promises of God and also understanding the context and contents surrounding the written Gospels and the letters and the Old Testament. That will never steer you in the wrong way when lead by the spirit.

 

[WPM]

I don’t doubt in Jesus returning at all, I believe it happened already by faith friend.

It perhaps happens for people at their death too, everyone is gonna come face Jesus.

People that continue to believe he is coming are those who perhaps have the story of the Gospel wrong, @rwb.

Many Bible students (including Preterists and Premillennialists) dive into Matthew 24 without recognizing the intro to Christ's comments in Matthew 23. There He talks about 2 events - AD70 and His climactic return at the end of time.

Jesus said in Matthew 23:37–39: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”

Jesus, first of all, speaks about the destruction of the temple in AD70, as a result of Israel's unbelief. He then talks about a future climactic day in the future when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Here were two key events that would happen in the then future. The disciples were obviously inquisitive as to when these would happen. They then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words. Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “Tell us, when shall these things be?”
2. “and what shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end (sunteleías, meaning completion, or consummation) of the world (age)?”

This proves that the disciples were enquiring about the realization of these two aforementioned days. They wanted to know about their fulfillment. Sadly, Preterists and Premillennialists each ignore the other's events relating to the past and the future. Both are therefore missing the context and meaning. The context proves that Israel will be forced to cry "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" at Christ's future "parousia," at "the end of the age.”

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming. Jesus addresses the greatest event first. He talks about the trying events that will precede His glorious return, and then reassures: “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” This introductory part pertaining to the intra-Advent period relates to Matthew 24:4-14. Mark 13:5-13 and Luke 21:8-19 parallels.

Jesus then changes track and refers to the events that surround the destruction of the temple and city of Jerusalem in Matthew 24:15-22, Mark 13:14-20 and Luke 21:20-24.

Christ's shift to answering the second question (re the future second coming) comes in Matthew 24:23, Mark 13:21 and Luke 21:25. These are all parallel accounts. Our Lord describes events that will precede His return, and then speaks about that climactic event also. The detail re generation speaks that genea alive when He returns in power and glory. The subject in view continues until the end of each respective chapter.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:23-51: “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai], but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

 

[WPM]

I don’t doubt in Jesus returning at all, I believe it happened already by faith friend.

It perhaps happens for people at their death too, everyone is gonna come face Jesus.

People that continue to believe he is coming are those who perhaps have the story of the Gospel wrong, @rwb.

Jesus said in Mark 13:21-37: “And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai], but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

Jesus said in Luke 21:25-36: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative]. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai]: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

Context proves that the phrase “this generation” relates to those alive before Christ’s one final future climactic coming. It has nothing to do with first century events or AD70. Jesus was talking about events preceding His climactic future coming at the end of this age.

 

[MatthewG]

I still don’t believe that is true @WPM. But people think Jesus is a joke to be speaking to that generation. He must be an idiot and not to be trusted ya know?

I don’t care if you believe Jesus is coming back today or not, we will be judged one day after dying here.

People will punch me in the mouth and the head over and over just because they wanna make the generation “future”, for today.

That leaves hope for Jesus coming the clouds and people will get to see the most galactic lifetime event when all the wicked are done away with and everything.

It’s something people hope to see in their day; but considering the audience those people went through some suffering even losing their lives for the gospel of Christ.


That’s not happening today… but people hope for it to happen, they would love to be able to see someone rose up and stated killing Christian’s left and right, and those Christian people who desired to see idk how many of them would start turning around to keep their life.

 

[MatthewG]

Also I’m still waiting for a political figure that comes around promising that they can stop death. Maybe that is the antichrist, but I believe Nero was the Antichrist, so. It’s whatever.

 

[WPM]

I still don’t believe that is true @WPM. But people think Jesus is a joke to be speaking to that generation. He must be an idiot and not to be trusted ya know?

I don’t care if you believe Jesus is coming back today or not, we will be judged one day after dying here.

People will punch me in the mouth and the head over and over just because they wanna make the generation “future”, for today.

That leaves hope for Jesus coming the clouds and people will get to see the most galactic lifetime event when all the wicked are done away with and everything.

It’s something people hope to see in their day; but considering the audience those people went through some suffering even losing their lives for the gospel of Christ.


That’s not happening today… but people hope for it to happen, they would love to be able to see someone rose up and stated killing Christian’s left and right, and those Christian people who desired to see idk how many of them would start turning around to keep their life.

You cannot even address the counter-arguments that forbid your error.

Revelation 1:7 declares: “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him” (Revelation 1:7).

Did every eye see Jesus coming back in AD70?
Upon His appearing, did the Jews wail over Him?
Did the Gentiles also wail because of Him?

 

[WPM]

I still don’t believe that is true @WPM. But people think Jesus is a joke to be speaking to that generation. He must be an idiot and not to be trusted ya know?

I don’t care if you believe Jesus is coming back today or not, we will be judged one day after dying here.

People will punch me in the mouth and the head over and over just because they wanna make the generation “future”, for today.

That leaves hope for Jesus coming the clouds and people will get to see the most galactic lifetime event when all the wicked are done away with and everything.

It’s something people hope to see in their day; but considering the audience those people went through some suffering even losing their lives for the gospel of Christ.


That’s not happening today… but people hope for it to happen, they would love to be able to see someone rose up and stated killing Christian’s left and right, and those Christian people who desired to see idk how many of them would start turning around to keep their life.

Acts 1:10 says, “while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

This passage tells us it is the actual “manner” or tropos (meaning style or mode) of His glorious ascent into heaven that will be the way He will return. How did He go?

Literally, physically, visibly.

•Physically: “This same Jesus.”
•Visibly: “while they beheld, he was taken up” - “as ye have seen Him go.”
•Literally: “In like manner.”

• Did Jesus Christ come physically with the coming of Titus in AD70?
• Did Jesus Christ come visibly with the coming of Titus in AD70?
• Did Jesus Christ come literally with the coming of Titus in AD70?

 

[MatthewG]

Everyone that believed on Him did. Those who were told to watch, and wait and look, they seen him and they were part of the bride taken away from the wrath of God that fell on Jerusalem for doing what? Killing the son of God.

I have no proof though, it’s something I believe totally and completely in faith.

There is no statement in history saying “Jesus came”,

There are obviously signs to see, and quoting revelation 1:7 doesn’t hold much water compared to the Greek.

But these are subjective matters.

 

[MatthewG]

Acts 1:10 says, “while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

This passage tells us it is the actual “manner” or tropos (meaning style or mode) of His glorious ascent into heaven that will be the way He will return. How did He go?

Literally, physically, visibly.

•Physically: “This same Jesus.”
•Visibly: “while they beheld, he was taken up” - “as ye have seen Him go.”
•Literally: “In like manner.”

• Did Jesus Christ come physically with the coming of Titus in AD70?
• Did Jesus Christ come visibly with the coming of Titus in AD70?
• Did Jesus Christ come literally with the coming of Titus in AD70?

I believe he did come, in faith without any evidence or proof other than believing Jesus the apostles and John the beloved.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Revelation 1:1-7 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare rec | King James Version (KJV) | Dow

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare rec

bible.com

 

[Truth7t7]

You force so much bias false teaching into Scripture. Understandably, you cannot support it with hard Scripture.

He will come physically, visibly, and literally – just as He left.

Acts 1:10 says, “while they (the disciples) beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

This passage tells us it is the actual “manner” or tropos (meaning style or mode) of His glorious ascent into heaven that will be the way He will return. How did He go?

Literally, physically, visibly.

•Physically: “This same Jesus.”
•Visibly: “while they beheld, he was taken up” - “as ye have seen Him go.”
•Literally: “In like manner.”

Contrary to what do you have been taught, the second coming of Christ has not happened neither is it a secret event. Such a mistaken view emanates from a wrong understanding of Scripture. Revelation 1:7, speaking of this climactic last day, John says,

“Behold, he (Christ) cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him (the Jews): and all kindreds of the earth (the Gentile nations) shall wail because of him”

This passage unmistakably shows that the glorious Second Advent will be the most amazing public event ever. To such an extent that “every eye shall see him.” The swiftness of Christ’s coming and the speed of the rescue of the saints precludes any possibility of the wicked repenting.

Jesus warned in Matthew 24:23-27: “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

Christ's coming shall be sudden and visible as lightning. What is more sudden and visually spectacular than lightning? Lightning is not hid! It can be seen by all across the sky. This is no secret snatch in this text.

Jesus tells us in Matthew 26:64: “Hereafter shall ye the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

This is repeated in Mark 14:62: “ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

Jesus said in Luke 21:26–27: “for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

This is the end of the age. It is the end of the world. He is coming visibly and powerfully to glorify the elect and this corrupt earth when He comes.

I Agree, however you didn't mention those great verse of the second coming seen in your 70AD preterist interpretation of Matthew Chapter 24, smiles!

Immediately After The "Tribulation Of Those Days" Future Unfullfilled

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[MatthewG]

John’s first introduction

Firstly starting off with Jesus who is the head, which God gave to Jesus in which by an angel is revealed to John,


Consider ?

“John to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia: Grace to you, and peace, from Him who is, and who was, and who is coming, and from the Seven Spirits that are before His throne,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia: Grace to you, and peace, from Him who is, and who was, and who is coming, and from the Seven Spirits that are before His throne | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The

John to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia: Grace to you, and peace, from Him who is, and who was, and who is coming, and from the Seven Spirits that are before His throne

bible.com

John wrote to seven assemblies. That are in a real location, Asia; or Asia Minor.

Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.

Grace be to you, and peace from Him which is, and which was, and which is to come,
Idk what the seven spirits are, but they are before the Thorne of God; John also adds that grace and peace may come to them form Jesus whom is the faithful witness and first begotten of the dead - first person to be raised back from the dead by the Father, and that Jesus is the prince of the kings of the earth (either the land or surround area, possibly world not sure haven’t looked in a while).

Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

John wrote saying Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and has made us kings and priest unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.

John states that because of Jesus they have been washed in the blood and their sins have been taken care of by his death. He, Jesus the prince of the kings of the earth, makes them in to kings and priest unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. (To the ages of the ages?)

When considering this, perhaps in a spiritual sense as believers you to are made into king and priest, with the prince of the kings being Jesus as the one whom is the head; unto God his Father.

Or perhaps this was a promise made to them which they where as king and priest, would be good to go check those words out.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”

After addressing the former; John goes on to write, Behold, he comes with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also pierced him: and all the kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even So, Amen.

This a English to greek translation of same verse above.

“Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen!”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1‬:‭7‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Revelation 1:7 Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen! | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen!

bible.com

From my perspective what John is writing about here is that; Jesus would come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, and those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all of the tribes of the land.

There are some accounts in early history about seeing horses and chariots and things in the clouds, perhaps by Josephus (I have the book just need to really read it more and study it out very detailed person in writing even though he may exaggerate sometimes, but that was due to growing up in Jerusalem in 37 Ad.) but considering he was an unbeliever and people seen things in the clouds is interesting at least to mention.

Those who pierced him - this is why we should be thankful and respectful to the culture of Jewish people now today due to the former having envied Jesus and turns him to the Roman’s, the Jews are responsible for the blood of Christ so, those who pierced him would see him coming in the heavens, and perhaps these were people who repented in order to have salvation in Christ and also be saved from the wrath of God.

And wail because of him - is this in response for the judgment people were charged with, having disobeyed and rejected after many times of being able to repent their judgment and fate would be sealed upon the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

Shall all the tribes of the land, - with every eye should see him coming in the clouds, this could refer to the people here in the tribes of the land who are wailing at the sight of the great and dreadful day of the Lord rejecting even during being inflicted with plagues, cursing God. Having killed the Son of God, the tribes would wail because of him, and because of their crime, which the wrath of God was initiated to come down upon them and leave it desolated to the ground.

You can also see that those tribes, were perhaps the nation of Israel tribes of the 12, original are still all living and breathing having community; and they were all in the nearby lands which they had received from God. There was also those who were scattered abroad among Gentile nations, and the Gentiles also came into the fold after the dead of Christ, and that was also part of Gods purpose to reach all people through the Lord.