A most shocking response

[Dcopymope]

wadr you seem a little too sure of this for me. We can witness the world passing away, and yet God is excluded from being "here," see.
God is here, right now--omnipresence--and for all you know "this is the maximum level of being with Me."

Once again, when the Bible describes his presence, its not described as if he is some blob that is bound to the creation and vice versa. This isn't some pantheistic deity we're talking about. He is present because he chooses to be. He can just as easily withdraw his presence from you just as easily as he can reveal himself in the form of a burning bush. He doesn't need to be in your presence to see everything. He sent us the Holy Spirit, and he can just as easily withdraw it, but he won't, because he promised that he will never forsake us.

(Psalms 51:11) "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me."

God departs the temple at Jerusalem, letting the Bible speak for itself:

(Ezekiel 10:1-4) "Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. {2} And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight. {3} Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court. {4} Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD’S glory........"

(Ezekiel 10:17-19) "When they stood, these stood; and when they were lifted up, these lifted up themselves also: for the spirit of the living creature was in them. {18} Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims. {19} And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD’S house; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above."

(Ezekiel 11:22-23) "¶ Then did the cherubims lift up their wings, and the wheels beside them; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above. {23} And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city."

And once again, his presence will once again be on earth, the new earth that is, as revealed to John.

(Revelation 21:2-3) "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. {3} And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

so fwiw i would at least come to some personal accomodation with
the dead know nothing
no one knows where they go when they die
all go to the same place
etc

Well I know no one goes to heaven when you die unless God wants you there.

(Acts 2:29) "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day......."

(Acts 2:34-36) "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, {35} Until I make thy foes thy footstool. {36} Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."

So......King David didn't go to heaven when he died, yet I'm assuming you believe that you are more special than David that God will send you to heaven. Is that the idea here??

 

[Helen]

@bbyrd009 Why not...you are back to your Either-Or scenario again.

What we have now is the "Foretaste " of things to come..the Promise...the ernest of our expectation...it is not the fullness of what will be...Rev 21-22 is.

Our faith is the substance of..the evidence of thing "not seen" Heb 11.1.
" In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory." Eph 1:13-

 

[Dcopymope]

How do you read Revelation 21 and 22 then ?
That is the picture vision of The End...and the New beginning.

It first states that the old heaven and earth are passed away and then describes New Jerusalem descending from the new heaven along with God himself towards earth, to dwell with his creation. If this one verse doesn't clear the air for you, then there is nothing more I have to say about it. God will come to us, not vice versa.

(Revelation 21:24) "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."

If this were heaven, we wouldn't be talking about "kings of the earth".

 

[bbyrd009]

yet I'm assuming you believe that you are more special than David that God will send you to heaven. Is that the idea here?

no, sorry

 

[bbyrd009]

If this one verse doesn't clear the air for you, then there is nothing more I have to say about it.

all you have said about it so far is that you do not know how to read it wadr

 

[Dcopymope]

in some undetermined future mass event, right, that is what must happen in your opinion, because that is what you have interpreted, and to hell with any Scripture that contrasts this pov, right, you are by God going to wait until you see wool coming from that Lamb of God, or else huh

This is not my opinion, this is the word of God.

all you have said about it so far is that you do not know how to read it wadr

"You do not know how to read it"

...No, this is just you refusing to see what's plainly revealed. What this really is, is you don't have a problem with my interpretation, you have a problem with scripture because it contradicts your need to spiritualize everything, and what you and most Christians believe spirit is, etc. If you can't back up your spiritualization of every single verse, then I rest my case.

 

[bbyrd009]

@bbyrd009 Why not...you are back to your Either-Or scenario again.

so you say, but really i am just giving no thought for tomorrow imo

does anyone in an institutional church believe anything that you believe, say about what might happen tomorrow?
then i would at least suspect that belief, as i suspect that thief in the night will be the best concept to apply to those who think they are going anywhere special when they die, and moan about how bad their life (more abundantly) is right now, today.

otherwise you will be forced to entertain two gospels, or two kingdoms, or even two saviors, all in the pursuit of essentially denying God imo
Understand I AM

 

[bbyrd009]

This is not my opinion, this is the word of God.

gee, never heard a pastor say that before, huh

ya no, honest It isn't, not even a little ok, the Book is the Law, not the Word
and we have search tools to verify this now too, so continuing to be blind is just willful now imo

gotta run, have a nice day

 

[bbyrd009]

"You do not know how to read it"

fwiw there are entire chapters that i am not qualified to read yet ok, don't take this wrong

 

[Dcopymope]

fwiw there are entire chapters that i am not qualified to read yet ok, don't take this wrong

"Qualified"? You have the holy spirit don't you? That's all the qualification you need, plus you have your Lexicon and the internet. This isn't rocket science.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Qualified"? You have the holy spirit don't you? That's all the qualification you need, plus you have your Lexicon and the internet. This isn't rocket science.

well i dunno what to tell you, there are many passages that i once accepted at face value that i now question my interpretation of based upon some hearing since then, my definition of "talents" has altered since i started this forum even. Imo rocket science is much easier than human nature lol

 

[amadeus]

well i dunno what to tell you, there are many passages that i once accepted at face value that i now question my interpretation of based upon some hearing since then, my definition "talents" has altered since i started this forum even. Imo rocket science is much easier than human nature lol

And probably neither one of them hold a candle to God:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

 

[Dcopymope]

well i dunno what to tell you, there are many passages that i once accepted at face value that i now question my interpretation of based upon some hearing since then, my definition of "talents" has altered since i started this forum even. Imo rocket science is much easier than human nature lol

Well we aren't discussing human nature, we are discussing the word of God.

 

[mjrhealth]

Having access to God through the high priest is not the same as God physically dwelling with you on earth. If he was here, the world would be singing a different tune.

For those who have Him there is no difference.

 

[Dcopymope]

For those who have Him there is no difference.

Right well, its easy to say that now, especially for Christians who live in certain countries that have had an easy life, you know, like America or Australia who haven't had to truly suffer persecution for the faith in comparison to others who are already going through hell. We will see how many Christians will be singing that tune during the Great Tribulation, when Satan gets angry. "Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, for the Devil has come upon you having great wrath" won't just apply to unbelievers. There are some who believe they are special I guess, because they "have Jesus".

 

[bbyrd009]

Well we aren't discussing human nature, we are discussing the word of God.

ya, you might be right, if you're reading from an interlinear or something, and you're fluent in Greek.
In English you are mostly reading code imo

 

[bbyrd009]

We will see how many Christians will be singing that tune during the Great Tribulation, when Satan gets angry.

fear-mongering tomorrow, really Dc?

 

[Dcopymope]

ya, you might be right, if you're reading from an interlinear or something, and you're fluent in Greek.
In English you are mostly reading code imo

Its been translated for you with great accuracy and you have the lexicon if there is a word you may have a problem with. Oh and let's not forget that Holy Spirit, unless you believe "human nature" trumps that as well. If you have a brain capable of putting two numbers together to come to a logical conclusion, you will be fine. Letting the Bible speak for itself has served me well.

fear-mongering tomorrow, really Dc?

If you want to call prophecy fear mongering then knock yourself out.

 

[bbyrd009]

Its been translated for you with great accuracy and you have the lexicon if there is a word you may have a problem with. Oh and let's not forget that Holy Spirit, unless you believe "human nature" trumps that as well. If you have a brain capable of putting two numbers together to come to a logical conclusion, you will be fine. Letting the Bible speak for itself has served me well.

yes, but you no doubt still believe that Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," right, and your "great accuracy" includes "Easter" where i read Passover, and i guess ignores those passages about scribes too.

which is your right ok, you can certainly believe what you like, and you might even be a better person than me too, that wouldn't be too hard

 

[bbyrd009]

If you have a brain capable of putting two numbers together to come to a logical conclusion, you will be fine.

if you think you can read the Book logically and make it work, then imo you are the blindest of all
(common "you" there ok, not you specifically)