Believe Right = Live HOLY

[Stan B]

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Those who say that they have placed their trust in Jesus, but continue in a life of lawlessness, have obviously never placed their trust in Him.

I don't know how this works with others, but even when I want to explore inappropriate thoughts, even from an academic point of view, my brain just totally shuts down, and won't even allow me to think about such things.

 

[Behold]

That seems to be the way my Bible reads, and the foundation of our faith.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

God did it, and we get it. = "Grace THROUGH Faith"..."without works".
If you take Jesus, God takes you.

Salvation, as you know, is what God offers.
its not what we earn, or work out..
Its what GOD completed on the Cross, and offers as "the gift of Salvation".

 

[Behold]

Those who say that they have placed their trust in Jesus, but continue in a life of lawlessness, have

Exactly.
If Jesus does not "know you" then that is because you are not born again into the Family of God.
As once you are, He knows you, as you are "family".
God knows His family... The Born again., and God knows who isn't, = "depart i never KNEW YOU".

 

[Behold]

If you never repent then you stay a sinner. Closed book. With sin comes sorrow.

Open your book, and open your mind.
SEE THIS.
Jesus has all the sin of the born again.
We have ALL Christ's Righteousness. "The righteousness of GOD = IN CHRIST"
This is why we are born again.
If He does not have our sin, on the CROSS, then we have it, and we are not born again.

We , the born again, are THE TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit. = "body of Christ".
This means that GOD, is IN US>.
God does not live in a SINNER.
Understand?
So, if you are a sinner, God is not in you.
If you are born again, its BECAUSE you are not a sinner, and that is proven by the fact that GOD is in you.
God and SIN do not co-exist in the same place, followhim.
There is no sin in heaven because that is where GOD EXISTs... There is no sin found "IN CHRIST" were we exist, because that is God in us...= NO SIN FOUND THERE.
"case closed".

 

[FollowHim]

Open your book, and open your mind.
SEE THIS.
Jesus has all the sin of the born again.
We have ALL Christ's Righteousness. "The righteousness of GOD = IN CHRIST"
This is why we are born again.
If He does not have our sin, on the CROSS, then we have it, and we are not born again.

We , the born again, are THE TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit. = "body of Christ".
This means that GOD, is IN US>.
God does not live in a SINNER.
Understand?
So, if you are a sinner, God is not in you.
If you are born again, its BECAUSE you are not a sinner, and that is proven by the fact that GOD is in you.
God and SIN do not co-exist in the same place, followhim.
There is no sin in heaven because that is where GOD EXISTs... There is no sin found "IN CHRIST" were we exist, because that is God in us...= NO SIN FOUND THERE.
"case closed".

There is a problem with your proposition. One sinful act destroys your theology, because by you token a sinner can no longer have the Holy Spirit.
If you ignore sinful behaviour and call it righteous even though it is sinful, you corrupt the meaning of righteousness and truth.

The reason why there is tension in our walk, because like a child learning to walk, we stumble and fall, but need to pick ourselves up again and walk again. This is the key point, recognition of failure, putting things right and walking on. Peter describes this to the extent of praying for anothers sin, and it will be forgiven, but not for sin that leads to death. Now to even declare such a thing, is to declare we can fail, and be forgiven, confess and get right with God. It is not easy or simple, but essential the work of sanctification. If one denies this walk, then blindness rules, and the very issues that God needs to heal and resolve are not even admitted. And that is crucial, healing, transformation, faithfulness and perseverance.

If one believes we are perfect from the beginning this means most will fall away in despair and unbelief when they discover how deeply these issues are part of us, and our walk in the world, and need Gods Holy Spirit to work and change these things.

 

[Behold]

There is a problem with your proposition. One sinful act destroys your theology,

If you think that your sin ruins or stops or ends your Salvation, then you are either not saved and are religious but lost and are clueless regarding the Gift of Righteousness , or You are born again and are clueless regarding the Fact that Colossians 2:13 is in the NT.
Do you have a Bible?
Check out that verse.

See, there is no SIN in Christ.
Are you "in Christ"? or not ?
So, you can't sin your way out of Salvation, when ALL your sin has already been forgiven on the Cross 2000 yrs ago, including your next one, that isn't really a sin, but is a carnal deed, or as Paul defines it : a "work of the Flesh".
Are you saved, or are you just water baptized and deceived? ??
If that is the case, then you are still in your sin, you are this.... John 3:36 and you need to resolve that before you die.
If you are born again, and not by water.... then your sin , all of it, has been resolved by the Blood of Jesus, 2000 yrs ago.
If you believe that all your sin is not resolved by the BLood of Jesus then you have been deceived by your Pastor, Pope, Minister, Family, friends, denomination, commentary, or whomever or whatever that led you to NOT UNDERSTAND the Grace of God, as the Blood Atonement.
Work on that.
Study.
Start here...
Romans 3:21-28
Titus 3:5

 

[FollowHim]

If you think that your sin ruins or stops or ends your Salvation, then you are either not saved and are religious but lost and are clueless regarding the Gift of Righteousness , or You are born again and are clueless regarding the Fact that Colossians 2:13 is in the NT.
Do you have a Bible?
Check out that verse.

See, there is no SIN in Christ.
Are you "in Christ"? or not ?
So, you can't sin your way out of Salvation, when ALL your sin has already been forgiven on the Cross 2000 yrs ago, including your next one, that isn't really a sin, but is a carnal deed, or as Paul defines it : a "work of the Flesh".
Are you saved, or are you just water baptized and deceived? ??
If that is the case, then you are still in your sin, you are this.... John 3:36 and you need to resolve that before you die.
If you are born again, and not by water.... then your sin , all of it, has been resolved by the Blood of Jesus, 2000 yrs ago.
If you believe that all your sin is not resolved by the BLood of Jesus then you have been deceived by your Pastor, Pope, Minister, Family, friends, denomination, commentary, or whomever or whatever that led you to NOT UNDERSTAND the Grace of God, as the Blood Atonement.
Work on that.
Study.
Start here...
Romans 3:21-28
Titus 3:5

Sadly you are saying sin and Jesus are compatible. This is the opposite of Jesus and His message.
The reason why the pharisees where rejected because they had made the compromise you are pushing, because they claimed to be Gods chosen, preached what love and righteousness was, but did not follow it themselves.

If you cannot admit this is a problem, then you have not begun to see the difference between light and darkness.
Anyone can claim to be from the light, yet Jesus declared simply His people would be shown by the love they have one for another. Those that sin continuously with no sensitivity to each other will never be able to form such a community or begin to see the fulfilment of the promise of the Holy Spirit working in the believers heart.

Now suggesting I need to read scripture for me clearly speaks of being religious as opposed to knowing God.
John describes that our authority is founded on when we walk like Jesus. So if you walk like Jesus, you have something I could respect or listen to. To deny that sin leads to death is simply heresy. God bless you

 

[justbyfaith]

When some believe most are wrong, it is they who do not know Jesus's reality.

Actually, see Matthew 7:13-14.

Think about that for a while, before you run to 1 John 1 and try to twist that verse again and again and again.

Now you have to say that the verses in 1 John are being twisted; because you deny their veracity with your doctrine. And therefore in order for your doctrine to survive, you have to say that the plain interpretation of verses in 1 John 1, such as 1 John 1:7-9, are being twisted out of context when they are merely being quoted.

However, they are not being twisted out of context. They are merely being quoted and brought to bear on your doctrine; and because of this your doctrine has been weighed in the balances and found wanting.

Post the "gnostic" theology, regarding where it is exactly what i teach, YOU SAY, = YOU ACCUES ME.... so that we here on the Fourm can see that you have even any knowledge of their theology, having actually read any of it.

Suffice it to say that John was combating gnosticism when he wrote 1 John. So then, he wrote 1 John 1:7-9 in order to combat gnosticism; and therefore if someone posts things contrary to those verses, we conclude that the doctrine that they carry is gnostic or semi-gnostic.

Provide it, deceiver.

You are being rather harsh with her; but your words are not directed against me. And I will say to you, that you have three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42, Luke 6:37).

For you deceive not only others; but you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8).

God does not live in a SINNER.
Understand?
So, if you are a sinner, God is not in you.
If you are born again, its BECAUSE you are not a sinner, and that is proven by the fact that GOD is in you.

Again, we are not sinners in that we "do not" and "can not" sin (1 John 3:9).

However, we are sinners in that we have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8).

So then, I am a sinner under one definition of the word; but under another definition I am not a sinner.

If you are born again, and not by water....

If anyone is born again, it is by water and the Spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is a sense in which it is scriptural.

We are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

What this means is that the law no longer points us out as sinners (Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13)...

It no longer condemns us from the outside (as being written on tablets of stone); while it most assuredly ought to govern us from the inside (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4); as being written on fleshy tables of human hearts (2 Corinthians 3:3).

See also Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 7:18-19.

How is that in a sense scriptural to not call sin, sin? What does 1 John 3:8 mean?

 

[justbyfaith]

How is that in a sense scriptural to not call sin, sin? What does 1 John 3:8 mean?

Because we are not under the law, are dead to it, and are delivered from it (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6)...And sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13). In other words, the law does not count you as a sinner if you are not under it, are dead to it, and are delivered from it. It cannot impute unrighteousness to you.

 

[Enoch111]

See, the reason 99% of the born again can't live holy all the time is because they are not walking in the Light.

Looks like you continue to delude yourself thinking that you are among the 1% of *Enlightened Ones*. Or have you already joined the *Ascended Masters*?

You are opening thread after thread after thread with BOGUS THEOLOGY, when you should be sitting quietly and learning the truth.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Jesus says simply the love in their heart will show their true reality.

I know someone who went to church their whole life, yet get too close and they will eat you. However they constructed things thorns and thistles dominated.

We cannot know who has found God and who has not but this fruit speaks volumes. Put simply when blows reign down what is one's response? Love or hate? Indignation, or prayer for the sinners soul? Jesus prayed, so should we.

Since I was born, I don't remember ever hating anyone. I never stole candy from a store, or didn't alert the cashier if they gave me too much change. I never lied to my parents. I never treated the rich preferentially, and I always loved Jesus. I always stood up for the underdog, the one other's made fun off, and they were the ones I chose as friends. But the rich and famous were also my friends, and gravitated toward me. I treated the President of the United States (only knew one) and the janitors of my building the same - with interest and a smile. But I wasn't born again. If I had died before I was 29 years old, I would have gone to hell. Interesting...

 

[CharismaticLady]

Because we are not under the law, are dead to it, and are delivered from it (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6)...And sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13).

You are talking as if we are lawless (like Behold). Our law is deeper and more thorough than the law we are no longer under. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ, has set me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2. Romans 8:9.

In other words, the law does not count you as a sinner if you are not under it, are dead to it, and are delivered from it. It cannot impute unrighteousness to you.

Here is a verse many do not understand. For instance, Seventh-day Adventists quote and think they understand James 2:8-11, but do not add verse 12. But it is verse 12 that we are under, not 8-11.

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Never.
I dont confess or repent.
I walk in the Spirit.
(See my Threads).

Try to understand that Paul said this.
Or even better, try to BELIEVE IT at some point in your LIFE

= "if you walk in the SPIRIT, you will not SIN".

See this part? = "will not sin"?

Think about that for a while, before you run to 1 John 1 and try to twist that verse again and again and again..

How did you receive the Spirit to walk in if you never repented of your past life of sin to receive Him? Acts 2:38-39.

What verse in 1 John 1 do you believe I, personally, twist? There are some who twist 1 John 1:8, but I'm not one of them. BTW if you are zeroing in on 1 John, "Will not sin" is in 1 John 3:9. Or are you speaking of Galatians 5:16. That verse is true and the Spirit does not lead you into verses 19-21. You seem to believe that a Christian can do the sins of 19-21, and STILL inherit the Kingdom of God. That's delusional.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That seems to be the way my Bible reads, and the foundation of our faith.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

The key word is "believe" and how we define it. Some define it loosely, and others know that the opposite of believe is disobedience.

1 Peter 2:7
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,”

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, demons know who He is, but they do not believe in Him. The message I get from Scripture is that those who believe in Him place their trust in Him. We are given new life as a new creation in Christ Jesus.

"However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 8:9

The way I see it is that when we are born again we become a new creature, with a new spirit; the Spirit of God now indwells us.

Read what I wrote to @FollowHim in #52. How do you know you are born again? Is it just because the Bible says the saved are born again and you believe it? Or did you experience the change in your nature? And how did that happen. Do you have a testimony?

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi, @CharismaticLady,

The teaching that we are not under the law, are dead to it, and are delivered from it is qualified by the teaching that we are still governed by it from the inside (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4).

It does not condemn us from the outside, if we are born again (justified by faith).

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi, @CharismaticLady,

The teaching that we are not under the law, are dead to it, and are delivered from it is qualified by the teaching that we are still governed by it from the inside (Hebrews 8:8-10, hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4).

It does not condemn us from the outside, if we are born again (justified by faith).

No, the law written on our heart is not the Ten Commandments, but what the 10C were based on, but they, in themselves, could not make anyone righteous. The eternal law of God is what the laws of Jesus are based on and fulfill, making us righteous.

The eternal law of God is LOVE God with all your heart, soul and body, and LOVE your neighbor as yourself. In the Ten commandments you could hate and be unrighteous, just not let it get to murder and think you are righteous, but are far from it. You could lust and be unrighteous, but not let it get to adultery and pride yourself that you didn't break a commandment, and think you are righteous, but are far from it. So you could keep the Ten Commandments, but break the laws of the New Covenant. But those who keep the New Covenant laws, not only could never be guilty of breaking a commandment of the Old Covenant, but go all the way to righteousness.

The New Covenant commandments are 1 John 3:23-24

 

[CharismaticLady]

You say you've been on forums for years, and yet you still have no idea that the blood of Jesus, the blood atonement, is not a part time redemption, or a temporary solution for sin.
You can't even realize or believe John 3:16.
Maybe its time you get off forums and stop twisting verses to try to harm sincere believers.
Or, you can read my Threads, and stop living in the dark.
That's my advice.

And something else, Mrs deceiver....
You have accused me, more then once, here, of being a "gnostic".
So, i say you are a deceiver who can't prove this.. not ever.
Here is your opportunity to prove you have STUDIED my Threads and compared them to "gnostic" teaching, and are not just using some word you dont even understand or comprehend, (gnostic) regarding THAT theology, and just want to impugn me falsely, by associating me with with that word.

So, here is what you need to do.... asap.
Post the "gnostic" theology, regarding where it is exactly what i teach, YOU SAY, = YOU ACCUES ME.... so that we here on the Fourm can see that you have even any knowledge of their theology, having actually read any of it.
I say you've never read any, and can't even post any that can be compared to what i teach regarding "justification by faith", and "no sin in Christ" and the Position of the Born again, as "the righteousness of God IN CHRIST" having the "gift of Righteousness" as our ETERNAL SECURITY and Eternal Life, in Jesus, "in Christ".
I say you are a deceiver who can't even post ANY "gnostic" theology that even slightly resembles PAUL's Theology, as that is all i teach.
"Pauline Theology".
So, lets see you do it.
And dont dodge my Request, as you need to not just accuse, you need to offer some evidence of my so called "guilt". and "deception" based on "gnostic" teaching that you say i am all about.

Provide it, deceiver.




B

Gnostics like you do not believe that sins of the flesh are real sins anymore, that grace covers them.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Do you have a natural desire to sin, now that you are born again?
Better work on that, as you should not... unless you are trying to stop sinning by effort and will, and in that case, you will sin more and not be able to stop.
"the power of sin is the law".
The law has dominion over the flesh.. It runs it, it empowers it to sin.
You stop this by right believing.
There is no other way.

In reality, I have NO DESIRE TO SIN, now that I am born again. I've said that before, but you haven't show evidence that you understand me when I say it.