Bible verses most Christians refuse to believe

[CharismaticLady]

Here is what i claim as revealed in the New Testament, by Paul.

" As Jesus IS so are the born again IN this World". = Thats me.
"Christ has redeemed the Born Again from the curse of the Law". = Thats me.
"blessed is the born again, of whom God will NOT charge them with their sin". = Thats me.

A deceived Forum heretic once asked.....>"why does God not charge you with your sin anymore, like i think He should".
And Jesus responds, "its because i have been judged for them all and died for them ALL = already". (The Cross).
And then Jesus adds, "what sin OF YOURS do you think i have not already paid for with my Blood"?

The Heretic , now sweating, replies..."so, if im confessing sins that your Blood already paid for 2000 yrs ago, im really just not understanding anything about the Grace of God, or the BLOOD ATONEMENT, at all".

Jesus replies...>"Right". "finally you got something Right".

What i claim, Reader, is simply what God gave me thru the cross and the blood atonement as a FREE GIFT of Salvation.
He gave me "the righteousness of Christ". This is why im "In Christ".
So, Reader, if you think any sinning is happening when you are Literally the righteousness of Christ, (if you are born again,) then you have not even begun to understand "the gift of righteousness" or "Justification by faith", not do you understand that "you are not under the law, but are under GRACE".

And if you are a sincere Christian, and what i just told you seems strangely TRUE yet, difficult to HEAR, thats a good sign.
So, to you who want to know more about this Grace of God that is mostly hidden on Forums by heretics, then go and find out why Paul does not refer to your sin as sin, but refers to it as "works of the flesh" and names them. Galatians 5:19-21
Go and meditate on Hebrews 9:12. and Hebrews 13:9 and Titus 3:5 until God gives you LIGHT.
Then study Romans 3:21-28 until God gives you the LIGHT.

And if you really do take the time to do that ^^^^^^^^^^^^ little bible study i just gave you, then when you have studied all those go and read Philippians 1:6 and let that verse show you Who saved you and WHO keeps you saved.

That teaching you believe is why you are exactly who this post is for. Please read the verses and ask yourself if they describe you? If not, there is still time to be filled with the Holy Spirit and truly repent and acknowledge your weakness. If you mean it, Jesus will give you the gift of His own Spirit to free you from SIN, which made the law necessary in the first place. That is the only reason we are free from the law. SIN was the root cause of our separation from God. Jesus was manifest to TAKE AWAY our sin, and in Him there is no sin. IOW, we are no longer slaves to sin; we are free, and who the Son makes free is free indeed.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I don't get it.

Scripture is CLEAR, but I can understand some "confusion" regarding the "time-scale" referenced in the "rapture-debate". And I can even understand why some people believe that "day or hour" is twisted to include week, month, season, year, etc. And even when people believe the "seven and sixty-two" lie. We hear these lies from the commentators and from the pulpit and we unwittingly TRUST these liars.

But I haven't heard ANYONE misrepresent/twist/distort/contend with Lke 22:36, and yet when I present it, virtually EVERYONE REFUSES TO BELIEVE WHAT LUKE WROTE. They make excuses; misrepresent the circumstance of that evening; and insist that other Scriptures discount and dispute this Scripture:

Lke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.​

But if it wasn't for all those people with LOGS in their eyes, we'd freeze to death during winter. And there's so many LOGS, we have to open the windows from the HEAT ...
Bobby Jo

 

[marksman]

So, you are free from sin ...... (that sin) .....

Being free from sin and that sin are two different things.

 

[Joseph77]

Being free from sin and that sin are two different things.

The right hand and the left hand are two different hands.

 

[marksman]

The right hand and the left hand are two different hands.

I have to admit, that is very handy.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm wondering if there is anyone who does claim that they have reached a state of sinlessness, and if they would be willing to discuss such with me. I don't think that this view agrees with the Bible, and I'd love to explore the matter with someone who does, and who believes that they live without sin.

What do you mean it does not agree with the Bible? The OP is full of scriptures out of the BIBLE, that show it does agree, just ignored. But as the title says, you seem to be who this is to if what you've read doesn't agree with what you think the post is about.

What is interesting to me, and you are oblivious to it is, you believe sin is sin, period. So let's take one of the verses from the OP.

1 John 5:18
18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

According to this verse, and I'm taking it for granted you believe you are born of God, you do not sin at all. But if you do sin as you say, isn't that the opposite of someone born of God? How can you be both and be oblivious to the dichotomy? I, on the other hand, see that the previous verses 16-17 show two different types of sin, which you won't accept in the Word. Paul says, the wages of sin is death, but one of those is NOT unto death. And Matthew 6:14-15 shows how even though we commit them, they can be automatically cleansed if we meet the conditions through love. But this you won't accept, but it is the way that I believe you ARE born of God, even though by your belief that sin is sin, you haven't given yourself any way of escape, yet think you are saved. How?

You think my beliefs are too stringent, yet by your own belief, logically, no one can be saved because according to you everyone sins - and sin is sin and worthy of death.

 

[marks]

So what? Present tense and personal is just a teaching tool. If you have really examined the context, which you haven't, look at verse 9 in Romans 7. It is present tense and personal, but would make Paul over 1300 years old, and was even there before Moses received the law! And everything Paul talked about in Romans 7:14-23, he is free from in Romans 8:2.

Very logical. Brilliant! Not!

More than "a teaching tool", verb tense is key to the languange God teaches us with. It's how we know what God is saying.

Does the context require we overturn the clear meaning of Paul's words?

This part?

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

"When the commandment came", you would say this means, when the commandment came "to Isreal". You also proclaim I haven't examined the context. What purpose does that serve I wonder? And without any validity.

When the commandment came to Israel? Since it does actually use those words, what words does it use?

"I" was alive without the law once, but when the commandment cam, sin revived, and "I" died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, "I" found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived "me", and by it slew "me".

It looks to me that Paul is speaking entirely of his own personal experience. So then it would be referring to when the commandment came to him, not that he's over 1000 years old, or that he's writing as if he were the nation of Israel. I don't see anything in this passage to make me think he's meaning to say anything different that what the words say.

I further see no reason think that we should not understand Paul to be saying exactly what the words say later in the chapter.

Much love!

 

[marks]

To whom is the choice given of silence or speech?

All have that choice, you, me, everyone here.

Naturally!

 

[marks]

She posted scripture and instead of discussing what the verses meant, you resumed an apparently old attack from other threads on her person because you disagree with her.

Cutting to the chase. I wasn't off topic.

Should a person who is sinless answer your question just to satisfy your curiosity or to support your own lack of faith?[/QUOTE]
Who is sinless?

This has nothing to do with curiousity or a lack of faith, and I don't know why you would assume that's all there is to my interest in this topic.
There is a doctrine expressed that tends to tear at the faith of God's children, that being, if you aren't perfect, then you're not a Christian, not in Christ, it goes all the way down to "not even saved".

Now. I'm not saying we shouldn't look at ourselves, examine ourselves to see whether we be in the faith. So let's not take that fork.

The born again children of God are works in process, and we are being sanctified in God's way in His time, and it different for everybody. And it continues until our life in this world ends.

When you tell them, If you were really a Christian, really "in Christ", you wouldn't sin, or would only sins these sins, or whatever, then that person looks at the reality of their lives, unless they know better, they question their faith on the wrong criteria. And in my eyes that's not good.

Let us all have the faith in Christ to live right now without sin, and continue on that way until we are home with Him! Let it be so!!

But let's make sure we have a Biblical understanding of sin and sanctification. And what it means to be born again. And why Jesus is our Advocate.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Or perhaps some who have already overcome as Jesus overcame are also remaining silent as Jesus remained silent! What is God's will in this?

Perhaps anything I suppose. Maybe all the sinless ones have looked away for the moment. Of course, Jesus said that those who overcame as He did will sit with Him on His throne, so maybe they are all there.

God's will? I believe God delights in truth.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Why not ask rather, Who here is born of God?

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." I John 3:9

Between you and I, we will need to first define what "born again" is. I think we have very different ideas about that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

and you are oblivious to it is,

Am I?

Really?

You know we've discussed this a number of times.

Which sin is from faith?

 

[marks]

You think my beliefs are too stringent, yet by your own belief, logically, no one can be saved because according to you everyone sins - and sin is sin and worthy of death.

Are you even able to restate my beliefs? I wonder.

Your statement here doesn't represent my view even a little.

Much love!

 

[Joseph77]

Between you and I, we will need to first define what "born again" is. I think we have very different ideas about that.

An example of Bible verses Christians refuse to believe ?

 

[Joseph77]

There is a doctrine expressed that tends to tear at the faith of God's children, that being, if you aren't perfect, then you're not a Christian, not in Christ, it goes all the way down to "not even saved".

i.e. false doctrine. ?

Or close to this, rather to purify ourselves as written, because HE IS PURE ?

 

[CharismaticLady]

More than "a teaching tool", verb tense is key to the languange God teaches us with. It's how we know what God is saying.

Does the context require we overturn the clear meaning of Paul's words?

This part?

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

"When the commandment came", you would say this means, when the commandment came "to Isreal". You also proclaim I haven't examined the context. What purpose does that serve I wonder? And without any validity.

When the commandment came to Israel? Since it does actually use those words, what words does it use?

"I" was alive without the law once, but when the commandment cam, sin revived, and "I" died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, "I" found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived "me", and by it slew "me".

It looks to me that Paul is speaking entirely of his own personal experience. So then it would be referring to when the commandment came to him, not that he's over 1000 years old, or that he's writing as if he were the nation of Israel. I don't see anything in this passage to make me think he's meaning to say anything different that what the words say.

I further see no reason think that we should not understand Paul to be saying exactly what the words say later in the chapter.

Much love!

"I" is talking about "mankind"

 

[CharismaticLady]

Are you even able to restate my beliefs? I wonder.

Your statement here doesn't represent my view even a little.

Much love!

You have said, "sin is sin." You've also claimed that you still sin. Is that correct?

 

[amadeus]

All have that choice, you, me, everyone here.

Naturally!

Yes, we do but without being led by the Holy Spirit, we too often miss necessary turns or turn when we should have gone straight.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Yes, we do but without being led by the Holy Spirit, we too often miss necessary turns or turn when we should have gone straight.

Yep, -- like the "turns" in Scripture, which some refuse to obey to their own detriment like LUKE 22:36, which we apparently assume is not VALID until the Holy Spirit FIRST convicts us.

Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[amadeus]

Cutting to the chase. I wasn't off topic.

Should a person who is sinless answer your question just to satisfy your curiosity or to support your own lack of faith?

Who is sinless?[/quote]
Why do you need to know if anyone other than you is or is not sinless? Did God give you the job of monitoring everyone else and reporting the results back to Him?

Joh 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

What is that to thee?

It seems to me that you have either denied God's ability to overcome everything in a willing surrendered person... or you doubt that @CharismaticLady has done or is doing what she has already said. Do you doubt God? If you doubt the lady then you are effectively calling her a liar without nothing but your own lack of faith in her. Because you do not believe [lack faith?] you can be sinless while in your body of flesh or that anyone else can is a poor excuse to continue to press against her.

This has nothing to do with curiousity or a lack of faith, and I don't know why you would assume that's all there is to my interest in this topic.
There is a doctrine expressed that tends to tear at the faith of God's children, that being, if you aren't perfect, then you're not a Christian, not in Christ, it goes all the way down to "not even saved".

Now. I'm not saying we shouldn't look at ourselves, examine ourselves to see whether we be in the faith. So let's not take that fork.

The born again children of God are works in process, and we are being sanctified in God's way in His time, and it different for everybody. And it continues until our life in this world ends.

When you tell them, If you were really a Christian, really "in Christ", you wouldn't sin, or would only sins these sins, or whatever, then that person looks at the reality of their lives, unless they know better, they question their faith on the wrong criteria. And in my eyes that's not good.

Let us all have the faith in Christ to live right now without sin, and continue on that way until we are home with Him! Let it be so!!

But let's make sure we have a Biblical understanding of sin and sanctification. And what it means to be born again. And why Jesus is our Advocate.

Much love!

Nothing of curiosity or lack of faith?... Then why did you not take each verse she cited and explain by scripture why her conclusion/belief or faith was in error? To me she is closer to my own understanding of the verses than most others that I heard. The OP is regarding the verses cited rather than the accuracy of her testimony, isn't it?