Calculating the Rapture? 7 Factors to Consider

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Davy

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Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

The word affliction = tribulation.

Strong's # 2347
thlipsis, from 2346; pressure, ( Literally or figuratively); KJV—afflicted, anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble.

Tribulation like there never was since the beginning to time.

Now we come to the second tribulation, note it says after that tribulation.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

Mark 13:25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

This is the second tribulation, at the 7th trump at the true Christ's return, this is God's tribulation.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

If the dead are not risen ,then Christ is not ,and we both know that He has , also how can He bring them with Him if they are not already with Him ?
God's Word doesn't actually call the "day of the Lord" events another 'tribulation' though. Jesus only spoke of one tribulation for the end, the "great tribulation".

That "great tribulation" will be experienced two ways, one way for the wicked and deceived, and another way for Christ's elect. For the wicked and deceived, it will be a time of peace and joy for them, as they will be deceived thinking the false-Messiah is God having returned. But for Christ's elect, they will be hunted and persecuted by the beast. So for the wicked and deceived, their brand of tribulation will be about their deception to the wrong one, and their delayed punishment of God's Wrath at Jesus return after the great tribulation. But for Christ's elect, their tribulation will be during the time of the "great tribulation".
 

Truth7t7

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God's Word doesn't actually call the "day of the Lord" events another 'tribulation' though. Jesus only spoke of one tribulation for the end, the "great tribulation".

That "great tribulation" will be experienced two ways, one way for the wicked and deceived, and another way for Christ's elect. For the wicked and deceived, it will be a time of peace and joy for them, as they will be deceived thinking the false-Messiah is God having returned. But for Christ's elect, they will be hunted and persecuted by the beast. So for the wicked and deceived, their brand of tribulation will be about their deception to the wrong one, and their delayed punishment of God's Wrath at Jesus return after the great tribulation. But for Christ's elect, their tribulation will be during the time of the "great tribulation".
The Two Witnesses Will Dominate The Entire Tribulation, Something Many Disregard As Non-Existent

Try Reading Exodus And The Plagues Upon Pharaoh And Egypt, It's Going To Be A Complete Replay

God's Divine Protection, "Open Your Ears"

(Revelation) 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

God's Divine Protection During The Final Hour Of Earth's Temptation, Just Like The Passover In Egypt, "Open Your Ears"

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived


There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
 
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Ronald D Milam

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Why should anyone believe you over the 100's of others who have used newspaper exegesis to define the bible?
Sorry all for not replying for 2 days, but little buddy Bama (Norfolk Terrier who is 15 years old) had 104.4 temp and was shaking for 2 days so I have been busy.

This needs not be replied unto tbh, I understand Prophecy and was called unto Prophecy, when you get to heaven you will then say opps, I now understand those things were true, and I refused to take advantage of information I could have used. Remember a Prophet or even prophetic interpretation when given (both are gifts) are from God. So, me being given the interpretation of these Prophets words is a gift brother. QUESTION, do you think their Prophesies will all come true? Answer is YES I assume, so will not these "Prophesies" all make "Headline News"? Of course, so you trying to use that tidbit to discredit prophetic understandings is simply an untenable position, all prophetic understanding will one day be headline news, God makes no prophesies that will not come true, so of course they will all be news. So, in essence, this is a nonsensical statement brother.

The nine gifts distributed by the Holy Spirit listed here include: the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, the gift of faith, gifts of healing, miraculous powers, prophecy, discerning of spirits, speaking in different kinds of tongues, and interpretation of tongues.

TBH, the gifts of tongues is still around, but since anyone can learn a language online now, it has lost a little punch, back in those times when foreigners saw ordinary, unlearned Jewish men, speaking unto them in their language this was a very powerful move of God. God used it to to create Faith in those foreign men, because the Gentiles were the very people who were going to take the Gospel unto the whole world. But when I see a lot of this today I think a lot of it is just jibberish by people who are told you have to speak in tongues to have the holy spirit, which is not true of course, we all have different varied gifts of the spirit, sadly, far to many people think their calling is interpreting prophecy. Then when actually hearing a true man who has this gift, they can't hear it in full because they have tunnel vision from their ow ideas.

Thanks for pointing out my mote! Now go after your log! You write just like the thousands of other cult leader wannabees! Like so many others you come up with a unique reinterpretation of eschatological subjects and like them claim God gave it to you via special revelation! Let me repeat myself! Horse manure! Ifd that offends you , you need a bit thicker skin. And I am not angry in the least!
I don't think you get it, we have to take the log out of our eyes in order to reach those who have motes or maybe they have logs also, but the point is, we have to take on Jesus in order to not be petty unto others who have difficulties in life, who sin via their sin nature, as we all do, and you sir with your words even here are being petty. Jesus by the way still jumped down the Pharisees/Religious leaders throats for trying to teach wrong things, via their actions, not their understandings, he stated they knew the truth but the did not practice these truths, rarely did Jesus say they did not understand the bible, he was saying they did not know God in essence, because of how they lived. I do not know you, nor do you know me, so I would never say you are not Christ like or of God, that's a silly supposition from afar, and petty. I however ca an d do say you are not called unto Prophecy, I know this because I am called unto Prophecy. Now, you might be the greatest winner of souls in a 1000 mile radius. But it is apparent you are not called unto prophecy, me saying so is not a swipe at you, its a fact I can see with my eyes via your understandings. Now, if you want to get personal and petty, just remember, that is going to show who you are in the long run, it tells nothing about me because that is not my style, Jesus whist firm did, was not petty even with those he called out, neither will I be like that, I follow Christ, I took my log out over 37 years ago, do you even understand that becoming a Christian is taking out the log?

I think as a Christian you took the log out, of course, but you are slipping into bad habit's via petty anger. We are supposed to repent from anger before the sun goes down. That is not Christlike brother when we hold it. Just because I say I am called unto Prophecy and others who dabble in it or not, is not me being arrogant or untruthful, would we have 100s of ideas what Babylon is, what or who the 144,000 are, what the 7 Heads and 10 horns are etc. etc. if we didn't have everyone and their brother trying to interpret prophecy, when they are not called to do that? No, we wouldn't, how can God put forth His truths when we have men not called to prophecy putting forth THEIR IDEAS? When you get to heaven brother you will see in an instant, everything I laid out is factual. The proof is in the pudding my brother. As per offending, its not offending me I could care less, I never report anyone for anything on a message board I am pointing this out to you, why not do what Christ like men do, to self constrain is our nature, not using pompous words with zero meaning, and when you get to heaven and find out you were wrong, then that will be on you brother. We all see darkly now now, but some see clearer because Prophecy is their calling.

Yup! Have taught that for years! even decades now!
Great, that is my point on other prophesies people error on, like Matt. 24:29, IMMEDIALY AFTER the Tribulation of those days does not mean in the middle of the week at the 1260 Day of the Lord God's Wrath, some therefore see this and think God's Wrath or the DOTL is just ONE DAY and thus Jesus returns at thar point, which makes no sense, how can we have 7 Trumps & 7 Vials in one day? But others take it that Jesus only comes at the Second Coming, whilst Jesus never says that, we get a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture in Rev. 14:14. The Harvest Chapter. If you have one specific chapter for Harvests, and you give all three, and one is Pre Trib (it is) then you show the Jews (5 million and the code is 144,000) awaiting Jesus in Rev. 14, you show the Wicked Grapes being placed in the Wone-press of God's Wrath in you have to therefore have a FLASHBACK, and we see Jesus from upon a CLOUD Harvesting the Church, which is Pre Trib. But in order to understand this we have to understand how the book of Revelation was written. You have Church Age (2&3) we have Church see in Heaven with Jesus BREFORE the Seals are opened (Rev. 4&5). The Seals are opened in the presence of the Church JUST BEFORE the DOTL or God's Wrath, the 7th Seal ushers in God's Wrath. What confuses everyone is Jesus is Prophesying what happens in Rev. 8, 9 and 16, when the 7th Seal is finally removed from the scroll of Judgments. It also shows what happens during the Anti-Christs rule in chapters 12, 13, and 17, 18 is again what happens via Gods Wrath. Rev. 19 is the Wedding and the Return to the Marriage Supper, which is Armageddon. These are Parenthetical Chapters, the actual Wrath/Judgments are shown in Rev. 8, 9 and 16. Rev. 7 is therefore the Jews fleeing Judea unto Petra. Just before the Trumps (DOTL) start delivering God's 1260 days of Wrath. I am pointing out why I say this, I can use those chapters to show how the book of Revelation unfolds. Its not going to be a different timing than Zechariah brother. God himself wrote it in the GIANT CODBOOK for the ages.

CONTINUED......
 

Ronald D Milam

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Wrong, Jesus said when the times of the gentiles shall end and it isn't the rapture!

Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

That happens when the antichrist is defeated. He is the final segment of the fourth beast kingdom!
No brother, look I understand you are intelligent guy, and well read. But the Time of the Gentiles is not about Kingdoms, people confuse that with the Rev. 11 passage where John was told to Measure the Temple and the Altar and those that dwell therein. Do me a favor, read Romans chapters 9-11, that gives the full picture of what the Time of the Gentiles actually means. I will abbreviate what each chapter means below a wee bit, but first lets look at the Rev. 11 passage that confuses people and I think I can win you over by the mere texts. I will also explain what it actually means.

Rev. 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them (Jews) that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Now think brother, how can this be the Time of the Gentiles when this SPECIFICALLY SAY the Gentiles will be given power to tread the city for ONLY 42 Months !! See the obvious flaw here? People therefore think this is the Time of the Gentiles being referred unto when it is not. See my point?

Here is what this actually means, John is told to Measure the Temple the Altar AND those who worship therein, (Jews only). Meaning the Two-witnesses parameters are to get Jews to repent, just like Jesus was called unto the Jews only in his ministry on earth. NOTICE: do nit Measure the Outer Court, this means the Two-witnesses did nit return to get Gentiles to repent be to get Israel to repent, Malachi 4:5 says this specifically, Elijah will return JUST BEFORE the DOTL to get Israel to repent.

So, what is the Time of the Gentiles? Well, Paul tells us in three chapters in Romans 9-11. He telling the Romans nit to be haughty and high minded that the mantle of taking the Gospel unto the world is now theirs, he is explaining that the Potter choses His vessels, He has that right, he points out that God chose Jacob over Esau, not because He hated Esau, but because He loved Jacob more, He foreknew all things, the actual word means LOVED LESS, its the same word/meaning Jesus used when he said we should hate our parents, it just means we should love Jesus MORE than we love our parents or less than Jesus.

In Rom. 9 we get all of the above and Paul trying to explain to the Romans why He had now chosen a peoples He had never known (Gentiles) of Israel to take the Gospel unto the whole world. So, God has mercy on whom He will and hardens whom He will, He after all is the Potter who molds the vessel. Paul mentions how Isaiah said he will call a strange people. Paul then mentions why Israel stumbled, they sought it nit by Faith, but but works of the Law.

In Rom 10 Paul says his lost brothers (Israel) have a zeal for God, but not via KNOWLEDGE, they never understood the Faith over the Law. They thus deemed to work themselves towards God, instead of taking on His righteousness. He goes on to say they fell through DISOBEDIANCE. Now we get to Romans 11 the chapter that shows us what the Time of the Gentiles is referring unto. (Not Rev. 11)

In Rev. 11 Paul opens up, has God cast away Israel God forbid. (NOW THINK about all three chapters and put then together as one, and you can see what Paul is saying the TIME OF THE GENTILES is because of the CONTEXT and how Rom. 11 ends).

He says God has not cast away His people that He foreknew. When Elijah spoke against Israel Paul says Gid says I have saved myself 7000 men (7 x 10 x 10 x 10 just like 144,000 is a CODE fir All Israel who repents). Paul says therefore there is yet a remnant according to the Election of Grace in Israel. But Paul says God has given then a spirit of slumber and blinded eyes until this day that they may not see. Did they fall just to fall, Paul says God forbid, they fell to bring Salvation (Time of the Gentiles) unto the Gentiles, that they (us Gentiles) may provoke them unto jealousy, that they may come to the saving grace of Jesus one day. Paul then tells the Romans, boast not against the roots of the Olive Tree which you have been grafted into, he says they were only BROKEN OFF because of UNBELIEF, be not high-minded but fear, lest you forget this lesson and are cut off likewise, if you do not also continue in Faith.

Paul then says, they also will be grafted back in if they come unto God by FAITH ALONE. Then in this one verse here we see that the Fulness of the Gentiles CAN NOT HAPPEN during the time of Israel being conquered for 42 months (and it never meant that, it confused me fir 30 years also, but my gift from God is that now I can see these things CLEARLY BROTHER, its not me it a gift from God.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So, that is why I mentioned Zechariah 13:8-9 and 14:1-4 because that reveals WHEN Israel repents, THINK NOW, when do they repent? Zech. 13:8-9 shows the repent JUST BEFORE the DOTL arrives in Zech. 14:1 and Malachi 4:5 says Elijah will be sent JUST BEFORE the Great and Dreadful day of the Lord to turn Israel back unto God, so both AGREE, Israel repents JUST BEFORE the 1260 middle of the week, so this mandates that the Time of the Gentiles must end before the 1260 middle of the week event, which means it has zero to do with the Rev . 11 passage where the Gentiles trod Jerusalem under foot for 1260 days.

Now, rereading Rom. chapters 9-11 taking in all of the context, we can see that Paul is saying the Elder (Israel) will serve the Younger (Church) for a time, and God chose them to take His mantle of the Gospel unto the world over Israel, Paul says why question THE POTTER, He knows what He is doing. But in the very end he says ALL Israel will be saved (1/3 = Israel) and this can only happen when the Time of the Gentiles is over. So, adding it all up, since we know Israel repents JUST BEFORE God's Wrath falls then we know the Time of the Gentiles CAN NOT BE the 1260 days as seen in Rev. 11 that has always been a misdiagnoses by us. Thus the Time of the Gentiles is not about the Anti-Christ, thus its not even about a Beast conquering Israel since she has not been Beasted over since 70 AD, thus the Time of the Gentiles is really about the Mantle of TAKING the Gospel unto the Whole World, and that is made very clear by Paul in Romans chapters 9-11. Thus there has to be a Pre Trib Rapture, then the 70th week starts.
 

Ronald D Milam

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There is no battle at Armageddon or the valley of Jezreel. It is where the antichrist marshalls His forces to move to Bozrah/Petra to annihilate the Jews!

That is where Jesus returns, defeats the armies of the antichrist alone

Isaiah 63:1-3​

King James Version​

63 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
There is disagreement on what it means, some says its the Valley of Meggido, some say it means Jerusalem, it never says Bozrah/Petra to my knowledge. I thibk Jesus goes to Bozrah with stained colored garment, meaning he's already placed the Wicked into the Wine-press of God's Wrath (killed them). NOTICE, I am not as well studied on this, thus I make no claims of certainty on things I have nit been showed by the Spirit, I will look into it deeper. I did an Exegesis on Daniel 11 and 12 for this very reason and it has been very fruitful, showing me the False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest gone rogue just like Jason was under Antiochus and giving me the UNDERSTANDING of the 1335 and 1290, which are KEY to all End Time Prophecy. The 1335 is the Two-witnesses showing up 1335 days before the Second Coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS see in Dan. 11:36-45 and the 1290 is the False Prophet STOPPING Jesus Worship the the 5 Million Jews who repent just before the 1260 middle of the week and then placing an Image of the Beast (E.U. President) up in the Tempe. Israel will join the E.U. that is the Covenant/Agreement spoken of in Dan. 9:27.

Wrong again! All those verses do not mention Gods wrath even once.

But the opening of the sixth seal (which is a pre trib event) reveals the beginning of teh wrath of god which corresponds to the 70th week of Daniel. Though I cannot e dogmatic, I believe the trumpets are the first half and the bowls are the4 second half.
QUESTION? THINK NOW Brother.......Can God FORETELL about Wrath without it being Wrath? THINK, Joel does it in Joel 2:31 right? Jesus does the EXACT SAME THING via the 6th Seal, that is why Sea, #7 is over in Rev. 8, it OPENS the Judgment Scroll, the Scroll contains these Seven Trumpet Judgments. So, Seal number 6 is Jesus PROPHESYING what God's Wrath will bring just like Joel 2:31 did. THEN we see these things via Trumps 1-4. The Asteroid breaks apart thus FIRE FALLS FIRST, and burns the trees before the Impact. In Trumpet #2 we see THE IMPACT into the Sea. In Trumpet #3 we see the FALLOUT from the poisons whether that be a sulfur fallout like killed the Dinos or some sort of metal that brings a Nuclear like poison, it falls out over North and South America poisoning a 1/3 of the Fresh Waters in these two continents. The 1/3 = North and South America. The Pacific Ocean has 1/3 of the Waters on earth also, thus the 1/3 of the ships and sea creatures that die tell us where it hits.

In Rev. 18:4 we see God says "Come out of her (Babylon) My people(Israel), that ye receive not of her plagues. Well, Plagues on this world is God's Wrath. Rev. 18 is PROSE for the Plagues of Gid as prayed down by the Two-witnesses against this evil and wicked world. Both Rev. 18:8 and 18:10 mention JUDGMENT has having come. God's Judgment on a wicked peoples is His Wrath, why do you thin k He is judging Babylon (Whole World) ? Because His Wrath is FILLED UP.

Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

The Two-witnesses PRAY DOWN every plague that mankind receives, why do you think the whole world hates them so much? Its like Moses and his staff in Egypt. Thus I have always said they are Moses and Elijah, the Law Giver and the Spirit Man. We see Woe #1, followed by Woe #2 in Rev. 9 then we get this:

Rev. 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

So, the Wrath of God is PLAGUES my brother, the Plagues are put forth because of God's Wrath, of course its called a Plague, we already know why these Plagues are upon the whole world. It goes without saying every other verse that these Plagues are God's Wrath.

I See, you are Pre Trib, the 6th Seal can't be Pre Trib brother, think on these things, I have just been gifted its not of me. Just God's grace on me that shows me these things. Nothing happens unto the 1260 as per God's Wrath/Judgment. I will be glad to go over anything or any minutia with you, I have been short, sorry about that, my moms bedridden, I have to change her and my dog of 15 years has been very sickly, so I have not been getting much sleep, my diabetes sometimes gets me a little bothered, blood pressure goes up etc. I don't mind getting into my reasoning on all this stuff. Like I did with WHEN Israel repents, thus the Time of the Gentiles can not be the Anti-Christ.

God Bless
 

Ronald D Milam

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Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
This simply means AFTER the Tribulation of those days START the Sun and Moon will be darkened. All of this starts on ONE DAY, the day an Asteroid makes impact on the earth. The Sun and Moon go dark after Trumpet #2, as we see in Trumpet #4.

Rev. 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

The Day of the Lord starts A DAY in which He starts the progress of taking back the earth dominion from Satan and man whom Satan stole that right from. God gave Adam and Eve dominion over earth.

Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

So, you see it for what it is, but somehow the book of Revelation confuses people on the actual TIMELINE of all of these events.
 

Davy

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This simply means AFTER the Tribulation of those days START the Sun and Moon will be darkened. All of this starts on ONE DAY, the day an Asteroid makes impact on the earth. The Sun and Moon go dark after Trumpet #2, as we see in Trumpet #4.
NO, it does not... just mean Jesus was pointing only to the sun and moon being darkened.

It's amazing that you would claim to be a Christian and just CUTOFF Lord Jesus' Word like that!

Matt 24:29-30
29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
KJV


All those events in verse 29 are tied together in that SAME timing of "Immediately after the tribulation of those days".

The "And then" phrase ALSO TIES those events of verse 30 to that SAME time, "Immediately after the tribulation".
 
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Ronald D Milam

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NO, it does not... just mean Jesus was pointing only to the sun and moon being darkened.

It's amazing that you would claim to be a Christian and just CUTOFF Lord Jesus' Word like that!

Matt 24:29-30
29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
KJV


All those events in verse 29 are tied together in that SAME timing of "Immediately after the tribulation of those days".

The "And then" phrase ALSO TIES those events of verse 30 to that SAME time, "Immediately after the tribulation".
For starters, you are quoting a totally different passage that speaks about the Sun and Moon going dark which does happen to happen in the Middle of the Week (70th week) also. The passage you are quoting however ADDS in..........AND THEN............ starting in verse 30, its the same thing basically, except you just do not seem to understand the Sun and Moon goes dark immediately after the Troubles start, AND THEN.......Jesus will show up. TBH, I do not get how Christians can not get the basic understanding of these timelines down, but that is what happens when we can't get the easy concepts like a pre Trib Rapture, which isn't even hard to see, it can be no other time when one understands the End Times timelines (KEY which I keep harping about SMILE), most do not understand these timelines, but think they do. But it is what it is. I guess instead of getting frustrated or mildly irritated I should just start praying over people whose eyes can't see the truths on this.

So, IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days well WHAT DAYS? The 1260 days of Gods Wrath begins, IMMIDEALTLY AFTER that the Sun and Moon goes dark, AND THEN.........Jesus will show up, now allow me to show you the exact same thing, and how the passage JUMPS 3.5 years in one verse elsewhere in Zechariah.


Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

So, the above is Rev. 7, the Jews repent and Flee Judea at the 1290, they have 30 days before the soon to come Anti-Christ comes to power to GET OUT of Judea. Then in the very next verse (Zechariah 14:1-2) we see the DOTL happening just as we do in Rev. 8.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

{{{ The Above is the Day of the Lord (the Rev. 8 Asteroid/God's Wrath) which starts on day 1260, only NOW is the Anti-Christ allowed to go forth Conquering thus the Jews at the 1290 have 30 days to flee Judea and to get to the Petra/Bozrah area. Notice Israel REPENTS just before the DOTL in Zech. 13:8-9 just like in Rev. 7, it comes JUST BEFORE the Rev. 8 DOTL Trumpet Judgments !! But THEN we jump 3.5 years from Zechariah 14:1-2 to Zechariah 3-4 where Jesus shows up below: The exact same thing happens in Matt. 24:29-31, IMMEDIATLY AFTER the DOTL Asteroid Strikes that brings God's Wrath and the Sun and Moon go dark HERE...........Via Trump #4..........Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. This begins the DOTL. }}}

3 Then (Just like Matt. 24:30 THEN........) shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

We know Jesus NEVER LOSES, so Zechariah 14:2 is the Anti-Christ conquering Israel, THEN.....................3.5 years later in ONE VERSE we see Jesus returns, thus likewise, Jesus talks about the Day of the Lord and the Sun and Moon going Dark IMMEDIALY AFTER the Asteroid Strikes and THEN he returns 3.5 years later. What brings the Darkness? The Asteroid Impact of Apophis !! THEN...............Jesus will return, just like in Zechariah 14:3. Its the exact same lingo, its the exact same timing, we just have to understand the timings of it all brother. Remember, this was not written in English, ever hear Spanish soccer coaches or Italian players trying to speak in English, a lot of the words just do not come out right, we have to study hard, but whilst studying if we take the Hoy Spirits advice via Isaiah, here a little, there a little we will ALWAYS get the big picture, even through translations.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

We have to CROSS CHECK EVERYTHING against everything, that is how I get all of these understandings, I wrestle with God until I get Him to give me the answer, He delights in my refusal to stop plugging away, because God loves those who continually seek His face.

By reading all of the verses I can grasp the full picture brother. I love you guys, I am not here just to goad you, I am here to urge you on, to get the full picture.

God Bless.
 
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Ronald D Milam

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Israel is not fleeing any where nor protected during the Trumpets. They are all going to be judged and sentenced to their eternal destination standing before Jesus on His throne in Jerusalem.
Missed this, been busy with my sick dog. Think about this brother, how must we all come to God/Christ? By FAITH ALONE, in reality that is all Paul is trying to point out in Gal. 3, they thought they had to become "Jew Like" in order to make heaven because of some Jewish Christians who were peddling false doctrine, the were teaching the Galatians, hey you still have to keep the Laws just like us. Thus Paul lays into them, Oh Foolish Galatians who has bewitched you that coming to God in the faith you now want to live by the flesh (Law)?

That is what Paul is getting to when he says there is neither Jew nor Greek, Male nor Female, he IS NOT SAYING there are no Jews nor Greeks, no Males nor Females, he is saying ALL MANKIND, both Jew and Greek, both Male and Female can only come unto Christ ONE WAY (Thus we are all alike, we are all ONE in how we approach God) and that is by FAITH ALONE !! This was NEVER Paul saying the Jews and Greeks are now the same peoples.

Taking that que, why would you think that anyone cam be saved simply by Jesus returning? Israel MUST REPENT before the 70th week ends, those who do not are headed for hell, those who do are going to be protected by God in the Petra/Bozrah area for 1260 days unless God is a liar, and I do not think He is. We see 1/3 repent, live, and be protected, we see 2/3 DIE and thus they are judged already.

You want to see the 1/3 repenting BEFORE the Day of the Lord? Its EASY brother. Too many people simply run with doctrines from men, not from God thus they miss the obvious which the scriptures show.

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. (SEE THIS? 2/3 die, 1/3 Repent)

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

So, is Zechariah the Prophet lying? And LOOK when it happens, JUST BEFORE the DOTL arrives. (Next vs.)

Zech. 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Then in verse 3 we see Jesus shows up 3.5 years later to defeat Israel's enemies on Mt. Zion. Moving on:

Rev. 12:6 And the woman(Israel) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days(1260 days). 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

WE SEE THE SAME TIMING in Dan. 12 Below:

Dan. 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered,(When are Israel saved, when Jesus SHOWS UP are BEFORE like Daniel says? Just BEFORE the 1260) every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep(Daniel says WE SLEEP not go straight to heaven) in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Dan. 12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen,(preincarnate Jesus) which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Jesus says that from the time the holy peoples (Israel) are conquered until ALL THESE WONDERS END, there will be 1260 days, well we now know Jesus ends these things via the Second Coming, Daniel did not know that. So, everything you stated above is just not factual brother, you somehow miss all of these relevant scriptures and just have pseudo facts.

They are all going to be judged and sentenced to their eternal destination standing before Jesus on His throne in Jerusalem
We are all judged when we receive Christ Jesus, God looks at Jesus' blood, you are speaking about those who go through the Tribulation being judged after Jesus returns, but that, IMHO, is a different Judgment, in Heaven the Bride marries the Lamb via a pre trib rapture, of course there are DEGREES of Judgment, some will live in greater mansions, some are given more because they produced more results on earth, that will be the only Judgment those in Christ receive, we all make heaven via Jesus' blood alone, both murders like Paul and Peter a non murderer are Justified by Faith in Jesus alone, the Judgments are simply Jesus rewarding the people, just like some win the MVP trophy, some the Heisman trophy etc. etc.

The 144k are Jesus' disciples on earth, and they are protected.
Not one place in the bible says this, it even says they need PROTECTION !! All of these men's traditions comes from men not understanding the book of Revelation. In spite of me hearing 1000 times these are Super Evangelical Preachers no where in the bible actually says that. Go find it anywhere, I will eat my glasses, SMILE. God even says HOLD UP the Four Winds (Judgment on earth) until I have SEALED the 144,000 in their heads, meaning until they repent and get the exact same Seal we all have as Christians !! He says HURT NOT the Earth, Sea nor Trees until this happens, then as the 7th Seal is opened we see God's Wrath falls and what do the Four Trumps do ? They HURT the Earth, Sea and Trees, its obvious this is God protecting Israel, the 144,000 is a CODE just like 7000 is a CODE, just like Babylon is a CODE just like The Woman in Revelation chapter 12 is a CODE, just like the 7 Candles are a CODE, and the 7 Spirits are a CODE, just like the Harlot is CODE for All False Religion of all time, etc. etc.

So, you get that God uses 10 as in 10 Virgin Brides as a STAND IN for 2 Billion Christians in modern Christendom, but you can't grasp that God can do the same thing with Israel in various ways, as a matter of fact God has to be a liar if 144,000 and 7000 are not CODES because Zechariah 13:8-9 says that 1/3 of Israel will repent, so that is 3.5-5 million Jews who repent, not 144,000. Let me give you the code for the 1000th time. You understand that 10 means the COMPLETE BRIDE which are both male and female but you can't get this Below:

10 = Completion 12 = Fulness 7 = Divine Completion, 6 = man, so this should be easy.

1.) 10 Virgin Brides = the Complete Church or 2 Billion people on earth now, only half make the Rapture.

2.) 7 x 10 x 10 x 10 (Divine Completion x Completion) = 7000 or ALL Israel who repents, or as God says I have saved myself 7000 men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.

3.) 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 (Fulness x Completion) = 144,000 or ALL Israel who repents.

4.) Zech. 13:8-9 we see 1/3 of Israel repents whilst 2/3 refuses to do so and die. This = 3.5-5 million Jews.

So, how can the 1/3, the 7000 and the 144,000 all be correct? Which keeps God from being a liar, which He can not be !! Lets see the 1/3 is a SPECIFIC QUANTITY isn't it? It can only be 1/3 of the Jews living in these end times. But with the 7000 being a CODE and with the 144,000 being a CODE, all three can be truthful & correct.

Notice in Rev. 14:6 an Angel is given the task of Preaching the Gospel unto the Whole World, because the Church is Raptured Pre Trib and the 144,000 are 3.5-5 million Jews being protected in the Petra/Bozrah area. You simply can not let go of things you were taught by other men, I was taught the exact same thing, unlike the Pharisees of old, I refuse to accept men's traditions as facts if the bible does not agree with those understandings.

FINISH LATER, your questions always pull out long responses from me............
 
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Davy

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For starters, you are quoting a totally different passage that speaks about the Sun and Moon going dark which does happen to happen in the Middle of the Week (70th week) also.
The passage you tried... to push back to the 4th trumpet in question was Mark 13:19-24. That is error. And that Mark 13 passage is the same Message recorded in the Matthew 24:21-32 passage. The difference was Apostle Mark recorded what he heard Jesus say while with Him upon the Mount of Olives, and Matthew recorded his version what he heard Jesus say then also.

And in that Mark 13:24-26 passage, it is very CLEAR that the sun and moon being darkened is AFTER the tribulation Jesus warned in that Chapter...

Mark 13:24-26
24
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
KJV

Tied with that same AFTER the tribulation timing, is Jesus' future return, which means the END of this present world on the "day of the Lord"!


Thus you are listening to a bunch of doctrines from men, and NOT staying in The Scriptures with that at all.
 
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The Light

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The passage you tried... to push back to the 4th trumpet in question was Mark 13:19-24. That is error. And that Mark 13 passage is the same Message recorded in the Matthew 24:21-32 passage. The difference was Apostle Mark recorded what he heard Jesus say while with Him upon the Mount of Olives, and Matthew recorded his version what he heard Jesus say then also.

And in that Mark 13:24-26 passage, it is very CLEAR that the sun and moon being darkened is AFTER the tribulation Jesus warned in that Chapter...

Mark 13:24-26
24
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
KJV

Tied with that same AFTER the tribulation timing, is Jesus' future return, which means the END of this present world on the "day of the Lord"!


Thus you are listening to a bunch of doctrines from men, and NOT staying in The Scriptures with that at all.
Jesus returns at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. It is the end of the age. The tribulation is over. THEN THE WRATH OF GOD BEGINS. Jesus remains in the clouds at the 6th seal and takes believers to heaven for the marriage supper. Then He returns with the armies of heaven and sets His feet on the mount of Olives.
 

Ronald D Milam

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The passage you tried... to push back to the 4th trumpet in question was Mark 13:19-24. That is error. And that Mark 13 passage is the same Message recorded in the Matthew 24:21-32 passage.
{{{ Not part of this first ANSWER, but I confused my response to Luke 21 to Mark 13:13-19 below in places, I will not change it because the analysis is still correct, but you never cited verss13-19 only verse 19, which still doesn't match with Matt. 24:29-31, other verses in Mark (verse 25-27) do and I show that, but I am acknowledging I misquoted you below, but the analysis holds up so I will not try to erase it. }}}

ANSWERS TO ABOVE REPLY IS BELOW:


They are indeed the same, but if one reads the full passage in Mark 13 to the very end, which I will post below to show why I says this, NOTICE in my post I say they are the same, but you only posted Mark 13:13-19 in your #242 post. And thus that is mostly JUST BEFORE the DOTL, most do not understand the AoD happens 30 days BEFORE those troubles begin at the 1260.

Mark 13:13 And ye (12 Disciples) shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (to the end of ones life, DO NOT BECOME like Judas)

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation(1290 which is 30 days before the 1260 Beast conquering Jerusalem), spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, [let him that readeth understand,] then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: {{{ QUESTION: Why does anyone think an ALL KNOWING God would not give Israel a heads up BEFORE the Anti-Christ actually conquers them to become the Beast AND why would the Beast then just allow them to flee when his goal is to kill every Jew? Firstly, the Beast would never allow them to leave after conquering Israel, and secondly God would give the Jews who repent a heads up BEFORE they get conquered, and that is why the AoD is the 1290, which happens 30 days before the 1260, and thus the 1290 is the False Prophet, a Jewish High Priest in league with the E.U. President, by this time Israel will be in the European Union, that is the AGREEMENT they enter into in Dan. 9:27 !! BANK IT. }}}

15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. {{{ This is all BEFORE the DOTL, this is the flight of the Jews who repent, from the 1290 which is 30 days before the 1260 conquering by the Beast. Only in VERSE 19 do we see the beginning of THOSE TROUBLES, that is why I differentiated the Matt. 24:29-31 verses from these verses you cited in Mark. 13 in your #242 post, yes ONE VERSE finally sees the tribulation start, but it has nothing do to with how it ends as seen in Matt. 24:29-31. }}}

Mark 13:19
For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Only in this one verse does the tribulation START via Mark 13. BELOW is the continuation of the 70th week that matches Matt. 24:29-31. Below we see the SAME THING in Mark:

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days(which means the troubles will last 1260 days, God's ORIGINAL PLAN), no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's (Jews who repent) sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders(Just like Matt. 24:24), to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, {{{ Not AFTER the tribulation is over when Jesus comes but AFTER it begins via the Apophis Asteroid that starts the Wrath of God, and at that exact same time God ALLOWS the Anti-Christ to go forth conquering, that is why he says BEWARE of false Christs and false prophets !! AFTER this tribulation starts, we see the Sun and Moon grow darker, WHY? Because 1/3 of the worlds trees burn, which will burn many, many houses, this smoke will get into the Jet stream and spread across the whole world dimming the suns light by a process called filtration !! Turn a light on in any room, set a fire in a 55 gallon drum, look back in in 15 minutes and that light will be much dimmed by the smoke !! It is simple stuff tbh. }}}

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall,(Apophis hits see Rev. 8) and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. {{{ Satan and his Demons are cast out of Heaven, for 1260 days. }}}

26 And then (Just like in Matt. 24:30 AND THEN.....Jesus comes AFTER all of this, he then ENDS the tribulation of those days by SHORTENING the Anti-Christs lifespan and Rule to 1260 days, else he would have kept on ruling right? of course) shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds(From all the earth), from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. {{{ But alas, not only from Earth, but the Elect from Heaven is also Gathered, meaning the Pre Trib Raptured Church returns with Jesus from Heaven at this time, just as Rev. 19 says we will do. }}}

So, the original post, (#242) was not even the Tribulation per se, it was the flight of the Jews from Judea, yes ONE VERSE started the tribulation period (Mark. 13:19) but it did not match with Matt. 24:29-31 in full. Only when we add in Mark 13:20-27 does it give us the exact same story via the end time Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

So, those verses were not me trying to push anything back to Trump 4, they mostly happen BEFORE Trump #4, but verse 19 is in the tribulation, thus it is started by Trump #s 1, 2, 3 and 4 because they are all ONE EVENT, an Asteroid Impacting into the Sea (Pacific Ocean).

CONTINUED...........
 
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Ronald D Milam

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That is error. And that Mark 13 passage is the same Message recorded in the Matthew 24:21-32 passage.
I am correct that Matt. 24:29-31 comes to pass via the Trumpet Judgments, as does Mark 13:19-27. I Notice, now you are saying my reply was about Mark 13:19-24, the same thing applies, verses 25-27 matches Matt. 24:29-31. Yes, it is close to the same, but it is not the same, only Matt. 24:29-31 and Mark 13:25-27 matches up exactly, that is my point. Matt. 24:29 is about the Day of the Lord (Asteroid strike) which comes AFTER the Trouble starts via the violent asteroid impact, because it will take some time for the Sun and Moon to be dimmed, the fires have to burn a few weeks, then the smoke gets up in the Jetstream, then it travels around the world to dim the sun and moons light, AFTER the tribulation of those days [START]. You know what tells you that you have perceived this wrong brother? THEN.....in both passages, WATCH how the word THEN changes everything.

Matt. 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days(So, what could Jesus say here? Immediately after an Asteroid makes Impact the Sun & Moon will go dark, that would be Too Much Info for the World) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Satan is cast to earth WHEN? at the 1260 WE KNOW THIS from reading Rev. 12 AND Dan. 12, it can be no other time. This is the Middle of the week)

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven {AND THEN Jesus returns, AFTER the Middle of the Week Troubles which last for 1260 days} and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

SAME THING HAPPENS HERE.....

Zech. 14:1
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

{{{ Now we jump 3.5 years with THEN..........here also. }}}

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

The THEN in Zech. 14:3 is also 1260 days AFTER Zech. 14:2 where Israel is conquered by the A.C. !!

So, its not an error, it is not quite the same passage per se, but as I say, the exact same things unfold if we read both Matt. 24 and Mark 13 in full, Jesus returns and that ENDS the 1260 days, read Dan. 12, Jesus who was the Man in Linen says the exact same thing, that after the holy peoples (Israel) are conquered there will be 1260 days until ALL THESE WONDERS (Dan. 11:36-45, the Anti-Christ) END. So, when does the Tribulation or greatest ever troubles start? In the middle of the 70th week, thus AFTER the tribulation of those days {BEGINS) we see the Sun and Moon go dark, what good would it be if the Sun and Moon went dark AFTER Jesus returned? MAKES ZERO SENSE !!! You take the "AFTER the Tribulation" and for some reason thinks it means after it ends, but we see the Sun & Moon go dark DURING the 70th week, not AFTER the 70th week, but yet you assume this is Jesus returning, IT IS NOT..........the THEN............is when Jesus returns, of course that ends the troubles for Israel after 1260 days. If you guys would follow the instruction of Isaiah on how to interpret the scriptures you would not make these mistakes by placing too much emphasis on SINGLE VERSES. Isaiah says "Line upon Line and Precept upon Precept, Here a little, There a little" When we follow this directive, we are never ever confused by SINGLE VERSES.

The difference was Apostle Mark recorded what he heard Jesus say while with Him upon the Mount of Olives, and Matthew recorded his version what he heard Jesus say then also.
There is no difference per se, I was pointing out that without Mark 13:25-27 it can not be the same thing because that is where we get the THEN........Or Jesus' Second Coming, which ENDS the Troubles.

And in that Mark 13:24-26 passage, it is very CLEAR that the sun and moon being darkened is AFTER the tribulation Jesus warned in that Chapter...
No sir that is just you not using all the available passages, which I did use, to show what it means. Now if you want to go over Zech. 14:1-4, and Dan. 12:1-7 with me line by line, I will do so, my job is not to cast aspersions on anyone's belief but to try and teach men the truths of God. The Lord has rebuked me for not having patience. (Guilty)

Tied with that same AFTER the tribulation timing, is Jesus' future return, which means the END of this present world on the "day of the Lord"!
You miss the THEN............Afterwards just like Zech. 14:2 is 3.5 years before Zech. 14:3.

Thus you are listening to a bunch of doctrines from men, and NOT staying in The Scriptures with that at all.
Like I stated brother, I will go over each verse that proves the TIMING with you. If I only understand one thing in all of life it is the TIMING of End Time Events.

God Bless.
 
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Davy

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ANSWERS BELOW:


They are indeed the same, but if one reads the full passage in Mark 13 to the very end, which I will post below to show why I says this, NOTICE in my post I say they are the same, but you only posted Mark 13:13-19 in your #242 post.
You are obviously confused. Mark 13, Matthew 24, and Luke 21, all involve Christ's Olivet discourse of Signs of the End He was giving while with His disciples upon the Mount of Olives. If I quote from Matthew 24 or Mark 13 about the 'same' subject Jesus gave, it is irrelevant to which version I quote, UNLESS there is additional information in one version the other one does not have. In the case of my post, with what I quoted, there is no additional info in one version compared with the other. They are both saying the same thing.

And thus that is mostly JUST BEFORE the DOTL, most do nit understand the AoD happens 30 days BEFORE those troubles begin at the 1260.
The placing of the "abomination of desolation" per Daniel 9:27 happens in the middle of the symbolic "one week" mentioned there. Per the Daniel 9 seventy weeks prophecy, that symbolic "one week" equals a period of 7 years. So what is the middle of a 7 year period? It is 1260 days, exactly. That is when the Scripture declares the AOD is placed, right AFTER the first 1260 day period, and NOT before.

Your reading of Dan.12:11-12 about the 30 days idea is per a doctrine of men, and is not in keeping with the timings given in that Daniel 12 Chapter. The 1290 days is about the time AFTER the latter 1260 days. It is pointing to after Christ's future return. And then the blessing of those who reach the 1335 days is about those who will serve Christ at His table with the new sanctuary built after His future return, per Ezekiel 40 thru 47.
 

Davy

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I am correct that Matt. 24:29-31 comes to pass via the Trumpet Judgments, as does Mark 13:19-27.
No, and what so-called "Trumpet Judgments"? You are obviously confused. The Vials are when God's wrath upon the beast and the wicked are poured out.

The time of Christ's Olivet discourse Signs of the End follow the Seals of Revelation 6. The only Sign that will serve as a Judgment upon the beast and his followers is the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial timing. It is the 6th Seal and 7th Vial that specifically is about God's cup of Wrath poured out on the wicked on the last day of this world.

The events Jesus gave in Matthew 24 & Mark 13 cover from the time just prior to the "great tribulation", and then the "great tribulation" that begins with the AOD setup, and then events that cover the tribulation all the way up to the day of Christ's future return and gathering of His saints immediately after that tribulation. The Trumpet timing equivalent to the tribulation timing is the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe. Christ comes on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe.

I Notice, now you are saying my reply was about Mark 13:19-24, the same thing applies, verses 25-27 matches Matt. 24:29-31. Yes, it is close to the same, but nit the same, only Matt. 24:29-31 and Mark 13:25-27 matches up exactly, that is my point.
Well no... your claim that Mark 13:25-27 matches your 4th Trumpet claim does NOT match.

Mark 13:25-27 matches the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe when Jesus comes. So why are you denying the Mark 13:26 verse which shows Jesus coming in the clouds?

I agree that Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 are both the same timing and events. But both of those Chapters have other direct parallels also. They're just two different versions of Jesus' declarations while on the Mount of Olives. And just like the Four Gospels, each one may contain small bits between each other that differs. For example, the gathering origin point is different between the Matthew 24:31 verse and the Mark 13:27 verse. One version is about the asleep saints Jesus brings with Him when He comes in the clouds, and the other version is about the saints still alive on earth being gathered. Apostle Paul followed the same gathering distinctions in 1 Thessalonians 4.

Matt. 24:29 is about the Day of the Lord (Asteroid strike which comes AFTER the Trouble starts via the violent asteroid impact, because it will take some tine for the Sun and Moon to be dimmed, the fires have to burn a few weeks, then the smoke gets up in the Jetstream, then it travels around the world to dim the sun and moon light, AFTER the tribulation of those days [START]. You know what tells you that you have perceived this wrong brother? THEN.....in both passages, WATCH how the word THEN changes everything.
When Lord Jesus died on His cross, the daytime turned dark then also, but it wasn't because of an asteroid. So I think you go too far in your speculation. In the Books of God's prophets, especially Isaiah, we are shown on that "day of the Lord" God's destruction of this present world will be at an 'instant'. What you are describing is like idea out of a National Geographic magazine which is often passed off as real science when it is not (yes I tend to challenge the status quo).

I don't have it wrong, as YOU say. I am following the Scripture as written.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days,
after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

"And then" is a simple conjunction. It means the events of that 27th verse happens AT THE SAME TIME those previous 24 thru 26 verses happen. You can try to go against that timing, but you'll look foolish.

SAME THING HAPPENS HERE.....

Zech. 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

The THEN in Zech. 14:3 is also 1260 days AFTER Zech. 14:2 where Israel is conquered by the A.C. !!
Nah... you are ADDING to the Scripture.

Those Zechariah 14:1 thru 5 events occur within the SAME timeframe. Verse 1 is merely giving a summary of what will happen.

The "day of the Lord" timing IS... the LAST DAY of this present world, and is the 'day' when Jesus comes in the cloud to gather His faithful Church. And that happens IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION. It is what actually ENDS... the "great tribulation".

The gathering of the nations to surround Jerusalem is NOT the "day of the Lord" time. It is just PRIOR to the "day of the Lord" events. We are given the SAME order of events in Revelation 16...

Rev 16:15-17
15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And
He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And
the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV

Both Apostles Paul and Peter taught that the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night". Lord Jesus proclaiming that He comes "as a thief" is that SAME timing of the "day of the Lord". That is a description of that "day of the Lord" getting ready to happen. Then He describes the gathering of the nations against Jerusalem with that Armageddon idea. That gathering event on the last day is also declared in Zephaniah 3:8 which links the time of God's consuming fire on that SAME "day of the Lord". Then on the 7th Vial, God's cup of Wrath upon those armies, and the wicked, is poured out on the "day of the Lord".

Even Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3:10 declared God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth on that "day of the Lord" that he also said comes "as a thief in the night".

Thus the "day of the Lord" destruction will be a SURPRISE EVENT (especially upon the wicked), not one taking days upon days to cleanse the surface of this earth. Apostle Paul even referred to it with the idea of the 'change' at the "twinkling of an eye", and also as a "sudden destruction" per 1 Thess.5.
 

ewq1938

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Jesus returns at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. It is the end of the age. The tribulation is over.


None of that is right. Jesus returns at the 7thn trump, not the 6th seal. The 6th seal only describes the 7th trump return.

The trib doesn't even start until the 6th trump. By then all the seals were opened long ago and the first 5 trumps have sounded. The 6th trump is the GT, and the 7th is the second coming which is when the wrath of God begins, Rev 11.
 

Ronald D Milam

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You are obviously confused. Mark 13, Matthew 24, and Luke 21, all involve Christ's Olivet discourse of Signs of the End He was giving while with His disciples upon the Mount of Olives. If I quote from Matthew 24 or Mark 13 about the 'same' subject Jesus gave, it is irrelevant to which version I quote, UNLESS there is additional information in one version the other one does not have. In the case of my post, with what I quoted, there is no additional info in one version compared with the other. They are both saying the same thing.
That is true, BUT.............there are different segments via each. For instance Matt. 24 speaks about the 70th week in some verses, about the Church Age in some verses and about 70 AD in some verses. So, I assume they all speak about these same three things since they all refer to Jesus' Olivet Discourse. In Matt. 24:4-6 we see the 70 AD verses, in verses 7-14 we see the Church Age verses even though it is mainly telling the Disciples how to survive, the Church Age verses is to instill in them what has to come before the end comes. Thus as Jesus says in verses 4-6 the End (70th week) is by and by or later on. As 14 shows that end only comes after the Churches mission is complete. Then we get the AoD and Israel fleeing Judea just before the Wrath of God hits in verses 15-20, then in verses 21-31 we get the Great Tribulation/Jacobs Troubles and the Return of Jesus to end those troubles. So, its not all the same timings brother, that's my point, this different versions in the different Gospels have to be MATCHED UP TOGETHER to get a proper contextual understanding. You can't speak about a portion of Mark that is talking about the AoD and fleeing as being the same as Matt. 24:29-31, its not, one happens at the 1290, 30 days BEFORE those troubles start, the other is about the Sun and Moon which becomes Darkened 30 days later, then verse 31 is about Jesus' return 1260 days after the Sun and Moon troubles start via the Asteroid Impact (DOTL) events kick off. So, like I stated, I agree, in total they all say the same thing, but each verse has different portions in time they are speaking about. That is why Matt. 24 speaks about false christs in vs. 5 (70 AD) and vs. 11 speaks about false prophets (the Disciples had to overcome those Greek and Romans who were angry their gods were being forsaken because of the Gospel of Jesus Christ !! Thus those false prophets had the Disciples killed !! Then in verse 24 we see THE Anti-Christ and THE False Prophet of the 70th week being spoken about. So, in each instance it represented a DIFFERENT TIME-FRAME !!

CONTINED..........
 

Ronald D Milam

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The placing of the "abomination of desolation" per Daniel 9:27 happens in the middle of the symbolic "one week" mentioned there.
No it doesn't if you are saying at the 1290, yes its in the MIDST of the week but not in the exact middle of the week, we know this by reading Daniel 12 brother. So, the Angel asks this question in verse 6, "How long until all these wonders end?" (The Daniel 11:36-45 WONDERS Daniel had just been shown). And Jesus (Man in Linen) answers with 1260 days, because the Anti-Christ of Dan. 11:36-45 rules for 1260 days, thus we now know he meant that the Messiah (himself) would show up to end the Anti-Christs rein after he had ruled for 1260 days. (NOW THE KEY.......to all end time understandings) Why do we think that Daniel asks the EXACT SAME QUESTION as the Angel did in verse 8, but the answer is not using the exact same formula ? Via Jesus' Second Coming ENDING THESE WONDERS !! Watch the question by Daniel:

Dan. 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? {{{ See it now? }}} 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, AND the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (TILL THESE WONDERS END, just like above where the Angels asks the same question in vs. 6 and Jesus answers in vs. 7 )

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.(Also just like the 1260 and 1290, this is a BLESSING that happens 1335 days before ALL THESE WONDERS END via the Second Coming of Jesus. That Blessing is the Two-witnesses turning 3.5-5 million Jewish peoples back unto God just as Zech. 13:8-9 and Malachi 4:5-6 tells us will happen.

So, the 1290 happens 30 days before the 1260 Middle of the week, and when God showed me this I also doubted (LOL I keed not), because the Lord tells us to try the spirits to see if they be of God !! I did, I was astonished that everything fit, I really was tbh !! So, how did I try the spirits ? Via the TIMINGS of course. Could this possibly fit the TIMELINES ? (always key) So, if the 1335 is the Two-witnesses their 1260 day Ministry on earth as Ordained by God must start BEFORE the Beasts 1260 day rule because he dies when Jesus shows up......GULP, it fit, the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe, the Beast dies later on at the 7th Vial Wow I said, that FITS !! That is BONKERS I thought to myself !! So, not only do the Two-witnesses arrive before the Anti-Christ conquers Israel/Jerusalem at the 1260 it is MANDATED they have to, and we know that Malachi 4:5 says Elijah is sent back BEFORE the DOTL (1260 event). So, they are the 1335 Blessing. Now what about the AoD I thought, I always assumed this MUST BE the Anti-Christ, but is it? WATCH THIS CLOSELY brother. Who does Rev. 13 say places the Image or gets the people to make an Image of the Beast ? The False Prophet (2nd Beast from the earth/Israel, those from the Sea is always a Gentile) places the image of the Beast, he is over Religion. Now reading Dan. 9:27 very closely, it says the Beast CAUSES the Sacrifice to be stopped, he first makes an Agreement (Israel joins the E.U.) for 7 years, he's only the Beast for 3.5 years, BUT.......the Agreement (Israel joining the E.U.) gives him political sway, and when the Two-witnesses show up and gets 3.5-5 million Jews to repent at the 1335, which is 45 days before the 1290 and 75 days before the 1260, then those Jews of course go to their temple to praise and worship their God and Messiah Jesus, this Jewish High Priest will become incensed, he will then FORBID Jesus Worship (he takes away THE Sacrifice who is Jesus Christ, of course not some evil meat sacrifice which in and of itself is a DEFILEMENT seeing as how God punished Israel for not accepting Jesus, the express image of God) This Jewish High Priest False Prophet will then place an IMAGE of the E.U. President in the temple to rub it in their faces. Like Jason under Antiochus.

Jason (real name Yeshua) the High Priest under Antiochus did the exact same thing, he welcomed Antiochus into the temple of God to offer a sacrifice on the Altar of God unto Zeus, he then MANDATED that all Jews become Hellenized, leading unto the Maccabean Revolt, see how the END TIMES must repeat this? A Greek born man who leads the E.U. (Fourth Beasts Revived E.U. Remnant) as their President, and he has a Jewish High Priest False Prophet like unto Jason !! But this False Prophet is the one we see at the 1290 event, the Anti-Christ is not allowed to go forth conquering for 30 days yet, at the 1260 event. I also tried this, and here is when it hit me, of course God allowing the Anti-Christ to conquer Israel before giving them a sign to flee never made any sense to me, BUT.......the False Prophet doing this at the 1290 event made sense, that gives the Jews 30 days to flee Judea unto the Petra/Bozrah area, Eureka I thought !! It fits reality there also.

Now, I wondered unto myself, why didn't God just reveal who the False Prophet was unto Daniel, like He did John in 90 AD ? I ask all the questions brother, that is how I get the answers. Of course God could not tell Daniel a coming False Prophet High Priest would betray Israel, else they would have killed every other High Priest thinking this is the one !! God could tell John about a coming False Prophet in 90 AD because Jerusalem & Israel had already been sacked by that time. Remember how King Herod via the scriptures tried to kill baby Jesus? That is why Daniel only got the 1290 inference. Which is why many think it is the Anti-Christ, but it is not him, it will be his right hand man. Satan loves taking the things that are supposed to be of God and defiling them.

Per the Daniel 9 seventy weeks prophecy, that symbolic "one week" equals a period of 7 years. So what is the middle of a 7 year period? It is 1260 days, exactly. That is when the Scripture declares the AOD is placed, right AFTER the first 1260 day period, and NOT before.
I agree it is one week or 7 years, the midst is the midst and the middle is the exact middle, where you get offtracked is thinking (I assume like many others) the 1290 comes after the 1260, it doesn't nor can it, I explained why above, this is deep stuff, if one grasps it they will understand all end time prophecy, the 1260, 1290 and 1335, or should I say the 1335, the 1290 and the 1260 are the KEY to understanding all End Time Prophecy !! Amen.

Your reading of Dan.12:11-12 about the 30 days idea is per a doctrine of men, and is not in keeping with the timings given in that Daniel 12 Chapter. The 1290 days is about the time AFTER the latter 1260 days. It is pointing to after Christ's future return. And then the blessing of those who reach the 1335 days is about those who will serve Christ at His table with the new sanctuary built after His future return, per Ezekiel 40 thru 47.

No, it is the only thing that fits, and it answers the exact same question per Daniel in the exact same way in which the angel asked the question. This is my calling, so of course I am going to be given things those not called unto Prophecy can not see, IF I am persistent and IF I refuse to allow men's traditions to sway me, which I somewhat did for 30 plus years on a few things.

The 1290 is before the 1260 and the 1335 is before both of them. When you get to heaven it will be very plain unto you brother, but we see darkly now as men. Pointing towards the time periods of after Jesus' return via the 1290 and 1335 makes no sense, LOOK at the QUESTION Daniel asked, it is the EXACT SAME QUESTION that the Angel asked !!

God Bless.
 
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The Light

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None of that is right. Jesus returns at the 7thn trump,

Of course He returns at the 7th trumpet.
not the 6th seal. The 6th seal only describes the 7th trump return.

What's this?

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
The trib doesn't even start until the 6th trump.

The tribulation is over before the sixth seal is opened.
By then all the seals were opened long ago and the first 5 trumps have sounded.
No seal has been opened.

The 6th trump is the GT,
The great tribulation is over before any trumpets sound. The trumpets are the wrath of God

and the 7th is the second coming which is when the wrath of God begins, Rev 11.
The 7th trumpet is the end of the wrath of God.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Christ has returned. ARMAGEDDON IS OVER.