Can't remember the original title

[Lapidem]

I would define a "fool" as someone who is heading to God, believing that a stone is going to save you.
I would define a "fool" as a pipe dream fantasy that is based on opinion, sci-fi, and an unwillingness to accept responsibility for your free will.

Matt 13:14
"And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:"

Mark 4:12
"That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;"

Luke 8:10
"And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."

 

[Behold]

Matt 13:14
"And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:"

Mark 4:12
"That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;"

Luke 8:10
"And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."

Jesus said....>"You must be born again".

 

[Lapidem]

You have a habit of simply ignoring any argument that doesn't go your way

Let's recap

You claimed god doesn't create evil. I gave you a Bible quote saying he does. You ignored this twice. So what's the score there? Are you denying the Bible text? Or claiming your own interpretation of what it says?

 

[Ziggy]

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

light vs darkness. peace vs , why evil and not war?

Different translations use calamity and disaster instead of evil.

The Hebrew word for evil is Ra' . I find that interesting.

Evil, wickedness, ill favoured, unpleasant... lots of meanings for this word evil.

If you steal something that doesn't belong to you, you could be arrested and go to jail.
Which is evil, the stealing or the going to jail?
You have the option to steal or not to steal, you may not have the option to avoid being arrested.

If you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. I suppose this could be considered evil, although I would call it karma.
Evil is the result of not being good. It's the consequences of ones actions.
Did God create consequences? Yes he did. All through the bible we see what happens when you stray from the good path.
Usually you have bad consequences.
But if there was no "evil" then there would be nothing to measure good by.

God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He told man, these are your choices. Stay away from it and you will live, eat of it and you will die. They chose to eat.
The taking was the act that led to a very bad outcome.
But we always have a choice. Ying and Yang, up and down, left and right, you can't escape the opposite.
But you can choose.

Evil is what is created when you choose badly.
All laws have consequences.
The consequences were created the same time the commandment to not eat of it came.
This is the part where Paul talks about whether the law was good or evil.
Of course the law is good. It's job is to show how bad evil is and not to do it, or pay the consequences.

Don't steal and you won't go to jail.
Jail is the evil that is created by breaking the law.
Stealing is evil.
But the act of stealing is a choice we can make.

When God said, thou shalt not steal. At that moment stealing became evil because God said don't do it.
So God created stealing as an evil thing. One that should be avoided or pay the consequences.

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Evil is written in the ten commandments of things you should not do.
So the question comes down to:
Did God create stealing, lying, killing, adultery, coveting?

God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
This is the law by the way. The should and should nots.
If there were no law there would be no consequences for doing anything.

I think we're going to find out what living in a lawless world is going to be like soon enough.
And I'm not looking forward to it.

I believe God created evil and gave us the freedom to choose that which is good.
Otherwise we would just be a bunch of robots doing what we were programmed to do.
But evil in the sense that God created consequences for doing bad things.

God created the snake in the garden. It's purpose was to tempt us away from God.
The snake was doing it's job. But Adam and Eve had the choice.
Why did they choose wrongly? or did they?
I think we all have to come under the law before we can be liberated and live in the law.
There is a difference between breaking the law and being condemned by it, and keeping the law and walking in it.
One brings condemnation the other brings liberty.
One brings peace and the other brings calamity and destruction.

Deu 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

The choice is yours to make.
Hugs

 

[I.O.U]

The world is filled with evil people who keep designing it to remain so.

And individually, most are in love with evil and can't get enough.

Amen to that one brother.

 

[Gottservant]

Sorry . . . what faith is it you think I am approaching?

Faith in general.

This is mumbo jumbo nonsense, the result of religious indoctrination. Your concept of "god" is entirely wrong.

You're not testing it - that's on your head.

Sin is an invention of the church, a psychological trick to make people voluntarily place themselves in a position of vulnerability and need. It's a lie. Have you read nothing of what I have posted upthread?! The story of Adam and Eve is allegorical. Wake up man.

Have you obeyed the Ten Commandments?

 

[Lapidem]

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

light vs darkness. peace vs , why evil and not war?

Different translations use calamity and disaster instead of evil.

Cutting rest of the spiel sorry

Bottom line is that the Bible states that "God creates evil". No point beating about the bush imo.

God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He told man, these are your choices. Stay away from it and you will live, eat of it and you will die. They chose to eat.

This is not a literal tale as highlighted earlier in this thread. Plus also highlighted is the fact that the entire situation (of that story) was rigged and set up by god in the first place. i.e. By using classic psychology god ensured Adam would eat from the tree, by putting the tree in the garden instead of elsewhere he ensured Adam would at from it and so on. In a nut shell god intended for Adam to eat from the tree, set up the environment for it to happen so was deluding himself if he though Adam had free choice.

Also god lied. Plain and simple as you have highlighted

"eat of it and you will die"

Adam ate, he did not die. What does that make this concept of god?

Makes him sly, manipulative, untruthful, exploitative . . . .

By this simple understanding you should realise that the story of Adam and Eve is purely allegorical, not real at all and that youdon't have the right concept of god.

Evil is what is created when you choose badly.

No it's much more than that. In the Genesis story, what "evil" did Adam create? He simply yearned for more knowledge as any human would, as any human is built and designed to do. Imagine if god deemed killing mice and evil thing and then creating the animal we know as a cat and giving it an innate nature that makes it catch and eat mice. How dumb would that be?!!! A cat is not evil. It does what it has been designed to do. It catches things that move fast.

Adam did nothing evil. He simply wanted more knowledge and unfortunately for him he was being controlled and exploited by a tyrannical figure who did not want him to acquire more knowledge lest he lose his position of advantage and power. In th story of Adam and Eve it is god who is the villain. The snake very clearly told the TRUTH to Adam. God on the other hand LIED to Adam.
The church has long since completely turned around the meaning of this myth for its own ends but anyone with more than 2 brain cells reading the story should instantly realise that god is the villain there. God oppressed Adam by keeping him in ignorance, then fabricated an environment and situation to make Adam fall and lied to Adam at the same time.

All laws have consequences.

There are no laws in this universe except those made up by tyrants to rule over and control others. The only real laws are the laws of nature, science, how the universe ticks.

The consequences were created the same time the commandment to not eat of it came.
This is the part where Paul talks about whether the law was good or evil.
Of course the law is good. It's job is to show how bad evil is and not to do it, or pay the consequences.

No, the job of the law is simply to oppress and control humans. There was and is nothing at all bad about seeking knowledge and wishing to further oneself. Evil manifests itself in those who set themselves up above others. Who seek to control others and make them do their bidding. Everyone should be free. This entire planet is a prison in which spirit/souls are somehow taken from another place and forced into human bodies where they are controlled from that point on. Whoever or whatever is doing this is evil.

Don't steal and you won't go to jail.
Jail is the evil that is created by breaking the law.
Stealing is evil.

These are simply human societal definitions nothing more. Nobody truly owns anything. No man or woman can lay claim to even a single atom in this universe. They do not belong to you or to me. Your notion that you "own" your hat or your ring or the land on which your house is built is entire a thing of fiction. You don't own anything. They are not yours. You simply hope to take temporary possession of them whilst you are in a position to defend them. The concept of stealing is thus artificial. Just another concept within the grand psychological system of control in which we are all trapped.

When God said, thou shalt not steal. At that moment stealing became evil because God said don't do it.
So God created stealing as an evil thing. One that should be avoided or pay the consequences.

Tyranny, dictatorship, Authoritarianism and way you slice it

God also said "do not kill" yet murders men, women, children, babies and even as yet unborn babies with abandon.
Do as I say, not as I do.

Again tyranny

If there were no law there would be no consequences for doing anything.

No that's again wrong. The entire universe operates on the principle of cause and effect. Action - reaction.
This would hold true without any laws.

Laws exist simply to control people. The universe has no laws of this kind. It laughs at our silly concepts.

I believe God created evil and gave us the freedom to choose that which is good.

The universe has no concept of good and bad. These are artificial constructs of tyrants seeking to enslave others and make them do their bidding.

Otherwise we would just be a bunch of robots doing what we were programmed to do.

We would be free entities.

God created the snake in the garden. It's purpose was to tempt us away from God.
The snake was doing it's job. But Adam and Eve had the choice.

The game was rigged from the outset as already explained. God lied, the snake told the truth, Adam did what he was designed to do.

Why did they choose wrongly? or did they?

No they didn't. It is not wrong to seek more knowledge. Only tyrants suppress knowledge.

The choice is yours to make.

I choose to be free in this universe. If there exist entities in this universe that are more powerful than myself and who would wickedly oppress me, seek to kill me, force me to act in certain ways then there's not much I can do about that. That's how the universe works. Survival of the fittest/most powerful.

Imagine you are kidnapped and dumped off in the Middle East in a land of one of the brutal dictators. Are you going to cow tow to their oppressive dictats, grovel on the ground when told to do so, let them have sex with your wife when they choose to do so? Or will you resist and determine that it's better to be killed than live as a gutless coward and slave? The choice is yours to make.

 

[I.O.U]

I am in charity hell (no no not Christianity Board) A charity organisation scooped me up off the streets and placed me in what I could only say as (The Hilton) But the people who run this home shelter are frankly, just cold, no warmth. Not so different from how Christian's treat each other here. But the frightening reality of people who are like that, they never see how cold hearted they are coming across. They are just wall's of beliefs, letting nothing in and letting nothing out.

 

[I.O.U]

Think: Christian's believe they are representing their best love of Jesus regardless to what degree of effect it has on their love target's. I dread to think what it would be like living in a perpetual existence with a God who would be a perfect form of the love they believed God revealed in them to be.

 

[I.O.U]

Somewhere along the line my death must be dying to the world and all that it believes. So the saying should be: Don't die for what you believe in, but die to the thing's you believe in.

 

[Matthias]

Think: If Christian's who believe are representing their best love of Jesus regardless to what degree of effect it has on their love target's, I dread to think what it would be like in a perpetual existence with a God who would be a perfect form of the love they believed God revealed in them to be.

Think: You aren’t looking at the person whom you should be.

You’re looking at people who profess to be Christian but, to varying degrees, aren’t very Christlike.

It won’t be a valid excuse when you stand before Christ, which - as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west - someday you will. You‘ll be judged by him based on what you’ve done, not what they’ve done.

 

[Lapidem]

I am in charity hell (no no, not Christianity Board) A charity organisation scooped me up off the streets and put me up in what I could only say as (The Hilton) But the people who run this home shelter are frankly, just cold, no warmth.

You must realise it gets like that after a while when you deal with street people on a daily basis. I used to work for 3 different support centres in my home city. We all know the "clients" as we call them are potentially very dangerous people given they tend to put themselves in mental states where they are not in control of their bodily faculties on a regular basis. Either through drugs or drink.


We learned this the hard way one weekend when a chap came in and was given a mug of soup. He sat down at a table then started talking to himself and that got louder and louder to the point he was eventually shouting and disrupting everyone else.
Two of the support staff approached him and asked him to calm down but he got worse and seemed to enjoy the confrontation.
The staff then asked him to leave, managed to get him to stand up and ushered him to the door still carrying his soup
Once at the door he stopped and refused to leave and then became violent. There was a scuffle and a young member of the support
staff was among it and got that soup mug smashed in his face breaking his front teeth.

This is the harsh reality of street people. They don't care about their impact on others, they don't care what happens when they put themselves into mental states they can't control. They just want that fix.

They are ill people and need extensive rehab treatment which is not available to them and no council can afford to fund it for them.

A huge societal problem that affects us all. What you must understand from this is that charity support staff learn not to get too "pally" with street people. Many routinely lie, and many will pilfer anything they can get their hands on and many can get violent at the flip of a switch, just needs the right trigger which could be something as mundane as refusing someone a 2nd or 3rd helping of food.

This is why support staff may appear cold hearted and distant.
We are not there to make friends with you.
We are not there to make your life comfy and cosy
We give our time and put ourselves in a position of danger because we know the clients are ill and need help
We can't force the help on you, it has to be wanted and requested.
If you take that path and get better then potentially people can be warmer and friendlier but until then the clients are potential bombs waiting to go off and so we must remain vigilant and stand-offish.

 

[Lapidem]

It won’t be a valid excuse when you stand before Christ, which - as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west - someday you will. You‘ll be judged by him based on what you’ve done, not what they’ve done.

The BS psychological scaremongering nonsense is very unlikely to work on street people. They have bigger concerns.

 

[I.O.U]

Think: You aren’t looking at the person whom you should be.

You’re looking at people who profess to be Christian but, to varying degrees, aren’t very Christlike.

It won’t be a valid excuse when you stand before Christ, which - as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west - someday you will. You‘ll be judged by him based on what you’ve done, not what they’ve done.

You're not Jesus, so try to remember that when presenting him through yourself.

 

[I.O.U]

The BS psychological scaremongering nonsense is very unlikely to work on street people. They have bigger concerns.

You can't truly love someone if you must scare them into staying, right? That is not real love, it's just not, and every natural fibre of my being resists that kind of relationship.

 

[Matthias]

You can't truly love someone if you must scare them into staying, right? That is not real love, it's just not, and every natural fibre of my body resists that kind of relationship.

No one (including Jesus) is trying to scare you into doing anything.

What’s your beef with Jesus?

 

[I.O.U]

You must realise it gets like that after a while when you deal with street people on a daily basis. I used to work for 3 different support centres in my home city. We all know the "clients" as we call them are potentially very dangerous people given they tend to put themselves in mental states where they are not in control of their bodily faculties on a regular basis. Either through drugs or drink.


We learned this the hard way one weekend when a chap came in and was given a mug of soup. He sat down at a table then started talking to himself and that got louder and louder to the point he was eventually shouting and disrupting everyone else.
Two of the support staff approached him and asked him to calm down but he got worse and seemed to enjoy the confrontation.
The staff then asked him to leave, managed to get him to stand up and ushered him to the door still carrying his soup
Once at the door he stopped and refused to leave and then became violent. There was a scuffle and a young member of the support
staff was among it and got that soup mug smashed in his face breaking his front teeth.

This is the harsh reality of street people. They don't care about their impact on others, they don't care what happens when they put themselves into mental states they can't control. They just want that fix.

They are ill people and need extensive rehab treatment which is not available to them and no council can afford to fund it for them.

A huge societal problem that affects us all. What you must understand from this is that charity support staff learn not to get too "pally" with street people. Many routinely lie, and many will pilfer anything they can get their hands on and many can get violent at the flip of a switch, just needs the right trigger which could be something as mundane as refusing someone a 2nd or 3rd helping of food.

This is why support staff may appear cold hearted and distant.
We are not there to make friends with you.
We are not there to make your life comfy and cosy
We give our time and put ourselves in a position of danger because we know the clients are ill and need help
We can't force the help on you, it has to be wanted and requested.
If you take that path and get better then potentially people can be warmer and friendlier but until then the clients are potential bombs waiting to go off and so we must remain vigilant and stand-offish.

You've just lost my interest. I can explain to you why these types of people exist primarily and how to stop creating them. Yes, It is people like yourself who are creating the problem you're trying so hard to fix. Although in order for the world to change, it must give up all the methods they have been previously using. That will require re-learning and comprehending different methods, which will mean to accept their previous methods didn't work. Not many people can do that today, only a few, certainly not enough to cause any large impact on the stampeding herd of believers who already know everything.

 

[I.O.U]

No one (including Jesus) is trying to scare you into doing anything.

What’s your beef with Jesus?

You! and people like you.

 

[Matthias]

You! and people like you.

Jesus?

 

[I.O.U]

Jesus?

Yes my child.