Christ has already returned ?

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MatthewG

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Looking at it this way, that would mean nothing in the Bible is for us today. The book of John was address to certain people of that time, so does that mean John 3:16 no longer applies today? Think about what you're saying here. What Paul taught in his letters was not intended for his audience only. Paul references the church in Ephesians 5:22-32. Not just the church in Ephesus. The body of Christ. There's no reason to think that Paul would not have written things that were applicable to the overall body of Christ to the Ephesians.

I never said — nor have I ever implied — that nothing in the Bible applies to us today. There are universal principles all throughout Scripture that still stand. Saying that the Bride of Christ was a first‑century reality doesn’t mean the rest of the Bible becomes useless. That’s simply not what I believe.

What I am saying is this:
Certain passages had a specific audience, covenant moment, and historical context.
That includes the teachings about the Bride and the sealing that belonged to that generation Jesus spoke to.

But that doesn’t erase the universal truths we still live by — like John 3:16. The problem is that many people quote John 3:16 while also preaching that God hates the world and that Jesus is coming back to destroy it. That’s a contradiction they never address.

So yes, you’re right that Paul taught things that apply broadly to the body of Christ. But that doesn’t change the fact that some parts of his letters were written to a specific people facing a specific prophetic moment. Both can be true at the same time.

You’re pointing out a double‑edged tension, and I get that. But acknowledging context doesn’t make Scripture less meaningful — it actually makes it more accurate and more consistent.


The Bible is useful for building up the spiritual man or woman but not to become spiritually prideful over people or anything like that, but to abide more in the Spirit of Christ if anything.
 

Truth7t7

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As suspected, the Preterist nonsense destroyed by a few simple verses.
Conc :-
Christ has NOT YET returned
100% correct!

Yes the preterist bend and twist scripture trying desperately to put the events of the Olivet discourse being fulfilled in the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem by Roman armies as fulfillment of Matthew 24

Many posting are "Partial Preterist" and they deny specifically the literal second coming seen below in Matthew and claim it represents a coming in Judgement, denying the literal second coming seen

(The Future Literal Second Coming Seen Beliw)

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

MatthewG

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100% correct!

Yes the preterist bend and twist scripture trying desperately to put the events of the Olivet discourse being fulfilled in the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem by Roman armies as fulfillment of Matthew 24

Many posting are "Partial Preterist" and they deny specifically the literal second coming seen below in Matthew and claim it represents a coming in Judgement, denying the literal second coming seen

(The Future Literal Second Coming Seen Beliw)

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I just want you to know I have you hidden and ignored but what you say is a lie about me personally, as you can see below. Thank you for your contribution to this thread that is not even mine.

I appericate everyone person that is against me on this forum site.

But make sure you know what I am capable of telling people in real life as well as the internet with no shame. They disagree but that is about it.

 

MatthewG

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I just want you to know I have you hidden and ignored but what you say is a lie about me personally, as you can see below. Thank you for your contribution to this thread that is not even mine.

I appericate everyone person that is against me on this forum site.

But make sure you know what I am capable of telling people in real life as well as the internet with no shame. They disagree but that is about it.




People think im coming out with some private interpertation or something when I openly confess in front real life human beings with no problem.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I never said — nor have I ever implied — that nothing in the Bible applies to us today. There are universal principles all throughout Scripture that still stand. Saying that the Bride of Christ was a first‑century reality doesn’t mean the rest of the Bible becomes useless. That’s simply not what I believe.
You seem to have implied it. It comes across that way to me when you say that Ephesians 5:22-32 only applies to the ones that Paul wrote to. How do you decide that to be the case, but then decide that other things he said apply more than to just them and still apply to all believers today?

What I am saying is this:
Certain passages had a specific audience, covenant moment, and historical context.
That includes the teachings about the Bride and the sealing that belonged to that generation Jesus spoke to.
How do you come to that conclusion with any given passage?

So yes, you’re right that Paul taught things that apply broadly to the body of Christ. But that doesn’t change the fact that some parts of his letters were written to a specific people facing a specific prophetic moment. Both can be true at the same time.
Yes, that can be true, but how do you come to that conclusion in relation to Ephesians 5:22-32, where Paul references "the church" in general rather than just the church in Ephesus?
 

MatthewG

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You seem to have implied it. It comes across that way to me when you say that Ephesians 5:22-32 only applies to the ones that Paul wrote to. How do you decide that to be the case, but then decide that other things he said apply more than to just them and still apply to all believers today?


How do you come to that conclusion with any given passage?


Yes, that can be true, but how do you come to that conclusion in relation to Ephesians 5:22-32, where Paul references "the church" in general rather than just the church in Ephesus?

The Spirit. Take that however you want. Cause I can't take human word half the time. As you see some people wanna lie about other people without even understanding what they have to share.
 

MatthewG

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Yes, that can be true, but how do you come to that conclusion in relation to Ephesians 5:22-32, where Paul references "the church" in general rather than just the church in Ephesus?
Paul absolutely references “the church” in Ephesians 5, but that doesn’t change who he was talking to or the covenant moment they were living in. When Paul says “the church,” he isn’t suddenly shifting to a timeless, universal, all‑future body. He’s speaking about the first‑century community of believers who were actually alive, actually waiting for Christ’s appearing, and actually part of the covenant Bride.

He even frames the whole letter to “the saints who are in Ephesus” (Eph. 1:1). The audience doesn’t magically change just because he uses the word “church” in a broader sense. Paul regularly uses “the church” to describe the collective body of believers of his own generation—the same people he says Christ would return for soon (Hebrews 10:37), the same people he says were being prepared as a Bride (Revelation 19:7).

So Ephesians 5 isn’t Paul talking to us today. It’s Paul explaining the relationship between Christ and the Bride that existed then, the one he said was being sanctified and cleansed in their time.

Nothing in the passage requires me to insert myself into that first‑century Bride. I can believe in Christ, walk in the Kingdom, and live by the Spirit without claiming a role that belonged to a specific covenant people in a specific moment of redemptive history.

That’s how I come to that conclusion.
 

rockytopva

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When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:6-7

Does anyone here have the humility to say... "I don't know?"

Isaac Newton intelligently dealt with this in the correct spirit.

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. -Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming may be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ's coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

Such writings are done in the correct spirit... In which I see so little here!
 

MatthewG

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When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:6-7

Does anyone here have the humility to say... "I don't know?"

Isaac Newton intelligently dealt with this in the correct spirit.

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. -Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming may be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ's coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

Such writings are done in the correct spirit... In which I see so little here!

Dont you believe in Isacc newtons timeline? Does the spirit really conclude that in the picture ?

I mean how much more biblical evidence do you need?

Yeah, good luck with all that my man you can believe any person you want to.

I am gonna believe Jesus and his Apostles.


not that it matters you can believe "any person you want to" right.
 

Gray_Joy

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If Jesus already returned the second time,what are we undergoing now in that second coming timeline of events ?
 

rockytopva

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Dont you believe in Isacc newtons timeline? Does the spirit really conclude that in the picture ?

I mean how much more biblical evidence do you need?

Yeah, good luck with all that my man you can believe any person you want to.

I am gonna believe Jesus and his Apostles.


not that it matters you can believe "any person you want to" right.
In which they said... But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. - 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2
 

MatthewG

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In which they said... But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. - 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2

Never written to you. But we will die and we dont know when that is. Everyone is gonna get their "Jesus return experience when they die" technically.

Jesus with us today though right? Or wrong. Christ in you?
That was written in the first letter to the Thessalonians and then their is a second one to those saints in that place.
 

MatthewG

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If Jesus already returned the second time,what are we undergoing now in that second coming timeline of events ?

A life where you choose what you get to do. Either believe and incorporate abiding in the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ and living by the Spirit... loving God and loving others. Or not.

Idk how much more people want it. People want destruction and all the evil gotten rid all the while they are the ones who can be the evil, that give good gifts to their children. (According to Jesus)
 

rockytopva

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Never written to you. But we will die and we dont know when that is. Everyone is gonna get their "Jesus return experience when they die" technically.

Jesus with us today though right? Or wrong. Christ in you?
That was written in the first letter to the Thessalonians and then their is a second one to those saints in that place.
Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. - John 21
 

MatthewG

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Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. - John 21

I don't know what you got to share with me dude, you can believe whatever you want but you wont change my mind and Ive done shared enough information here and you are not gonna go through and comment on any of it cause you probably dont have the time or the means to even consider the stuff.

So what is it to me, if it doesnt matter to you either? I just might as well walk away.
 

MatthewG

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Obviously, death is inescapable @rockytopva I had a coworker's child die on him and his wife, within a week of being born. They pulled the plug sunday. So much for miracles, he was going with Jesus, and God took that childs life. But he not upset about it (he is upset about it of course). I told him she is in heaven now. (All within this month.)
 

MatthewG

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Obviously, death is inescapable I had a coworker's child die on him and his wife, within a week of being born. They pulled the plug sunday. So much for miracles, he was going with Jesus, and God took that childs life. But he not upset about it (he is upset about it of course). I told him she is in heaven now. (All within this month.)

Was this child part of the Bride of Christ in 2026? Obviously not. And that’s the point I’m trying to make. People keep dragging first‑century covenant language into our time as if it automatically applies to everyone today, when it simply doesn’t.

What I really hope is that more people start living by the Spirit instead of getting trapped in religious bondage. So many folks can’t even enjoy the freedom Jesus brings because they’re weighed down by expectations God never put on them.

“I gotta go to church every Sunday and Wednesday.” “I gotta speak in tongues.” “I gotta heal people.” “I gotta give money to every homeless person.” “I gotta tell every single person I meet about Jesus.” “I gotta check off this whole list so I know I did my part.”

That’s not freedom. That’s not life in Christ. That’s pressure, fear, and performance dressed up as spirituality.

Jesus already did what you could never do. He finished the work. He brought freedom. And instead of living under a checklist, you can simply give Him glory, walk in faith, and make your own decisions before God with a clean conscience.

That’s what it means to live by the Spirit—freedom, not bondage; faith, not fear; relationship, not religious slavery.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The Spirit. Take that however you want. Cause I can't take human word half the time. As you see some people wanna lie about other people without even understanding what they have to share.
All of us here believe that we are getting understanding from the Holy Spirit, so saying that alone is not enough to explain how you are coming to your conclusions. If the Spirit is giving you your understanding, then you should be able to clearly explain the truth as the Spirit has shared it with you. So, why does the reference to "the church" in Ephesians 5:22-32 not refer to the entire church/body of Christ rather than just the church in Ephesus? Whenever a specific church is referenced in scripture, it is made clear. Such as how the churches in Paul's epistles are referenced in relation to the city they were in and we see the same thing in Revelation as well in relation to the seven churches in the province of Asia. So, if Paul meant something other than the global church/body of Christ in Ephesians 5:22-32, I feel certain that he would have made that clear. But, instead he just referred to "the church" in general. Any reference to "the church" in general in scripture refers to the global church/body of Christ.
 

MatthewG

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All of us here believe that we are getting understanding from the Holy Spirit, so saying that alone is not enough to explain how you are coming to your conclusions. If the Spirit is giving you your understanding, then you should be able to clearly explain the truth as the Spirit has shared it with you. So, why does the reference to "the church" in Ephesians 5:22-32 not refer to the entire church/body of Christ rather than just the church in Ephesus? Whenever a specific church is referenced in scripture, it is made clear. Such as how the churches in Paul's epistles are referenced in relation to the city they were in and we see the same thing in Revelation as well in relation to the seven churches in the province of Asia. So, if Paul meant something other than the global church/body of Christ in Ephesians 5:22-32, I feel certain that he would have made that clear. But, instead he just referred to "the church" in general. Any reference to "the church" in general in scripture refers to the global church/body of Christ.

Lol people say "the holy spirit tells me this or God told me this" all the time.

Do you believe just every single person that says that to you?

I just go by the spirit of Christ which is said to produce love, mercy, kindness, faithfulness, longsuffering...

Idk what you trying to say by that notion alone.
 

ProDeo

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My belief goes against the core of their system because I hold to fulfillment — that Jesus kept His word exactly as He said He would. He was not a liar. He told His disciples, “Some standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom” (Matthew 16:28). I take Him at His word.

Consider the Roman historian Josephus about AD 70

Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God
himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did
so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to
see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them. Thus
there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued
a whole year. Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which
preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened
bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus,[Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the
night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright
day time; which lasted for half an hour.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jesus in the sky saving His church in Israel from the great tribulation ?

Matt 24:40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
Matt 24:41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.
Matt 24:42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.