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Enoch111

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If you believe that Rome is less dangerous than Riyadh, or Mecca, you haven't read your history. And you aren't watching the right news channels.
How can Rome be more dangerous than Riyadh or Mecca? Who do you think funds the Islamist terrorists? Who do you think beheads innocents? The last thing people need is for someone to peddle the idea that "Islam is a religion of peace" (George W. Bush's stupid remark). Mohammad would laugh at such stupidity. People need to read and study the Koran, then review all the atrocities committed in the name of "Allah" (the most recent being in Texas, where thankfully the Pakistani terrorist was an incompetent, and only he was killed).
 
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Brakelite

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This part of your post: "But this thread want about Islam."
You should get with the author of the OP . The OP states quite clearly this thread is about Islam.
Seems you are like I used to be in school. Easily distracted. First, I am the author of the OP. I shall quote myself.
"Are there developing within evangelicalism, that divide? Is evangelicalism being radicalized? Is evangelism in all three faith paradigms now sharing some similar characteristics and traits that reflect the increasing marginalisation of society and the trend toward compulsion on so many fronts? And finally, is that trend, especially within evangelicalism in America, fulfilling prophecy?"
Now... Suggestion. Watch the video on the OP and understand even more fully why I ask the above questions. So far, no-one has been willing to actually embrace the topic. Most are simply giving airtime to the prejudices.
 

Cassandra

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So much for being "no part of the world" (John 18:36).....the kingdom of God will not come by human efforts.
If you believe that God is in control, then why does he need us to do anything but preach the Kingdom message as Jesus instructed?

It is a message of peace, not war. Jesus never once rose up against the Roman government that was oppressing his people.
When he and his apostles were arrested, it was for preaching...not breaking the law by inciting to violence. They offered no resistance, but relied on God to see them through any trial. It doesn't matter who the President or the Prime Minister is, or isn't.....this is God's fight, not ours.

John 17:14-18...
"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I am not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them away from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 Just as You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world."

What the world is doing is what God has already foretold....its going to happen and its none of our business.
Christians have no nationality, and therefore cannot be patriots who will resort to violence to get their point across.
Whipping people up emotionally is not Christianity.


Live and let God.....

Exactly! Jesus was not in trouble for being a poor citizen. Pilate could find no fault with Him. What he was tried for was religious in nature.
Jesus said it all with His "Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's..." Separate church and state.

And as for God foretelling what the world is doing, well,yes, it is all spelled out in Matthew 24, yet I see so many Christians say it will get better. No it's not.
 
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bbyrd009

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I can see you're a Muslim sympathizer as are many on here, go with that then if you like.
meh, lived over there for a while; they’re just people, mostly disaffected maybe, easy to take advantage of. They do seem to make better Christians than us, broadly speaking

funny you put it that way though; its you i have sympathy for
What about the Crusades? That was the Knights Templar defending the Holy land from the Tyrannical Muslims
and getting their hinies handed to them lol

so, if a bunch of Muslims invaded the US, thats what that would be too right, defense against tyrannical Christians? We stole N America from Tyrannical Indians?
And the Templars not only protected the Holy land from the Muslims, but also it's Christian and Jewish pilgrims going to the Holy land.
you forgot about the part where they were welcomed by Muslims, until the Templars got involved

i feel for you ok jp, but you are warped with hate and fear and im not going to respond to any more of your posts
 
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bbyrd009

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Certain powers-that-be have a vested interest in making us afraid of our neighbors. What are we afraid of?
dunno much about Islam, but most Muslims have somehow got a coat of many colors, and resist…marching in files and rows, so to speak. “Sunni” and “Shia” i never heard those terms, except from a white person. Id much rather be abandoned on the West Bank than anywhere in the Western world i can think of, and i am extremely white
 

Oceanprayers

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Seems you are like I used to be in school. Easily distracted. First, I am the author of the OP. I shall quote myself.
"Are there developing within evangelicalism, that divide? Is evangelicalism being radicalized? Is evangelism in all three faith paradigms now sharing some similar characteristics and traits that reflect the increasing marginalisation of society and the trend toward compulsion on so many fronts? And finally, is that trend, especially within evangelicalism in America, fulfilling prophecy?"
Now... Suggestion. Watch the video on the OP and understand even more fully why I ask the above questions. So far, no-one has been willing to actually embrace the topic. Most are simply giving airtime to the prejudices.
It only seems that way.
 

Oceanprayers

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By being more deceptive, and appearing to be nothing at all as she actually is. And that's precisely what these last days are all about. There's nothing deceptive about Islam. What you see is what you get.
Not at all true.
You really should make the effort to study what Islam teaches. Not doing this, being unaware as you are about Islam as you demonstrate in your statement there, is you disseminating erroneous information.

You might start with seeking out the definition of kitmān.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Certain powers-that-be have a vested interest in making us afraid of our neighbors. What are we afraid of?
Yes.....and not many are aware of what clever propaganda fed to the people via their media on a regular basis, can accomplish. People's perceptions are carefully managed so that sympathies will be scant if there is a conflict.

Looked what happened with 9/11....they were looking for an excuse to take out Saddam Hussein and get their hands on his oil, so they somehow made Bin Laden the scapegoat, but went to war with an entirely different country. How many Americans had no idea? How many just believed what the media told them. It pays to know who owns and controls the media.

Most Muslims are just people like any others, not interested in terrorism or hijacking planes or killing anyone....just people who want to live their lives and worship their god in peace. Stereotyping people is what the western world does best....engender hatred for a minority and then tar them all with the same brush. We have to understand what radicalizes people who are easily whipped up by the likes of the man in the OP.
Radical Muslim clerics are the at the bottom of these terrible atrocities.....but seeing the invasion of the Capitol building, its not just Muslims who can get radicalized. This cleric says its about the Bible, but really it just about his own political prejudices.
He is on a power trip, pure and simple. Jesus would NEVER have behaved that way.

Religion and politics are a bad marriage because because the whole world is controlled by God's adversary. (1 John 5:19)
Any support for any political entity in any nation is supporting the devil's rulership....there are no "good guys". We are to 'love our enemies and to pray for them'. (Matthew 5:43-44)
How can we love our enemies with weapons? How can we drop bombs on small children and maintain a clear conscience? Who invented the term "collateral damage" I wonder...?

True Christians will therefore never take up weapons to kill anyone. Those clergy in the military should be admonishing their charges to put down their weapons and behave like Jesus. Instead they are happy to be "friends of the world" which puts them at "enmity with God". (James 4:4)
 

Oceanprayers

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Yes.....and not many are aware of what clever propaganda fed to the people via their media on a regular basis, can accomplish. People's perceptions are carefully managed so that sympathies will be scant if there is a conflict.

Looked what happened with 9/11....they were looking for an excuse to take out Saddam Hussein and get their hands on his oil, so they somehow made Bin Laden the scapegoat, but went to war with an entirely different country. How many Americans had no idea? How many just believed what the media told them. It pays to know who owns and controls the media.

Most Muslims are just people like any others, not interested in terrorism or hijacking planes or killing anyone....just people who want to live their lives and worship their god in peace. Stereotyping people is what the western world does best....engender hatred for a minority and then tar them all with the same brush. We have to understand what radicalizes people who are easily whipped up by the likes of the man in the OP.
Radical Muslim clerics are the at the bottom of these terrible atrocities.....but seeing the invasion of the Capitol building, its not just Muslims who can get radicalized. This cleric says its about the Bible, but really it just about his own political prejudices.
He is on a power trip, pure and simple. Jesus would NEVER have behaved that way.

Religion and politics are a bad marriage because because the whole world is controlled by God's adversary. (1 John 5:19)
Any support for any political entity in any nation is supporting the devil's rulership....there are no "good guys". We are to 'love our enemies and to pray for them'. (Matthew 5:43-44)
How can we love our enemies with weapons? How can we drop bombs on small children and maintain a clear conscience? Who invented the term "collateral damage" I wonder...?

True Christians will therefore never take up weapons to kill anyone. Those clergy in the military should be admonishing their charges to put down their weapons and behave like Jesus. Instead they are happy to be "friends of the world" which puts them at "enmity with God". (James 4:4)
Your political perspective there, especially with regard to the invasion of Iraq is a product of propaganda reporting.

Iraq wasn't about the oil.
The Iraq War Was Not About Oil

Furthermore, when lacking knowledge regarding Islam I would suggest it is wise to not make statements about what Islam and Islamists are and are not. Because when someone doesn't know anything about Islam except for what they claim to have glean3d from certain Muslims they claim to converse with, they don't actually know what they're talking about.
All they admittedly do know, claim, is they've spoken to people who also happen to be Muslim.

Furthermore and finally, the last part of your post demonstrates a profound lack of awareness of the bible. And, disrespects entirely the liberties and freedoms you are privileged to enjoy in your homeland due to the sacrifices of many a Christian and others including atheists who served and died in the military. Because God knows freedom isn't free.

Making this statement :"...True Christians will therefore never take up weapons to kill anyone. Those clergy in the military should be admonishing their charges to put down their weapons and behave like Jesus."

Is foolish and short sighted. Jesus was God!
The testaments are repleat with passages wherein God decreed his chosen people would take up arms to defend against their enemies and God's.
To do otherwise, to refuse to provide for one's family, which necessarily includes their defense, was unacceptable. And is in fact an act worse than that of an unbeliever. 1Timothy 5:8

So in the lowest parts of the space behind the wall, in open places, I stationed the people by their clans, with their swords, their spears, and their bows. And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.” Nehemiah 4:13-14

And this observation in your post is really bad form.And again, is an example of low to no bible acumen.
"Any support for any political entity in any nation is supporting the devil's rulership...."

Because every government authority has is put in place by God. Who let's Satan be Lord of this world.

Romans13:1- 7: Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.


Finally,again, if we were "friends if the world", the government, we would be disarmed so as to not be a threat to anyone at all.
Nor able to defend our house/nation.
And since God says that is being worse than an unbeliever, that would put us in enmity with God.

Thanks for your time.
 

Aunty Jane

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Your political perspective there, especially with regard to the invasion of Iraq is a product of propaganda reporting.

Iraq wasn't about the oil.
The Iraq War Was Not About Oil
I think I mentioned something about propaganda.....some people mistake it for NEWS.

From your quote....
"The attitudes and actions of oil industry figures to the free-for-all that followed the fall of Baghdad could be cited to infer that they were the hidden hand behind the waging of war after all. Former policy director of BP, Nick Butler, penned an article in the Financial Times: “Perhaps the most useful parting gift that the Coalition could leave… is a practical model for renewal of the oil sector.” Shell employed a special advisor to work on a production and exploration strategy for Iraq from 2004–08. Halliburton won a two-year technical services agreement with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers."

Wow.....what a fortuitous coincidence.....just the spoils of war huh?

Furthermore, when lacking knowledge regarding Islam I would suggest it is wise to not make statements about what Islam and Islamists are and are not. Because when someone doesn't know anything about Islam except for what they claim to have glean3d from certain Muslims they claim to converse with, they don't actually know what they're talking about.
All they admittedly do know, claim, is they've spoken to people who also happen to be Muslim.
There are fanatical wackos in any religion.....some are just better at selling their goods to others who want to buy into their agendas. I guess that non-Christians could assume a lot about Christians just by observing their behavior.....how are they any more noble than anyone else who can justify bloodshed over corrupt politics? Where does Jesus ever justify it? (Matthew 5:43-44)
If we are citizens of God's Kingdom, where does it mention dual citizenship? All I see is that satan rules this world because "all the kingdoms of the world were delivered" to him, (Luke 4:5-7) so all who shed blood now, even if they claim to be Christians, are his servants, not God's.

Furthermore and finally, the last part of your post demonstrates a profound lack of awareness of the bible. And, disrespects entirely the liberties and freedoms you are privileged to enjoy in your homeland due to the sacrifices of many a Christian and others including atheists who served and died in the military. Because God knows freedom isn't free.
palm
And there it is.....patriotism cancelling out Christianity.....whom do you serve? If you would kill your enemy, then you disobey Christ. That is the mark of true Christianity.....to face death without compromising Christ's teachings. It is putting faith in God, not in weapons.
Romans 12:12-21...NET
"Do not repay anyone evil for evil; consider what is good before all people. 18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all people. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, dear friends, but give place to God’s wrath, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 Rather, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in doing this you will be heaping burning coals on his head. 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

That is what a Christian does....God has not sanctioned a war since the days of ancient Israel. In Jesus' day, as a subjugated people, Israel did not even have an army.

Making this statement :"...True Christians will therefore never take up weapons to kill anyone. Those clergy in the military should be admonishing their charges to put down their weapons and behave like Jesus."

Is foolish and short sighted. Jesus was God!
No, he wasn't....he never once said he was God.....can you furnish a single scripture where either God or his Christ claimed by a direct statement that they were part of a three in one godhead?

Jesus was a "servant" of his God and did as he was told.....as any obedient servant would. (Acts 4:27; John 7:16)
When Jesus prayed the Lord's Prayer, he said "OUR Father who art in heaven", not YOUR Father.
Jehovah is the God and Father of Jesus Christ even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12) How can God be his own God? Does he worship himself?
 

Aunty Jane

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The testaments are repleat with passages wherein God decreed his chosen people would take up arms to defend against their enemies and God's.
To do otherwise, to refuse to provide for one's family, which necessarily includes their defense, was unacceptable. And is in fact an act worse than that of an unbeliever. 1Timothy 5:8
LOL...the Israelites were not Christians. God sanctioned their wars only when their God-given land was under threat from enemy nations. Tell me what nation on earth today has land that is God-given.....? Most of the land is stolen from someone else...including yours and mine. Britain's little piece of dirt was not enough, so she went all over the world in her superior naval vessels and took from the indigenous people what belonged to them.

The Jews are spread all over the world so their homeland was taken over by other nations. Even today the three Abrahamic religions all lay claim to this piece of dirt......literally coming to blows over it.

But what did Jesus say to the Samaritan woman at the well?
“Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You people worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews." (John 4:21-22 NET)
Geographic location was not to matter in the future.....salvation originated with the Jews, but it does not end with them. Christ's disciples are now multi-national. That means if a war breaks out no Christian will be found fighting against his own brother. (1 John 4:20-21)

So in the lowest parts of the space behind the wall, in open places, I stationed the people by their clans, with their swords, their spears, and their bows. And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.” Nehemiah 4:13-14
OT writings regarding their conflicts have no significance for Christians who are under a new covenant and a new set of rules. This applied when Israel occupied their own land.
The pre-Christian era was a time of much bloodshed....but this was not to be for Christ's followers. Christ was specific and so were the apostles.....there is no justification for any Christian to shed blood. (2 Corinthians 10:3-5) We have weapons more powerful than anything used by man.

And this observation in your post is really bad form.And again, is an example of low to no bible acumen.
"Any support for any political entity in any nation is supporting the devil's rulership...."

Because every government authority has is put in place by God. Who let's Satan be Lord of this world.

Romans13:1- 7: Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
Bad form? or just the inconvenient truth?
whistling

You seem to overlook the fact that God handed the rulership of the world over to the devil, so, any governments that rule, do so by his permission so that his people will not live in anarchy and they can do what Christ assigned them to do....'preach the good news of God's Kingdom'. His servants would be law-abiding citizens, but not supporting political ideologies and agendas.
Jesus said that his disciples would be "NO PART of the world" and the genuine ones have obeyed him. They are the ones who are in jail because they refuse to join the military and disobey their Lord.

Finally,again, if we were "friends if the world", the government, we would be disarmed so as to not be a threat to anyone at all.
Nor able to defend our house/nation.
And since God says that is being worse than an unbeliever, that would put us in enmity with God.
Who has your faith and trust? God or man?
God said it was worse than being an unbeliever if we failed to provide for our families.....it doesn't mean we have to kill for them.

I believe that you have your own view of scripture but it is not the only one.....who said other views are invalid? Are you the judge of what is truth? What if you are the one in error?
 

Oceanprayers

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LOL...the Israelites were not Christians. God sanctioned their wars only when their God-given land was under threat from enemy nations. Tell me what nation on earth today has land that is God-given.....? Most of the land is stolen from someone else...including yours and mine. Britain's little piece of dirt was not enough, so she went all over the world in her superior naval vessels and took from the indigenous people what belonged to them.

The Jews are spread all over the world so their homeland was taken over by other nations. Even today the three Abrahamic religions all lay claim to this piece of dirt......literally coming to blows over it.

But what did Jesus say to the Samaritan woman at the well?
“Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You people worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews." (John 4:21-22 NET)
Geographic location was not to matter in the future.....salvation originated with the Jews, but it does not end with them. Christ's disciples are now multi-national. That means if a war breaks out no Christian will be found fighting against his own brother. (1 John 4:20-21)


OT writings regarding their conflicts have no significance for Christians who are under a new covenant and a new set of rules. This applied when Israel occupied their own land.
The pre-Christian era was a time of much bloodshed....but this was not to be for Christ's followers. Christ was specific and so were the apostles.....there is no justification for any Christian to shed blood. (2 Corinthians 10:3-5) We have weapons more powerful than anything used by man.


Bad form? or just the inconvenient truth?
whistling

You seem to overlook the fact that God handed the rulership of the world over to the devil, so, any governments that rule, do so by his permission so that his people will not live in anarchy and they can do what Christ assigned them to do....'preach the good news of God's Kingdom'. His servants would be law-abiding citizens, but not supporting political ideologies and agendas.
Jesus said that his disciples would be "NO PART of the world" and the genuine ones have obeyed him. They are the ones who are in jail because they refuse to join the military and disobey their Lord.


Who has your faith and trust? God or man?
God said it was worse than being an unbeliever if we failed to provide for our families.....it doesn't mean we have to kill for them.

I believe that you have your own view of scripture but it is not the only one.....who said other views are invalid? Are you the judge of what is truth? What if you are the one in error?
I'm certainly able to be in error. But not this time.

Every reader here judges what is truth in others posts. Yours is lacking in truth and knowledge, which are not mutually exclusive given your intended message that hopes to lead people to agree with you.

I don't. Because I know more than you do. That's how I know you're wrong.
Arrogant? No. It's simply true.
 

Oceanprayers

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I think I mentioned something about propaganda.....some people mistake it for NEWS.

From your quote....
"The attitudes and actions of oil industry figures to the free-for-all that followed the fall of Baghdad could be cited to infer that they were the hidden hand behind the waging of war after all. Former policy director of BP, Nick Butler, penned an article in the Financial Times: “Perhaps the most useful parting gift that the Coalition could leave… is a practical model for renewal of the oil sector.” Shell employed a special advisor to work on a production and exploration strategy for Iraq from 2004–08. Halliburton won a two-year technical services agreement with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers."

Wow.....what a fortuitous coincidence.....just the spoils of war huh?


There are fanatical wackos in any religion.....some are just better at selling their goods to others who want to buy into their agendas. I guess that non-Christians could assume a lot about Christians just by observing their behavior.....how are they any more noble than anyone else who can justify bloodshed over corrupt politics? Where does Jesus ever justify it? (Matthew 5:43-44)
If we are citizens of God's Kingdom, where does it mention dual citizenship? All I see is that satan rules this world because "all the kingdoms of the world were delivered" to him, (Luke 4:5-7) so all who shed blood now, even if they claim to be Christians, are his servants, not God's.


palm
And there it is.....patriotism cancelling out Christianity.....whom do you serve? If you would kill your enemy, then you disobey Christ. That is the mark of true Christianity.....to face death without compromising Christ's teachings. It is putting faith in God, not in weapons.
Romans 12:12-21...NET
"Do not repay anyone evil for evil; consider what is good before all people. 18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all people. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, dear friends, but give place to God’s wrath, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 Rather, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in doing this you will be heaping burning coals on his head. 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

That is what a Christian does....God has not sanctioned a war since the days of ancient Israel. In Jesus' day, as a subjugated people, Israel did not even have an army.


No, he wasn't....he never once said he was God.....can you furnish a single scripture where either God or his Christ claimed by a direct statement that they were part of a three in one godhead?

Jesus was a "servant" of his God and did as he was told.....as any obedient servant would. (Acts 4:27; John 7:16)
When Jesus prayed the Lord's Prayer, he said "OUR Father who art in heaven", not YOUR Father.
Jehovah is the God and Father of Jesus Christ even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12) How can God be his own God? Does he worship himself?
You just proved my point.
 

Aunty Jane

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I'm certainly able to be in error. But not this time.

Every reader here judges what is truth in others posts. Yours is lacking in truth and knowledge, which are not mutually exclusive given your intended message that hopes to lead people to agree with you.
Is that what you are afraid of? That is what the Pharisees were afraid of too....the truth can be quite confronting if you cannot dispute it.

I don't. Because I know more than you do. That's how I know you're wrong.
Arrogant? No. It's simply true.
Famous last words.....? Looks like arrogance to me......"you're wrong" is never an adequate answer to anything.
It just shows that you have no response to the points raised in my post......we'll have to wait and see I guess.

You just proved my point.
What point was that? You never addressed a single thing. So how about you address what I said instead of whatever you call this response.....
dunno