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well that was easy.
you were looking for a way out.
I simply referred to your modern mainstream christendom brethren and you dove out the window.
take care. hope you learned something.
God bless.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Faith 101.
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)
Faith 102.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1)
Faith 103.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:2)
"Jesus came to save workers of iniquity" = SINNERS.
Who is that?
"ALL have sinned"
That's us, you, me, everyone.
The Cross is for EVERYONE.., not just Calvin's "pre-destined" cult teaching.
neither Jesus, nor Matthew agree with you.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:21-23
The will of the Father is that you "believe on Jesus whom God sent".
Here is God's will for us all.
"Jesus said... all that believe in me, i give unto them eternal life, and they shall never go to Hell( perish).
A.) = See, that is the main thing, the one True WILL of God,... as if you dont do that, you are not going to Heaven, because you are not a Son of God, born again.
"Jesus said you MUST be.... born......again"
contrary to modern mainstream popular churchianity, which is all I've ever seen you preach, Behold, True Christians are not sinners.
yes, we've all sinned, but a sinner is someone who has accepted, and embraced, their sins.
"while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
while we were 'yet' sinners. meaning while we were 'still' sinners - distinctly indicating that there was a later time that we would not still be sinners.
shall we also declare that all Christians are cursers/cussers? does that make any sense at all?
yes, most still slip a curse word here or there, as James 3:2 covers, but to claim they are all cursers/cussers is to say that they do it as regularly and blatantly as a sailor, so to speak.
it's just not the case that those who sincerely follow Christ are sinners today. those who make an effort to live cleanly and righteously do not sin on a regular, blatant, basis.
it's just a fact.
Interesting.
I have at least 3 people following me around on My many Threads that always teach that there is "no sin in Christ" and Christians dont have sin, because "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"
I guess you missed my nearly 400 Threads, and over 10,000 posts here, that all teach that, and much more, related to being "made righteous" as "The righteousness of God, in Christ".
it's apples and oranges.
I'm not claiming Christians have no sin. as I said, all have sinned.
I'm suggesting that True committed Christians don't sin on a regular basis to be called "sinners".
it would be silly to call Christians murderers, though some try and make the point that we are because we've thought this thought or that, but most understand that we are not murderers, even if some of us have committed murder prior to being saved.
sin is the breaking of God's 10 Commandments and it separates man from God. how then can a True Christian, a follower of sin-LESS Christ, be a "sinner"?
it doesn't follow any sound logic.
:"all have sinned" before they are saved... thats true.
After they are born again, they are this..
"But NOW being made FREE from Sin, and become servants to God".
The born again , exist IN CHRIST....and there is no sin found there..
sin separates us from God. if a Christian is still capable of sin (which he is), he is separating himself from God, not abiding (staying) in Christ, and doesn't develop the fruit God intends him to develop.
1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He [a]takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. ...
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1
concur?
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Sin separates the sinner from God.
The born again are not sinners.......they are "New Creation's "in Christ".
I want you to consider this..
Is there any Sin in Christ?
Is there any Sin in God?
Is there any Sin in Heaven?
Is there any Sin in the KOG?
All the born again are "in Christ"
All the born again are "one with God"
All the born again are "seated in Heavenly places, In Christ'.
All the born again are "translated from DARKNESS......To = LIGHT"
"God exists in LIGHT."
"Jesus is the LIGHT of the World".
"The born again are Children of THE Light'
The Kingdom of God is the Kingdom of LIGHT"
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
So He did, but the reprobates and sons of perdition are disqualified.
If good works can't get anyone saved, how much less works of iniquity.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
Tit 1:15-16 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. (16) They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
"But now being free from sin to become servants to God" is a quote from "Romans 6:22" means that you use to serve sin, but no longer. Rather you are free from serving sin as your way of life, and become servants to God.
Romans 6:1-7 (WEB) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection; 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be in bondage to sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
Romans 6:19-22 (WEB) 19 For as you presented your members as servants to uncleanness and to wickedness upon wickedness, even so now present your members as servants to righteousness for sanctification. 20 For when you were servants of sin, you were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become servants of God, you have your fruit of sanctification and the result of eternal life.
You're only looking at one part of the truth and ignoring the rest. If what you are saying in general about these things is true then why do we need to have our feet washed even after having the bath, and why did Jesus say to Peter if he didn't allow Him to wash his feet he would have no part with Him? Clearly there is still some periodic washing that we need after coming to faith due to sin and iniquity that may rise up from time to time after being born again.
God is not a technocrat and we are no longer under the Law, so yes He may longsuffer shortcomings and sins done out of ignorance or inadvertently or due to immaturity etc, but if we know of anything against us we need to bring it under the blood by acknowledging and repenting of our sin...so that it may be cleansed/forgiven. We don't become puppets or robots after coming to Christ, we have a part in our living relationship with the Living God, in our willingness to ask for and receive forgiveness...it doesn't get forced on us. Our relationship with the Lord, like marriage, requires ongoing maintenance or could lead to separation or ultimately divorce.
And if anyone keeps on sinning deliberately and knowingly after coming to faith we certainly would be in danger of falling away as scripture teaches...there is no more sacrifice for sins for continual wilful sins which would indicate an unrepentant heart....maybe the rocky soil spoken of in the parable of the sower, and sin can harden the heart and sear the conscience even if it didn't start out hardened. This is what the BIBLE teaches...we always need to look at the WHOLE counsel of God not just one facet of the truth....God's wisdom is "manifold" not one-dimensional. It's kind of ironic how you seem to be looking at salvation entirely from a legalistic/technical point of view and not as a living thing. And looking at God as a kind of law-book rather than a judge - a living being who may be appealed to and who judges righteously taking everything into account (which could work either in someone's favour or against them).
Don’t you believe in predestination, @Behold ?
9 Bible Verses about Predestined People
‹›
Most Relevant Verses
">Romans 8:29-30For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Verse page
"">Ephesians 1:5
Verse Concepts
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
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" >Ephesians 1:11
Verse Concepts
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
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>Acts 13:48
Verse Concepts
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
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";">2 Thessalonians 2:13
Verse Concepts
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
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Here is what eternally disqualifies you from going to Heaven.
John 3:36
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
"""He who believes and trusts in the Son and accepts Him [as Savior] has eternal life [that is, already possesses it]; but he who does not believe the Son and chooses to reject Him, [disobeying Him and denying Him as Savior] will not see [eternal] life, but [instead] the wrath of God hangs over him eternally"".
Hello Behold,
This is a subject that stops me in my tracks: 2 Peter 1:9
"9 But whoever lacks these traits is nearsighted to the point of blindness, having forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins."
How can you reconcile this verse with "past AND future sins were forgiven.
1 John 2:1
"[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
Just curious about this.
Thanks!
The reason you dont serve it, (if you are born again) is because the New Creation in Christ has no sin.
The old man of sin is dead "crucified with Christ".
What has happened to the sin of the Born again?
"God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"
"Jesus is the one time ETERNAL sacrifice for sin"
2 Corinthians 5:19 says that God does not charge sin to the born again.
Why not?
Because the born again are "in Christ". "one with God" and there is no sin found there.
Because you read it like this..
Your sin is in the Past.....
Your sin is "the old man of sin, that is Crucified with Christ". Its "dead".
You sin ended when you were born again, and "God hath made Jesus to be sin for Us".
The Christian is the born again Spirit, not the body or the mind.
Your body is dead because of sin, and you'll get a new one that is created for the born again spirit that is SINLESS.
So, the 'new Creation in Christ" that is joined to God and Christ, has no sin, and is made free from sin..
Thats the eternal purpose of the Cross, Nancy.
And a person says....Well, what if i think about killing my mother and i want to do it., or maybe i want to rob a bank"....
That is your MIND< that is not your born again Spirit.
Your MIND has no bearing on who you have become as BORN AGAIN..
Where believers have an issue with "Made free from sin", is that they dont see themselves as God sees them.
They dont realize that their body and their mind is not "born again", and that is where you THINK about things and feel ,...and because you think about things, you believe that this is who you are...
But that is not Spiritual Reality.
That is just your mind., and nothing else.
Spiritual Reality is the ONLY Reality that God is dealing with.. and that is us as a BORN AGAIN Spirit...that is 'in Christ" and "one With God"., right now and forever.
That is how you have to THINK, or your mind is not like GOD's mind, at all.
See, There is no sin found In Christ or in God and the Born again are IN THEM.... = Spiritually, and this is the Son/Daughter of God.
The carnal Christian sees themselves as "how i THINK i am"....but God sees them only a "born again" "new Creation" In Christ"... "made Righteous".
God only sees you as How the Blood and Death of Christ has cleansed you sin, forever.... and then the Holy Spirit birthed your Spirit, into God's SPIRIT,'
See that? That is the Born AGAIN "Son-Daughter" of God.
That is God's mind, and when you dont have that mind, then your mind is carnal and "thinks" wrong about who you are "in Christ"
This is wrong believing, and that is broken faith.
So, the issue isn't sin.
The issue is...... seeing yourself as God has recreated you to be, "in Christ"....... or not.
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