Do we even have the correct definition of "saved?"

[Taken]

No one drank Jesus’ blood that day, Although I guess you are saying that you would have, right

They ate of Jesus' same bread, and drank from Jesus' same cup.

They willingly made themselves subject to the same "indignation" as Was given to Jesus.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Um, anyone FOLLOWING and hearing the teachings of OF Jesus, can be called by others and call themselves Christians...
It doesn't mean they "ARE" Converted.

FOLLOWING and Hearing is one thing...
CONVERSION is another thing.

And all true Christians ARE born again, converted believers.

You're not a "Christian" just because you call yourself one.
You must be born again of water and the Spirit (John 3:5, Acts 2:380-39).

 

[BreadOfLife]

How many fingers am I holding up? What day is it? Who's the current President?
Do you need assistance?
Glass of water?

TRANSLATION:
"I falsely accused you of something - and now I've backed myself into a corner again."

That's what I thought . . .

 

[Taken]

ha, ok Taken, how can you be so sure, bl? Still havent bothered with the naive dealy huh?
No offense bro, i care for you, but wadr you demonstrate that you are still not even in a place to be talked to, only talked at? Bc surely it is apparent that if i go find one, single thing that he was not correct in up there, you are nullified, entirely and for all time, unless you admit to the mistake and recant?

It is not a SECRET...which MEMBERS on this forum testify of their beliefs from their Heart...and which MEMBERS on this forum testify of their beliefs from their Carnal Mind.

Anyone can use their mind to logically conclude their meaning of Scripture...however The Lord Gods Understanding, is Reserved for those IN Christ.

So two discussing Scripture...will often find themselves at odds...because the source of their Understanding is not the same.

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL - it requires lotta words, when it is Obvious, the disagreement is between people who adhere to different Doctrines!
Not a big secret...as I have declared I adhere to Jesus' Doctrine and you have declared you adhere to Catholic Doctrine.
Guess it blew past your understanding ...
1) Acts 2:4 the Disciples of Jesus became Converted.
2) Acts 11:26 the CONVERTED disciples were being called Christians.
And today anyone who is FOLLOWING some part of Jesus' Word, often calls themselves Christian, whether they are Converted or not.
Jesus' teaching expressly teaches the Converted, become Converted, by their own willingness, and His Power.
"Anyone" (Not Converted) can Sin Against God.
"Anyone" (Converted) can NOT Sin Against God...
Really doesn't matter what they call themselves...Christian , Protestant, Jew, Gentile, Catholic, American, Male, Female...
If they ARE Converted...they can Sin NO More!
It is plane scriptural Teaching, that time and time again you have rejected...
1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Perhaps your Catholic teaching overlooked teaching you, Converted people, become sons of God...and are FREED from sin.

And once again - only by cherry-picking 1 John 3:9 does your point make any sense.
HOWEVER, when you read it in context with the rest of Scripture - your argument falls flat on its face.

I realize that "context" is a dirty word to you because it doesn't allow you to invent your own doctrines based on Scripture.

As I have schooled you many, MANY times now - the New Testament is FULL of warnings for truly converted, born again believers to NOT fall back into a life of willful sin or they will LOSE their security . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[Taken]

And all true Christians ARE born again, converted believers.

You're not a "Christian" just because you call yourself one.
You must be born again of water and the Spirit (John 3:5, Acts 2:380-39).

LOL - now you are going to Dictate what people can call Themselves?

True Christian and what? Fake Christians ?
LOL

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL - now you are going to Dictate what people can call Themselves?
True Christian and what? Fake Christians ?
LOL

Would you call a Swedish person "Chinese" just because HE says he is??
Do you call a man a "woman" simply because HE claims he is??
Then YOU are as perverted and clueless as this society has become.

A "Christian", by definition is a person who has been born again of WATER and SPIRIT - as Jesus prescribed (John 3:5).
Without that - they cannot be Christian.

 

[Taken]

And once again - only by cherry-picking 1 John 3:9

LOL where ya been...snoozing?
Umpteen Scriptures have been quoted, verifying The Who, What, When, Why and How...a person BECOMES MADE, "Born of God"..
And when the Verification in Scripture is given you pertaining TO a person Born of God....you whine claiming that is cherry-picking.

LOL...you are full of excuses...
If you get a step by step Revealing of Scripture that leads into being born of God and Free from Sin...
You go off on a tizzy of claiming it is a rant...
If you get a single Scripture...
You claim it's cherry-picking.

Dude it is not a Secret, your MO is the exact same in every Post...
*) peddling YOUR Catholic Doctrine
*) argue against The Lords Doctrine
*) attempt to legitimize your rejection, by personal attacks
*) announce YOU are the teacher
*) make claims for other people, then disagree with the claim (LOL)
*) deflect to other topics
*) repeat your MO

does your point make any sense.

Ya, ya...already know, you rely on your Carnal Mind to try and make Sense of Spiritual things!

HOWEVER, when you read it in context with the rest of Scripture - your argument falls flat on its face.

LOL - it's not an argument. It's a Scriptural Fact...obviously you have many times rejected the Scriptural Fact in 1 John 3:9.

I realize that "context" is a dirty word to you because it doesn't allow you to invent your own doctrines based on Scripture.

Your deflection, noted.
Your personal attack, noted

As I have schooled you many, MANY times

Your ad nauseam repetitious self imposed Teacher status noted.

Topic: try to stay on point.

1 John 3:9
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Context of WHO is noted.
***whosoever
The Context of WHAT is noted.
***born of God/ does not commit sin/cannot sin
The Context of WHEN is noted.
*** is
The Context of WHY is noted.
*** For Gods Seed remains in the WHO
*** Because the WHO "IS" born of God

So What "CONTEXT" are you alleging is not sufficient?

You "Teach"... after you rewrite the scripture that it (1 John 3:9) means...you don't "willfully" sin.

You "Teach" , (1John 3:9) doesn't "really" mean you don't or can't sin...isn't that your Teaching?

Try to stick to the point...

Answer the questions.

 

[Taken]

Would you call a Swedish person "Chinese" just because HE says he is??
Do you call a man a "woman" simply because HE claims he is??
Then YOU are as perverted and clueless as this society has become.

Call a person what they want to be called?

Sure...I Full well know you are Not
"the Bread of Life"...but out of your own "perversion" (as you Just said)...that is how you are addressed.

If you think I am perverted by calling you what you chose to be called.... I can think of another name to call you...!

Or like most of what you say...it can pass on by like a stinky smell.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

A "Christian", by definition is a person who has been born again of WATER and SPIRIT - as Jesus prescribed (John 3:5).
Without that - they cannot be Christian.

A Converted person is: according to Scripture...
Forgiven,
Crucified body
Restored soul
Quickened spirit

Whether or not they are called Christian: according to men.



Again...you call yourselves whatever you want...but who are you to dictate what others can themselves?

John 6:
[35] And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

 

[ScottA]

TRANSLATION:
"I falsely accused you of something - and now I've backed myself into a corner again."

That's what I thought . . .

You are not qualified to translate (your typical accusational backlash when you have been caught in error).

Anyone who can read already knows that about you. In the immortal words of Bob Dylan, you're just here like the atheists, "trying to hide what they don't know to begin with."

Until next time.

 

[amadeus]

@Brakelite2

Do I need an education on this? I have heard a lot of people speak of a second coming, but I have seen something which has raised real questions in me. Jesus came in the womb of Mary as a child of flesh at Bethlehem. That was certainly His first coming, was it not when He came for everyone?

Then for me, in 1976, he came a second time entering my heart. Maybe there will be a more general coming of the Lord as people preach and teach but what will it matter to me if He stays in me and I stay in Him from here on out?​

You are correct in all those things, but they don't address the promises of life after the Resurrection at the second coming.
KJV John 5
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

I was dead indeed, immersed in the things of a world of the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, but for me in 1976 the hour arrived, for me a second coming. I heard His voice and then I was resurrected, that is, brought to Life in a new birth. That is what a resurrection is, is it not?

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

And has not the Son also then given to me Life in myself?

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And has not my hour already come to hear His voice from the grave where I was in the death which had been mine since being born to my natural [carnal] mother? Have not others also heard His voice from their graves, their own places of death, and come into the Life which Jesus brought in abundance?

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Perhaps we can say this is after Jesus opened the Way, the Door to Life, but He did already do that, did He not? Why is anyone waiting for yet a 3rd coming if they have already received Him personally in a 2nd coming?

KJV John 6
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And is not the last day, the last day in our flesh alone, the day we passed from death to Life? Consider what Jesus says here:

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26

From the moment I began to believe in Him was not the promise then mine, that I would never die? Not in some future moment, but now when I first really believe on Him! Is that not a 2nd coming for each of us? Is that not our resurrection? If not, why not?

 

[Taken]

You are not qualified to translate (your typical accusational backlash when you have been caught in error).

Anyone who can read already knows that about you. In the immortal words of Bob Dylan, you're just here like the atheists, "trying to hide what they don't know to begin with."

Until next time.

Yup

 

[ScottA]

@Brakelite2

Do I need an education on this? I have heard a lot of people speak of a second coming, but I have seen something which has raised real questions in me. Jesus came in the womb of Mary as a child of flesh at Bethlehem. That was certainly His first coming, was it not when He came for everyone?

Then for me, in 1976, he came a second time entering my heart. Maybe there will be a more general coming of the Lord as people preach and teach but what will it matter to me if He stays in me and I stay in Him from here on out?​

I was dead indeed, immersed in the things of a world of the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, but for me in 1976 the hour arrived, for me a second coming. I heard His voice and then I was resurrected, that is, brought to Life in a new birth. That is what a resurrection is, is it not?


And has not the Son also then given to me Life in myself?


And has not my hour already come to hear His voice from the grave where I was in the death which had been mine since being born to my natural [carnal] mother? Have not others also heard His voice from their graves, their own places of death, and come into the Life which Jesus brought in abundance?


Perhaps we can say this is after Jesus opened the Way, the Door to Life, but He did already do that, did He not? Why is anyone waiting for yet a 3rd coming if they have already received Him personally in a 2nd coming?



And is not the last day, the last day in our flesh alone, the day we passed from death to Life? Consider what Jesus says here:

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26

From the moment I began to believe in Him was not the promise then mine, that I would never die? Not in some future moment, but now when I first really believe on Him! Is that not a 2nd coming for each of us? Is that not our resurrection? If not, why not?

This is true...as it is written: "each in his own order."

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL where ya been...snoozing?
Umpteen Scriptures have been quoted, verifying The Who, What, When, Why and How...a person BECOMES MADE, "Born of God"..
And when the Verification in Scripture is given you pertaining TO a person Born of God....you whine claiming that is cherry-picking.

LOL...you are full of excuses...
If you get a step by step Revealing of Scripture that leads into being born of God and Free from Sin...
You go off on a tizzy of claiming it is a rant...
If you get a single Scripture...
You claim it's cherry-picking.

Dude it is not a Secret, your MO is the exact same in every Post...
*) peddling YOUR Catholic Doctrine
*) argue against The Lords Doctrine
*) attempt to legitimize your rejection, by personal attacks
*) announce YOU are the teacher
*) make claims for other people, then disagree with the claim (LOL)
*) deflect to other topics
*) repeat your MO

Ya, ya...already know, you rely on your Carnal Mind to try and make Sense of Spiritual things!
LOL - it's not an argument. It's a Scriptural Fact...obviously you have many times rejected the Scriptural Fact in 1 John 3:9.
Your deflection, noted.
Your personal attack, noted
Your ad nauseam repetitious self imposed Teacher status noted.
Topic: try to stay on point.

1 John 3:9
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Context of WHO is noted.
***whosoever
The Context of WHAT is noted.
***born of God/ does not commit sin/cannot sin
The Context of WHEN is noted.
*** is
The Context of WHY is noted.
*** For Gods Seed remains in the WHO
*** Because the WHO "IS" born of God
So What "CONTEXT" are you alleging is not sufficient?

You "Teach"... after you rewrite the scripture that it (1 John 3:9) means...you don't "willfully" sin.
You "Teach" , (1John 3:9) doesn't "really" mean you don't or can't sin...isn't that your Teaching?
Try to stick to the point...
Answer the questions.

I teach and I teach - but you never learn.
You can never make Scripture say what you want because there is too much corresponding Scripture that destroys your point.

THAT'S what I mean by "context" of Scripture. 1 John 3:9 on its own says ONE thing - but in light of the rest of Scripture, it is talking about going back to a LIFE of willful sin - not stumbling once in a while.

You'll never get it because you don't understand CONTEXT . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

A Converted person is: according to Scripture...
Forgiven,
Crucified body
Restored soul
Quickened spirit

Whether or not they are called Christian: according to men.

Again...you call yourselves whatever you want...but who are you to dictate what others can themselves?
John 6:
[35] And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

A restored soul and quickened spirit happens at BAPTISM (John 4:5, Acts 2:38).

As for anybody calling themselves a "Christian" - they are ONLY Christians if they have been Baptized in Christ.
Like I schooled you on my last post - a Swedish man cannot claim to be Chinese if he's not - nor can a man claim to be a woman.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are not qualified to translate

I calls'em as I sees'em - and in this case I saw more of your fraudulence . . .

 

[Brakelite]

This is true...as it is written: "each in his own order."

While you, @bbyrd009 and @amadeus may focus on this life, in in one sense it is most crucial to do so for it we do not accept the life and character of Christ now, we will have no life or character to take with us into the next. Now bbyrd often speaks of the"death more abundantly' as something not to be hoped for, yet I suggest that the life to be looked forward to which is Eternal in the heavens and in the new Earth is the very one that offers us the greatest hope, and the one the world, which is groaning in travail under the corporate weight of sin and death, needs.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death....
KJV 1 Corinthians 15
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 

[bbyrd009]

While you, @bbyrd009 and @amadeus may focus on this life, in in one sense it is most crucial to do so for it we do not accept the life and character of Christ now, we will have no life or character to take with us into the next. Now bbyrd often speaks of the"death more abundantly' as something not to be hoped for, yet I suggest that the life to be looked forward to which is Eternal in the heavens and in the new Earth is the very one that offers us the greatest hope, and the one the world, which is groaning in travail under the corporate weight of sin and death, needs.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death....
KJV 1 Corinthians 15
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

only you are not contemplating how your ego is still active in the very desire, and so literalize passages meant to be taken spiritually and etc; there is a perfectly legit symbolism for each of the terms up there that align much better with the vv you do not quote, of which you are already aware, yes?
You cant simply omit them from your lexicon imo

 

[ScottA]

While you, @bbyrd009 and @amadeus may focus on this life, in in one sense it is most crucial to do so for it we do not accept the life and character of Christ now, we will have no life or character to take with us into the next. Now bbyrd often speaks of the"death more abundantly' as something not to be hoped for, yet I suggest that the life to be looked forward to which is Eternal in the heavens and in the new Earth is the very one that offers us the greatest hope, and the one the world, which is groaning in travail under the corporate weight of sin and death, needs.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death....
KJV 1 Corinthians 15
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

I agree.

In this life, if we are in Him and Him in us "to live is Christ and to die is gain."

But what I believe Amadeus was referring to, is that the promise of eternal life can and does begin for many in this life before the death of the flesh ("each in his owe order"). It begins when He comes "in to him and dines with him, and he with Him." Which is not His first coming, but His second, in accordance with Hebrews 9:28.

And, yes, what the world does not know, is that without Christ, life in the flesh and in this world is not life, but death.